Bioware often has a friends and family beta first .... nobody complains about favoratism there
It's up to the company who gets to test ( test, not play) their game ... nobody is entitled to play in the closed beta, not even entitled to have an opinion about it.
I think there is a problem with the community. Closed Betas are for testing, not playing. It shouldnt matter how many of your guild got in to a test, you shouldnt care about getting your mates in, you should be trying like hell to break the shit out of the game and report everything you find. Open beta is for playing, and stressing servers, then you get your guild in, and hopefully you had a few in closed beta to show the ropes.
I think some of the community sees Betas as an early release of the game to learn the ins and outs and find the best loot/mobs/quests, its not aobut that, its about making the game playayble for everyone else, finding problems, and being brutally honest with the problems you do find. If a guild got all its members in when the company said it was to be a random draw, that is dodgy, but the apps for Closed Beta should be about testing.
I played Fallen Earth Beta, I did my hardest to break that game at every oppotrunity, and had great delight in finding a broken part, and making a report with as many details as I could so as to help the dev team fix the issue without having to send mail back and forth asking followup questions. I liked testing that, however I got disheartened when I heard the release date, and rather than do what I should have, was push through and break every godamn thing I could find, I retreated and spurned what I thought to be a poor business decision of early release. I punked out, clocked out, and gave up my duty as a beta tester.
In my opinion, there needs to be an online community of gamers willing to dedicate their time to testing in a volunteer basis, that have a code of conduct that follows any NDA, and seasoned testers with good ties to gaming companies that the companies can go to and ask for assistance in testing purposes. Impartial, honest, and dedicated to testing and breaking and reporting any and all problems and concerns. At least then, if there is one guild taht gets preferential treatment, you know that the guild is going to actively test and break a game to its core.
I dunno, Beta Tests seem to be treated like the new Live headstart.
This story would only be interesting if sexual favors, drugs or criminal activity were used to influence clan selection. But, dudes being chummy is just boring. I do not see it as corrupt what they did. If the game is good it will get subscribers, no one will care once beta ends. This so-called scandal is probably good for publicity. too.
Some guild members linked me to this thread so I thought I'd clarify on a few points here...
The main issue is that when asked, the GMs said that everybody would have equal chance getting into closed beta phase 1. It was going to be a random draw, when approached about getting access they were told they couldn't do such a thing.
Later down the line some people got wind of this and even took it to the GMs, who brushed it off saying it must be the guild leader lying.
Now we're here, and possibly 1/3 of the CB1 participants are from a certain guild because the guild leader has "The hook up" with the public relations manager for the game. I for one completely understand giving a couple of friends of the staff members access to the closed beta, but a whole guild? And as the public relation manager that reflects so poorly on their ethics as a company.
The main concern now is this obvious favouritism, is it going to spread and manifest itself in other ways? Will this guild be given advanced access to new cash shop items? What happens when members from their guild think XYZ guild are PKing them too much? Will their influence on PWE staff sway the decision process in who should be banned and who should not?
Their game, they can invite who they want by lying to the community about it to save face isn't acceptable.
Again, all I see here is concerns about the perceived advantage one group may get over another in a video game. Seriously, is this something to get this worked up about?
It isn't for me. You don't like their practices, don't play their game. Its F2P after all, so they're not even taking your money.
Play someone else's game that isn't being unfair would be my take on it, but hey, I live in a rational world.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We were told by PWE that the phase one selection was "Completely Random."
Yet the evidence we have seen so far points to otherwise, meaning the company, if the accusations are true, has lied to their player base.
You call it lying, they call it changing their mind due to practical reasons.
Frankly having your closed beta testers be chosen 'completely random' seems like a very stupid idea and something a marketing shmuck came up with. The fact that they are in fact not choosing them randomly would personally make me feel like maybe they know they are actually doing.
Again, all I see here is concerns about the perceived advantage one group may get over another in a video game. Seriously, is this something to get this worked up about?
It isn't for me. You don't like their practices, don't play their game. Its F2P after all, so they're not even taking your money.
Play someone else's game that isn't being unfair would be my take on it, but hey, I live in a rational world.
You don't see what happens there? Again I've said it's their game they can do what they want. But then when the issue isn't addressed people are faced with either moving on or leaving the game. If it isn't addressed, sure the numbers won't be huge but there will be people who leave over it.
Regardless of what happens, I'll still be playing the game but the attitude of "Players should suck it up or leave" is bad for any business model.
Are you kidding me? It's a BETA test. It's the companies product and they aren't even charging people for it. They can let in who they want to let in. The game industry has been giving special treatment to their friends for YEARS. Big farking deal. Get over it. move on.
Go whine about something else. If you think something like this hurts their credibility you have bats in the belfry!
I mean come on it is closed beta testing, they can invite whoever they want. A known group is always better then a bunch of individuals who are mainly there to get ahead of others in knowledge of the game rather than finding bugs.
On top of that it is a f2p game from PW, which means expensive item shop, huge grind for the latter half of leveling, no end game to speak of, etc. etc, etc,
When the game comes out and you enjoy something like this, have at it, but these games are never in beta long, they are being played elsewhere in an eastern language now so the only bugs will be mostly translation ones.
Again, all I see here is concerns about the perceived advantage one group may get over another in a video game. Seriously, is this something to get this worked up about?
It isn't for me. You don't like their practices, don't play their game. Its F2P after all, so they're not even taking your money.
Play someone else's game that isn't being unfair would be my take on it, but hey, I live in a rational world.
You don't see what happens there? Again I've said it's their game they can do what they want. But then when the issue isn't addressed people are faced with either moving on or leaving the game. If it isn't addressed, sure the numbers won't be huge but there will be people who leave over it.
Regardless of what happens, I'll still be playing the game but the attitude of "Players should suck it up or leave" is bad for any business model.
I disagree. I think it'll be a good business model for them in the end. The people that are able to see past this will stick around. The .00001% of people that are not able to see past it will leave. They now have a more rational, forgiving playerbase overall. This will lead to attracting new business based on a better overall community.
I know it's silly. But it's equally silly to think that this incident is going to affect their business model. I mean, what's more silly - that they did this or the title of this thread?
Yeah it is a great business model. Its their business, so they can do whatever they want. If they say its random, but still let people in, based on favoritism, then its ok. Its ok if they give them free items too, and ban people their favorites don't like, its also ok if they get discounts on the item shop, and secret information regarding upcoming expansion.
All of these are ok under your slippery slope of business ethics. Remember guys, its just a little favoritism in CB, theres no reason for them to do it again in OB right?
Jeez, it's a Perfect World pay-to-win title, if you can't handle the fact that there are haves and have-nots among the playerbase, you're not going to enjoy the game anyway.
Yeah it is a great business model. Its their business, so they can do whatever they want. If they say its random, but still let people in, based on favoritism, then its ok. Its ok if they give them free items too, and ban people their favorites don't like, its also ok if they get discounts on the item shop, and secret information regarding upcoming expansion.
All of these are ok under your slippery slope of business ethics. Remember guys, its just a little favoritism in CB, theres no reason for them to do it again in OB right?
Yup, all of the situations you bring up are ok. Because they are still developing the game and it is in...
CLOSED BETA
If they give them free items, it is so that they can test them. If they ban someone, it's because they weren't helping them as much as they would like.
They won't be charging for in game items because its...
CLOSED BETA
It's ok if they get secret information. That is what an NDA is for.
"theres no reason for them to do it again in OB right?"
I am not sure why people are getting their panties in such a bunch on this one. It is common practice for entire guilds to be brought into the beta phase of a game. A lot of AAA games practice this as well. If I remember correctly I have even seen "guild only" beta phases so that end game/grouping content could be tested.
When you have a group of people who are used to playing together through other games they are able to progress through the content in the beta at the same time/fast pace. This allows for numerous points of view looking for bugs/exploits/etc.
Can't see the big deal, only reason the people not chosen are whining isn't because they have a huge alturistic desire to help beta test, they perceive the chosen guild as obtaining an advantage over them in the upcoming new game, and that is entirely the wrong way to look at the reasons behind participating in closed beta testing.
Also, the fear that the favoritism may continue in the actual release product, which is a valid concern. F2P MMO titles have been shown to be vulnerable to this in the past.
Edited in the new official statement from the PWE administrator Crabclaw in the OP. Reactions are growing by the second over there.
It's not just an issue with free to play games either; remember the problem Eve had when it was discovered one of the GMs was giving rare blueprints to a guild?
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I am not sure why people are getting their panties in such a bunch on this one. It is common practice for entire guilds to be brought into the beta phase of a game. A lot of AAA games practice this as well. If I remember correctly I have even seen "guild only" beta phases so that end game/grouping content could be tested.
When you have a group of people who are used to playing together through other games they are able to progress through the content in the beta at the same time/fast pace. This allows for numerous points of view looking for bugs/exploits/etc.
The issue isn't that a whole guild got brought in, which is (as you pointed out) fairly common; the issue is that it appears said guild either paid a dev for admittance or sucked up enough to get the invite. Even if it was the latter, it still is an issue to be concerned about for most gamers; after all, people will be asking themselves if such favortism will continue after launch.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
this would be a moot topic cept pwe admited its what they did. And the big guilds didnt get more then 3 -10 ppl in out of 1-200 yet a guild of 52 got close to 100% in .. and bragged bout it. so please if u dont know what is going on dont post...
edit:ps its only whining if a few people are having issues with it.. when over 100 ppl are then its a problem. so for everyone saying its whining its not.. and its not a "u got in i didnt qq" deal. this was something that DID happen and admited to.
What is preorder but paying to get in first? I never do that myself you are a sucker if you don't wait till the game has some reviews. But so what if someone got to know the devs and got their guild in, if favouritism occurs after launch then you have a genuine complaint.
Never liked PWE, I think there products are over priced. When you have to pay 15 euros for a mount and then have to buy items to upgrade your mount with luck wich cost an other 20 euros just to upgrade your mount thats just to mutch. I played
BOI and I quieted after i spent 200 euros in 1 month of time. I don't blame them for my stupidity but quieting the game is what I did do because I was fed up with it. And then they keep sending there spam emails with "my login name we miss you" at least once a month. I like there games but I think they are corupt and money hungry.
Definitely bad business practice but I would not go so far as to say it is a corruption scandal.
Far as taking a credibility hit I personally don't care. I don't believe I have ever played one of their games or found them interesting in the least. Suppose if I was into their games I might care to an extent. Still doubt I would get too worked up over it though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ok so i keep seeing a responce similar to this "your just but hurt cuz you want to get into the game and play it first, Your not going to acualy test it.... blah blah blah -insert some bs bout the guild being larger/better at testing-"
Heres the problem with this. The guild who got in isnt getting in to actualy test it they got in to ''sit outside the safe area and gank n00bz lul" ganking "n00bz " is not beta testing as for them being a large guild lol you should check their #s, they have no one of any significant beta testing experiance. Also most of them are completely new to MMO games they only joined the guild becuase they were promised to be in CBT phase 1.
The problem isnt that they got in persay its that they promised that all their members would get in (which they did), and when PWE was asked about it they denied it. Then later they tried to say that there was nothing they could do about it to begin with when they were presented with screen shots months in advance (taken from the guilds official website) specificly nameing Jason as giveing them excluseive invites. All the community had wanted was some honesty.
Comments
Bioware often has a friends and family beta first .... nobody complains about favoratism there
It's up to the company who gets to test ( test, not play) their game ... nobody is entitled to play in the closed beta, not even entitled to have an opinion about it.
Much ado about nothing ...
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Its the first phase of closed beta, most of those invited are going to be friends of the staff, this isn't surprising.
Now if favoritism continues after launch, then you have every right to complain, until then, get over it.
I don't think the people here really understand why people are upset on the official forums. Here it is in as simple of matter as I can put it:
We were told by PWE that the phase one selection was "Completely Random."
Yet the evidence we have seen so far points to otherwise, meaning the company, if the accusations are true, has lied to their player base.
Many of us don't care most of a guild got in guarenteed like this, it is the fact that PWE never told us that's how it was going down.
I think there is a problem with the community. Closed Betas are for testing, not playing. It shouldnt matter how many of your guild got in to a test, you shouldnt care about getting your mates in, you should be trying like hell to break the shit out of the game and report everything you find. Open beta is for playing, and stressing servers, then you get your guild in, and hopefully you had a few in closed beta to show the ropes.
I think some of the community sees Betas as an early release of the game to learn the ins and outs and find the best loot/mobs/quests, its not aobut that, its about making the game playayble for everyone else, finding problems, and being brutally honest with the problems you do find. If a guild got all its members in when the company said it was to be a random draw, that is dodgy, but the apps for Closed Beta should be about testing.
I played Fallen Earth Beta, I did my hardest to break that game at every oppotrunity, and had great delight in finding a broken part, and making a report with as many details as I could so as to help the dev team fix the issue without having to send mail back and forth asking followup questions. I liked testing that, however I got disheartened when I heard the release date, and rather than do what I should have, was push through and break every godamn thing I could find, I retreated and spurned what I thought to be a poor business decision of early release. I punked out, clocked out, and gave up my duty as a beta tester.
In my opinion, there needs to be an online community of gamers willing to dedicate their time to testing in a volunteer basis, that have a code of conduct that follows any NDA, and seasoned testers with good ties to gaming companies that the companies can go to and ask for assistance in testing purposes. Impartial, honest, and dedicated to testing and breaking and reporting any and all problems and concerns. At least then, if there is one guild taht gets preferential treatment, you know that the guild is going to actively test and break a game to its core.
I dunno, Beta Tests seem to be treated like the new Live headstart.
This story would only be interesting if sexual favors, drugs or criminal activity were used to influence clan selection. But, dudes being chummy is just boring. I do not see it as corrupt what they did. If the game is good it will get subscribers, no one will care once beta ends. This so-called scandal is probably good for publicity. too.
Again, all I see here is concerns about the perceived advantage one group may get over another in a video game. Seriously, is this something to get this worked up about?
It isn't for me. You don't like their practices, don't play their game. Its F2P after all, so they're not even taking your money.
Play someone else's game that isn't being unfair would be my take on it, but hey, I live in a rational world.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You call it lying, they call it changing their mind due to practical reasons.
Frankly having your closed beta testers be chosen 'completely random' seems like a very stupid idea and something a marketing shmuck came up with. The fact that they are in fact not choosing them randomly would personally make me feel like maybe they know they are actually doing.
You don't see what happens there? Again I've said it's their game they can do what they want. But then when the issue isn't addressed people are faced with either moving on or leaving the game. If it isn't addressed, sure the numbers won't be huge but there will be people who leave over it.
Regardless of what happens, I'll still be playing the game but the attitude of "Players should suck it up or leave" is bad for any business model.
anyone else think its funny that the Admin says on page 4 post 39 that the thread will not be closed or deleted but yet now it is closed..lol
i don't care either way, its done in every MMO. alot even have a "friends and family" phase of testing.
Are you kidding me? It's a BETA test. It's the companies product and they aren't even charging people for it. They can let in who they want to let in. The game industry has been giving special treatment to their friends for YEARS. Big farking deal. Get over it. move on.
Go whine about something else. If you think something like this hurts their credibility you have bats in the belfry!
I mean come on it is closed beta testing, they can invite whoever they want. A known group is always better then a bunch of individuals who are mainly there to get ahead of others in knowledge of the game rather than finding bugs.
On top of that it is a f2p game from PW, which means expensive item shop, huge grind for the latter half of leveling, no end game to speak of, etc. etc, etc,
When the game comes out and you enjoy something like this, have at it, but these games are never in beta long, they are being played elsewhere in an eastern language now so the only bugs will be mostly translation ones.
I disagree. I think it'll be a good business model for them in the end. The people that are able to see past this will stick around. The .00001% of people that are not able to see past it will leave. They now have a more rational, forgiving playerbase overall. This will lead to attracting new business based on a better overall community.
I know it's silly. But it's equally silly to think that this incident is going to affect their business model. I mean, what's more silly - that they did this or the title of this thread?
[NEWS] PWE takes big credibility hit over Forsaken World corruption
Yeah it is a great business model. Its their business, so they can do whatever they want. If they say its random, but still let people in, based on favoritism, then its ok. Its ok if they give them free items too, and ban people their favorites don't like, its also ok if they get discounts on the item shop, and secret information regarding upcoming expansion.
All of these are ok under your slippery slope of business ethics. Remember guys, its just a little favoritism in CB, theres no reason for them to do it again in OB right?
Jeez, it's a Perfect World pay-to-win title, if you can't handle the fact that there are haves and have-nots among the playerbase, you're not going to enjoy the game anyway.
Yup, all of the situations you bring up are ok. Because they are still developing the game and it is in...
CLOSED BETA
If they give them free items, it is so that they can test them. If they ban someone, it's because they weren't helping them as much as they would like.
They won't be charging for in game items because its...
CLOSED BETA
It's ok if they get secret information. That is what an NDA is for.
"theres no reason for them to do it again in OB right?"
It's ok if they do it again because its...
OPEN BETA
Wow, I must really be behind the times.
All this schoolgirl emo-rage over a f2p Korean grinder CB test o_0
Truely sad...
I am not sure why people are getting their panties in such a bunch on this one. It is common practice for entire guilds to be brought into the beta phase of a game. A lot of AAA games practice this as well. If I remember correctly I have even seen "guild only" beta phases so that end game/grouping content could be tested.
When you have a group of people who are used to playing together through other games they are able to progress through the content in the beta at the same time/fast pace. This allows for numerous points of view looking for bugs/exploits/etc.
It's not just an issue with free to play games either; remember the problem Eve had when it was discovered one of the GMs was giving rare blueprints to a guild?
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
The issue isn't that a whole guild got brought in, which is (as you pointed out) fairly common; the issue is that it appears said guild either paid a dev for admittance or sucked up enough to get the invite. Even if it was the latter, it still is an issue to be concerned about for most gamers; after all, people will be asking themselves if such favortism will continue after launch.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
this would be a moot topic cept pwe admited its what they did. And the big guilds didnt get more then 3 -10 ppl in out of 1-200 yet a guild of 52 got close to 100% in .. and bragged bout it. so please if u dont know what is going on dont post...
edit:ps its only whining if a few people are having issues with it.. when over 100 ppl are then its a problem. so for everyone saying its whining its not.. and its not a "u got in i didnt qq" deal. this was something that DID happen and admited to.
What is preorder but paying to get in first? I never do that myself you are a sucker if you don't wait till the game has some reviews. But so what if someone got to know the devs and got their guild in, if favouritism occurs after launch then you have a genuine complaint.
Never liked PWE, I think there products are over priced. When you have to pay 15 euros for a mount and then have to buy items to upgrade your mount with luck wich cost an other 20 euros just to upgrade your mount thats just to mutch. I played
BOI and I quieted after i spent 200 euros in 1 month of time. I don't blame them for my stupidity but quieting the game is what I did do because I was fed up with it. And then they keep sending there spam emails with "my login name we miss you" at least once a month. I like there games but I think they are corupt and money hungry.
Definitely bad business practice but I would not go so far as to say it is a corruption scandal.
Far as taking a credibility hit I personally don't care. I don't believe I have ever played one of their games or found them interesting in the least. Suppose if I was into their games I might care to an extent. Still doubt I would get too worked up over it though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ok so i keep seeing a responce similar to this "your just but hurt cuz you want to get into the game and play it first, Your not going to acualy test it.... blah blah blah -insert some bs bout the guild being larger/better at testing-"
Heres the problem with this. The guild who got in isnt getting in to actualy test it they got in to ''sit outside the safe area and gank n00bz lul" ganking "n00bz " is not beta testing as for them being a large guild lol you should check their #s, they have no one of any significant beta testing experiance. Also most of them are completely new to MMO games they only joined the guild becuase they were promised to be in CBT phase 1.
The problem isnt that they got in persay its that they promised that all their members would get in (which they did), and when PWE was asked about it they denied it. Then later they tried to say that there was nothing they could do about it to begin with when they were presented with screen shots months in advance (taken from the guilds official website) specificly nameing Jason as giveing them excluseive invites. All the community had wanted was some honesty.