Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by MAnalog
Originally posted by Axehilt Shadow Warrior (WAR) is definitely up there, with Marauders (WAR) cementing my opinion that WAR had terrible class/combat/CC design and balancing.
With so many people commenting on these two classes, I'm going to go make one of each to see personally since I never tried them yet. Are they bad from the get go? Or does it take 20 or so levels to see the terribleness? When I played SWs were kinda useless early on in leveling, then got their AOE tactic and were 80% as cool as BWs (which is a terrible inefficiency; as a same-skill BW I'd do 25% more damage!) then they slowly shifted towards uselessness again as levels dragged on. Marauders really didn't have much going for them, and didn't get a critical utility spell til max level. Which sucks since I liked the lore/look of em.
Ya, I'm seeing a bit of it. I've gotten my Marauder to lvl 10 and hated every second of it. It'll take a lot for me to level this thing to cap. The SW seems fun to play though maybe that was because I was playing my Marauder and the contrast was overwhelming not to be playing the Marauder.
On topic though. Worst class for me is the Puma Burglar in Progress Quest.
Pretty much the worst class I have ever played in any mmo is the priestly class. Far too fragile for being the core of the groups healing. D&D did it right, heavy armor, mace/hammer wielding foe of all that is evil and corrupt. Turning skeletons into dust with a glance and making demons scream in fear on the trip back to the underworld. A Templar based priest, not this psuedo mage with none of hte offence and a pretty pathetic defense.
Vanguard has Clerics like that. Pretty much second best defense in the game, after the real tanks. Well, some Monk subspecs where maybe better.
However, compared to the other three healer classes, Clerics are pretty boring.
Shaman gets an insane amount of buffs and debuffs - in groups, I often didnt managed to put on every debuff on a mob before it died lol.
Blood Mage did insane damage and had a lot of really interesting tricks.
Disciple was the king of soloing. Nearly unkillable, and even if they are in trouble, they still had a fake death ability as well.
And Cleric had a real mana problem, unlike the other three healer classes. Massive shorttime heals - the Cleric would shine. But longtime healing on a Cleric - OUCH.
Bottom line is really: Vanguard killed other MMO healers for me LOL.
Ya, I'm seeing a bit of it. I've gotten my Marauder to lvl 10 and hated every second of it. It'll take a lot for me to level this thing to cap. The SW seems fun to play though maybe that was because I was playing my Marauder and the contrast was overwhelming not to be playing the Marauder.
On topic though. Worst class for me is the Puma Burglar in Progress Quest.
Yeah SW from a fun perspective were alright (well...as far as WAR's classes go anyway.) It's was their limited actual effectiveness that was most disappointing. Being able to deal 90% of their DPS at range while moving was certainly a strongpoint (and the only reason that -- paired with aforementioned AOE tactic -- they were ever able to amount to anything.) Ranged DPS while moving is a strong feature for any class (as evidenced by WOW's Warlocks, who were the longest-running imbalanced playstyle I've ever seen in a game, largely due to dealing so much of their potential DPS while moving.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Warrior in Everquest, the worst P.O.S. ever in a poorly designed game. Except for the kunark expansion the babies playing Knights got Warrior nerfed to hell and back.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Ranged DPS while moving is a strong feature for any class (as evidenced by WOW's Warlocks, who were the longest-running imbalanced playstyle I've ever seen in a game, largely due to dealing so much of their potential DPS while moving.)
You say moving, I say running, as in for your life.
Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
Nearly every class has a distance closer via charge, sprint, snares and other ranged classes have greater range.
Not to mention only two dots are insta cast on the run and many classes can remove the dots.
Warlocks can be amazing but there playstyle imo is clunky and always has been (to some degree or another).
Ranged DPS while moving is a strong feature for any class (as evidenced by WOW's Warlocks, who were the longest-running imbalanced playstyle I've ever seen in a game, largely due to dealing so much of their potential DPS while moving.)
You say moving, I say running, as in for your life.
Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
Nearly every class has a distance closer via charge, sprint, snares and other ranged classes have greater range.
Not to mention only two dots are insta cast on the run and many classes can remove the dots.
Warlocks can be amazing but there playstyle imo is clunky and always has been (to some degree or another).
Well during the period where they were broken (which is now over, I should mention) we were talking about 30 yard spells vs. 20 yard distance-closers. Similarly, being able to insta-cast your two DoTs while moving out of the range of that longer-range ranged DPS still gives you a large advantage (particularly when you were able to spread life leach around)
Nowadays things are much different (at the very least, rogues getting CoS really started wrecking them.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It is funny how many of the classes that have been listed here would make my favorite class lists. However, in looking back at the various games I have played over the years - with so many classes that may have been meh and to pick out a single one, I would have to go with: DDO Wizard.
When did you play. That is the question. Beta and post bet for two years they were forrible to play even at higher levels. I totally agree with your pain if thats what your basing it on.
I have to tell you they've made it easier to be a caster. Infact they finally fixed Palemaster so you can heal with death aura and they added Archmage Pre. If you haven't played in the last 5 months give it another go.
Worst class I ever played was a thief on Legends of Kesmai.
Worst "class-ish" thing to start as was magery on UO. Regs suck. :P
The Thief was awesome! In the original game anyway.. Not so much in the remake.
Mine would be DAoC Paladin.. Twisting Chants was a painful experience ( literally ) - Early WoW Paladin.. Combat based off of chance just wasnt a good idea especially considering the beta Paladin was probably the best setup I had ever seen for the class in any game - Captain in LoTRO.. This is mainly because of the combat system in the game.. Instead of abilites firing when you use them there is a delay and sometimes a delay until after the next autoattack.. Terrible combat system in that game.
World of Warcraft - Shaman (1-50th leve) I hated it, I hated it, I hated it.. Always running out of mana, had a hard time dealing with adds, it wasn't solo friendly whatsoever.. I had 6 x 80's and that was one class I strugled to get to 30.. It just wasn't enjoyable, it almost felt like a grind..
Since you say you had 6 level 80's, i'm assuming your shaman experience is recent, which utterly confuses me. I stopped playing WoW back in early march, shortly after shaman became my 7th level 80 class. Now I know virtually every class in WoW can rapidly slay massive waves of mobs, but shaman took it to a whole new level, and it was able to do so at an early level than any class in the game. I think it's level 24 or 26 when shaman learns Fire Nova. Talented (specced elemental of course) and glyphed, you reduce it's cooldown to 3 seconds (aka spammable every other spell). With BOA trinkets (4% max mana back after killing something), you can AoE down 5-8 mobs in a matter of 9 seconds, and refund 20-32% of your mana. It only gets easier with chain lighting, and easier still with thunderstorm.
While most of the "worst class" debate is opinion oriented, which I can respect, I just had to point out that you must have been doing something wrong to gripe about shaman leveling being slow. I know many veteran shamans used to preach enhancement leveling on the official forums since that used to be the way to go once upon a time, but they were players who never got to experience the power of modern elemental leveling with BoA gear. Perhaps you followed their advice, because enhance is significantly slower, more taxing on your mana, and more single target oriented.
Comments
Ranger and Bard EQ classic.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Pretty much any class in Everquest 2, especially paladin. Combat and class abilities there are just pathetic.
On the other side, WoW's hunter and Vanguard's disciple are my favourites
I still shudder when I think about the first couple months of EQ playing my warrior on Rallos Zek (this was when the game started).
My #2 would be DAOC's Blademaster
WAR's Witch Hunter felt gimped the higher level I got but I didn't stay with that game long enough to really confirm.
With so many people commenting on these two classes, I'm going to go make one of each to see personally since I never tried them yet.
Are they bad from the get go? Or does it take 20 or so levels to see the terribleness?
When I played SWs were kinda useless early on in leveling, then got their AOE tactic and were 80% as cool as BWs (which is a terrible inefficiency; as a same-skill BW I'd do 25% more damage!) then they slowly shifted towards uselessness again as levels dragged on.
Marauders really didn't have much going for them, and didn't get a critical utility spell til max level. Which sucks since I liked the lore/look of em.
Ya, I'm seeing a bit of it. I've gotten my Marauder to lvl 10 and hated every second of it. It'll take a lot for me to level this thing to cap. The SW seems fun to play though maybe that was because I was playing my Marauder and the contrast was overwhelming not to be playing the Marauder.
On topic though. Worst class for me is the Puma Burglar in Progress Quest.
Armsman in DAoC
Vanguard has Clerics like that. Pretty much second best defense in the game, after the real tanks. Well, some Monk subspecs where maybe better.
However, compared to the other three healer classes, Clerics are pretty boring.
Shaman gets an insane amount of buffs and debuffs - in groups, I often didnt managed to put on every debuff on a mob before it died lol.
Blood Mage did insane damage and had a lot of really interesting tricks.
Disciple was the king of soloing. Nearly unkillable, and even if they are in trouble, they still had a fake death ability as well.
And Cleric had a real mana problem, unlike the other three healer classes. Massive shorttime heals - the Cleric would shine. But longtime healing on a Cleric - OUCH.
Bottom line is really: Vanguard killed other MMO healers for me LOL.
Yeah SW from a fun perspective were alright (well...as far as WAR's classes go anyway.) It's was their limited actual effectiveness that was most disappointing. Being able to deal 90% of their DPS at range while moving was certainly a strongpoint (and the only reason that -- paired with aforementioned AOE tactic -- they were ever able to amount to anything.) Ranged DPS while moving is a strong feature for any class (as evidenced by WOW's Warlocks, who were the longest-running imbalanced playstyle I've ever seen in a game, largely due to dealing so much of their potential DPS while moving.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Warrior in Everquest, the worst P.O.S. ever in a poorly designed game. Except for the kunark expansion the babies playing Knights got Warrior nerfed to hell and back.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
You say moving, I say running, as in for your life.
Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
Nearly every class has a distance closer via charge, sprint, snares and other ranged classes have greater range.
Not to mention only two dots are insta cast on the run and many classes can remove the dots.
Warlocks can be amazing but there playstyle imo is clunky and always has been (to some degree or another).
Well during the period where they were broken (which is now over, I should mention) we were talking about 30 yard spells vs. 20 yard distance-closers. Similarly, being able to insta-cast your two DoTs while moving out of the range of that longer-range ranged DPS still gives you a large advantage (particularly when you were able to spread life leach around)
Nowadays things are much different (at the very least, rogues getting CoS really started wrecking them.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Dragoon in FFXI when your dragon was still your 2 Hour.
If your dragon died (which was common) you were stuck doing about 50% damage for the next 2 hours. They were basically banned from parties.
All priest classes, all spellcaster classes, all melee classes, all ranged classes...did I miss any?
favorite class: The one I make myself, like in Ultima Online and Asheron's Call has a couple examples.
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
My game channel on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/vendayn
AkA -The ultimate cookie cutter that everyone eventually follows.
Yup, same with class based games. Cookie cutter builds in both EQ2 and WoW as just two examples. Your point?
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
My game channel on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/vendayn
The Thief was awesome! In the original game anyway.. Not so much in the remake.
Mine would be DAoC Paladin.. Twisting Chants was a painful experience ( literally ) - Early WoW Paladin.. Combat based off of chance just wasnt a good idea especially considering the beta Paladin was probably the best setup I had ever seen for the class in any game - Captain in LoTRO.. This is mainly because of the combat system in the game.. Instead of abilites firing when you use them there is a delay and sometimes a delay until after the next autoattack.. Terrible combat system in that game.
Since you say you had 6 level 80's, i'm assuming your shaman experience is recent, which utterly confuses me. I stopped playing WoW back in early march, shortly after shaman became my 7th level 80 class. Now I know virtually every class in WoW can rapidly slay massive waves of mobs, but shaman took it to a whole new level, and it was able to do so at an early level than any class in the game. I think it's level 24 or 26 when shaman learns Fire Nova. Talented (specced elemental of course) and glyphed, you reduce it's cooldown to 3 seconds (aka spammable every other spell). With BOA trinkets (4% max mana back after killing something), you can AoE down 5-8 mobs in a matter of 9 seconds, and refund 20-32% of your mana. It only gets easier with chain lighting, and easier still with thunderstorm.
While most of the "worst class" debate is opinion oriented, which I can respect, I just had to point out that you must have been doing something wrong to gripe about shaman leveling being slow. I know many veteran shamans used to preach enhancement leveling on the official forums since that used to be the way to go once upon a time, but they were players who never got to experience the power of modern elemental leveling with BoA gear. Perhaps you followed their advice, because enhance is significantly slower, more taxing on your mana, and more single target oriented.
*It is impossible for there to be an ULTIMATE COOKIE CUTTER build (<--singular) in a multi class game.