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Would you sub/resub if....?
Hey everyone. This is just basically an open-ended question to anyone that once played this game but stopped, or gave the trial a shot and decided it wasn't for them. What changes would it take for you to sub/resub to DF? You don't need to read the rest. It's just my personal opinion on the game.
Darkfall was the most fun I've ever had in an MMO, and I've tried virtually all of them from around the last ten years. I played during beta, actually managed to refresh my way to victory during those first couple preorder hours that beta players received when the shop went live, and even snagged accounts for 4 friends. Hands down, no other game got our hearts pumping like DF did. After 3 months, we all stopped playing. Yet, to this day, we randomly talk about sieges (Tequila or whatever it's called, when we tried defending the dock portion of the city, lost it, retreated to the keep, watched everyone die around us, saw one of the guys from that German guild wigging out and hearthstoning in terror, lost the keep, jumped off the keep, managed to get on the elevator, and pretty much survived by sheer luck -- by the time we escaped, we literally could not see a single friendly anywhere), our old gold runs in fire hall, our first naval battle (two rafts stuffed with people, firing missiles at each other), etc.
As fun as all that was, two things broke the game for us. First was the PvE. You need good PvE, even in a PvP game. And for those first few months, PvE was awful. Essentially, we were always either a) bugging out a mob and killing it with 5000 arrows or b) mount kicking. Most of our time was spent competing for the BK spawn, taking ten years to kill Baradon for the key drop, or farming Fire Hall for reagents + money.
The second thing? The skill system. All the way until release, AV kept talking about their amazing softcap/hardcap skill degradation system. The thing that was supposed to keep us from being amazing warrior/archer/mages. When the game came out, I remember macroing away in the starter city (eventually the guild city, after they began enforcing the macro thing) and wondering when I'd hit the skill cap. People wondered the same in chat. It never happened. I never understood why they decided to silently change one of their biggest features (it was even ON the features list), but they did. Either way, this was the thing that made all of us quit.
If you wanted to be competitive, you had to get your skills up. The fastest way to do that was to macro. And EVERYONE did it. Every night, our guild city was full of people hiding in obscure corners, using block and hit Autoit scripts that they timed in vent so that they wouldn't kill each other. Or auto-swimming in a pool of water. Or firing splash damage spells at the ground to get the spell + their rigor up. One of my friends actually snuck into CoC city one night and sat on vent and counted off the amount of macroers he killed inside one of the buildings. I think the count got up to 40-something before someone found him. I swear to God, my electric bills have never been so high. My computer was on 24/7 -- and still, I couldn't compete with folks that exploited their rigor to max with acid pools and got their weapon mastery by hitting people near spawn points.
So what would bring us back? Better PvE and an actual skillcap that makes people fit into roles. Since I don't see the last one happening, I'm sadface. At the end of the day, I sold my account for 120 bucks, but I do still like it for what it was.
Originally posted by geldonyetich
Wow, I knew you guys were pretty desparate to slam the game, but hacking the web page of a major game site so a user review masquarades as an official one? Pretty impressive.
[Edit: no, after seeing there's an actual video associated with it, I guess not, despite the wierd way GameSpot distributes its content making it looks like the reviewer didn't even write this.]
Comments
i did the trial an then i quit. main reason was full-pvp everwhere. i like the concept in EVE. you got the empire, which is near to safe and this is your place to level up a bit, without getting ganked 24/7. if you think you are ready you move to the pvp-zone and you never come back. this is exactly what i am missing in Darkfall: a pvp-free zone for newbs, carebears or whatever. and no, these towers are not sufficient. btw, if you stay carebearing in EVEs empire zone, you will miss the ressources to ever come close to the power of the pvp-players and it will become boring as hell. so i dont vote for changig Darkfall to a wow-type-theme-park, just make a better pvp-game.
regarding the skillcap, i can see the issue, but i dont have enough inside information to judge. again i point to EVE: there is no skillcap. you will just need over 20 years to skill everything. just to then face more new skills for another 10 years afterwards. it works.
PS: in my 3 years in EVE i lived 2 1/2 in the pvp-zone. so no, a pvp-free zone does not nullify the overall free-pvp concept at all.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
OP you are just going to get people who say that they want the FFA pvp changing even though when they try the game they know full well it's a, yep you guessed it, ffa pvp game.
If WoW went full loot ffa pvp then I would consider subbing to that game. Bit stupid me asking for that really given its not about that, oh wait.....
As an aside, they are changing the skill system and they have/are adding more 'pve stuff'. Whilst I still play, for me the biggest improvement would come via a skill capping system alongside the offline skill progression they are proposing.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
The last update (I think its actually called an expansion) did it for me and my two sons, we just resubbed. The biggest difference we have noticed is that there is a ton more PvE for us, we like DF for the crazy threat of the open PvP, however, if your running around with no mobs to fight in order to raise your skills then its kinda hard to PvP with any success. Thats why we quit before.
Now we have been able to find plenty of mobs to hunt and fight and its been a blast (only been back about a week now) so in all fairness we have not explored that much, but coming back the first thing we did see is that there were plenty of mobs for us to fight now.
One thing I do think needs some attention though, the armor graphics and character animations (character graphics overall) really suck bad, wish they would update them, I mean, when Dark Age of Camelot character models, animations and armor graphics would be a HUGE upgrade as old as that game is, then you know your graphics are bad.
But playing the game is fun and now it seems there are places to explore and mobs to fight so we are having fun.
Still wish FFXIV would add some content and better controls, those graphics are INSANE !!! Imagine, DarkFall gameplay with FFXIV graphics, aw man, someone make that game !!!!
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
...skill and stat caps. A skill based system is useless when 90% of people are the same tank/melee/mage.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
This - this is the main reason some of us left in the first place. Good game but needs caps or else EVERYONE is working up to become the same thing.
Really good point, everyone that ganks me is always exactly the same as the last guy that ganked me... hmm, I get ganked alot, but I always die SWINGING !!!!
Just kidding, but yeah, a skill/stat cap would create some meaningful choices and a variety of character builds instead of everyone being the exact same character.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
I was intrigued by all the cool factions, but disappointed to find out it was a FFA game.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It's a pvp game where you'd have to devote an insane amount of hours to become and stay competetive.
In my current situation I don't want nor can I do that. Once they make SIGNIFICANT changes to skilling up, I might consider it again.
I need to get a dedicated gaming rig before I jump back in. Right now I've just got my work laptop.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Everyone these changes are coming real soon in the next Expansion !!! so dont wory resubb like i did.
+1 I don't mind Jack-of-all-trade-master-of-none, but Master-Of-All is just plain ridiculous.
As for what would bring me back:
-Lessen the gap between new player and Veterans. This could be done in many different ways, from diminishing returns on skills, modification to the min/max damage on all skills and spells, reduced grind, etc.
-Localized Ressources and Regional Banking. To create a better, more varried economy, market place, trade routes and a more social environement.
-Remove forms of Instant-Travel. Instant-Travel has no room in a Hardcore game that claims to be all about risk, when Instant-Travel itself removes all risks.
-Deeper crafting system. Specialization to Crafting, so that dedicated crafters can actually exist, rather than allowing everyone to crarft everything because they can.
-Meaningfull Alignement System, and making it viable to live as a Rogue. Right now, kill a player and get an alignement hit. Kill your alfar alt a few times and you're back to positive. It's ridiculous.
-Racial War and RAC incentive. Every clans being ARAC is just one big immersion breaker.
I think that's the main issues I have with the game right now.
This.
AV is defiently going in the right direction so nows the time to sub and get ahead of the game if you ask me.Once DFO 2010 (2011??) releases I have the feeling we'll see Agon fill up pretty quickly.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
This.
I played Eve for like 5 months total (not consecutive) and with PvP free zones I could play at my own snail pace. With DFs open PvP anywhere - I can't. After I spent 15 minutes waiting for one of the farmers to leave me alone - I said, this isn't right, and left. I will come back when DF has something like Eve does- a safe place for noobs to get aquinted with the game at their own pace.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I'll post what I wrote on ForumFall, I think it's a good solution.
Safe zones are not needed in my opinion. The Starter Areas are pretty safe already. And unlike EVE, DarkFall has a much smaller world, creating Safe Zones would limit the area for PvP even further.
What would really need to be done is to fix the Alignement System to make it more meaningfull. Add more variety to Ressources, introduce Localized Ressources and Regional Banking, so that players, news and vets alike, have a need to use NPC Cities more often.
Bringing more players around NPC cities with a working Alignement system will allow for Veteran Players to defend nearby new players from PKers. And by possibly introducing local ressource/regional banking, it would possibly promote racial alliance clans to be created and protect/control certain regions, thus creating a player-made Safe-Zone where players will fight at the borders to gain access to certain spawns of monsters unique to said region.
__________________
Thanks for all the replies, guys! I basically agree with everyone here, though the unlimited skillcap is definitely my number one issue. Anyway, are they actually changing this? From what I read, all they're doing is adding an EVE-like skill-up-while-you're-not-at-the-computer system. Are they actually adding skillcaps?
Originally posted by geldonyetich
Wow, I knew you guys were pretty desparate to slam the game, but hacking the web page of a major game site so a user review masquarades as an official one? Pretty impressive.
[Edit: no, after seeing there's an actual video associated with it, I guess not, despite the wierd way GameSpot distributes its content making it looks like the reviewer didn't even write this.]
This.
AV is defiently going in the right direction so nows the time to sub and get ahead of the game if you ask me.Once DFO 2010 (2011??) releases I have the feeling we'll see Agon fill up pretty quickly.
Thanks for all the replies, guys! I basically agree with everyone here, though the unlimited skillcap is definitely my number one issue. Anyway, are they actually changing this? From what I read, all they're doing is adding an EVE-like skill-up-while-you're-not-at-the-computer system. Are they actually adding skillcaps?
Nope, no skill caps ever.Only specializations/prestige classes.
I play DF from time to time, however there have been about 4-5 months since my last visit. I think i did well ingame but pvp is not my only interest in online games. Anyway i don't feel like coming back since imo the game is only pvp focused and players who prefer to stand out by other means like crafting, building, exploration etc don't have the chance to do so.
I sometimes compare DF to UO and i can't believe how an old game with about 35 skills and a bunch of spells was far more interesting than a 3D game with a seemless world and more than 600 skills to choose from.
The game has serious problems and pvp is not one of them. The devs did not evolve the game as Eve ones did, DF in the state i left was a hudge pvp arena with very limited rpg options.
It's a full ffa pvp game, that means pvp everywhere, you knew that when you signed up.
You spent 15 mins being killed then you left, well done, you may well have found (as most do) that for every 15mins of getting wiped, unless you are a total dullard you can spend weeks upon weeks exploring and skilling up without being killed.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
i like the idea to introduce some system, where it make sense to be a guard and protect a city-area or even the entire region of a race. it should give people some very meaningful advantage to work as such a guard from time to time. as a solo-player, group or guild. this would even empower pvp itself, because gankers would become a very welcome target themselves. and it could protect newbs a bit.
however, i think the EVE approach is possible in Darkfall. implement a 2nd continent, which is PVE only. you will get tons of new players and after time you will need more pvp continents, trust me. the pvp-continents just have to be smarter in terms of ressources and more, like the 0.0-zone in EVE is far superior.
even if you would simply copy the existing continent of Darkfall with all NPC and quests in a 1st step and make it PVE-only, in order to get started fast. the revenue would raise heavily. and shortly after that, the population on the pvp-continent.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Do you mean npcs or non pvp zones with regards to EVE? EVE doesn't have a 'pve zone'. Recreating hisec zones in DF would be tantamount to adding npc police and more towers, nothing more, you could still be killed there
DF does not need a 'Trammel' it needs a skill cap and offline skilling system, oh and people to realise it's a ffa pvp game...
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
No.
as i wrote above, i played it for 3 years, mostly in 0.0 pvp-zone. of course EVE got no PVE-zone. the so called Empire, which is about 20% of the world is just guarded by Concorde, a superior NPC police force. the Empire is just, where carebears and a lot of newbs reside. you are able to kill people in Empire, but Concorde will kill you immediately, perhaps even before you made your kill. there is no way to esacpe. however, killing in empire might be still profitable, if your mate loots while you die. just if the victim was stupid enough to move around with tons of luxury goods that is.
of course you could implement such a NPC police force in addition to towers or more towers simply. however, just to protect newbie area is not sufficient.
and you dont need people that realise its a ffa pvp. you need devs who realise, that ffa pvp cant be succesful these days anymore without attracting ffa pvp to more people slowly.
however, with a skillcap so you could just learn about 20% of the available skills and be forced to specialize, i would consider to check it again. however, i like pvp. i am not the typical player DF has to win for ffa pvp.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
You don't 'attract' non pvpers into an ffa pvp game by giving them entire safe zones. What happens is that they ask for more and more safe zones, the developers see the cash cow and impliment said safe zones and there goes the ffa pvp game. Aside from that the community becomes split, this is exactly what happened with the advent of Trammel.
DF does not need to appeal to non pvpers, it needs to draw in more pvpers by adding a skill cap and reducing the grind.
AV knows full well that they will not be appealing to the masses with this game, what the masses need to realise is that it is not for them.
As for your EVE experience, well I feel we got at crossed wires there, I got the impression you were trying to say that it had non pvp zones. Eitherway that system will not work for DF for the reason that DF is far more pvp focused then EVE, wherease EVE (whilst the most cut-throat game out there) is more about politics and economy.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I would resub right now if there was a skill cap. You don't need to increase skill gains for us noobs. . just cap them. . or degradation.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
yes, your comment about the differences of EVE and DF, makes things even more complicate. there are different types of pvp-players out there.
i myself, i am not interested in killing people. i am also not interested in pvp-fights. i would never go into an arena or ask somebody for a duel. why should i? that doesnt make sense to me. i kill people, because they steel my guilds ressources, or because we like to get theirs. unfortunately i have to kill them therefor.
i also like the superior strategic aspect of pvp. to plan, how to conquer an enemies teritory or how to get so strong or tricky, that they have no chance at all. even if we are less people. such things are fun to me in pvp. other pvp-players are just the NPC with the better AI to me (mostly). but the fight itself one-o-one is no fun to me. if there is a need to kill somebody, i simply do it.
i guess we are different pvp-players.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds