Darkfall has failed both in terms of population and quality. It's a low quality game with a small population.
Also, what I said is that good graphics are an indiciation of high production values and a game with high production values tend to be better than those with low production values. Darkfall and Mortal online a great examples of this.
'Quality' is not about graphics.....
DF has a low population in comparison to major mmos predominantly due to the fact that it is a niche game that has a ruleset that appeals to a small subsection of the mmo gaming consumer base and a grind system that is off putting to say the least. Or are you suggesting that with polished graphics a full loot ffa pvp mmo will draw in the kind of subs casual mmos do?
High production values mean jack all, WAR had high production values as did APB, how are they doing again?
Again i'll say it, 'quality' is not about graphics, and oldschool players looking at possible successors (which frankly I doubt there will be one) to UO will not be looking at the graphics of the game as an indicator to such status.
A future mmo can have all the money in the world shovelled at it and production values of the highest order, that does not mean it has the 'qualities' which will appeal to UO players.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Darkfall has failed both in terms of population and quality. It's a low quality game with a small population.
Also, what I said is that good graphics are an indiciation of high production values and a game with high production values tend to be better than those with low production values. Darkfall and Mortal online a great examples of this.
I guess it depends on how you individually define "success" or "failure". For an independent studio, and a game that was largely considered vaporware before release, I think their expansions into new office spaces and the hiring of additional developers is a great sign that Aventurine is achieving the success they needed or desired to continue running their servers. Obviously, they have enough subscribers to warrant such actions, and feel finacially stable enough to enact this movement. As far as I'm concerned, that fits my definition of a success.
Also, I shared many of the same feelings you have before I tried Darkfall again for my second time, after months away from the release of the game. The graphics are astounding if you've the rig to run them, the world is extremely well designed, the modeling is great and borders some form of realism, and the production value, while it may feel different from other MMO's, I find to be quite acceptable. There are changes many of us would like to see, sure, and some of those are being addressed with DF2010 (like the UI, for example), but I think relating Mortal Online and DFO to one another is a grave injustice, and orders of magnitude separate the two as far as production and design quality are concerned.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Darkfall has failed both in terms of population and quality. It's a low quality game with a small population.
Also, what I said is that good graphics are an indiciation of high production values and a game with high production values tend to be better than those with low production values. Darkfall and Mortal online a great examples of this.
'Quality' is not about graphics.....
DF has a low population in comparison to major mmos predominantly due to the fact that it is a niche game that has a ruleset that appeals to a small subsection of the mmo gaming consumer base and a grind system that is off putting to say the least. Or are you suggesting that with polished graphics a full loot ffa pvp mmo will draw in the kind of subs casual mmos do?
High production values mean jack all, WAR had high production values as did APB, how are they doing again?
Again i'll say it, 'quality' is not about graphics, and oldschool players looking at possible successors (which frankly I doubt there will be one) to UO will not be looking at the graphics of the game as an indicator to such status.
A future mmo can have all the money in the world shovelled at it and production values of the highest order, that does not mean it has the 'qualities' which will appeal to UO players.
I didn't say that quality is about the graphics. I said that graphics indicate what the production values of a game.
I don't think that saying it's a niche excuses it. EVE online can be pretty punishing, that games seems to do quite well. Lineage 2 at one point had item drop. To put that in perspective, one piece of equipment in Lineage 2 is usually more valuable than your entire inventory in most other MMORPGs and it's one of the most successful MMORPGs around. The reason why Darkfall didn't well is quite simple: It's just not a good game.
Sure games like Warhammer has their problems, but it is still miles ahead of something like Darkfall.
A high budget does not guarentee a good MMORPG, but it is a requirement for every good MMORPG.
I didn't say that quality is about the graphics. I said that graphics indicate what the production values of a game.
I don't think that saying it's a niche excuses it. EVE online can be pretty punishing, that games seems to do quite well. Lineage 2 at one point had item drop. To put that in perspective, one piece of equipment in Lineage 2 is usually more valuable than your entire inventory in most other MMORPGs and it's one of the most successful MMORPGs around. The reason why Darkfall didn't well is quite simple: It's just not a good game.
Sure games like Warhammer has their problems, but it is still miles ahead of something like Darkfall.
A high budget does not guarentee a good MMORPG, but it is a requirement for every good MMORPG.
EVE is a different beast altogether (I know I play it) and when it first started it was not all smooth sailing. Darkfall is a very good game and has amazing potential, personally having played WAR to endgame I think that DF is a million miles infront of that but then that is down to personal opinion.
Again, saying a large budget is required for a good mmorpg is laughable. Very few people who are looking for a potential follow up to UO are primarily concerned about the developer throwing money at it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
He's worked on some spectacular games. I'm sure it will do well.
*sarcasm end*
Lineage and Aion are two of the most successful mmorpgs of all time.
Also, It's a bit pointless to compare to Mortal Online and Darkfall. Both of those games are low budget trash. Arch Age is a fully funded MMORPG with arguably the best graphics seen thus far, which is a sign of high production values.
This ^^^ -- I don't always agree with Gameloading, but with this I must agree on because he is right.
Originally posted by Sukiyaki Just the configuration of the mapUI appears like already straining the current average western "MMO"gamers acceptance to use their brain while gaming over the top. Not as it would be unnecessary complicated, but because it demands (thoughtful) playerinput for effective or any utilization at all, not just another "click the "Next"-button please" system as used to. With the vast size of the maps or complexity of just a single city I am already seeing the chat full of clueless QQ and ragequitter.Ironical considering creating vast and immersive (not empty bloated copy&paste) worlds was on of the leading ideas when the trend towards "Massive"MOs begun.Looks like another game that's not dumbed down and shallow enough for the western gamermasses to enjoy their beloved candy grind in.
Just the configuration of the mapUI appears like already straining the current average western "MMO"gamers acceptance to use their brain while gaming over the top. Not as it would be unnecessary complicated, but because it demands (thoughtful) playerinput for effective or any utilization at all, not just another "click the "Next"-button please" system as used to. With the vast size of the maps or complexity of just a single city I am already seeing the chat full of clueless QQ and ragequitter.
Ironical considering creating vast and immersive (not empty bloated copy&paste) worlds was on of the leading ideas when the trend towards "Massive"MOs begun.
Looks like another game that's not dumbed down and shallow enough for the western gamermasses to enjoy their beloved candy grind in.
Sounds like it may be interesting. Anyone know if it is making the same mistake Darkfall and MO made by making it non consentual pvp?
You mean making the same 'choice' surely? You do realise ofc that game developers are allowed to make mmo's that cater to the ffa playerbase, that doing so reduces the potential target audience is not a 'mistake', unless they are aiming at a casual audience or one averse to such pvp mechanics.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Sounds like it may be interesting. Anyone know if it is making the same mistake Darkfall and MO made by making it non consentual pvp?
You mean making the same 'choice' surely? You do realise ofc that game developers are allowed to make mmo's that cater to the ffa playerbase, that doing so reduces the potential target audience is not a 'mistake', unless they are aiming at a casual audience or one averse to such pvp mechanics.
Meh true enough. Let me refrase my question. Has anyone heard if ArcheAge is going to make the same choice regarding ffa pvp as DF and MO?
Sounds like it may be interesting. Anyone know if it is making the same mistake Darkfall and MO made by making it non consentual pvp?
You mean making the same 'choice' surely? You do realise ofc that game developers are allowed to make mmo's that cater to the ffa playerbase, that doing so reduces the potential target audience is not a 'mistake', unless they are aiming at a casual audience or one averse to such pvp mechanics.
Meh true enough. Let me refrase my question. Has anyone heard if ArcheAge is going to make the same choice regarding ffa pvp as DF and MO?
I've not really looked that deeply into it so I'm not entirely sure, but this link seems to suggest that they are undecided as to which pvp model they are going to follow.
Hi I just have a few question about sandboxes, I never played a "true sandboxx" I think, unless you count assassin credd as sandbox.....but anyways. So does sandbox have immersive story? or do I just walk around the whole game crafting battling random encounters and building houses?
btw ArcheAge looks great
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Lineage and Aion are two of the most successful mmorpgs of all time.
Also, It's a bit pointless to compare to Mortal Online and Darkfall. Both of those games are low budget trash. Arch Age is a fully funded MMORPG with arguably the best graphics seen thus far, which is a sign of high production values.
Those 'low budget trash' games come a hell of alot closer to the likes of UO than big budget horseshit like Aion does.
Oh and graphics quality is the last thing most UO vets will look at when a game purports to be the successor to UO.
I'll keep an eye on it but I have my doubts.
That doesn't make any sense. Aion was never even trying to be like UO, it was going in the same direction as WoW and it did a pretty good job at it, unlike both Mortal Online and Darkfall which both failed miserabely as pretty much every low budget MMORPG does.
to Adamantine:
While the graphic style of Aion is eastern, the gameplay and design of the game is noticeably Western.
I think if you'd ask Andrew Tepper of A Tale in the Desert if he thought his game was a failure, he'd tell you no seeing as how they're in their 5th game. So low budget does not really mean a total failure. Of course it is a niche game and most people will dismiss it because it is not combat based or feature quests.
this game is ridiculous, you can build big ass ships that require many coordinated players doing diffrerent things to properly sail it and then have freaking naval battles with other ships, has this been done before?
Let's not say it can do anything before its released and we actually see it. MMOs pre launch are 80% lies.
archage looks decent for a korean mmo. (there usaully awful grind fests) But without full loot and full pvp i cant see how it can be called a successor to UO. Still though its one im watching and sure does look nice and shiny with some good features even bringing a few unique things to the mmo table.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Comments
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'Quality' is not about graphics.....
DF has a low population in comparison to major mmos predominantly due to the fact that it is a niche game that has a ruleset that appeals to a small subsection of the mmo gaming consumer base and a grind system that is off putting to say the least. Or are you suggesting that with polished graphics a full loot ffa pvp mmo will draw in the kind of subs casual mmos do?
High production values mean jack all, WAR had high production values as did APB, how are they doing again?
Again i'll say it, 'quality' is not about graphics, and oldschool players looking at possible successors (which frankly I doubt there will be one) to UO will not be looking at the graphics of the game as an indicator to such status.
A future mmo can have all the money in the world shovelled at it and production values of the highest order, that does not mean it has the 'qualities' which will appeal to UO players.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I guess it depends on how you individually define "success" or "failure". For an independent studio, and a game that was largely considered vaporware before release, I think their expansions into new office spaces and the hiring of additional developers is a great sign that Aventurine is achieving the success they needed or desired to continue running their servers. Obviously, they have enough subscribers to warrant such actions, and feel finacially stable enough to enact this movement. As far as I'm concerned, that fits my definition of a success.
Also, I shared many of the same feelings you have before I tried Darkfall again for my second time, after months away from the release of the game. The graphics are astounding if you've the rig to run them, the world is extremely well designed, the modeling is great and borders some form of realism, and the production value, while it may feel different from other MMO's, I find to be quite acceptable. There are changes many of us would like to see, sure, and some of those are being addressed with DF2010 (like the UI, for example), but I think relating Mortal Online and DFO to one another is a grave injustice, and orders of magnitude separate the two as far as production and design quality are concerned.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I didn't say that quality is about the graphics. I said that graphics indicate what the production values of a game.
I don't think that saying it's a niche excuses it. EVE online can be pretty punishing, that games seems to do quite well. Lineage 2 at one point had item drop. To put that in perspective, one piece of equipment in Lineage 2 is usually more valuable than your entire inventory in most other MMORPGs and it's one of the most successful MMORPGs around. The reason why Darkfall didn't well is quite simple: It's just not a good game.
Sure games like Warhammer has their problems, but it is still miles ahead of something like Darkfall.
A high budget does not guarentee a good MMORPG, but it is a requirement for every good MMORPG.
I did not get past the first 2 questions. Sounds like a typical Korean clicky grind-fest game, which suck IMHO. None of them ever do well in the US.
EVE is a different beast altogether (I know I play it) and when it first started it was not all smooth sailing. Darkfall is a very good game and has amazing potential, personally having played WAR to endgame I think that DF is a million miles infront of that but then that is down to personal opinion.
Again, saying a large budget is required for a good mmorpg is laughable. Very few people who are looking for a potential follow up to UO are primarily concerned about the developer throwing money at it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
This ^^^ -- I don't always agree with Gameloading, but with this I must agree on because he is right.
F2P
And the Hype Machine starts to gear up.....lol.......I'll just sti back and watch.
Could you provide a link confirming this? I havent found any official announcement on pricing structure yet.
Yeah, thats what I was just starting to think too.
So the PvP is instanced? 50vs 50 sounds like a instance battle match to me.
World PvP is never balanced around small numbers like that.
So this cant be World PvP
Silly me, I thought I had you fooled.
AION requires too much intelligence for me.
/end sarcasm
Sounds like it may be interesting. Anyone know if it is making the same mistake Darkfall and MO made by making it non consentual pvp?
You mean making the same 'choice' surely? You do realise ofc that game developers are allowed to make mmo's that cater to the ffa playerbase, that doing so reduces the potential target audience is not a 'mistake', unless they are aiming at a casual audience or one averse to such pvp mechanics.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Meh true enough. Let me refrase my question. Has anyone heard if ArcheAge is going to make the same choice regarding ffa pvp as DF and MO?
I've not really looked that deeply into it so I'm not entirely sure, but this link seems to suggest that they are undecided as to which pvp model they are going to follow.
http://archeage-online.com/post/1472645984/will-there-be-pvp-in-this-game-if-so-can-you-describe
Interestingly they also claim, "Suffice it to say, ArcheAge is not an Ultima clone. There will be some major differences in gameplay."
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
A "clone" of anything is a bad thing.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Wait wut?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
LOL!!!
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Hi I just have a few question about sandboxes, I never played a "true sandboxx" I think, unless you count assassin credd as sandbox.....but anyways. So does sandbox have immersive story? or do I just walk around the whole game crafting battling random encounters and building houses?
btw ArcheAge looks great
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I think if you'd ask Andrew Tepper of A Tale in the Desert if he thought his game was a failure, he'd tell you no seeing as how they're in their 5th game. So low budget does not really mean a total failure. Of course it is a niche game and most people will dismiss it because it is not combat based or feature quests.
Let's not say it can do anything before its released and we actually see it. MMOs pre launch are 80% lies.
And yes, Darkfall has done it.
archage looks decent for a korean mmo. (there usaully awful grind fests) But without full loot and full pvp i cant see how it can be called a successor to UO. Still though its one im watching and sure does look nice and shiny with some good features even bringing a few unique things to the mmo table.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.