I've been thinking for some time now that this game will follow the same model as GW1 and GW2, which is buy to play.
Look, people will spend money on stuff in games whether it's F2P or not, but more people will play and buy stuff, if they don't have to pay to do it. My brother-in-law, who I got into playing Aion (this is his first MMO) actually bought crap from the NCSoft store I din't know you could buy. One day he asked me where people got the pets, I told him you can get them from a pet merchant in game, they cost anywhere from 1 to almost 2 mil, or you can play for a year and get one as a vet reward. So he logs out for bit, logs back in with a Pesky Manduri and tells me he just bought it from the Aion store instead. I'm old school and actually used ingame currancy I made to buy my pet. Truth is, most people won't want to spend hours upon hours saving money in a game to buy stuff, because they have never had to put effort into playing, like we have in old MMOs like SWG.
Look, like GW2 or not, SWTOR is not going to even be able to compete subscriberwise when it comes GW2 unless they use the same damn model.
Like I said, the numbers are actually in Bioware's favor. if the game plays well they'll have the subscribers needed to pay for the game without a cash shop. THAT SAID, this is EA we are talking about, king of the DLC and more than a little greedy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that they will have an item shop akin to what Blizzard has for WoW with plenty of fluff items for sell.
Yeah, honestly I could care less what they do at this point though, if it costs $20 per month to play, could care less, if it cost $2 per month, free, whatever. If it's fun for me --I'll play, if not-- I won't.
I'm not gonna argue about whether MT is good or bad anymore, but I'll stick by what I said, GW2 will have a larger and stronger playerbase than TOR for many reasons. Most people who break from playing WoW, leave to play GW1, that's a fact. I'm not a fan of GW, but I'm sure I'll try GW2 when it launches, mostly because I don't mind sword games from time to time and there is no long term commitment. If I hate it after 3 months, I only wasted what I spent buying the box and my free time.
Hubertz is spouting self-serving rubbish. His own stable of weak, maginal browser games hardly qualifies him as an expert on AAA games or their finances.
Also, no one in this thread seems to be calculating the potential income of SWTOR fully. Being conservative, I think it looks at least this big:
500,000 copies at $49.99 retail with perhaps half as downloads -
250,000 copies at $40 profit = $10,000,000
250,000 copies as retail boxes at $25 profit =$5,000,000
500,000 montlhy fees at $14.99 for 12 months = $89,940,000
1st year income from 500,000 subscriber/purchases = over $100,000,000
500,000 is likely a low figure for initial sales and subscriptions. what happens after that depends on the quality pof the product.
What are the operating expenses for SWTOR? Your guess is as good as mine but clearly the earning potential is huge. None of this means EA might not choose to tack on some sort of microtransaction shop but here's hoping they don't. Microtransactions are the sign of failure and/or a poor product in the West.
I've been thinking for some time now that this game will follow the same model as GW1 and GW2, which is buy to play.
Look, people will spend money on stuff in games whether it's F2P or not, but more people will play and buy stuff, if they don't have to pay to do it. My brother-in-law, who I got into playing Aion (this is his first MMO) actually bought crap from the NCSoft store I din't know you could buy. One day he asked me where people got the pets, I told him you can get them from a pet merchant in game, they cost anywhere from 1 to almost 2 mil, or you can play for a year and get one as a vet reward. So he logs out for bit, logs back in with a Pesky Manduri and tells me he just bought it from the Aion store instead. I'm old school and actually used ingame currancy I made to buy my pet. Truth is, most people won't want to spend hours upon hours saving money in a game to buy stuff, because they have never had to put effort into playing, like we have in old MMOs like SWG.
Look, like GW2 or not, SWTOR is not going to even be able to compete subscriberwise when it comes GW2 unless they use the same damn model.
Like I said, the numbers are actually in Bioware's favor. if the game plays well they'll have the subscribers needed to pay for the game without a cash shop. THAT SAID, this is EA we are talking about, king of the DLC and more than a little greedy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that they will have an item shop akin to what Blizzard has for WoW with plenty of fluff items for sell.
Yeah, honestly I could care less what they do at this point though, if it costs $20 per month to play, could care less, if it cost $2 per month, free, whatever. If it's fun for me --I'll play, if not-- I won't.
I'm not gonna argue about whether MT is good or bad anymore, but I'll stick by what I said, GW2 will have a larger and stronger playerbase than TOR for many reasons. Most people who break from playing WoW, leave to play GW1, that's a fact. I'm not a fan of GW, but I'm sure I'll try GW2 when it launches, mostly because I don't mind sword games from time to time and there is no long term commitment. If I hate it after 3 months, I only wasted what I spent buying the box and my free time.
I don't really mind micro-transactions in a sub game as long as they are just non-essential fluff items, which if TOR has an item shop, that's what it will be. As long as MT doesn't get in my way, I couldn't care less.
I've been thinking for some time now that this game will follow the same model as GW1 and GW2, which is buy to play.
Look, people will spend money on stuff in games whether it's F2P or not, but more people will play and buy stuff, if they don't have to pay to do it. My brother-in-law, who I got into playing Aion (this is his first MMO) actually bought crap from the NCSoft store I din't know you could buy. One day he asked me where people got the pets, I told him you can get them from a pet merchant in game, they cost anywhere from 1 to almost 2 mil, or you can play for a year and get one as a vet reward. So he logs out for bit, logs back in with a Pesky Manduri and tells me he just bought it from the Aion store instead. I'm old school and actually used ingame currancy I made to buy my pet. Truth is, most people won't want to spend hours upon hours saving money in a game to buy stuff, because they have never had to put effort into playing, like we have in old MMOs like SWG.
Look, like GW2 or not, SWTOR is not going to even be able to compete subscriberwise when it comes GW2 unless they use the same damn model.
I believe they can compete with GW2 pretty easily with a subscription.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Who or what is Bigpoint games? Never heard of them.
and the CEO is saying that of SWTOR and look at the games from Bigpoint LMAO http://us.bigpoint.com/
My point exactly. I've never heard of any of their games, much less played them. For the small fish he is to have this critical assessment of a major player is like a paperboy trying to give insight into the financial workings of Time Inc.
He has a right to post the article. This is a forum lol, but it really has no merit since we have no idea what Bioware is doing at this point. Also, considering the 3 million or so copies of KOTOR sold and how many people were addicted to that, I think they will do fine as long as Launch is not a buggy, server crashing mess. People who are fans are going to want to play month after month and I dont think they are going to make the same mistake as Star Trek Online.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
True, but hasn't everyone been harping that tune for every mmo that's been released post-wow?
Who or what is Bigpoint games? Never heard of them.
and the CEO is saying that of SWTOR and look at the games from Bigpoint LMAO http://us.bigpoint.com/
My point exactly. I've never heard of any of their games, much less played them. For the small fish he is to have this critical assessment of a major player is like a paperboy trying to give insight into the financial workings of Time Inc.
Now you've heard of them and you probably visited the site (as I did). Mission Complete.
I've been thinking for some time now that this game will follow the same model as GW1 and GW2, which is buy to play.
Look, people will spend money on stuff in games whether it's F2P or not, but more people will play and buy stuff, if they don't have to pay to do it. My brother-in-law, who I got into playing Aion (this is his first MMO) actually bought crap from the NCSoft store I din't know you could buy. One day he asked me where people got the pets, I told him you can get them from a pet merchant in game, they cost anywhere from 1 to almost 2 mil, or you can play for a year and get one as a vet reward. So he logs out for bit, logs back in with a Pesky Manduri and tells me he just bought it from the Aion store instead. I'm old school and actually used ingame currancy I made to buy my pet. Truth is, most people won't want to spend hours upon hours saving money in a game to buy stuff, because they have never had to put effort into playing, like we have in old MMOs like SWG.
Look, like GW2 or not, SWTOR is not going to even be able to compete subscriberwise when it comes GW2 unless they use the same damn model.
I believe they can compete with GW2 pretty easily with a subscription.
For how long? If end game in SWTOR is just re-roll+rinse repeat, they have already lost because most of GW2's game is the end game. And you've seen how they are able to pound out expansions for GW1.
investors in most cases want a return in a finacial quarter on principal then interest in the first year. Wow from what I understand financed 70% of their development in house so they had the time to build profit without fear. While not paying back the principal in the first quarter is not horrible it makes it less likely that investors will come back for the next game.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
True, but hasn't everyone been harping that tune for every mmo that's been released post-wow?
Yep, and GW2 won't beat Wow on a global scale for some time, but I think the reason why GW2 wil do ok is based on what we know; it's familar to those who play GW1. We don't know enough about SWTOR, but based on what we do know "story" that isn't gonna be enough for a lot of people who play MMOs and skip most of the dialog to be peeing their pants in excitment over.
Badly designed P2P games lose money, Quality produced games will always make a profet
@ ; CEO Heiko Hubertz comes off as a greedy self-serving S.O.B.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
I don't think that's what Bioware is going to do, nor have I ever thought that. I always thought people calling games "WoW killers" to be delusional. I mean seriouisly. And honestly, I think most mmo players, after saying rediculous stuff like that for so long and being WRONG, have finally figured out there will be no WoW killer. I haven't seen many at all saying the same sort of thing about TOR. But what I do say is that both Star Wars and Bioware have a ready made fanbase in the millions. They don't NEED to steal subs from WoW.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
Those people are irrational morons. WoW isn't invincible, but it has its fair share of fans, who probably wouldn't leave as long as they had 25 active people and could get a raid in every now and then. Those fans brought there friends, and those friends invited more and so on. Eventually blizzard advertised and that brought more people. But all of that plays a VERY small role, ultimatly WoW was just all around fun and it was pretty polished besides the server instability in the beginning.
SWTOR, GW2. Both of them have a fanbase, I honestly think SWTOR fanbase is far larger than GW2, just because of BioWare, Star Wars, Kotor, RPG fans etc. My point being, WoW wont die because a new "better" MMO has moved into the market. The people who claim a game will kill another are chasing the Bigfoot of MMO news.
I've been thinking for some time now that this game will follow the same model as GW1 and GW2, which is buy to play.
Look, people will spend money on stuff in games whether it's F2P or not, but more people will play and buy stuff, if they don't have to pay to do it. My brother-in-law, who I got into playing Aion (this is his first MMO) actually bought crap from the NCSoft store I din't know you could buy. One day he asked me where people got the pets, I told him you can get them from a pet merchant in game, they cost anywhere from 1 to almost 2 mil, or you can play for a year and get one as a vet reward. So he logs out for bit, logs back in with a Pesky Manduri and tells me he just bought it from the Aion store instead. I'm old school and actually used ingame currancy I made to buy my pet. Truth is, most people won't want to spend hours upon hours saving money in a game to buy stuff, because they have never had to put effort into playing, like we have in old MMOs like SWG.
Look, like GW2 or not, SWTOR is not going to even be able to compete subscriberwise when it comes GW2 unless they use the same damn model.
I believe they can compete with GW2 pretty easily with a subscription.
For how long? If end game in SWTOR is just re-roll+rinse repeat, they have already lost because most of GW2's game is the end game. And you've seen how they are able to pound out expansions for GW1.
To early to answer, we only know you can re-roll and get a new experience, but we also know there will be endgame, we're lacking the information on it though. I think if they can deliver some time consuming fun endgame I'll be happy with that and just the reroll cycle. I like having alts but absolutely hate leveling a second time, a new experience should make it enjoyable.
Edit: Forgot to mention PvP, they've been more vocal about it lately. I can live on PvP alone in an MMO, but that's just me.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
I don't think that's what Bioware is going to do, nor have I ever thought that. I always thought people calling games "WoW killers" to be delusional. I mean seriouisly. And honestly, I think most mmo players, after saying rediculous stuff like that for so long and being WRONG, have finally figured out there will be no WoW killer. I haven't seen many at all saying the same sort of thing about TOR. But what I do say is that both Star Wars and Bioware have a ready made fanbase in the millions. They don't NEED to steal subs from WoW.
I could link at least 50 posts on their boards saying so, but no need. Star Wars fans, like us are mostly older players, we buy and play anything Star Wars. They already sold us on the game. To capture the younger audience that enjoys WoW and instant gratification, they are gonna have to have a gimmick to get them to stop playing WoW and give TOR a try. As of yet they haven’t come up with anything other than story, which leads me to believe there is one that they have yet to announce Perhaps tomorrow we will find out what that gimmick really is, perhaps not
The only game company executives that keep yelling "P2P is Dead!" are those that run companies that are incapable of making a game worth a sub fee, so what else can they say?
Guy sounds a lot like SOE's Smed, who doesn;t currently have anything near a successful P2P title. He has trumpeted the "future of MMOs" being in microtransactions. Wrong. The only way to get people to play a mediocre game, is to NOT charge a sub fee.
If SOE and Cryptic and other less than top studios can't make money on P2P games, it does not mean that people don't like P2P games, it means they don't like the garbage the industry has been putting out lately.
Make something good, and people will play it. Charging nothing/almost nothing for crap (and nickle and diming people along the way), does not make a good game.
This guy speaking is probably Smed's English second cousin who ate too many paint chips.
Nothing in that interview but self interest and BS.
What I find most amusing was this guy had the nerve to make this his presentation at the London games conference. Which if I'm not mistaken Bioware was in attendance. It's pretty bad when you don't have your own games to talk about, or your own profits to speak on. So you talk down on other peoples games and from far more successful companies.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Yeah, honestly I could care less what they do at this point though, if it costs $20 per month to play, could care less, if it cost $2 per month, free, whatever. If it's fun for me --I'll play, if not-- I won't.
I'm not gonna argue about whether MT is good or bad anymore, but I'll stick by what I said, GW2 will have a larger and stronger playerbase than TOR for many reasons. Most people who break from playing WoW, leave to play GW1, that's a fact. I'm not a fan of GW, but I'm sure I'll try GW2 when it launches, mostly because I don't mind sword games from time to time and there is no long term commitment. If I hate it after 3 months, I only wasted what I spent buying the box and my free time.
Who or what is Bigpoint games? Never heard of them.
and the CEO is saying that of SWTOR and look at the games from Bigpoint LMAO http://us.bigpoint.com/
Hubertz is spouting self-serving rubbish. His own stable of weak, maginal browser games hardly qualifies him as an expert on AAA games or their finances.
Also, no one in this thread seems to be calculating the potential income of SWTOR fully. Being conservative, I think it looks at least this big:
500,000 copies at $49.99 retail with perhaps half as downloads -
250,000 copies at $40 profit = $10,000,000
250,000 copies as retail boxes at $25 profit =$5,000,000
500,000 montlhy fees at $14.99 for 12 months = $89,940,000
1st year income from 500,000 subscriber/purchases = over $100,000,000
500,000 is likely a low figure for initial sales and subscriptions. what happens after that depends on the quality pof the product.
What are the operating expenses for SWTOR? Your guess is as good as mine but clearly the earning potential is huge. None of this means EA might not choose to tack on some sort of microtransaction shop but here's hoping they don't. Microtransactions are the sign of failure and/or a poor product in the West.
Well, case in point
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-02-wow-sucked-oxygen-from-mmo-subs
lol
I don't really mind micro-transactions in a sub game as long as they are just non-essential fluff items, which if TOR has an item shop, that's what it will be. As long as MT doesn't get in my way, I couldn't care less.
I believe they can compete with GW2 pretty easily with a subscription.
Just crap developers making crap games who then blame it on Blizzard. Ironic, it's cryptic. You don't have to appeal to the world to call your game successful. No, WoW didn't steal the genre or the sub model, to many people are just making MMOs that aren't even close to being fun and never made any improvements on existing features.
My point exactly. I've never heard of any of their games, much less played them. For the small fish he is to have this critical assessment of a major player is like a paperboy trying to give insight into the financial workings of Time Inc.
He has a right to post the article. This is a forum lol, but it really has no merit since we have no idea what Bioware is doing at this point. Also, considering the 3 million or so copies of KOTOR sold and how many people were addicted to that, I think they will do fine as long as Launch is not a buggy, server crashing mess. People who are fans are going to want to play month after month and I dont think they are going to make the same mistake as Star Trek Online.
There Is Always Hope!
Yeah but there was a time when everyone thought Cryptic was gonna bring "game over" for WoW, just like people think BioWare is gonna do.
He's just a small time player trying to grab attention to his basement-run company by criticizing one of the top dogs. Happens all the time.
True, but hasn't everyone been harping that tune for every mmo that's been released post-wow?
Now you've heard of them and you probably visited the site (as I did). Mission Complete.
To bad everything there looks god awful.
For how long? If end game in SWTOR is just re-roll+rinse repeat, they have already lost because most of GW2's game is the end game. And you've seen how they are able to pound out expansions for GW1.
investors in most cases want a return in a finacial quarter on principal then interest in the first year. Wow from what I understand financed 70% of their development in house so they had the time to build profit without fear. While not paying back the principal in the first quarter is not horrible it makes it less likely that investors will come back for the next game.
Yep, and GW2 won't beat Wow on a global scale for some time, but I think the reason why GW2 wil do ok is based on what we know; it's familar to those who play GW1. We don't know enough about SWTOR, but based on what we do know "story" that isn't gonna be enough for a lot of people who play MMOs and skip most of the dialog to be peeing their pants in excitment over.
His remarks are pure rubbish.
Badly designed P2P games lose money, Quality produced games will always make a profet
@ ; CEO Heiko Hubertz comes off as a greedy self-serving S.O.B.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I don't think that's what Bioware is going to do, nor have I ever thought that. I always thought people calling games "WoW killers" to be delusional. I mean seriouisly. And honestly, I think most mmo players, after saying rediculous stuff like that for so long and being WRONG, have finally figured out there will be no WoW killer. I haven't seen many at all saying the same sort of thing about TOR. But what I do say is that both Star Wars and Bioware have a ready made fanbase in the millions. They don't NEED to steal subs from WoW.
Companies by nature are greedy S.O.B.'s...atleast the successful ones.
Those people are irrational morons. WoW isn't invincible, but it has its fair share of fans, who probably wouldn't leave as long as they had 25 active people and could get a raid in every now and then. Those fans brought there friends, and those friends invited more and so on. Eventually blizzard advertised and that brought more people. But all of that plays a VERY small role, ultimatly WoW was just all around fun and it was pretty polished besides the server instability in the beginning.
SWTOR, GW2. Both of them have a fanbase, I honestly think SWTOR fanbase is far larger than GW2, just because of BioWare, Star Wars, Kotor, RPG fans etc. My point being, WoW wont die because a new "better" MMO has moved into the market. The people who claim a game will kill another are chasing the Bigfoot of MMO news.
To early to answer, we only know you can re-roll and get a new experience, but we also know there will be endgame, we're lacking the information on it though. I think if they can deliver some time consuming fun endgame I'll be happy with that and just the reroll cycle. I like having alts but absolutely hate leveling a second time, a new experience should make it enjoyable.
Edit: Forgot to mention PvP, they've been more vocal about it lately. I can live on PvP alone in an MMO, but that's just me.
I could link at least 50 posts on their boards saying so, but no need. Star Wars fans, like us are mostly older players, we buy and play anything Star Wars. They already sold us on the game. To capture the younger audience that enjoys WoW and instant gratification, they are gonna have to have a gimmick to get them to stop playing WoW and give TOR a try. As of yet they haven’t come up with anything other than story, which leads me to believe there is one that they have yet to announce Perhaps tomorrow we will find out what that gimmick really is, perhaps not
The only game company executives that keep yelling "P2P is Dead!" are those that run companies that are incapable of making a game worth a sub fee, so what else can they say?
Guy sounds a lot like SOE's Smed, who doesn;t currently have anything near a successful P2P title. He has trumpeted the "future of MMOs" being in microtransactions. Wrong. The only way to get people to play a mediocre game, is to NOT charge a sub fee.
If SOE and Cryptic and other less than top studios can't make money on P2P games, it does not mean that people don't like P2P games, it means they don't like the garbage the industry has been putting out lately.
Make something good, and people will play it. Charging nothing/almost nothing for crap (and nickle and diming people along the way), does not make a good game.
This guy speaking is probably Smed's English second cousin who ate too many paint chips.
Nothing in that interview but self interest and BS.
What I find most amusing was this guy had the nerve to make this his presentation at the London games conference. Which if I'm not mistaken Bioware was in attendance. It's pretty bad when you don't have your own games to talk about, or your own profits to speak on. So you talk down on other peoples games and from far more successful companies.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson