I think a lot of people here don't realize that MMO =! MMORPG. The first three letters are a framework, not necessarily a genre. What matters as far as game play goes are the letters that come after. RPG, FPS, whatever.
From an interview Jeff Strain gave with Kill Ten Rats:
What does the word “massively” in the term “MMO” mean to you, especially for a console MMO?
Massive world. Massive amounts of content. Massive number of players. Massive development costs. Massive risk. Seriously, I abhor the MMO abbreviation, because it has come to represent a very specific kind of game with a very specific kind of play. I’ve been saying for years that MMO is a technology, rather than a game design, and that we can use that technology to create new, exciting kinds of games, rather than iterating on the same core mechanics with each new cycle. The “massive” in MMO is what makes it fun, because it imparts a sense of epic scale to the world, and it provides the opportunity for interaction with your fellow humans (survivors, in our case) that create game experiences not imagined by the designers. Our goal is to retain those key elements of MMOs – massive persistent world and large player population dynamics – while moving on from some of the traditional trappings of the MMO.
“Consoles” and “MMO” can bring contradicting elements to mind. One of the biggest may be polish. As is often lamented, expect bugs in MMOs (with the excuse that MMOs are super complex). By comparison, console games are polished to a blinding shine. How can this hurdle be overcome in a world where we get quality, time, price – pick two?
I’m going to break a Big Rule of Interviews here and talk – briefly – about another company’s game. It’s simply not true that an MMO should be any less polished than a triple-A console game. You can say what you want about World of Warcraft, but there is no question it is one of the most highly polished games on any platform. Sure, it’s had bugs, but the developers have high standards and those bugs are addressed quickly. Complexity should never be an excuse, and more importantly, it should never change your expectations. But I’d also like to point out that polish is about more than eliminating bugs; it’s about the entire play experience feeling just right. You know that feeling you get when you sit down to play a new game and from the very start – the first splash screen, cinematic, login screen – and you can just tell that the developers loved on every detail and you start to feel all warm inside. That’s when gaming is at its best, and that’s what you should demand in every game you play. So, quality, time, price, pick two? This game won’t be out this year (or next), and it won’t be at the back of the store in the bargain bin when it does come out, so our focus is quality.
The other possible contradiction for many of the old school is the higher degree of communication required to sustain MMO populations, which some fear may be lacking in the keyboard-lite console market. Obviously Undead Labs does not believe this to be an issue for a console MMO. Why not?
We obviously don’t think the lack of a keyboard is an issue? You’re kidding, right? This is a huge issue, and probably the most significant risk to the design of the game. Keyboards don’t mix with consoles, and we’re not going to pretend that they do, or try to convince you that they do. Fortunately, voice communication is well entrenched in the console market, which can provide a partial solution, but I’m not convinced that it can fully replace the organic (and anonymous) nature of communication by keyboard. So yeah, we have some hard thinking and design work ahead of us to solve this issue. Marketing guys like to use the word “opportunity” instead of “issue,” and while that normally demands an eye roll, in this case there’s some truth to it. Designing around a console controller rather than a mouse and keyboard will force (or free) us to completely rethink the fundamental design of an MMO for console, rather than trying to shoehorn the PC MMO experience onto console hardware. We have to build a game that is true to the nature of the platform, and that’s going to be half the fun.
Back in the day when ArenaNet released the first Guild Wars it distanced itself from the term “MMO” because it (and believably, you) felt that the mechanics of the game set it apart from the DIKU-like Everquest or World of Warcraft MMOs that nearly defined the term. Have times changed enough that you could make a mold-breaking “MMO” and still call it an “MMO” without gamers being resistant to the term, especially in an arena where console gamers are currently receiving shaky MMO ports?
I’d love to avoid the word “MMO,” simply because it immediately suggests a specific kind of game, more suited to solitary confinement in the basement than hanging out with your friends in the living room. I can wish all I want that “MMO” meant “a game with massive numbers of players online” rather than “a game just like EQ or WoW,” but wishing doesn’t make it reality. I think its more likely that we can expand the definition of “MMO” to include more diverse styles of play than we can coin a new game genre or fall back to explaining how our game plays in multiple paragraphs. We use “MMO” to describe this game because we want people to know that it is a true server-hosted world supporting millions of online players, but we will have to work hard to make it clear that everything else that you associate with “MMO” is under the microscope.
Top MMOs: Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, EVE Online, Planetside Played: Pretty much everything at one point or another
The dude is a moron. Consoles will NEVER compete with a PC. You can't upgrade a console's components. You are stuck with what is offered for the life-cycle of the console. On a PC you can upgrade it whenever you want and the graphics on a PC blow a console out of the water. A low to mid-range PC has better graphics than any console plus you can upgrade the graphics. Consoles may be fine for some but I want the expandability of a PC - multiple monitors, higher resolution, etc...
The dude is a moron. Consoles will NEVER compete with a PC. You can't upgrade a console's components. You are stuck with what is offered for the life-cycle of the console. On a PC you can upgrade it whenever you want and the graphics on a PC blow a console out of the water. A low to mid-range PC has better graphics than any console plus you can upgrade the graphics. Consoles may be fine for some but I want the expandability of a PC - multiple monitors, higher resolution, etc...
Just because consoles don't have hardware upgrades right now doesn't mean they never will. It's even happened in the past. Anyone remember the N64 expansion pack you needed to be able to play Perfect Dark?
Not to mention the fact that graphics isn't the determining factor for what makes a great game, at least not for me. Sure, some people may be graphics crazy, but a lot of people just care about good and innovative game play.
Most of the games I'm playing these days are old gameboy and snes games on emulator. The graphics are nothing compared to what I could get on my PC or my 360. It doesn't matter though, the gameplay is so much better than a lot of the flashing AAA trash we have these days.
Top MMOs: Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, EVE Online, Planetside Played: Pretty much everything at one point or another
The dude is a moron. Consoles will NEVER compete with a PC. You can't upgrade a console's components. You are stuck with what is offered for the life-cycle of the console. On a PC you can upgrade it whenever you want and the graphics on a PC blow a console out of the water. A low to mid-range PC has better graphics than any console plus you can upgrade the graphics. Consoles may be fine for some but I want the expandability of a PC - multiple monitors, higher resolution, etc...
Troll much?
If the world were populated with foaming at the mouth technophiles then what you said would have merit. In the real world, the majority of people don't want to deal with that shit. We want to plug the machine in and play the game already. Incidentally, older tech is a plus because it means that the product will be cheaper.
If you really look at the numbers, more people are playing Flash games and iPhone games than the latest and greatest Triple A spectical shooter. You can tell me that it's all because of different tastes and different audiences, but I don't see why you couldn't do a game like Angry Birds with Unity 3D or UDK and sell it for a buck a pop. Gameplay trumps graphics. Always.
Then again, I'm a recovering hardcore PC gamer and I now spend my time playing games on this:
Just because consoles don't have hardware upgrades right now doesn't mean they never will. It's even happened in the past. Anyone remember the N64 expansion pack you needed to be able to play Perfect Dark?
Not to mention the fact that graphics isn't the determining factor for what makes a great game, at least not for me. Sure, some people may be graphics crazy, but a lot of people just care about good and innovative game play.
Most of the games I'm playing these days are old gameboy and snes games on emulator. The graphics are nothing compared to what I could get on my PC or my 360. It doesn't matter though, the gameplay is so much better than a lot of the flashing AAA trash we have these days.
Highlighted the important part, needed to play one game, not too bad, however, if game companies decided to release more games that NEEDED that upgrade component, you lose part of your audience.
Id really hate to see any hardware expansion for an XBOX 360, the size of the fans required to run any extra hardware would be massive, it would be nice to not have to use a heater in winter though. For MMO console gaming, a fan upgrade would be almost mandatory, or the game would need to have an autokick feature when you play for x ammount of hours due to overheating of the console. Yes, I do see consoles as inferior to PC's, because I am a learning mammal capable of cognitive thought process and logical deduction. The technical specifications of a console are constant throughout its lifetime, when they are released they are at their peak performance capability when compared to a PC, then they begin to lose ground as more and more innovations are made in the hardware world and upgrade paths are introduced, while the console remains on the same architecture and hardware throughout.
As for upgrading consoles...
It will never get as drastic as that, however releasing upgrades for consoles for a select line of games is counter intuitive to why consoles are loved by game developers, they can make a game for one set of specifications and not have to worry about fiddling with settings. Introduce an optional upgrade path, and you introduce a new problem, which new games will make use of that upgraded component? If you make all new games require it, then you piss off the ultra casual console user who doesnt want to upgrade, and cut them out from future games, how much is the upgrade going to cost? where does it plug in? does it need new firmware to run? special upgrade patches?
I dont see an upgrade component being released for the current gen of consoles, perhaps the new generation will be more upgrade friendly, but this generation, with its heat issues and streamlines cases would make (conjecture and hypothesis time!) some balk at the idea of some hideous component being slapped on to the side/top/back of their shiny case.
As long as consoles are locked into a one size fits all zero upgrade path dogma, PC's will always out perform them in speed, TEH GRAFFIXX, and loading times (Given care taken in selecting components and upgrade paths for the PC, any piece of junk pre made system is as limiting and inferior as a console, yet hideously overpriced, if you buy a pc, educate and then build it yourself for much cheaper and powerfull rig).
Id really hate to see any hardware expansion for an XBOX 360, the size of the fans required to run any extra hardware would be massive, it would be nice to not have to use a heater in winter though. For MMO console gaming, a fan upgrade would be almost mandatory, or the game would need to have an autokick feature when you play for x ammount of hours due to overheating of the console. Yes, I do see consoles as inferior to PC's, because I am a learning mammal capable of cognitive thought process and logical deduction. The technical specifications of a console are constant throughout its lifetime, when they are released they are at their peak performance capability when compared to a PC, then they begin to lose ground as more and more innovations are made in the hardware world and upgrade paths are introduced, while the console remains on the same architecture and hardware throughout.
As for upgrading consoles...
It will never get as drastic as that, however releasing upgrades for consoles for a select line of games is counter intuitive to why consoles are loved by game developers, they can make a game for one set of specifications and not have to worry about fiddling with settings. Introduce an optional upgrade path, and you introduce a new problem, which new games will make use of that upgraded component? If you make all new games require it, then you piss off the ultra casual console user who doesnt want to upgrade, and cut them out from future games, how much is the upgrade going to cost? where does it plug in? does it need new firmware to run? special upgrade patches?
I dont see an upgrade component being released for the current gen of consoles, perhaps the new generation will be more upgrade friendly, but this generation, with its heat issues and streamlines cases would make (conjecture and hypothesis time!) some balk at the idea of some hideous component being slapped on to the side/top/back of their shiny case.
As long as consoles are locked into a one size fits all zero upgrade path dogma, PC's will always out perform them in speed, TEH GRAFFIXX, and loading times (Given care taken in selecting components and upgrade paths for the PC, any piece of junk pre made system is as limiting and inferior as a console, yet hideously overpriced, if you buy a pc, educate and then build it yourself for much cheaper and powerfull rig).
Yeah lol, have to agree a bit here. I mean FFXI gave us a taste of that when FFXI first launched. It came with an HDD you needed for the PS2 lol. Initially it didn't sale well because of that.
The appeal of consoles for players is that you get everything you need in the console. There's no updated Graphics card to be purchased in 6 or so months. No added ram. No upgraded PSU, etc.
The appeal to designers is if they design a game for the 360 or the PS3 it will work on all 360's or PS3's (Usually lol). No surprises with conflicting hardware or drivers.
A console will last you probably 5-10 years then you buy the new one. A PC will need to be upgraded every 6 months to a year to generally keep up with PC games (if you want to max everything out that is). Your average PC gamer probably upgrades their PC every 6months to a year and buys a new PC every 3 years.
Gaming rig will always out perform a console. Because just like consoles are getting better and better... well so are PC's.
Also... there's the whole controller vs. my Wolfking Timberwolf and my Razer Naga lol.
Sure I could probably hook them up to my PS3 and use them... but then I'd have to sit at a desk to utilize them to there fullest which defeats the purpose of playing on a console.
Consoles don't have bloated Operating Systems and their games are designed to run on a uniform hardware configuration.
Zero compatability issues, very, very small startup time (for what it's worth). They're designed to play games and little else. The only problem is that the (default) controllers do not allow easy text-based chat, but their microphones are reliable enough to make it a non-issue.
As for the original topic;
He has a point in saying that most MMOs are hardly games. The whole skillbar thing (in terms of screen real-estate) is out of whack and with auto-targeting/auto-attacking it's just a case of choosing the right order to use your skills in.
Unless your ping is in the 300+ range, lag is more-or-less a non-issue unless you're trying to use a sniper-esque skill on a moving target.
Consoles don't have bloated Operating Systems and their games are designed to run on a uniform hardware configuration.
Zero compatability issues, very, very small startup time (for what it's worth). They're designed to play games and little else. The only problem is that the (default) controllers do not allow easy text-based chat, but their microphones are reliable enough to make it a non-issue.
As for the original topic;
He has a point in saying that most MMOs are hardly games. The whole skillbar thing (in terms of screen real-estate) is out of whack and with auto-targeting/auto-attacking it's just a case of choosing the right order to use your skills in.
Unless your ping is in the 300+ range, lag is more-or-less a non-issue unless you're trying to use a sniper-esque skill on a moving target.
last time I checked, but Turn Based RPG like FF are still video games.
this guy is a nut job trying to hype his game by bashing the genre. lol.
He compared mario 64 to MMORPG. WTF???
Mario isnt even a RPG let alone a MMORPG, not MMO at all.
So I dont see what a platformer has to do with MMORPGs...
Consoles don't have bloated Operating Systems and their games are designed to run on a uniform hardware configuration.
Zero compatability issues, very, very small startup time (for what it's worth). They're designed to play games and little else. The only problem is that the (default) controllers do not allow easy text-based chat, but their microphones are reliable enough to make it a non-issue.
As for the original topic;
He has a point in saying that most MMOs are hardly games. The whole skillbar thing (in terms of screen real-estate) is out of whack and with auto-targeting/auto-attacking it's just a case of choosing the right order to use your skills in.
Unless your ping is in the 300+ range, lag is more-or-less a non-issue unless you're trying to use a sniper-esque skill on a moving target.
last time I checked, but Turn Based RPG like FF are still video games.
this guy is a nut job trying to hype his game by bashing the genre. lol.
He compared mario 64 to MMORPG. WTF???
Mario isnt even a RPG let alone a MMORPG, not MMO at all.
So I dont see what a platformer has to do with MMORPGs...
Consoles don't have bloated Operating Systems and their games are designed to run on a uniform hardware configuration.
Zero compatability issues, very, very small startup time (for what it's worth). They're designed to play games and little else. The only problem is that the (default) controllers do not allow easy text-based chat, but their microphones are reliable enough to make it a non-issue.
As for the original topic;
He has a point in saying that most MMOs are hardly games. The whole skillbar thing (in terms of screen real-estate) is out of whack and with auto-targeting/auto-attacking it's just a case of choosing the right order to use your skills in.
Unless your ping is in the 300+ range, lag is more-or-less a non-issue unless you're trying to use a sniper-esque skill on a moving target.
last time I checked, but Turn Based RPG like FF are still video games.
this guy is a nut job trying to hype his game by bashing the genre. lol.
He compared mario 64 to MMORPG. WTF???
Mario isnt even a RPG let alone a MMORPG, not MMO at all.
So I dont see what a platformer has to do with MMORPGs...
Apples to Oranges,,,,
He was comparing them as games. Last time I checked "M.M.O.R.P.G." had a "Game" in it. I think he's correct in saying that some MMORPGs just don't have much "game" in them. What are they then? MMORP?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
He was comparing them as games. Last time I checked "M.M.O.R.P.G." had a "Game" in it. I think he's correct in saying that some MMORPGs just don't have much "game" in them. What are they then? MMORP?
He's actually criticizing the combat mechanics of traditional RPGs, so it's more about the RPG part of MMORPG, and lobbying for MMOFPS.
Different kinds of gameplay. I'm surprised that someone like a game developer doesn't get something so basic. You don't want homogenization of every genre out there, especially not MMOs. Yeah, they have their problems (for example, the RPG part in MMORPG is nowhere to be found in almost all of them) but to argue they're bad or not even games just because they're not twitch based? Please.
EXACTLY.
All this article did was make me realize how fucking CLUELESS some game developers are, as to what a very BROAD variety of gamers WANT. We're not all alike and cannot be lumped into one homogenized category, any more than GAMES need to have that done to THEM. There is variety of styles because there are a variety of PLAYERS.
Twitch based games appeal to me about as much as spending the day sleeping in a nest of brown recluse spiders. FUCK THAT. Which is exactly what I think of those kinds of games.
Since it is a shoot em up, maybe it could educate the ignorant WoW masses (because I am sure the ignorant WoW masses want to play a MMO shoot em up) about the fun that sandbox elements could possess. (I like picking on WoW, sorry)
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Comments
Someone is looking for attention.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Isnt zombie filled post apocalyptic world like 30% of the console game titles
However Fallen Earth is a similar themed MMO already released
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I think a lot of people here don't realize that MMO =! MMORPG. The first three letters are a framework, not necessarily a genre. What matters as far as game play goes are the letters that come after. RPG, FPS, whatever.
From an interview Jeff Strain gave with Kill Ten Rats:
What does the word “massively” in the term “MMO” mean to you, especially for a console MMO?
Massive world. Massive amounts of content. Massive number of players. Massive development costs. Massive risk. Seriously, I abhor the MMO abbreviation, because it has come to represent a very specific kind of game with a very specific kind of play. I’ve been saying for years that MMO is a technology, rather than a game design, and that we can use that technology to create new, exciting kinds of games, rather than iterating on the same core mechanics with each new cycle. The “massive” in MMO is what makes it fun, because it imparts a sense of epic scale to the world, and it provides the opportunity for interaction with your fellow humans (survivors, in our case) that create game experiences not imagined by the designers. Our goal is to retain those key elements of MMOs – massive persistent world and large player population dynamics – while moving on from some of the traditional trappings of the MMO.
“Consoles” and “MMO” can bring contradicting elements to mind. One of the biggest may be polish. As is often lamented, expect bugs in MMOs (with the excuse that MMOs are super complex). By comparison, console games are polished to a blinding shine. How can this hurdle be overcome in a world where we get quality, time, price – pick two?
I’m going to break a Big Rule of Interviews here and talk – briefly – about another company’s game. It’s simply not true that an MMO should be any less polished than a triple-A console game. You can say what you want about World of Warcraft, but there is no question it is one of the most highly polished games on any platform. Sure, it’s had bugs, but the developers have high standards and those bugs are addressed quickly. Complexity should never be an excuse, and more importantly, it should never change your expectations. But I’d also like to point out that polish is about more than eliminating bugs; it’s about the entire play experience feeling just right. You know that feeling you get when you sit down to play a new game and from the very start – the first splash screen, cinematic, login screen – and you can just tell that the developers loved on every detail and you start to feel all warm inside. That’s when gaming is at its best, and that’s what you should demand in every game you play. So, quality, time, price, pick two? This game won’t be out this year (or next), and it won’t be at the back of the store in the bargain bin when it does come out, so our focus is quality.
The other possible contradiction for many of the old school is the higher degree of communication required to sustain MMO populations, which some fear may be lacking in the keyboard-lite console market. Obviously Undead Labs does not believe this to be an issue for a console MMO. Why not?
We obviously don’t think the lack of a keyboard is an issue? You’re kidding, right? This is a huge issue, and probably the most significant risk to the design of the game. Keyboards don’t mix with consoles, and we’re not going to pretend that they do, or try to convince you that they do. Fortunately, voice communication is well entrenched in the console market, which can provide a partial solution, but I’m not convinced that it can fully replace the organic (and anonymous) nature of communication by keyboard. So yeah, we have some hard thinking and design work ahead of us to solve this issue. Marketing guys like to use the word “opportunity” instead of “issue,” and while that normally demands an eye roll, in this case there’s some truth to it. Designing around a console controller rather than a mouse and keyboard will force (or free) us to completely rethink the fundamental design of an MMO for console, rather than trying to shoehorn the PC MMO experience onto console hardware. We have to build a game that is true to the nature of the platform, and that’s going to be half the fun.
Back in the day when ArenaNet released the first Guild Wars it distanced itself from the term “MMO” because it (and believably, you) felt that the mechanics of the game set it apart from the DIKU-like Everquest or World of Warcraft MMOs that nearly defined the term. Have times changed enough that you could make a mold-breaking “MMO” and still call it an “MMO” without gamers being resistant to the term, especially in an arena where console gamers are currently receiving shaky MMO ports?
I’d love to avoid the word “MMO,” simply because it immediately suggests a specific kind of game, more suited to solitary confinement in the basement than hanging out with your friends in the living room. I can wish all I want that “MMO” meant “a game with massive numbers of players online” rather than “a game just like EQ or WoW,” but wishing doesn’t make it reality. I think its more likely that we can expand the definition of “MMO” to include more diverse styles of play than we can coin a new game genre or fall back to explaining how our game plays in multiple paragraphs. We use “MMO” to describe this game because we want people to know that it is a true server-hosted world supporting millions of online players, but we will have to work hard to make it clear that everything else that you associate with “MMO” is under the microscope.
Top MMOs: Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, EVE Online, Planetside
Played: Pretty much everything at one point or another
Goes on and on that he hates MMO's and their lack of action blah blah then advertises his new MMO.
WTFFFFFFFFFFFF???????????????
Console MMO I Lol'd, maybe you can on PS3 but Xbox360 fat chance. Even if you manage too, it'll be a colossal, COLOSSAL failure.
The dude is a moron. Consoles will NEVER compete with a PC. You can't upgrade a console's components. You are stuck with what is offered for the life-cycle of the console. On a PC you can upgrade it whenever you want and the graphics on a PC blow a console out of the water. A low to mid-range PC has better graphics than any console plus you can upgrade the graphics. Consoles may be fine for some but I want the expandability of a PC - multiple monitors, higher resolution, etc...
Just because consoles don't have hardware upgrades right now doesn't mean they never will. It's even happened in the past. Anyone remember the N64 expansion pack you needed to be able to play Perfect Dark?
Not to mention the fact that graphics isn't the determining factor for what makes a great game, at least not for me. Sure, some people may be graphics crazy, but a lot of people just care about good and innovative game play.
Most of the games I'm playing these days are old gameboy and snes games on emulator. The graphics are nothing compared to what I could get on my PC or my 360. It doesn't matter though, the gameplay is so much better than a lot of the flashing AAA trash we have these days.
Top MMOs: Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, EVE Online, Planetside
Played: Pretty much everything at one point or another
Troll much?
If the world were populated with foaming at the mouth technophiles then what you said would have merit. In the real world, the majority of people don't want to deal with that shit. We want to plug the machine in and play the game already. Incidentally, older tech is a plus because it means that the product will be cheaper.
If you really look at the numbers, more people are playing Flash games and iPhone games than the latest and greatest Triple A spectical shooter. You can tell me that it's all because of different tastes and different audiences, but I don't see why you couldn't do a game like Angry Birds with Unity 3D or UDK and sell it for a buck a pop. Gameplay trumps graphics. Always.
Then again, I'm a recovering hardcore PC gamer and I now spend my time playing games on this:
And this:
This:
aaaaaannnnnnnnddddd DOSbox.
... so yeah, not everyone gives a shit about their, or your, epeen.
Agreed 100%. Most people are incapable of wrapping their heads around what an MMO could be. They're stuck in this paradigm of EQ clones.
Highlighted the important part, needed to play one game, not too bad, however, if game companies decided to release more games that NEEDED that upgrade component, you lose part of your audience.
Id really hate to see any hardware expansion for an XBOX 360, the size of the fans required to run any extra hardware would be massive, it would be nice to not have to use a heater in winter though. For MMO console gaming, a fan upgrade would be almost mandatory, or the game would need to have an autokick feature when you play for x ammount of hours due to overheating of the console. Yes, I do see consoles as inferior to PC's, because I am a learning mammal capable of cognitive thought process and logical deduction. The technical specifications of a console are constant throughout its lifetime, when they are released they are at their peak performance capability when compared to a PC, then they begin to lose ground as more and more innovations are made in the hardware world and upgrade paths are introduced, while the console remains on the same architecture and hardware throughout.
As for upgrading consoles...
It will never get as drastic as that, however releasing upgrades for consoles for a select line of games is counter intuitive to why consoles are loved by game developers, they can make a game for one set of specifications and not have to worry about fiddling with settings. Introduce an optional upgrade path, and you introduce a new problem, which new games will make use of that upgraded component? If you make all new games require it, then you piss off the ultra casual console user who doesnt want to upgrade, and cut them out from future games, how much is the upgrade going to cost? where does it plug in? does it need new firmware to run? special upgrade patches?
I dont see an upgrade component being released for the current gen of consoles, perhaps the new generation will be more upgrade friendly, but this generation, with its heat issues and streamlines cases would make (conjecture and hypothesis time!) some balk at the idea of some hideous component being slapped on to the side/top/back of their shiny case.
As long as consoles are locked into a one size fits all zero upgrade path dogma, PC's will always out perform them in speed, TEH GRAFFIXX, and loading times (Given care taken in selecting components and upgrade paths for the PC, any piece of junk pre made system is as limiting and inferior as a console, yet hideously overpriced, if you buy a pc, educate and then build it yourself for much cheaper and powerfull rig).
Yeah lol, have to agree a bit here. I mean FFXI gave us a taste of that when FFXI first launched. It came with an HDD you needed for the PS2 lol. Initially it didn't sale well because of that.
The appeal of consoles for players is that you get everything you need in the console. There's no updated Graphics card to be purchased in 6 or so months. No added ram. No upgraded PSU, etc.
The appeal to designers is if they design a game for the 360 or the PS3 it will work on all 360's or PS3's (Usually lol). No surprises with conflicting hardware or drivers.
A console will last you probably 5-10 years then you buy the new one. A PC will need to be upgraded every 6 months to a year to generally keep up with PC games (if you want to max everything out that is). Your average PC gamer probably upgrades their PC every 6months to a year and buys a new PC every 3 years.
Gaming rig will always out perform a console. Because just like consoles are getting better and better... well so are PC's.
Also... there's the whole controller vs. my Wolfking Timberwolf and my Razer Naga lol.
Sure I could probably hook them up to my PS3 and use them... but then I'd have to sit at a desk to utilize them to there fullest which defeats the purpose of playing on a console.
Consoles don't have bloated Operating Systems and their games are designed to run on a uniform hardware configuration.
Zero compatability issues, very, very small startup time (for what it's worth). They're designed to play games and little else. The only problem is that the (default) controllers do not allow easy text-based chat, but their microphones are reliable enough to make it a non-issue.
As for the original topic;
He has a point in saying that most MMOs are hardly games. The whole skillbar thing (in terms of screen real-estate) is out of whack and with auto-targeting/auto-attacking it's just a case of choosing the right order to use your skills in.
Unless your ping is in the 300+ range, lag is more-or-less a non-issue unless you're trying to use a sniper-esque skill on a moving target.
last time I checked, but Turn Based RPG like FF are still video games.
this guy is a nut job trying to hype his game by bashing the genre. lol.
He compared mario 64 to MMORPG. WTF???
Mario isnt even a RPG let alone a MMORPG, not MMO at all.
So I dont see what a platformer has to do with MMORPGs...
Apples to Oranges,,,,
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
What about Super Mario RPG?
He was comparing them as games. Last time I checked "M.M.O.R.P.G." had a "Game" in it. I think he's correct in saying that some MMORPGs just don't have much "game" in them. What are they then? MMORP?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
He's actually criticizing the combat mechanics of traditional RPGs, so it's more about the RPG part of MMORPG, and lobbying for MMOFPS.
EXACTLY.
All this article did was make me realize how fucking CLUELESS some game developers are, as to what a very BROAD variety of gamers WANT. We're not all alike and cannot be lumped into one homogenized category, any more than GAMES need to have that done to THEM. There is variety of styles because there are a variety of PLAYERS.
Twitch based games appeal to me about as much as spending the day sleeping in a nest of brown recluse spiders. FUCK THAT. Which is exactly what I think of those kinds of games.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Debates in this thread aside, IF:
1- This game is a large presistent world.
2- Has no added subscruption (specifically for the PS3 in my case).
3- Has a decent population limit per server.
Then this game could be interesting. From other articles on this game it seems semi-sandboxy and not just a "shoot em up."
Here is an article that makes it seem sandboxy: http://www.gamebynight.com/?p=2319
Since it is a shoot em up, maybe it could educate the ignorant WoW masses (because I am sure the ignorant WoW masses want to play a MMO shoot em up) about the fun that sandbox elements could possess. (I like picking on WoW, sorry)
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.