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General: The Story of the Week
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood has looked over all the stories that came out this week with a focus on MMOs. While none jumped out immediately as a more all-encompassing story that captured the imagination of a host of readers, one certainly caught Jon's attention: Undead Labs' Richard Foge's thought that most of today's MMOs aren't much. Check out Jon's thoughts about that statement and then add a few of your own on the forums.
Going through this past week’s news offerings, there really wasn’t anything that stood out to grab me as the week’s biggest story. So instead, I turned my attention to the story that captured MY attention the most this week in the hopes that I’d be able to string together a few sentences that might entertain you folks this weekend.
The story that I came out with and that we’ll call our Story of the Week is one that comes out of Undead Labs.
Read more of The Story of the Week.
Comments
Please proofread your articles.
To a player that is more into action, MMORPGs would definitely seem to lack what makes a game a game. Foge doesn't seem to appreciate the differences between different types of games though.
Quite frankly we seen companies who tried to go the console mmo route and failed at it. Even turbine at one time was looking into consoles, for about 2 years the worked on something then poof, never heard anything else about it. then you run into folks like me. Married and the wife plays the games I do. Well your going to have to program that console to where both me and the wife can play at the same time using different accounts, yes thats going to be a huge issue.
I got serious questions about how much a console game can be an mmo, for the most part what I read it sounds more like a co-op. I already have a zombie co-op game its called left for dead, yes both of them.
Now lets get to the subject matter. A zombie mmo. Lets think really hard about this. We got a plague killing humans turning them into zombies. That means more zombies than humans or at least that is the way it normal goes, a group of humans trying to get to safe place. The main problem I see with this game is ok MMO, that means tons of humans, and that is your problem there, if you got tons of humans running around killing zombies then yes right there is a huge problem.
I just don't see how this can work, unless you go mega areas of zombies thus forcing tons of grouping to get through the day.
Oh well thats the way I see it. Two major problems first making a true mmo and not a co-op with a console, then the subject matter and the player base. Two very huge obsticles to overcome.
In short, i think it's a fail that just needs to launch to prove itself a failure.
I don't like developers giving my genre shit. Its like having a brother, you give your brother crap but if someone outside the family does it you smash them in the mouth with your size 12 Doc Martain combat boot.
These guys are releasing a console only game and dare to give a PC styled genre crap. To top it off this game their developing looks nothing more than a mix of Borderlands and Dead rising slapped together and their calling it a mmo?
Whatever... ill laugh when they crash and burn.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
talk is cheap. let them give it a shot. then we can have a chat.
Like I said in the other post, he bad mouths the existing MMO scene and then announces a zombie MMO on a console, can you just bath in the irony of such a statement?
First off, you need a keyboard to really play a MMO no matter what he says. The entire idea of a MMO is to communicate with others, otherwise you might as well just play single player fps or rpg games. Most consoles do not have keyboards, so most designers don't make that mandatory to play. Hence I question whether his game will actually be a MMO because the game will obviously not want to exclude those without keyboards.
He basically wanted to stir up controversy to get his game noticed, so he made a ridiculous statement sure to turn some heads. Hey if he wants to play the fool to get attention it is his business.
Comms can easily be done with a mic, no keyboard needed. Why do you think they're going with a shooter? No endless menus of spells to rummage through, no complex macro systems to worry about. Movement, couple of buttons for inventory and interaction and a trigger. Sounds like a very bland, watered down system that console users demand in the games they play. Most console gamers I know laugh at people that pay monthly to play a game. When putting this game up against Left4Dead/2 I don't see what they could possibly do to entice a player to spend cash every month to play it.
Jeff Strain is at the helm of this company and this game, he doesn't need to seek attention.
I can't believe this nutjob of a "developer" is the "Story of the Week." Why? Because he's obviously one of the many CLUELESS devs out there? That makes him "story of the week" worthy???
I need to write some arrogant piece of drivel so I can be poster of the week on MMORPG.com. Maybe I'll write an article about how posters should all use a certain style when they post, you know....use a lot of ACTION words and CAPS to express themselves, and anyone who doesn't do so is behind the times.
C'mon.....a zombie CONSOLE MMO???? And he thinks he's the gaming god's gift to gamers?
/facepalm
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Well I guess I get to say it again, but first; John you are obviously a really nice guy willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I am not.
So Mr. Foge's opinion is that MMOs today are "barely even games"
again I state my humble opion of Mr. Foge (who I have never heard of) he is "Barely even a developer".
In my mind Zombies have been done, and done, and done, and done. Perhaps he and his new console creation are after the 6 to 10 year olds who have been sheltered from the world flood of zombies by overprotective parents. Maybe the title can be Zombies Need Love Too.
or "Zombie Street" With a Big birdlike Zombie.
Sorry, I just have to lol at the guy. He did get a lot of time on this site though, maybe that was his intention.
All I can come up with as a snappy reply is "SIGH"
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
I rather agree that this zombie console thing is .... almost unmentionable. That being said, I would inspect my 12 years of playing MMOs and find that the essential ingredients of MMOs were developed in EQ1 (not just that game, but the time period around its launch), were homogenized for the masses in WoW, and very little innovation has occured since. The essential features of simplified combat, XP and loot grind, boss encounters, etc., seems to have gotten carved in stone.
So in a way I can see the point of view of the Zombie console thing guy. Unfortunately, I see nothing in what he is doing that vaguely resembles any useful step forward. Sigh.
Or perhaps instead of sigh I should have written, Ditto Wahala99. LOL.
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
Well here are my opinions. And that is all they are, just my point of vew.
For one, I'm not a horror fan or undead fan except for vampires. I don't see what the big deal is for zombies. They are not my thing at all.
I prefer mmorpgs and mmo's than console games. I've tried to get into console games and all they do is gather dust. They are very consticting when it comes to rpging and not as open concepted as online gaming. That's just what i feel about them. I have not played a good console game in years. Mind you i don't have the money to buy them either and most mmorps are free, Still the ones that I have bought i tend to sell back to the store cause they are boring. I don't think there is anything wrong with console gaming, I just don't feel they are my thing. Everyone has their prefrences.
The other thing is what makes an action mmorpg different from the average fantasy rpg? They both have fighting. What's the focus point. for the action ones? What makes it an "action " mmorpg? Just a question I was curious about?
I tend to like fantasy rpg's and have played many over the years. I like a good plot and story line to keep me interested in a game.
The end of my rant.
Considering he left NCSOFT in 2009, and its been almost 2 years hes been working at undead labs, and they are still no closer to what they started on 2 years ago. I think him and the guys at undead labs need to see some folks who wear white coats.
I just went to their website and took a good look around, there whole entire player base they are shooting are the folks who love zombies, you know the ones who go to parades and dress like zombies.
2 years of work on a console mmo, rofl. I know what I will not be buying any time soon. Then the enitre rant of if you dont like mmo's you will love this game rofl. No thanks.
You don't need a keyboard to play MMORPGs. Unlike on the PC, voice communication is pretty much the standard on the Xbox 360.
Uh, yeah, you do, because people don't always want to use voice communication. Guess you nailed pretty much why consoles haven't worked well for MMORPG's afterall.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've rarely seen game developers say bad things about the game they worked on. Career limiting, perhaps?
Not all of us want to play action games. And not all of us want to use a mike for every game interaction.
Glad he's not working on Guild Wars 2!
Regards,
mszv
I will say the man has balls to talk-the-talk but can he walk the walk, personnally i don't think so. If he does pull it out i don't see how they can charge the money required to service the mmo as console players already pay for on-line service except for a few Sony users since you can play for free on line.
Console players like zombie type games so i can see why he would go that route. Personnaly i can't see it being a true essence mmo, more like a single player type game with open world. Would like to see it happen but not even sure Sony can pull a rabbit that size out of the console hat.
He's wasting his time attacking the RPG genre. He should be trying to lure in the First Person Shooter crowd who has done more than nicely in the past years on consoles. Wait, is he going to ask for a monthly sub? If so, whoops.
About MMORPG on consoles, I think there will be a time where we'll see some good MMORPGs on those consoles. Their design is going to have to adapt to make it happen. I remember some forum discussions I had in 2003 where we were saying it would be impossible to play a FPS with a handle. It took a while but we all stand corrected today.
Lets see their game launch then they can lecture on whats wrong with MMO's.
As much as no one here wants to here it, Richard Foge is essentially correct. MMORPG's are always behind the curve in just about every way that a console games is, with the exception of their interconectivity. Graphically, they dont compare with many of the bargin-bin throw away games for PS3. The interfaces are nowhere near as clean and refined nor responsive. Gameplay isn't anywhere near as imaginative or daring.
You could argue that its due to their extensive development time, but with the amount of dollars these type of games bring in verses their console counterparts, and the amount of staff dedicated to them, and the prolonged shelf life they can carry with expansions, that's a pretty lame excuse. Basically it boils down to, "We could do it, but it would be expensive. Expensive and hard."
Maybe thats why the big game developers seem to run like the plague from MMORPGs. With the exception of Blizzard and maybe CCE, everyone else seems to fail at them lately. (SOE, Turbine, etc.) AAA console games rain down 3-4 times a month. Major MMORPGs drop what, twice a year? Maybe?
No one takes the chances in MMORPG's like they do in console games. (Granted it's a more expensive chance) Even WoW, the most succesful one to date isnt anything new conceptually, it's just a very refined form of its predecessors. Until then, they're always going to be more of a niche in the market; the ugly, bastard cousin, of their little console brothers.
...or due to having to account for the ridiculous number of possible scenarios that can exist in a massively multiplayer environment that are otherwise strictly controlled or limited in a single-player game or 2-16 player multiplayer console game. There is much more control over resources in the types of games he's comparing MMOs to.
Console games also have to only account for one processor speed and one GPU, and thus can be optimized and streamlined for it.
It's odd to see someone that has worked on such a great game as Guild Wars (which, btw, they make a point of stating is not an MMORPG) make such strange statements as in that blog. It seems like his view is that since MMOs aren't action games then they barely are games.
"What about MMOs? What if we replaced all the math with action? What if an MMO could feel like a kickass console game?"
Like any number of the recent releases from Dagonica to Vindictus?
"How about if you could actually dodge out of the way of enemy attacks? Not a skill that gives you an increased percentage to do some counter-math against the opponent’s formula, but an actual dodge-out-of-the-way that lets you duck just underneath the rotting grasp of an attacking zombie."
How about finding players that actually want that in their MMO? Personally, I'm all for it. I enjoyed it in Asheron's Call for years. However, many MMORPG players feels that such mechanics bypass, nullify or ignore the character progression or RPG portion of the MMORPG. It's not that devs can't create mechanics like that in an MMORPG, rather it isn't something there's been a lot of call for.
All that aside, I don't doubt Undead Labs will be able to make an incredibly immersive and engaging game for teams of 2-16 players in controlled environments.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
sounds fun & refreshing hope there able to make it work.
I think what people are often forgetting is that this ISN'T an RPG, it thus lacks the RPG in MMORPG. Not all MMOs are MMORPGs. This would be an MMOFPS. A shooter that you play with lots of people. This happens from the first-person, so emotes are largely unnecessary but still easy to add ( Team Fortress 2 does it! ) and communication can easily be handled by a mic (typing in any FPS to communicate is stressful and clearly not the design intent - oh unless you're dead and waiting to respawn). So the communicative issues really aren't issues for an MMOFPS. All it really will be is a FPS in an open environment. An interesting concept introducing a persistant world with "quests" where you accept a mission, go and kill a butt load of zombies in X area and get Y reward (such as a stat boost or an item - items are doable, Team Fortress 2 does it!). In fact. Mostly, my guess, is such a game would basically be Team Fortress 2 in a persistant world with zombies... So their innovation isn't nearly as intense as their claiming, but it also isn't a sin to all games like some above posters are claiming. Team Fortress 2 managed to combine loot, random drops, equipment, class system with the FPS environment successfully. It's a popular enough game. I'm guessing it's this crowd they'll be after.
That still as a co-op, not an MMORPG. I can play my zombie shooter for free all be we only get 4 folks in a group. A co-op is not an mmorpg.
Then you stil have the problem of households who have more than one person who plays online games. Your going to have to multiply that console by x folks and x tv's. Iknow you can get a 40 inch for about 700 bucks now days but where you going to hang all your tv's at.
That is complete nonsense and you know it. PC graphics are far superior to anything the consoles can do. Heck those graphic chips in those consoles are at least 5 years old if not older. I don't know what games you are playing, but visually the PC games make the console ones look sad, in most cases.
Console games take no chances, they run in a controlled environment with no freelancing to worry about, Piece of cake compared to programming for a MMO.
You need to get out and explore a bit before making rash statements like that!