Theres nothing wrong with negative opinions or stating you don't like something. The problem some people (including myself have) is saying this game will fail because of x reason. To me that doesn't help the project either. It's not stating what can be done to make it better, it just stating it will be bad.
Criticism is good when it comes with constructive ways to correct the problem.
....
I'm sorry, but that's just bullcrap. Criticism is not constructive, it's deconstructive. What you're talking about is advice and suggestion. Criticism does not need to focus on ways to correct a problem, because it does not function like part of the production. What it's good for is analysis, plain and simple. It's the producers' job to take good points out of it and turn it into something constructive.
So, yes, you can write something filled with negativity and only negativity, and that could still be valid criticism. It could also be made useful if so desired by the competent, but all that's merely a side effect, a separate process, because criticism is not written for the benefit of producers, it's written for the benefit of its readers. Otherwise you'd just be unpaid workforce for the production.
If there's a lot of negative criticism on a game that's in production, even if most of them unfounded (like I think is the case most of the time), it's the producers' job to take something of value out of it all and turn it into good results.
While I don't think you are wrong I think one should also be mindful enough to not waste resources constantly trying to appease people who have really no choice but to be against your product because of what they are trying to do with it. Alot of the things I see being complained about as far as this game are things that would be foolish to try and change up now, in general I hear the critics state that the game is too simple which translates to easy accessibility (something they are shooting for). In that case they have a choice either make the game something they never intended it to be (the SWG vet's dream game) or make the game they have always intended to make and hope those 300k or so gamers aren't so closed minded as to not give it a chance.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Criticism is just the act of evaluating someone work. usually it's negative as positive just says good job. Theres however two subsects of negative criticism. Theres constructive and deconstructive.
Example: someone makes a picture of a toilet but has got the proportions of the lid wrong, it looks weird.
The art teacher has two ways to go about fixing this problem. He or she has to critique the work to correct the problem. However there are two ways to go about this.
First: You got the lid wrong, thats not how you draw it, remember what i taught you and try again. This just makes the toilet lid look weird and would have people sliding off the edge if they tried to sit on it.
Second: This toilet lid looks odd and will be impossible to use in real life. Try sitting level with the seat and draw exactly how you see it not how you think it should look, take a few rough drawlings and get some advice from others on what they think. Make sure your adjusting for height and distance.
Example one is deconstructive, it's just telling the drawler they are doing it wrong and why it won't work. The second one is constructive it still says they are doing it wrong but it shows them how they can do it better and advice. This is what i was talking about. Saying the game looks bad fix it. is deconstructive criticism and does nothing to help. The dev is like, looks wrong to me but how do i fix it. The poster says your the dev you should know this already and the dev just sighs. Where as constructive criticism would be this looks bad because you have the character moving too stiffly, he should move at a bit of a sagger as his left feet bends outward as he brings up his foot down.
As i said constructive criticism i have no problem with. it's the deconstructive i do have a problem with, it's okay to say you don't like something but to say the dev is stupid for using this idea without telling us why is not helpful at all.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
It's pointless to post constructive criticism on this forum. Constructive criticism in aimed at developers and I've already done that when I was part of one of the test groups.
The comments I have made in this topic were just my general feel on the recent PvP video.
I'd say you have a misunderstanding of the concept of "constructive criticism."
Yes, criticism is analytical in nature (and could in-itself be called "deconstructive"), however what is meant by the phrase "constructive criticism" is criticism with content. The word criticism itself implies that you acknowledge and attempt to articulate issues with something. Pure opinions that offer no information about what parts of a project need improvement or why something is good or bad gives the producer nothing to work with, and are therefore, not even criticism by definition.
If you give an opinion such as "this is bad, this is going to fail, etc" and you want anyone to take it as something more than pure opinion, you are responsible for making an argument with substance.
That's not constructive criticism, that's the very definition of criticism.
You're right, and I apologize for failing to complete my thought.
Criticism by nature can be made into something helpful - all it needs to become constructive is to be interpreted, identified as to whether the issue is a real (and significant) one, and then have ways found to address that issue if necessary.
A pure opinion is not criticism and nothing can therefore be made out of it. If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize, but I took it as saying that pure opinion (such as "this game is going to fail") with no basis places some kind of responsibility on the producer to fix a problem.
If you only meant to say that critique (with content) need not be framed in a positive light, then we are in agreement.
The difference is, you haven't aleady decided to hate this game.
Being critical of something doesn't mean that I hate it. I love the Star Wars IP and I'm a pretty big BioWare fan. I want this game to be good because I want to play a Star Wars MMO. As of this moment, after the last few info releases, it doesn't look like I will be playing it. However, I am hoping that BioWare pulls off a miracle and turns this into a truly epic game so that I can truly let the "geek" out.
Perhaps I am being overly critical but that is simply because I expect a lot better that what we have seen from a development team with BioWare's track record and skill set.
But either way, don't take criticism so close to heart, it's not your game.
It's not your game either. But you should make your own game or write up a properly developed design document for everyone to dump their opinions on. Let's see if you are up to the task.
A critic doesn't have to make his own game to know whats wrong. Just as you don't have to be a gourmet cook to recognize a burnt steak. We don't have to share every critique. But negative critique is just as valid as postive one.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Theres nothing wrong with negative opinions or stating you don't like something. The problem some people (including myself have) is saying this game will fail because of x reason. To me that doesn't help the project either. It's not stating what can be done to make it better, it just stating it will be bad.
Criticism is good when it comes with constructive ways to correct the problem.
....
I'm sorry, but that's just bullcrap. Criticism is not constructive, it's deconstructive. What you're talking about is advice and suggestion. Criticism does not need to focus on ways to correct a problem, because it does not function like part of the production. What it's good for is analysis, plain and simple. It's the producers' job to take good points out of it and turn it into something constructive.
So, yes, you can write something filled with negativity and only negativity, and that could still be valid criticism. It could also be made useful if so desired by the competent, but all that's merely a side effect, a separate process, because criticism is not written for the benefit of producers, it's written for the benefit of its readers. Otherwise you'd just be unpaid workforce for the production.
If there's a lot of negative criticism on a game that's in production, even if most of them unfounded (like I think is the case most of the time), it's the producers' job to take something of value out of it all and turn it into good results.
Bollocks; you redefine a word to your personal suits. Thats like children starting to name tables chairs, chairs shoes and shoes noses just to re-define words for their private use. Criticism IS. It is always constructive by definition, otherwise it's not criticism, it's rant. Advise and suggest are just other words for the same. I mean, do we now fight over word definitions?
What will come next? Attacking a person's hairstyle to make his claims invalid? o.0
Why can't we not let the argument just stay as it is? Person A says MMO X will suck because XYZ, person B says otherwise, end of debate. Why this desire to convert or at least brand the other as "heretic"? Has any one ever actually won any of these word-plays? I wonder. You don't have to share the critique, but accept that anything CAN be critizised without the person critzising being a culprit, an idiot or a troll just because he hasn't the same opinion as you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I find Bioware's take on crafting to be very refreshing. It looks to me like a cross between EVE Online crafting/industry, a RTS and the standard mmo crafting concept. I like the idea of delegating tasks, changing my crafting prowess by "hiring" different companions with different skillsets, and the fact that progress is made while offline.
PVP looks fairly standard to me at this point. I'm definitely hoping that Bioware gives players real incentive to pvp without the feel of a grind.
This has been said several times before on this thread but I believe it is worth saying again: The character animations need to improve significantly.
There are so many talented animators out there that would kill for a chance to show their stuff on a high profile project like this. My question is, are the animations in the poor state they are currently because of shortcomings on their art team, or are we seeing a limitation of the game engine Bioware decided to adapt?
Very little info here, and look at the arguments it has caused. Fanboys ahoy!
So there will be scenario style pvp, that can go good or bad. In Warhammer scenario's were better than the actual game, which detracted from the main gameplay. So you can make these mini battles too good.
As to the crafting, automatic crafting is a bit of a cop out. You might as well just give people items if you have in game bots which do it for you. But we need to see more details, how much crafting do the bots do? I like the dipolmacy idea, interesting to see how that is going to be implemented.
So heres an idea leave tor blogs alone and go do something else. If u dont like the game or how it sounds just go away. Its not like your gonna ever buy this game.If u hate this game right now u are never gonna play it so why spew hate all over the forums about i?
Im serious why do u have to go put a damper on every post about tor. Its not your job to make me no play it. Its my job to decide what game i will or wont play what sounds good to me and what doesnt. Its not up to u to choose what the community as a whole enjoys or has fun doing as a whole.
Personally i perfer when pvp is in bg/s arenas and instanced. Open world pvp usually consists of 80s camping and killing level 20s for fun till other 80s show up to help them then they run like chickens so no real world pvp gets done anyways. Since the people who want world pvp are the ones who wanna game newbs and run like chickens when people there own level show up.
Pvp in this case is just one form bioware has stated like 100 times already there are multple kinds of pvp and given mythics history of pvp in there games like warhammer i dont think u will have to worry about this phase of the game. As for crafting all u do in most games is click a button and the game makes it for u.
At least this way u can do other stuff while u craft. Plus its like a small smidgen of the crafting info. So what if your companions do the crafting u still control what they craft and when just like any other game .
It didnt stop you from spamming your 2 sentince fanboy lines on gw2
If your a real sw fan thou this game should make you very angry in terms of lore just like swg did to us so many years ago.
#1 R2-D2 was no luke skywalkers pet. He was self aware the very first star wars that came out back in the 70s he was the main char. the frist one introduced and had one of the best parts in the movie.
#2 i dont wanna be just another human male of female with daddy abandonment issues like in all of biowares star wars games its the reason i didnt like ff10 you either wanna be a hero and stop crying like a girl or you want to save the earth not both. You either wanna find out who you are or take revenge its not both kotor2. You either strike back at the senete for pulling your string like a puppet or you dont. As far as story lines are going to go no matter what they say from kotor its good or bad the end. No promises of endgame guild interface to control territory or raid bosses no nothing were just supposed to be like omfg it has dated 13 graphics there trying to pass off as cartoony?
#3 now im a game critic and im waiting on the game just like anyone else but teh game has missing stuff in it that makes me mad. Like space combat and a multiple number of non-humanoid races that its older version swg already had. You cant turn around almost 10 years later and say heres a game with everything you did right wrong and everything you did wrong right. MY opinion ill just have to wait and see but for real people no game is perfect and u cant bash people for there opinions thats why this section is here its not the GLORY SECTION FOR FANBOYS ITS DISCUSSION FOR EVERYONE.
So heres an idea leave tor blogs alone and go do something else. If u dont like the game or how it sounds just go away. Its not like your gonna ever buy this game.If u hate this game right now u are never gonna play it so why spew hate all over the forums about i?
Im serious why do u have to go put a damper on every post about tor. Its not your job to make me no play it. Its my job to decide what game i will or wont play what sounds good to me and what doesnt. Its not up to u to choose what the community as a whole enjoys or has fun doing as a whole.
Personally i perfer when pvp is in bg/s arenas and instanced. Open world pvp usually consists of 80s camping and killing level 20s for fun till other 80s show up to help them then they run like chickens so no real world pvp gets done anyways. Since the people who want world pvp are the ones who wanna game newbs and run like chickens when people there own level show up.
Pvp in this case is just one form bioware has stated like 100 times already there are multple kinds of pvp and given mythics history of pvp in there games like warhammer i dont think u will have to worry about this phase of the game. As for crafting all u do in most games is click a button and the game makes it for u.
At least this way u can do other stuff while u craft. Plus its like a small smidgen of the crafting info. So what if your companions do the crafting u still control what they craft and when just like any other game .
It didnt stop you from spamming your 2 sentince fanboy lines on gw2
If your a real sw fan thou this game should make you very angry in terms of lore just like swg did to us so many years ago.
#1 R2-D2 was no luke skywalkers pet. He was self aware the very first star wars that came out back in the 70s he was the main char. the frist one introduced and had one of the best parts in the movie.
#2i dont wanna be just another human male of female with daddy abandonment issues like in all of biowares star wars games its the reason i didnt like ff10 you either wanna be a hero and stop crying like a girl or you want to save the earth not both. You either wanna find out who you are or take revenge its not both kotor2. You either strike back at the senete for pulling your string like a puppet or you dont. As far as story lines are going to go no matter what they say from kotor its good or bad the end. No promises of endgame guild interface to control territory or raid bosses no nothing were just supposed to be like omfg it has dated 13 graphics there trying to pass off as cartoony?
#3 now im a game critic and im waiting on the game just like anyone else but teh game has missing stuff in it that makes me mad. Like space combat and a multiple number of non-humanoid races that its older version swg already had. You cant turn around almost 10 years later and say heres a game with everything you did right wrong and everything you did wrong right. MY opinion ill just have to wait and see but for real people no game is perfect and u cant bash people for there opinions thats why this section is here its not the GLORY SECTION FOR FANBOYS ITS DISCUSSION FOR EVERYONE.
Isn't that the Luke Skywalker story? heh but anyway/ I don't mind critics, I have some questions about the crafting myself, but to see the same people bashing every little thing on the SWTOR forums gets rather annoying. Guess some people have too much time on their hands to post about a game they have said they are not interested in.
Bioware and specifically EA is in the business to make money. They look at what has been successful in this genre and proceed to build on that. Hence what you are see is basically Wow in space. That is not a bad thing, but it also does nothing to add to the genre. Every time they release more information it just reinforces that view.
On to the imbeciles who use the word 'hater'. The correct word is critic and there is nothing wrong with criticizing Biowares choices. The word hate is far too strong a word to use in this situation. Look up the definition for hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest
Now let's look at the definition of criticize:
to censure or find fault with; to judge or discuss the merits and faults of.
It is rather obvious which word is of better use here. See now you have expanded your vocabulary.
These forums are here to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of a game. If posters were only to post about the positive, it would not be a forum, it would be a praisathon. If you can't stand people who criticize, why do you read forum posts, that is what a forum is all about, seeing the good and the bad?
Do not let anyone define for you what is fun and what is not......Yes things will suck and not live up to your standards if you set your expectations too high........Yes dragging a dead horse through the mud on these forums will do just that, still leave you with a dead muddy horse....I believe that Bioware and Lucas Arts have made winners and losers, but realize they want success.....I trust that the game will be entertaining and worth a purchase...Your gonna live out your star wars fantasy in their world, not the other way around.... It is what it is...It will be built to their vision, not yours.......See you in-game
Bioware and specifically EA is in the business to make money. They look at what has been successful in this genre and proceed to build on that. Hence what you are see is basically Wow in space. That is not a bad thing, but it also does nothing to add to the genre. Every time they release more information it just reinforces that view.
On to the imbeciles who use the word 'hater'. The correct word is critic and there is nothing wrong with criticizing Biowares choices. The word hate is far too strong a word to use in this situation. Look up the definition for hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest
Now let's look at the definition of criticize:
to censure or find fault with; to judge or discuss the merits and faults of.
It is rather obvious which word is of better use here. See now you have expanded your vocabulary.
These forums are here to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of a game. If posters were only to post about the positive, it would not be a forum, it would be a praisathon. If you can't stand people who criticize, why do you read forum posts, that is what a forum is all about, seeing the good and the bad?
yeah we would use the word critic if all they did was critic the game about it's faults. However in enough cases this does not occur. When we the fans of the game start trying to shine the game in a positive light we get branded with the title of fanboi or blind sheep or what ever have you title that seems apporiate for the time.
Then it goes off on how BW makes bad games with horrible story lines how it looks like a clone of another game. When a person takes everything about a game and puts it in a bad light, they are not critique the game they are just hating on it. While in most cases critizing the game is the right word it isn't always. The word hate gets used when the word fanboi gets thrown at the fans.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Bioware and specifically EA is in the business to make money. They look at what has been successful in this genre and proceed to build on that. Hence what you are see is basically Wow in space. That is not a bad thing, but it also does nothing to add to the genre. Every time they release more information it just reinforces that view.
On to the imbeciles who use the word 'hater'. The correct word is critic and there is nothing wrong with criticizing Biowares choices. The word hate is far too strong a word to use in this situation. Look up the definition for hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest
Now let's look at the definition of criticize:
to censure or find fault with; to judge or discuss the merits and faults of.
It is rather obvious which word is of better use here. See now you have expanded your vocabulary.
These forums are here to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of a game. If posters were only to post about the positive, it would not be a forum, it would be a praisathon. If you can't stand people who criticize, why do you read forum posts, that is what a forum is all about, seeing the good and the bad?
The thing they add to the genre is the enhanced quest mechanics that should provide a deeper story immersion: namely the VO and cutscene presentation, the Class Quests, World Arcs, World Quests and your quest choices having lasting and different consequences.
For the rest, I agree that it's more variations and improvements on current MMO features, namely the Companions, the crafting and the player ships and such. But that also applies to other upcoming MMORPG's: without the rifts there's only the class diversity that's somewhat different, but not that revolutionary that we haven't seen it before. The same applies to a TERA outside of the combat mechanics.
Regarding the subject of 'hater' and criticism, I think people in general should refrain from namecalling as 'hater' or 'fanboi' or 'troll', unless it's evident of someone's posting history that someone clearly is only able to see one side of the fence and unable to see or comprehend the other side of the fence.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I liked your comments. The negativity will never go away because there is no possible way to make everyone happy...there are parts of SWTOR that I, based on the limited information, don't look forward to but, they are not making the game specifically for me and me alone, so I embrace the diversity the game has to offer thus far. I appreciate that some don't like something about the game and I like to hear why they don't, but to those that actively campaign against something without complete information that segments of the genre will most assuredly enjoy only strengthens my resolve to try the game out...so please keep up the negativity (if only it was constructive, thinking about a post I saw where someone said that the space element would cause the game to be an epic failure, I don't remember the exact words, but really? No other element of the game will provide a fun environment?) as I read in the paper once in an article about the negative exploits of an actor, "...any publicity is good publicity...", can't say that I entirely agree with that, but in the case of MMOs, it has led me to some great MMOs.
Bioware and specifically EA is in the business to make money. They look at what has been successful in this genre and proceed to build on that. Hence what you are see is basically Wow in space. That is not a bad thing, but it also does nothing to add to the genre. Every time they release more information it just reinforces that view.
On to the imbeciles who use the word 'hater'. The correct word is critic and there is nothing wrong with criticizing Biowares choices. The word hate is far too strong a word to use in this situation. Look up the definition for hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest
Now let's look at the definition of criticize:
to censure or find fault with; to judge or discuss the merits and faults of.
It is rather obvious which word is of better use here. See now you have expanded your vocabulary.
These forums are here to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of a game. If posters were only to post about the positive, it would not be a forum, it would be a praisathon. If you can't stand people who criticize, why do you read forum posts, that is what a forum is all about, seeing the good and the bad?
The thing they add to the genre is the enhanced quest mechanics that should provide a deeper story immersion: namely the VO and cutscene presentation, the Class Quests, World Arcs, World Quests and your quest choices having lasting and different consequences.
For the rest, I agree that it's more variations and improvements on current MMO features, namely the Companions, the crafting and the player ships and such. But that also applies to other upcoming MMORPG's: without the rifts there's only the class diversity that's somewhat different, but not that revolutionary that we haven't seen it before. The same applies to a TERA outside of the combat mechanics.
Regarding the subject of 'hater' and criticism, I think people in general should refrain from namecalling as 'hater' or 'fanboi' or 'troll', unless it's evident of someone's posting history that someone clearly is only able to see one side of the fence and unable to see or comprehend the other side of the fence.
I agree on both accounts. Let the name calling be, both sides.
I am much looking forward to the companion. If done well, a companion with interesting comments could REALY enhance the gameplay experience. Thinking of memorable chars like Minsc, Kreia or HK-47. That surely can lighten up the "grind" - which of course TOR like every MMO will and must have.
Man, I really would want to play it now! ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It was great to get some info on the crafting. I just hope the items you will be able to make will be of some importance/value for the time you put into it. The crafting along with the war zones opens this game up to so many more players. I cant wait to play!
Personally, I am really looking forward to an organized PvP system instead of the stuff I have tried in my current game, City of Heroes. Still though, they did say this is only ONE form of PvP that will be available so it will be interesting to see what else will be done for PvP. Myself I am hoping for Starship PvP. That would be Awesome.
As for the crafting . . . I really don't see what difference it makes if you collect the junk and craft or you order your companion to do it. Either way it is getting done. Also, since they have stated that more info is to come on crafting, something tells me that your own character will still be collecting the really important stuff and your companion gets the minor stuff.
All in all, this looks to be a fun game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
How can this be a WoW clone? That implies that WoW was the FIRST ever game to have MMO capabillity and the first ever to have PvP. I played several games way back in the 90s that were MMORPGs AND had PvP, both in open world and in separate areas. Just because there are basically two ways of having PvP in a MMORPG doesn't mean that any game that chooses to use arenas is a clone of WoW. Simple fact is, there are no other ways of doing PvP without low levels getting killed every 5 minutes by pathetic high level players with no lives of their own who are so unbelievably inssecure they have to kill people who've just started playing. Yes, I have been in the situation where people did it to me, and then I was in the situation where I killed high level players for doing it. Being at the bottom was annoying and being at the top was time wasting for me, but something that has to be done, unfortunately, otherwise people just stop playing.
If you can think of another, possibly better way, to write PvP into an MMORPG, why aren't you out there writing the game yourself?
Comments
While I don't think you are wrong I think one should also be mindful enough to not waste resources constantly trying to appease people who have really no choice but to be against your product because of what they are trying to do with it. Alot of the things I see being complained about as far as this game are things that would be foolish to try and change up now, in general I hear the critics state that the game is too simple which translates to easy accessibility (something they are shooting for). In that case they have a choice either make the game something they never intended it to be (the SWG vet's dream game) or make the game they have always intended to make and hope those 300k or so gamers aren't so closed minded as to not give it a chance.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Criticism is just the act of evaluating someone work. usually it's negative as positive just says good job. Theres however two subsects of negative criticism. Theres constructive and deconstructive.
Example: someone makes a picture of a toilet but has got the proportions of the lid wrong, it looks weird.
The art teacher has two ways to go about fixing this problem. He or she has to critique the work to correct the problem. However there are two ways to go about this.
First: You got the lid wrong, thats not how you draw it, remember what i taught you and try again. This just makes the toilet lid look weird and would have people sliding off the edge if they tried to sit on it.
Second: This toilet lid looks odd and will be impossible to use in real life. Try sitting level with the seat and draw exactly how you see it not how you think it should look, take a few rough drawlings and get some advice from others on what they think. Make sure your adjusting for height and distance.
Example one is deconstructive, it's just telling the drawler they are doing it wrong and why it won't work. The second one is constructive it still says they are doing it wrong but it shows them how they can do it better and advice. This is what i was talking about. Saying the game looks bad fix it. is deconstructive criticism and does nothing to help. The dev is like, looks wrong to me but how do i fix it. The poster says your the dev you should know this already and the dev just sighs. Where as constructive criticism would be this looks bad because you have the character moving too stiffly, he should move at a bit of a sagger as his left feet bends outward as he brings up his foot down.
As i said constructive criticism i have no problem with. it's the deconstructive i do have a problem with, it's okay to say you don't like something but to say the dev is stupid for using this idea without telling us why is not helpful at all.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
It's pointless to post constructive criticism on this forum. Constructive criticism in aimed at developers and I've already done that when I was part of one of the test groups.
The comments I have made in this topic were just my general feel on the recent PvP video.
You're right, and I apologize for failing to complete my thought.
Criticism by nature can be made into something helpful - all it needs to become constructive is to be interpreted, identified as to whether the issue is a real (and significant) one, and then have ways found to address that issue if necessary.
A pure opinion is not criticism and nothing can therefore be made out of it. If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize, but I took it as saying that pure opinion (such as "this game is going to fail") with no basis places some kind of responsibility on the producer to fix a problem.
If you only meant to say that critique (with content) need not be framed in a positive light, then we are in agreement.
A critic doesn't have to make his own game to know whats wrong. Just as you don't have to be a gourmet cook to recognize a burnt steak. We don't have to share every critique. But negative critique is just as valid as postive one.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Bollocks; you redefine a word to your personal suits. Thats like children starting to name tables chairs, chairs shoes and shoes noses just to re-define words for their private use. Criticism IS. It is always constructive by definition, otherwise it's not criticism, it's rant. Advise and suggest are just other words for the same. I mean, do we now fight over word definitions?
What will come next? Attacking a person's hairstyle to make his claims invalid? o.0
Why can't we not let the argument just stay as it is? Person A says MMO X will suck because XYZ, person B says otherwise, end of debate. Why this desire to convert or at least brand the other as "heretic"? Has any one ever actually won any of these word-plays? I wonder. You don't have to share the critique, but accept that anything CAN be critizised without the person critzising being a culprit, an idiot or a troll just because he hasn't the same opinion as you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Getting back on topic...
I find Bioware's take on crafting to be very refreshing. It looks to me like a cross between EVE Online crafting/industry, a RTS and the standard mmo crafting concept. I like the idea of delegating tasks, changing my crafting prowess by "hiring" different companions with different skillsets, and the fact that progress is made while offline.
PVP looks fairly standard to me at this point. I'm definitely hoping that Bioware gives players real incentive to pvp without the feel of a grind.
This has been said several times before on this thread but I believe it is worth saying again: The character animations need to improve significantly.
There are so many talented animators out there that would kill for a chance to show their stuff on a high profile project like this. My question is, are the animations in the poor state they are currently because of shortcomings on their art team, or are we seeing a limitation of the game engine Bioware decided to adapt?
Can we get back and stay on topic now?
Very little info here, and look at the arguments it has caused. Fanboys ahoy!
So there will be scenario style pvp, that can go good or bad. In Warhammer scenario's were better than the actual game, which detracted from the main gameplay. So you can make these mini battles too good.
As to the crafting, automatic crafting is a bit of a cop out. You might as well just give people items if you have in game bots which do it for you. But we need to see more details, how much crafting do the bots do? I like the dipolmacy idea, interesting to see how that is going to be implemented.
It didnt stop you from spamming your 2 sentince fanboy lines on gw2
If your a real sw fan thou this game should make you very angry in terms of lore just like swg did to us so many years ago.
#1 R2-D2 was no luke skywalkers pet. He was self aware the very first star wars that came out back in the 70s he was the main char. the frist one introduced and had one of the best parts in the movie.
#2 i dont wanna be just another human male of female with daddy abandonment issues like in all of biowares star wars games its the reason i didnt like ff10 you either wanna be a hero and stop crying like a girl or you want to save the earth not both. You either wanna find out who you are or take revenge its not both kotor2. You either strike back at the senete for pulling your string like a puppet or you dont. As far as story lines are going to go no matter what they say from kotor its good or bad the end. No promises of endgame guild interface to control territory or raid bosses no nothing were just supposed to be like omfg it has dated 13 graphics there trying to pass off as cartoony?
#3 now im a game critic and im waiting on the game just like anyone else but teh game has missing stuff in it that makes me mad. Like space combat and a multiple number of non-humanoid races that its older version swg already had. You cant turn around almost 10 years later and say heres a game with everything you did right wrong and everything you did wrong right. MY opinion ill just have to wait and see but for real people no game is perfect and u cant bash people for there opinions thats why this section is here its not the GLORY SECTION FOR FANBOYS ITS DISCUSSION FOR EVERYONE.
Isn't that the Luke Skywalker story? heh but anyway/ I don't mind critics, I have some questions about the crafting myself, but to see the same people bashing every little thing on the SWTOR forums gets rather annoying. Guess some people have too much time on their hands to post about a game they have said they are not interested in.
In Bioware we trust!
So first people moan and biatch about informations shortage . that bioware isn´t working on there community .
Now they start to release aspect and information that finalise the pictures .
Look its REALLY A WOW CLONE !!!
Now hate WoW love WoW sorry currently Swtor wants to be a polished wowclone with the benefit of what bioware does best.
Stories romances and interactions with your companions . aside from interaction with real people .
So if you cannot understand what this game is now , you will never understand , its targeted for mass audiences .
So everything is maybe not so dumbed down yet to wow cataclysme level , but it will be ease of play .
Same story with pvp , they will see what pvp system is the most popular and work from there on .
Oh look here wow pvp is the most popular cause it has none pvp getting involved into pvp .
People playing arena , even if they are terrible at it .
Sorry i think at this moment people should already get the general idea of the game .
If they dont like it , sadly nothing you can do , but truth is for most people WoW with lightsaber is enough .
Cause they understand what the concept is . no matter how you going to moan or argue about it .
Thats what most people at this moment need , real solid information some pieces we like , others we dont .
But atleast you know what the game is about .
LOL! It look a bit silly with only 8 vs 8. =D
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Bioware and specifically EA is in the business to make money. They look at what has been successful in this genre and proceed to build on that. Hence what you are see is basically Wow in space. That is not a bad thing, but it also does nothing to add to the genre. Every time they release more information it just reinforces that view.
On to the imbeciles who use the word 'hater'. The correct word is critic and there is nothing wrong with criticizing Biowares choices. The word hate is far too strong a word to use in this situation. Look up the definition for hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest
Now let's look at the definition of criticize:
to censure or find fault with; to judge or discuss the merits and faults of.
It is rather obvious which word is of better use here. See now you have expanded your vocabulary.
These forums are here to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of a game. If posters were only to post about the positive, it would not be a forum, it would be a praisathon. If you can't stand people who criticize, why do you read forum posts, that is what a forum is all about, seeing the good and the bad?
Do not let anyone define for you what is fun and what is not......Yes things will suck and not live up to your standards if you set your expectations too high........Yes dragging a dead horse through the mud on these forums will do just that, still leave you with a dead muddy horse....I believe that Bioware and Lucas Arts have made winners and losers, but realize they want success.....I trust that the game will be entertaining and worth a purchase...Your gonna live out your star wars fantasy in their world, not the other way around.... It is what it is...It will be built to their vision, not yours.......See you in-game
PVP Sounds horrible.
yeah we would use the word critic if all they did was critic the game about it's faults. However in enough cases this does not occur. When we the fans of the game start trying to shine the game in a positive light we get branded with the title of fanboi or blind sheep or what ever have you title that seems apporiate for the time.
Then it goes off on how BW makes bad games with horrible story lines how it looks like a clone of another game. When a person takes everything about a game and puts it in a bad light, they are not critique the game they are just hating on it. While in most cases critizing the game is the right word it isn't always. The word hate gets used when the word fanboi gets thrown at the fans.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The thing they add to the genre is the enhanced quest mechanics that should provide a deeper story immersion: namely the VO and cutscene presentation, the Class Quests, World Arcs, World Quests and your quest choices having lasting and different consequences.
For the rest, I agree that it's more variations and improvements on current MMO features, namely the Companions, the crafting and the player ships and such. But that also applies to other upcoming MMORPG's: without the rifts there's only the class diversity that's somewhat different, but not that revolutionary that we haven't seen it before. The same applies to a TERA outside of the combat mechanics.
Regarding the subject of 'hater' and criticism, I think people in general should refrain from namecalling as 'hater' or 'fanboi' or 'troll', unless it's evident of someone's posting history that someone clearly is only able to see one side of the fence and unable to see or comprehend the other side of the fence.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I liked your comments. The negativity will never go away because there is no possible way to make everyone happy...there are parts of SWTOR that I, based on the limited information, don't look forward to but, they are not making the game specifically for me and me alone, so I embrace the diversity the game has to offer thus far. I appreciate that some don't like something about the game and I like to hear why they don't, but to those that actively campaign against something without complete information that segments of the genre will most assuredly enjoy only strengthens my resolve to try the game out...so please keep up the negativity (if only it was constructive, thinking about a post I saw where someone said that the space element would cause the game to be an epic failure, I don't remember the exact words, but really? No other element of the game will provide a fun environment?) as I read in the paper once in an article about the negative exploits of an actor, "...any publicity is good publicity...", can't say that I entirely agree with that, but in the case of MMOs, it has led me to some great MMOs.
I agree on both accounts. Let the name calling be, both sides.
I am much looking forward to the companion. If done well, a companion with interesting comments could REALY enhance the gameplay experience. Thinking of memorable chars like Minsc, Kreia or HK-47. That surely can lighten up the "grind" - which of course TOR like every MMO will and must have.
Man, I really would want to play it now! ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It was great to get some info on the crafting. I just hope the items you will be able to make will be of some importance/value for the time you put into it. The crafting along with the war zones opens this game up to so many more players. I cant wait to play!
Personally, I am really looking forward to an organized PvP system instead of the stuff I have tried in my current game, City of Heroes. Still though, they did say this is only ONE form of PvP that will be available so it will be interesting to see what else will be done for PvP. Myself I am hoping for Starship PvP. That would be Awesome.
As for the crafting . . . I really don't see what difference it makes if you collect the junk and craft or you order your companion to do it. Either way it is getting done. Also, since they have stated that more info is to come on crafting, something tells me that your own character will still be collecting the really important stuff and your companion gets the minor stuff.
All in all, this looks to be a fun game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Why is it every time I read about TOR, I become more and more convinced it that it is just a WoW clone?
Bioware makes really great RPg games, so I really hope this game turns out better than I expect it to be.
How can this be a WoW clone? That implies that WoW was the FIRST ever game to have MMO capabillity and the first ever to have PvP. I played several games way back in the 90s that were MMORPGs AND had PvP, both in open world and in separate areas. Just because there are basically two ways of having PvP in a MMORPG doesn't mean that any game that chooses to use arenas is a clone of WoW. Simple fact is, there are no other ways of doing PvP without low levels getting killed every 5 minutes by pathetic high level players with no lives of their own who are so unbelievably inssecure they have to kill people who've just started playing. Yes, I have been in the situation where people did it to me, and then I was in the situation where I killed high level players for doing it. Being at the bottom was annoying and being at the top was time wasting for me, but something that has to be done, unfortunately, otherwise people just stop playing.
If you can think of another, possibly better way, to write PvP into an MMORPG, why aren't you out there writing the game yourself?