Now that I think of it... I don't really want World of Warcraft to die... Because if it does the rest of the mmo world will be flooded with WoW's nastalgic and constantly reminiscing playerbase, just going on and on about how it used to be. It's allready like that with vanilla players, can't even begin to imagine how it will be in the end.
Seriously, that could happen, but like people said, whats most popular is usually most hated as well, just because its well known by a larger group of people who have an opinion they want/have to share.
"You don't have much choice when trouble's riding your back so tight it makes the leather squeak. Sometimes you outsmart it, sometimes you outfight it, and sometimes you just have to outrun it... full throttle."
I dont want a single, or multiple WoW Killers. While I do understand that its position at the top of the pile is stagnating progress, if one (or multiple) games came along with enough polish and detail that would put a sever enough dent in the WoW juggernaut, and cause it to be shut down, then the WoW community would spread like a virus into each and every other game available. Devouring it like locust as they search for the next Easymode ultracasual Everyone gets a medal for attending achievment Lowest Common Denominator wipe their backsides game to plant themselves in. I would not wish that upon the rest of the MMO community, no matter what I think of a game, I would not wish upon it a community of WoW refugees.
I say, make a game good, with polish and creativity, and let those that enjoy it come along, dont try to aim for the sky and base your business plan on luring away millions of WoW subs, slowly erode WoW's playerbase with clever design, polish, and good customer relations, in time, the behemoth will fall, and by building a foundation of trust and polished gameplay, you stand in a position where you can finally grow. This retarded view of game developers (Sorry, its more than likely the publishing houses looking for MASSIVE PROFIT MARGINS!!!) by aiming for the sky and blowing off their toes by delivering a poor copy is disturbing, couple that with the deadlines and the big producer forcing the game into early release which does far more damage, and just aiming for box sales is a woeful trend. WoW will remain at the top of the pile as long as this business practice continues, and frankly, they deserve it. While it may have been the philosophy for Blizzard "its done when its done", and now its more of "Get as much done before Activision sets a release date" they have garnered enough support and goodwill over the years to sit at the top of the pile.
I was going to make a bigger post but will just point to the guy above me. I don't want a WoW killer as the community from WoW is full of immature casual dicks that wouldn't know a good MMO if it came along and punched them in the face. If you kill WoW that community will spread and jump onto the new game which will end up all the worse for it. What I want is a good MMO to come along, not a casual themepark playground with a linear path through the environment, but back to basics EverQuest style adventuring with large open areas, many places to visit and level at regardless of current level, and a community that actually cares for each other and enjoy grouping over soloing and being the 'uber chuck norris ninja badass'.
The "if you don't then keep it to yourself" line begged me to answer anyway.
I DON'T.
Not that I don't dislike WoW, I do, but purely because I don't enjoy it. Everyone else here seems to hate it based on principle? I'm not sure why people are so quick to spurn the fun of others, but WoW like...sucked up the casual gamer pool and gave them a home so they can stop invading your 'hardcore' games. I thought that's what people wanted, anyway
I feel like a lot of the people that have issue with WOW's model on principle aren't doing so to intentionally pee on other people's parade, but do so because its turned the once unique genere into nothing more but a "connected" single player experience. While it might be fun for solo / casual type of gamers to now be able to occasionally show off all the crap they got for their toon while soloing.......its not so fun for the people who joined MMORPGs in the late 90s because they wanted a challenging virutual world experience.
I'm not sure why people blame WoW for the failure of other games. Blame the players who got lazy thanks to WoW, don't blame WoW itself. Oh and the companies that seem to hang off of Blizz's nuts rather than stand up for their own mantra and ideas. They deserve blame too, yestheydo.
Why would I blame the players? The majority of them are former console or FPS gamers that like solo friendly / casual game experiences. Bizzard has removed the barriers to entry that formerly kept these people playing console & FPS games and MMORPG gamers playing MMORPGs. The rub is when you mix the two very different crowds and try to please them all....you end up truely satisfying none.
I don't even have ill will towards Blizzard for WOW's success. Like you correctly pointed out, these companies are in the business to make money first and foremost....they do so by creating a quality product or service. I'm just saying that a consequence of Blizzard's "Big Tent" appraoch to MMORPG gaming has lead to a lack of innovation in the industry (outside of F2P model) and has actually degenerated MMORPG gaming to become more about personal (solo) experiences with ability to connect with others instead of being driven by cooperation and team effort.
Basically, people forget that these are businesses, that's all. The anti-wow-style games don't do well because people don't feel like grinding or losing loot or any of the etc., stuff that made gaming feel like a chore (to them). The games that have come since, are capitalizing on those desires. If and when gamers as a whole suddenly decide they want to ruff and tuff it out again, games will change to reflect that sentiment. Change starts at home
I have to disagree. You essentially have 2 main crowds in the current MMO gaming industry. New wave MMO gamers who formerly were single player / casual gamers wont buy into the traditional MMORPG model because its not their cup of tea (probably the same reason they weren't interested in those games when they first came out).
The old school MMO gamers haven't crowned games like Mortal Online and Darkfall because AAA dev companies won't touch them with a 10 foot pole unless they are a themepark type MMO that can pull a substantial part of the new MMO marketbase that WOW currently has. End result is these indie dev companies with poor budgets and lack of resources that yield half finished games and outdated technology. i didnt like MO because they rule set on paper was crap.....it was because it was using a buggy glitched 3D engine that Lineage 2 used in 2004 and half the features it talked about wasn't in the game.
I'm hoping for a larger company to finally stray from the WoW concept and make something with some innovative concepts. For me, a "WoW killer" is a MMO that will have success with being different than WoW. Nothing against WoW or WoW fans, but I want "new" MMOs, not the same old!
I think people mean many things when they say they want a "WoW killer".
For me it means a game that will finnaly match WoW in its quality and will be original and innovative enough to draw the crowds attention. Why do i want it? Because i would like to experience another "WoW" moment before i die. Seriously... :P
There are MMO games that are "better" then wow. But they mostly have a niche appeal. Something is always missing in the formula... I think they should just stop looking for that formula and start making their own games. Screw the wowo numbers already... Blizz didn't plan such a success and neither should others.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
If it could be guaranteed that the WoW fans would drop this genre all together and never pick it up, NOT ONE! then I'd be willing to kill wow. Given the reality however if I killed WoW today, that whole playerbase would have to go somewhere and it would then corrupt any and all other games with their constant bleating claiming "this is too hard" and thus creating yet another era in which the mass slaughter of mmorpg's is continued with wild abandon.
Here's an idea. Lets all make our own genre and name it something that the WoW playerbase would find incredibly distasteful. We could use this to insulate our games from their influence.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I was going to make a bigger post but will just point to the guy above me. I don't want a WoW killer as the community from WoW is full of immature casual dicks that wouldn't know a good MMO if it came along and punched them in the face. If you kill WoW that community will spread and jump onto the new game which will end up all the worse for it. What I want is a good MMO to come along, not a casual themepark playground with a linear path through the environment, but back to basics EverQuest style adventuring with large open areas, many places to visit and level at regardless of current level, and a community that actually cares for each other and enjoy grouping over soloing and being the 'uber chuck norris ninja badass'.
Pretty much sums it up what i am thinking. Because of this, i hope WoW will continue to exist for a long, long time. (which it will do anyway). I just wish the game wouldn´t be all over the place, no matter what game site i visit i find some WoW related article or some quotes from the lousy Devs. Or that so many people always have to compare other mmo´s with wow, it´s annoying to me.
I think people mean many things when they say they want a "WoW killer".
For me it means a game that will finnaly match WoW in its quality and will be original and innovative enough to draw the crowds attention. Why do i want it? Because i would like to experience another "WoW" moment before i die. Seriously... :P
There are MMO games that are "better" then wow. But they mostly have a niche appeal. Something is always missing in the formula... I think they should just stop looking for that formula and start making their own games. Screw the wowo numbers already... Blizz didn't plan such a success and neither should others.
I agree but the reality of the situation now is that you have 12+ million subscribers paying for a WOW type of MMORPG. Unless you can appeal to a substantial part of that market base (who by the way aren't your typical traditonal MMORPGrs), no AAA rated development company will give them the time of day.
Polished MMORPGs are becoming more expensive to develop / produce and the market on the whole is becoming WAY more competitive than the MMORPG industry was even 5 years ago. How much did Star Wars: KOTOR cost??? 300-400 MILLION DOLLARS? Think about that for a second, the cost of developing a complete & polished MMORPG with cutting edge graphics cost as much to make as a major Box Hit. For comparison purposes....Avatar had a 500 million dollar budget.
Couple that with a 3-4 year development cycle before you earn one red cent......the EAs & NCSofts of the world aren't exactly inclined to take a chance on something different....much less make a MMORPG that is more akin to the sandbox virtual worlds Ultima Online &, to a certain extent, EQ had.
In addition to having to compete with the likes of WOW, a new game (who presumbably would be appealing to casual gamer types) will have to compete with all other casual entertainment venues.....including one of the hundreds of available F2P MMORPGs, console games, FPS games, and yes....even social media & iPhone games.
When MMORPG games were niche based and not mainstream......developers didn't have to worry about Mario Bros. eating into their Ultima Online time. A very specific kind of gamer went to MMORPGs because they offered something that you couldn't get from other game generes. Not the case anymore.
As long as WoW is the epitome of Return On Investment, game designers will be told by studio managers to make their MMO, or some element of their MMO, like WoW.
I hope there is a sandbox WoW killer with robots, lazers, spaceships, full loot PvP, no classes, no levels, and complete customization of the game world. Then everybody can go and try and copy THAT game, and I'll be happy.
I personally don't like where Blizzard as a developer is headed and feel they need to be brought back down into reality. Everything is just coming so easy for them right now and you can't create Diamonds without a sh!t load of pressure.
I just wish people weren't so brainwashed to buy everything their favorite developers make. This isn't just a Blizzard issue, look at games like Call of Duty they release practically the same game every year and charge outrageous prices for 3 maps but these people eat it up like candy.
This looks like a huge bash on Activision which I truly do despise (Bobby Kottick what a douche) but I don't think a little misfortune would hurt Blizzard but instead get them off their asses and really bring us something truly innovative.
As long as WoW is the epitome of Return On Investment, game designers will be told by studio managers to make their MMO, or some element of their MMO, like WoW.
I hope there is a sandbox WoW killer with robots, lazers, spaceships, full loot PvP, no classes, no levels, and complete customization of the game world. Then everybody can go and try and copy THAT game, and I'll be happy.
I agree with you on all that except the full pvp loot. If that was the case when pvping, I would avoid pvp altogeather. Having to buy all the same crap all over or go collect it all over again. I dont think so. Plus if pvp was open pvp. I would definatly avoid the game altogeather. People would pvp just to harass player for the fun of it. So Im glad there is no game like that. If there was a game with full pvp loot I think it would tottaly suck.
I don't want a WoW-killer, I just want this forum to stop obsessing over WoW as if its the only mmorpg in the block. Does it matter which mmorpg is making the most subs? Does it matter which racer on the PS3 has made the most sales? It doesn't We just need more quality releases in the mmo genre, that is all.
As long as WoW is the epitome of Return On Investment, game designers will be told by studio managers to make their MMO, or some element of their MMO, like WoW.
I hope there is a sandbox WoW killer with robots, lazers, spaceships, full loot PvP, no classes, no levels, and complete customization of the game world. Then everybody can go and try and copy THAT game, and I'll be happy.
I agree with you on all that except the full pvp loot. If that was the case when pvping, I would avoid pvp altogeather. Having to buy all the same crap all over or go collect it all over again. I dont think so. Plus if pvp was open pvp. I would definatly avoid the game altogeather. People would pvp just to harass player for the fun of it. So Im glad there is no game like that. If there was a game with full pvp loot I think it would tottaly suck.
There are several full loot games out there. They do not have the sub numbers that the non full loot games do. MMOs are not played by PnP folks nor are they designed for them. MMOs are designed for the Facebook Apps crowds. The games are becoming more and more meaningless...simply little more than midly entertaining time sinks.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I don't want a WoW-killer, I just want this forum to stop obsessing over WoW as if its the only mmorpg in the block. Does it matter which mmorpg is making the most subs? Does it matter which racer on the PS3 has made the most sales? It doesn't We just need more quality releases in the mmo genre, that is all.
The MMO industry is still a business. Of course sales numbers matter. Not sure how you could say they do not.
If Blizzard did not have the sales with Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo - they could not have done WoW. If CCP did not have the success they did with EVE, would they have been able to buy out White Wolf to be able to do WoD?
Look at companies that have put out what some saw as quality games - but they did not make the sales figures - the games are gone.
It takes money to make a game. The investors are going to want a return on their money. Does this lead to a lot of garbage out there that turns a quick profit and is gone? Yes. Does it also lead to cutting corners on games that end up failing? Of course it does.
As a MMO player - you are looking for one thing. As a MMO developer - they are looking for another. The middleground between the two is going to favor the developer.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
you Guys want to know WoW Killer game browser is Wow Killer more than 50Million ppl playing that games its simple because its a free games for kids and old PPL , even its a free games still they make a millions Dollar, even the Big Player and gaming Dev more Interest to create more New Gamess, and the Good news is , that games are awesome especailly for cheapskate like Me
Comments
Now that I think of it... I don't really want World of Warcraft to die... Because if it does the rest of the mmo world will be flooded with WoW's nastalgic and constantly reminiscing playerbase, just going on and on about how it used to be. It's allready like that with vanilla players, can't even begin to imagine how it will be in the end.
Seriously, that could happen, but like people said, whats most popular is usually most hated as well, just because its well known by a larger group of people who have an opinion they want/have to share.
"You don't have much choice when trouble's riding your back so tight it makes the leather squeak. Sometimes you outsmart it, sometimes you outfight it, and sometimes you just have to outrun it... full throttle."
I dont want a single, or multiple WoW Killers. While I do understand that its position at the top of the pile is stagnating progress, if one (or multiple) games came along with enough polish and detail that would put a sever enough dent in the WoW juggernaut, and cause it to be shut down, then the WoW community would spread like a virus into each and every other game available. Devouring it like locust as they search for the next Easymode ultracasual Everyone gets a medal for attending achievment Lowest Common Denominator wipe their backsides game to plant themselves in. I would not wish that upon the rest of the MMO community, no matter what I think of a game, I would not wish upon it a community of WoW refugees.
I say, make a game good, with polish and creativity, and let those that enjoy it come along, dont try to aim for the sky and base your business plan on luring away millions of WoW subs, slowly erode WoW's playerbase with clever design, polish, and good customer relations, in time, the behemoth will fall, and by building a foundation of trust and polished gameplay, you stand in a position where you can finally grow. This retarded view of game developers (Sorry, its more than likely the publishing houses looking for MASSIVE PROFIT MARGINS!!!) by aiming for the sky and blowing off their toes by delivering a poor copy is disturbing, couple that with the deadlines and the big producer forcing the game into early release which does far more damage, and just aiming for box sales is a woeful trend. WoW will remain at the top of the pile as long as this business practice continues, and frankly, they deserve it. While it may have been the philosophy for Blizzard "its done when its done", and now its more of "Get as much done before Activision sets a release date" they have garnered enough support and goodwill over the years to sit at the top of the pile.
I was going to make a bigger post but will just point to the guy above me. I don't want a WoW killer as the community from WoW is full of immature casual dicks that wouldn't know a good MMO if it came along and punched them in the face. If you kill WoW that community will spread and jump onto the new game which will end up all the worse for it. What I want is a good MMO to come along, not a casual themepark playground with a linear path through the environment, but back to basics EverQuest style adventuring with large open areas, many places to visit and level at regardless of current level, and a community that actually cares for each other and enjoy grouping over soloing and being the 'uber chuck norris ninja badass'.
I don't want a WoW killer, because the only way a game will kill WoW is if it's more of the same crap WoW is, only even moreso.
I'd rather just see WoW drop off the face of the industry and allow the industry to actually start to go back to the traditional intent of MMOs.
I don't want a WoW killer, I want a WoW fanboi killer.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I'm hoping for a larger company to finally stray from the WoW concept and make something with some innovative concepts. For me, a "WoW killer" is a MMO that will have success with being different than WoW. Nothing against WoW or WoW fans, but I want "new" MMOs, not the same old!
I think people mean many things when they say they want a "WoW killer".
For me it means a game that will finnaly match WoW in its quality and will be original and innovative enough to draw the crowds attention. Why do i want it? Because i would like to experience another "WoW" moment before i die. Seriously... :P
There are MMO games that are "better" then wow. But they mostly have a niche appeal. Something is always missing in the formula... I think they should just stop looking for that formula and start making their own games. Screw the wowo numbers already... Blizz didn't plan such a success and neither should others.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
If it could be guaranteed that the WoW fans would drop this genre all together and never pick it up, NOT ONE! then I'd be willing to kill wow. Given the reality however if I killed WoW today, that whole playerbase would have to go somewhere and it would then corrupt any and all other games with their constant bleating claiming "this is too hard" and thus creating yet another era in which the mass slaughter of mmorpg's is continued with wild abandon.
Here's an idea. Lets all make our own genre and name it something that the WoW playerbase would find incredibly distasteful. We could use this to insulate our games from their influence.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Pretty much sums it up what i am thinking. Because of this, i hope WoW will continue to exist for a long, long time. (which it will do anyway). I just wish the game wouldn´t be all over the place, no matter what game site i visit i find some WoW related article or some quotes from the lousy Devs. Or that so many people always have to compare other mmo´s with wow, it´s annoying to me.
"i'm a leaf on the wind watch how i soar"
I agree but the reality of the situation now is that you have 12+ million subscribers paying for a WOW type of MMORPG. Unless you can appeal to a substantial part of that market base (who by the way aren't your typical traditonal MMORPGrs), no AAA rated development company will give them the time of day.
Polished MMORPGs are becoming more expensive to develop / produce and the market on the whole is becoming WAY more competitive than the MMORPG industry was even 5 years ago. How much did Star Wars: KOTOR cost??? 300-400 MILLION DOLLARS? Think about that for a second, the cost of developing a complete & polished MMORPG with cutting edge graphics cost as much to make as a major Box Hit. For comparison purposes....Avatar had a 500 million dollar budget.
Couple that with a 3-4 year development cycle before you earn one red cent......the EAs & NCSofts of the world aren't exactly inclined to take a chance on something different....much less make a MMORPG that is more akin to the sandbox virtual worlds Ultima Online &, to a certain extent, EQ had.
In addition to having to compete with the likes of WOW, a new game (who presumbably would be appealing to casual gamer types) will have to compete with all other casual entertainment venues.....including one of the hundreds of available F2P MMORPGs, console games, FPS games, and yes....even social media & iPhone games.
When MMORPG games were niche based and not mainstream......developers didn't have to worry about Mario Bros. eating into their Ultima Online time. A very specific kind of gamer went to MMORPGs because they offered something that you couldn't get from other game generes. Not the case anymore.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
As long as WoW is the epitome of Return On Investment, game designers will be told by studio managers to make their MMO, or some element of their MMO, like WoW.
I hope there is a sandbox WoW killer with robots, lazers, spaceships, full loot PvP, no classes, no levels, and complete customization of the game world. Then everybody can go and try and copy THAT game, and I'll be happy.
I personally don't like where Blizzard as a developer is headed and feel they need to be brought back down into reality. Everything is just coming so easy for them right now and you can't create Diamonds without a sh!t load of pressure.
I just wish people weren't so brainwashed to buy everything their favorite developers make. This isn't just a Blizzard issue, look at games like Call of Duty they release practically the same game every year and charge outrageous prices for 3 maps but these people eat it up like candy.
This looks like a huge bash on Activision which I truly do despise (Bobby Kottick what a douche) but I don't think a little misfortune would hurt Blizzard but instead get them off their asses and really bring us something truly innovative.
I agree with you on all that except the full pvp loot. If that was the case when pvping, I would avoid pvp altogeather. Having to buy all the same crap all over or go collect it all over again. I dont think so. Plus if pvp was open pvp. I would definatly avoid the game altogeather. People would pvp just to harass player for the fun of it. So Im glad there is no game like that. If there was a game with full pvp loot I think it would tottaly suck.
I don't want a WoW-killer, I just want this forum to stop obsessing over WoW as if its the only mmorpg in the block. Does it matter which mmorpg is making the most subs? Does it matter which racer on the PS3 has made the most sales? It doesn't We just need more quality releases in the mmo genre, that is all.
There are several full loot games out there. They do not have the sub numbers that the non full loot games do. MMOs are not played by PnP folks nor are they designed for them. MMOs are designed for the Facebook Apps crowds. The games are becoming more and more meaningless...simply little more than midly entertaining time sinks.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The MMO industry is still a business. Of course sales numbers matter. Not sure how you could say they do not.
If Blizzard did not have the sales with Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo - they could not have done WoW. If CCP did not have the success they did with EVE, would they have been able to buy out White Wolf to be able to do WoD?
Look at companies that have put out what some saw as quality games - but they did not make the sales figures - the games are gone.
It takes money to make a game. The investors are going to want a return on their money. Does this lead to a lot of garbage out there that turns a quick profit and is gone? Yes. Does it also lead to cutting corners on games that end up failing? Of course it does.
As a MMO player - you are looking for one thing. As a MMO developer - they are looking for another. The middleground between the two is going to favor the developer.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
So these threads will end, until someone starts a "Next Game X KILLER!!!!"
you Guys want to know WoW Killer
game browser is Wow Killer more than 50Million ppl playing that games its simple because its a free games 
for kids and old PPL , even its a free games still they make a millions Dollar, even the Big Player and gaming Dev more Interest to create more New Gamess, and the Good news is , that games are awesome especailly for cheapskate like Me 