As for the ping times, if you're pinging the website you're not only pinging the wrong servers, you're pinging the wrong datacenter and host all together. I ping the game servers from here in Ottawa (my ISP is Rogers Cable, for anyone wondering) in the upper 60's to low 70's. I ping the website around 125-175ms. Anyone with a moderate understanding of how the internet works will know that location isn't even close to the most important factor in determining network latency. I could ping a server in europe twice as fast as I do one here on the east coast. It's the path the data takes, not where it's physically located. Star Vault pays a lot of money to make sure that the game servers are on one of the best backbones money can buy.
And, while this is a bit off topic, for those of you who are interested in knowing the technicalities, the launcher itself performs quite well; the slow patch installations are due to the patching engine used. SV's well aware that it needs to be faster, though, and has plans on changing that engine in the future. Installing from scratch will get you up to the epic patch MUCH faster now since it does simple decompression and does not need to do any differential patching.
PS: I don't have the authority to release any of the game server IPs, but if you run the launcher and have 5-6 bars, you're likely under the 100ms mark.
Anyone that plays online knows "PING" is only a small part of the equation. You can ping a non-responsive website for 20ms or be "pinging" your favorite non-responsive game at "20ms"
Anyone that plays online knows "PING" is only a small part of the equation. You can ping a non-responsive website for 20ms or be "pinging" your favorite non-responsive game at "20ms"
Yes, this is exactly right. This is basically what I was trying to explain in the post on the MO forums that this thread was, for some reason, made around. Network latency itself isn't a problem right now. Ping times are quite good to most places in the world. There is room for improvement when it comes to the server hardware and processing. This is where the feeling of lag might come in with a massive battle. My point was simply to illustrate that a server located in the US wouldn't change anything. Location is not the issue for MO as they really do have a great host; instead, those resources should (and will) go into improving the actual server processing performance. The "epic" patch made this much more possible with an improved server node/cluster system, so we should start seeing "lag" improvements now.
Eyes: I never said the IPs were closely guarded secret, I just don't want to give them out without getting permission first, so I decided not to.
i prefer an mmo to be client side hit detection with checks from the server, rather than all server side. With all server side if the target isnt actually were he appears on your screen your hits will pass straight through him, this can be seen in games like Warband and also on an fps when you shoot and to you it looked like you hit but the hit doesnt register. With client side detection if the target appears to you infront of you then you will always hit no matter what. both cases you will get lag server side is harder to hack but much more strain on the server. As a general rule almost all mmos are client side hit detection the reason it doesnt come into play is due to the type of combat they feature which isnt location specific and as hit specific as MO.
Client side hit detection left MO open to basic hacks that were used in beta, they certainly annoyed a few people and whilst not wide spread i could probably conut the number of hackers i seen on one hand certailny made people suspect client or server side. But since rleease i havent seen not 1 person hacking so they are either extrmely good at it and doing it subtly or it is hardly happening.
server side is great when you have a good ping and thats why its suited to something like CS. But with a high ping your hits will start to not register and thats where client side works better, for players with varying pings client side will always mean if the palyer is infront of you you will hit him.
client side is better suited to MO basically.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Paratus made the patcher to the best of his ability and I won't get involved there since it - for all its faults - was never game-breaking. The anti-cheat system he made for Starvault however; is pure bollox. Seriously Paratus, if you're making an anti-cheat system at least make it so that you don't have to troll through pages of lag-hack and speed-hack flags looking for gravity-hack flags with a magnifying glass because that's the only reliable detection.
i prefer an mmo to be client side hit detection with checks from the server, rather than all server side. With all server side if the target isnt actually were he appears on your screen your hits will pass straight through him, this can be seen in games like Warband and also on an fps when you shoot and to you it looked like you hit but the hit doesnt register.
server side is great when you have a good ping and thats why its suited to something like CS. But with a high ping your hits will start to not register and thats where client side works better, for players with varying pings client side will always mean if the palyer is infront of you you will hit him.
client side is better suited to MO basically.
Client side hit detection punishes guy with better connection.
It should work the other way - if someone downloads pr0n in the background, turns on lag-switch, plays over crappy WiFi - he should be punished by game mechanics.
Just imagine what will happen when they'll add projectiles to the game. Only the guy with 20 ping will actually shoot arrows, and his arrows will travel in the air, giving you a chance to dodge them - but guy with 400 ping will do instant hits.
Client should predict where the opponent may be, and show his position on your screen as good as your connection allows for, and depending how good prediction was integrated within the game.
I guess Warband has crappy prediction - not really suprising considering that it's half-amateur team which wrote their own engine, and added multiplayer as afterthought. It's years behind Unreal Engine.
Paratus made the patcher to the best of his ability and I won't get involved there since it - for all its faults - was never game-breaking. The anti-cheat system he made for Starvault however; is pure bollox. Seriously Paratus, if you're making an anti-cheat system at least make it so that you don't have to troll through pages of lag-hack and speed-hack flags looking for gravity-hack flags with a magnifying glass because that's the only reliable detection.
Paratus made the anti-cheat system??? Is that why it sux major ass?? Did SV do anything right??? How come they bought an engine that shouldn't be used for an MMO? And had a player make the patcher and the anti-cheat?? WTF?? Why did they go bargin basement on everything ?
Oh he's a Counselor now too, probably soon to be bumped to full GM considering he's doing the flash design for SV.
Why do they not just fly him to Sweden and add him to the team since he is doing alot of "critical work". So now I see why the flash is taking so long to get done.
Oh he's a Counselor now too, probably soon to be bumped to full GM considering he's doing the flash design for SV.
Are you serious? More 'special treatment for special friends".
I'm a community member, and I certainly don't get special treatment. If I wanted to be a counselor, I'd have to apply and go through the interview process just like everyone else. I'll also never be a GM because I obviously don't have time to even consider applying for a job so time-consuming as that.
Originally posted by maharet
Paratus made the anti-cheat system??? Is that why it sux major ass?? Did SV do anything right??? How come they bought an engine that shouldn't be used for an MMO? And had a player make the patcher and the anti-cheat?? WTF?? Why did they go bargin basement on everything ?
I have no issue with people bashing the work I do if you have genuine reasons for not liking it. The funny thing is, all of the work I'm being bashed for is stuff I have never even so much as touched. I have no relation to the server side hack-detection being discussed.. none at all. I did contribute to the client-side hack detection; the client side detection also happens to be 100% accurate and literally impossible to flag false-positives. Have you noticed the decline in hacking over the last few months?
Originally posted by maharet
So now I see why the flash is taking so long to get done.
I'm not the only one who does flash work for Mortal Online; SV has in-house developers working on it, too. You won't be disappointed at all when you see what's on it's way, either.
Why isn't the Flash done already. Henrik pretty much said it was done and waiting for the EPIC patch. henrik has said a lot of the content is done and waiting for the EPIC patch. '13 magic schools coded and ready to go". I wish you would either tell Henrik to shut up. Or just tell everyone that it is being coded as they go.
Why isn't the Flash done already. Henrik pretty much said it was done and waiting for the EPIC patch. henrik has said a lot of the content is done and waiting for the EPIC patch. '13 magic schools coded and ready to go". I wish you would either tell Henrik to shut up. Or just tell everyone that it is being coded as they go.
I don't know about the magic schools, since I don't work on that stuff at all, but I do know it's true that there is some really cool flash stuff done. It's not so easy as just creating a flash file and sticking it in the game, though. There needs to be network communication and database integration. Sometimes even items, and such.
I know you want to hear that it's all going to just pop out in the next patch but I can tell you with certainty that the flash stuff being done, even just the stuff I've seen and worked on, is epic. I also believe some of the epic stuff might be there pretty soon, but that's not something I decide or have any control over as every piece of new GUI requires coordination from at least 2-3 departments.
And when they tell to ignore flags? Wtf.. system that is so broken that the only thing we can rely on a person who made the launcher and his 'anti-hack'
Syndic says:
lol paratus made the anti-hack?
ExDevGuy says:
shit, then just ..ok guys ban people for like 1 , 3 , week , perma
ExDevGuy says:
and dont overdo it
ExDevGuy says:
yea hes now deep into SV realm
ExDevGuy says:
counselor , going on GM soon if SV wants
ExDevGuy says:
doing the flash i belive
Syndic says:
he used to leak stuff to us, while his ex-guild Overlords were still in Prometheus
ExDevGuy says:
mm Maerlyn liked him
ExDevGuy says:
and 'used' him so Maerlyn could get +points for bringing him in
I don't think I've seen so much conspiracy theorising since EA bought out OSI. Only played MO for like a day in beta, but these forums are more amusing then most of the games out there now.
And when they tell to ignore flags? Wtf.. system that is so broken that the only thing we can rely on a person who made the launcher and his 'anti-hack'
Syndic says:
lol paratus made the anti-hack?
ExDevGuy says:
shit, then just ..ok guys ban people for like 1 , 3 , week , perma
ExDevGuy says:
and dont overdo it
ExDevGuy says:
yea hes now deep into SV realm
ExDevGuy says:
counselor , going on GM soon if SV wants
ExDevGuy says:
doing the flash i belive
Syndic says:
he used to leak stuff to us, while his ex-guild Overlords were still in Prometheus
ExDevGuy says:
mm Maerlyn liked him
ExDevGuy says:
and 'used' him so Maerlyn could get +points for bringing him in
"ExDevGuy" seems to think he knows what he's talking about, but he really doesn't. I mean, almost everything he said is false or at least misunderstood. I'll start from the top to clear up this stuff:
There are two parts to the anti-hack system. There is the server side stuff, which tracks behavior and patterns to flag certain actions for review, and the client side stuff which works almost like a mini, internal, anti-virus system. Your dev definitely wasn't in a prominent position, because he's confusing the two. I never worked on the server-side stuff at all, only the client-side. The client-side is also extremely effective and, like I said, never makes a false positive.
It's true I work on other aspects of the game, too, but I haven't heard any complaints about my contributions there. The library GUI was well received, as were several other things. I'm not a low budget developer by any means, either.
Also, as for Maerlyn, I'm not quite sure how he got points for bringing me in when I was contributing before I even met him? If anything, it was Sone who brought me in. Damn you, Maerlyn! I feel so used!
I'm not saying your "ex dev guy" was lying, but it does seem like he was misinformed and didn't really understand what he was talking about.
...censorship on the MO forums? In which case, I would point out that the forum was locked not deleted. The only thing that further discussion could have added is more people noting their own ping times, which in some cases will have a lot more to do with their ISP than SV.
...ping time? In which case I think paratus addressed that.
.... the need for a North American server? In which case, I would point out that even if this improved ping times for some people, it would make 2 servers with half the population. You have previously argued that the population is already to low to keep the game going http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3768193#3768193 , so wouldn't splitting the server just serve to kill the game?
.... a gratuitous dig at the quality of the patcher?
The last thing Mortal Online needs is a NA server. I am located in India and have absolutely fine ping to the European server so why someone in the US would need one I have no idea.
Why split the population in half like that?
Darkfall certainly did not need an NA server - go play Darkfall now and see how much better it would be with double the amount of people.
And when they tell to ignore flags? Wtf.. system that is so broken that the only thing we can rely on a person who made the launcher and his 'anti-hack'
Syndic says:
lol paratus made the anti-hack?
ExDevGuy says:
shit, then just ..ok guys ban people for like 1 , 3 , week , perma
ExDevGuy says:
and dont overdo it
ExDevGuy says:
yea hes now deep into SV realm
ExDevGuy says:
counselor , going on GM soon if SV wants
ExDevGuy says:
doing the flash i belive
Syndic says:
he used to leak stuff to us, while his ex-guild Overlords were still in Prometheus
ExDevGuy says:
mm Maerlyn liked him
ExDevGuy says:
and 'used' him so Maerlyn could get +points for bringing him in
The last thing Mortal Online needs is a NA server. I am located in India and have absolutely fine ping to the European server so why someone in the US would need one I have no idea.
Why split the population in half like that?
Darkfall certainly did not need an NA server - go play Darkfall now and see how much better it would be with double the amount of people.
I would rather have a dead game than lower ping... Playing with 300ms+ ping is not fun at all...
Comments
Anyone that plays online knows "PING" is only a small part of the equation. You can ping a non-responsive website for 20ms or be "pinging" your favorite non-responsive game at "20ms"
I win!!! LOL@U
Yes, this is exactly right. This is basically what I was trying to explain in the post on the MO forums that this thread was, for some reason, made around. Network latency itself isn't a problem right now. Ping times are quite good to most places in the world. There is room for improvement when it comes to the server hardware and processing. This is where the feeling of lag might come in with a massive battle. My point was simply to illustrate that a server located in the US wouldn't change anything. Location is not the issue for MO as they really do have a great host; instead, those resources should (and will) go into improving the actual server processing performance. The "epic" patch made this much more possible with an improved server node/cluster system, so we should start seeing "lag" improvements now.
Eyes: I never said the IPs were closely guarded secret, I just don't want to give them out without getting permission first, so I decided not to.
i prefer an mmo to be client side hit detection with checks from the server, rather than all server side. With all server side if the target isnt actually were he appears on your screen your hits will pass straight through him, this can be seen in games like Warband and also on an fps when you shoot and to you it looked like you hit but the hit doesnt register. With client side detection if the target appears to you infront of you then you will always hit no matter what. both cases you will get lag server side is harder to hack but much more strain on the server. As a general rule almost all mmos are client side hit detection the reason it doesnt come into play is due to the type of combat they feature which isnt location specific and as hit specific as MO.
Client side hit detection left MO open to basic hacks that were used in beta, they certainly annoyed a few people and whilst not wide spread i could probably conut the number of hackers i seen on one hand certailny made people suspect client or server side. But since rleease i havent seen not 1 person hacking so they are either extrmely good at it and doing it subtly or it is hardly happening.
server side is great when you have a good ping and thats why its suited to something like CS. But with a high ping your hits will start to not register and thats where client side works better, for players with varying pings client side will always mean if the palyer is infront of you you will hit him.
client side is better suited to MO basically.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Paratus made the patcher to the best of his ability and I won't get involved there since it - for all its faults - was never game-breaking. The anti-cheat system he made for Starvault however; is pure bollox. Seriously Paratus, if you're making an anti-cheat system at least make it so that you don't have to troll through pages of lag-hack and speed-hack flags looking for gravity-hack flags with a magnifying glass because that's the only reliable detection.
Client side hit detection punishes guy with better connection.
It should work the other way - if someone downloads pr0n in the background, turns on lag-switch, plays over crappy WiFi - he should be punished by game mechanics.
Just imagine what will happen when they'll add projectiles to the game. Only the guy with 20 ping will actually shoot arrows, and his arrows will travel in the air, giving you a chance to dodge them - but guy with 400 ping will do instant hits.
Client should predict where the opponent may be, and show his position on your screen as good as your connection allows for, and depending how good prediction was integrated within the game.
I guess Warband has crappy prediction - not really suprising considering that it's half-amateur team which wrote their own engine, and added multiplayer as afterthought. It's years behind Unreal Engine.
Coming up with imaginary problems to burn MO with sounds pretty silly to me...
American players have never reported problems competiting with European players, so there's not much to discuss here until they do.
Theres been so much inherent server lag to render network latency moot. Seems every patch is trying to address lag/sync issues.
Latest patch - "- Made several improvements to the interpolation system to make it sync up more often."
I win!!! LOL@U
Paratus made the anti-cheat system??? Is that why it sux major ass?? Did SV do anything right??? How come they bought an engine that shouldn't be used for an MMO? And had a player make the patcher and the anti-cheat?? WTF?? Why did they go bargin basement on everything ?
Oh he's a Counselor now too, probably soon to be bumped to full GM considering he's doing the flash design for SV.
Why do they not just fly him to Sweden and add him to the team since he is doing alot of "critical work". So now I see why the flash is taking so long to get done.
Is whinging all you guys in yankyville do? complain and moan about everything?
I get 450ms to the server and play just fine.
150 is fine, grow up and deal with it and stop acting like a bunch of girls.
Are you serious? More 'special treatment for special friends".
I win!!! LOL@U
I'm a community member, and I certainly don't get special treatment. If I wanted to be a counselor, I'd have to apply and go through the interview process just like everyone else. I'll also never be a GM because I obviously don't have time to even consider applying for a job so time-consuming as that.
I have no issue with people bashing the work I do if you have genuine reasons for not liking it. The funny thing is, all of the work I'm being bashed for is stuff I have never even so much as touched. I have no relation to the server side hack-detection being discussed.. none at all. I did contribute to the client-side hack detection; the client side detection also happens to be 100% accurate and literally impossible to flag false-positives. Have you noticed the decline in hacking over the last few months?
I'm not the only one who does flash work for Mortal Online; SV has in-house developers working on it, too. You won't be disappointed at all when you see what's on it's way, either.
Why isn't the Flash done already. Henrik pretty much said it was done and waiting for the EPIC patch. henrik has said a lot of the content is done and waiting for the EPIC patch. '13 magic schools coded and ready to go". I wish you would either tell Henrik to shut up. Or just tell everyone that it is being coded as they go.
I don't know about the magic schools, since I don't work on that stuff at all, but I do know it's true that there is some really cool flash stuff done. It's not so easy as just creating a flash file and sticking it in the game, though. There needs to be network communication and database integration. Sometimes even items, and such.
I know you want to hear that it's all going to just pop out in the next patch but I can tell you with certainty that the flash stuff being done, even just the stuff I've seen and worked on, is epic. I also believe some of the epic stuff might be there pretty soon, but that's not something I decide or have any control over as every piece of new GUI requires coordination from at least 2-3 departments.
One of you two is lying.
ExDevGuy says:
And when they tell to ignore flags? Wtf.. system that is so broken that the only thing we can rely on a person who made the launcher and his 'anti-hack'
Syndic says:
lol paratus made the anti-hack?
ExDevGuy says:
shit, then just ..ok guys ban people for like 1 , 3 , week , perma
ExDevGuy says:
and dont overdo it
ExDevGuy says:
yea hes now deep into SV realm
ExDevGuy says:
counselor , going on GM soon if SV wants
ExDevGuy says:
doing the flash i belive
Syndic says:
he used to leak stuff to us, while his ex-guild Overlords were still in Prometheus
ExDevGuy says:
mm Maerlyn liked him
ExDevGuy says:
and 'used' him so Maerlyn could get +points for bringing him in
I don't think I've seen so much conspiracy theorising since EA bought out OSI. Only played MO for like a day in beta, but these forums are more amusing then most of the games out there now.
"ExDevGuy" seems to think he knows what he's talking about, but he really doesn't. I mean, almost everything he said is false or at least misunderstood. I'll start from the top to clear up this stuff:
There are two parts to the anti-hack system. There is the server side stuff, which tracks behavior and patterns to flag certain actions for review, and the client side stuff which works almost like a mini, internal, anti-virus system. Your dev definitely wasn't in a prominent position, because he's confusing the two. I never worked on the server-side stuff at all, only the client-side. The client-side is also extremely effective and, like I said, never makes a false positive.
It's true I work on other aspects of the game, too, but I haven't heard any complaints about my contributions there. The library GUI was well received, as were several other things. I'm not a low budget developer by any means, either.
Also, as for Maerlyn, I'm not quite sure how he got points for bringing me in when I was contributing before I even met him? If anything, it was Sone who brought me in. Damn you, Maerlyn! I feel so used!
I'm not saying your "ex dev guy" was lying, but it does seem like he was misinformed and didn't really understand what he was talking about.
@ davmac:
Is this thread intended to be about ....
...censorship on the MO forums? In which case, I would point out that the forum was locked not deleted. The only thing that further discussion could have added is more people noting their own ping times, which in some cases will have a lot more to do with their ISP than SV.
...ping time? In which case I think paratus addressed that.
.... the need for a North American server? In which case, I would point out that even if this improved ping times for some people, it would make 2 servers with half the population. You have previously argued that the population is already to low to keep the game going http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3768193#3768193 , so wouldn't splitting the server just serve to kill the game?
.... a gratuitous dig at the quality of the patcher?
The last thing Mortal Online needs is a NA server. I am located in India and have absolutely fine ping to the European server so why someone in the US would need one I have no idea.
Why split the population in half like that?
Darkfall certainly did not need an NA server - go play Darkfall now and see how much better it would be with double the amount of people.
Can you post the entire log?
I would rather have a dead game than lower ping... Playing with 300ms+ ping is not fun at all...