WoW the best at pvp. Did I read that right? Really? Seriously? WoWs good at a lot of things but pvp? You gotta be fuckin joking me.
Aggreeeee
PVP in WoW is just lol.
So you think that rated Arena's and Battlegrounds are a joke ?
Ok, now give us another game with the same number of BG's,:Arena's:RvR fights and real price money in E-sports.
And before you do the counting: there's around 40 different Bg's spread over 85 levels in the next expansion.
I am looking forward to the 3 choices of play in Cata: rated, non rated and guild vs guild on invite (wargames). Tol Barad, world ganking in archeology and Capitol City raids (a breeze with the now available flying mounts ).
"fuckin joke"? No problem: you can always ignore it all.
WoW the best at pvp. Did I read that right? Really? Seriously? WoWs good at a lot of things but pvp? You gotta be fuckin joking me.
Aggreeeee
PVP in WoW is just lol.
So you think that rated Arena's and Battlegrounds are a joke ?
Ok, now give us another game with the same number of BG's,:Arena's:RvR fights and real price money in E-sports.
And before you do the counting: there's around 40 different Bg's spread over 85 levels in the next expansion.
I am looking forward to the 3 choices of play in Cata: rated, non rated and guild vs guild on invite (wargames). Tol Barad, world ganking in archeology and Capitol City raids (a breeze with the now available flying mounts ).
"fuckin joke"? No problem: you can always ignore it all.
ah of course, because theres a bunch of attention given to the games pvp content (outside the game) then it must be good right? The pvp in the game is an unbalanced piece of shit. If DAoC and WoW pvp were to get in a fight, WoW pvp would be lying in a pool of its own blood. DAoC pvp didn't have the greatest balance either, but it was a hell of a lot more meaningful and epic. WoW pvp is largely about matchups and luck once you learn the basics of your class. Yep. WoW pvp is better because people play it for money. Please. PMR. nuff said.
mod please delete this thread..everquest was released in 1999 were as warcraft orcs & humans was released in 1994 which then blizzard was preparing for a 7 year games design to make world of warcraft which was released in 2001 while continuing creating warcraft 2 which was released in 1995 & further on warcraft 3 2002 blizzard had created there warcraft franchise a longtime before & were simply working hard to get it finished which is why blizzard is such a successful company some people seem to think it takes 5-6months to create a solid gaming title or copy.
HAHA You sir are retarded. WoW was released November 23rd, 2004. They just had there 5 year aniversery so you must not play WoW at all.
You must be trolling. If you really think this is true WoW must be the only game you have ever played.
I put WoW as the best PVP MMO because of the fact it has the most popularity in MLG style competitions. It would be stupid puting a game like DaoC as the top one when no competitions are held.
One element doesn't make a MMO the "Best" or even good.
While everything has its flaws, it's pretty clear that World of Warcraft has had many successful elements to make it hands down the best MMO on the market ever. You might not agree, but evidently 11 million other people seem to have that view. It's a rather convincing number that no other MMO is close to.
When you're pulling in millons (many) of dollars in a year off subscriptions alone, you're clearly doing more than one thing right.
WoW is pound for pound the best MMO ever.
And I say that as a former player that is bored as hell of the game.
There are many good games out there, but evidently there were not enough successful elements in them to propel them to WoW's level of success.
so your argument is the number of sales or subscriptions of a game makes it the 'best game' ever? Ok lets do this thing where we look at other games, and films. Titanic one of the best-selling films of all time- also gained a lot of awards- best film ever? Or how about Fifa on the consoles- selling ridiculous numbers- best game ever?
Its why best is subjective. And quite apparent a sheep effect- you know why Blizzard release their numbers all the time? To give people this false conclusion. Make up your own mind what game you play.
What is the best is not always subjective, in many occasions it can also be measured. However, popularity is not one of those measures. Popularity is a measure of success.
The OP seems to confuse popularity with being the best.
-------
Also, the best PvP MMO is no doubt EVE. The whole concept of the game revolves around players competing against each other. Player vs. Player concept has a lot more under it's umbrella than mindless open world PvP, scenario based battlegrounds and set stage arenas. The basics include things like:
Diplomacy and alliances.
Control of Resources.
Control of areas.
Economy
EVE is the only game that has successfully incorporated a complex PvP environment that looks beyond mindless killing. It is the only game where you can really play different roles that imitate real-life "PvP".
You can become a leader of massive inter-galactic alliance. In control of dozens of star systems.
You can become a spy who infiltrates the above corporation in order to sabotage it or simply to report to his own alliance.
You can become a lonely or small corp. pirate that preys on innocent traders.
You can become a mercenary who offers his services to the highest bidder.
You can become a trader that control the market for certain resources.
You can become a hauler that specializes on sensitive and hard to transport cargo.
You can become an industrialist.
You can become a researcher.
And so on. Options go far and wide. You could probably even invent a new profession that you aim to master. All the above is also connected into PvP environment. You do not have to take part in PvP battles in order to be part of the PvP experience in EVE. Pretty much everything you do in EVE is connected to the PvP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Is this where someone comes in and states that McDonald's is the best restaurant in the world because it has more locations and sells more food then any other on Earth? Personally, I like Wendy's myself, or Burger King as opposed to eating at McD's.. But if I have the time to sit down and actually enjoy dinner.. I'll cough up the extra $$$ for Applebees, Chili's or Outback.. I guess this is why we have so many different restaurants out there.. to each their own depending on mood and flavor..
Not sure why people are giving the OP crap. For objective reasons, WOW's PVP pretty clearly is the best true PVP experience to exist in a MMORPG.
The fact that people are giving him crap is exactly why I feel zerg PVP needs a completely separate term (without "PVP" in it). Because anyone who'd insult WOW's PVP is looking for a zergy, casual-tilted world player combat sort of experience (EVE/DF/etc). And that's not really true PVP.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
so your argument is the number of sales or subscriptions of a game makes it the 'best game' ever? Ok lets do this thing where we look at other games, and films. Titanic one of the best-selling films of all time- also gained a lot of awards- best film ever? Or how about Fifa on the consoles- selling ridiculous numbers- best game ever?
Its why best is subjective. And quite apparent a sheep effect- you know why Blizzard release their numbers all the time? To give people this false conclusion. Make up your own mind what game you play.
Perhaps over simplifying things for people like you is a bad approach, or maybe you need it simplified more?
World of Warcraft has managed to develop their game in a fashion to where it is both playable and enjoyable for a wide variety of people.
Blizzard has managed to provide a very successful pvp element in the form of battlegrounds and arena content, various pve elements from questing, larger raiding contents, and smaller dungeon-type content, along with a very successful crafting scheme, and collecting elements in the game.
They done enough to provide many different people with different views of what is "Best" something they enjoy and are willing to subscribe to en masse.
I'm not foolish enough to believe that subscriptions mean nothing at all. Numbers are a pretty good broad estimation of quality.
One element doesn't make a MMO the "Best" or even good.
While everything has its flaws, it's pretty clear that World of Warcraft has had many successful elements to make it hands down the best MMO on the market ever. You might not agree, but evidently 11 million other people seem to have that view. It's a rather convincing number that no other MMO is close to.
When you're pulling in millons (many) of dollars in a year off subscriptions alone, you're clearly doing more than one thing right.
WoW is pound for pound the best MMO ever.
And I say that as a former player that is bored as hell of the game.
There are many good games out there, but evidently there were not enough successful elements in them to propel them to WoW's level of success.
Where did I say that one element makes a game the best? I didnt, I simply catagorized WoW as the best Dungeon crawler and PVP MMO out there. For all you saying WoW isnt the best PVP game, why is it a recognized E-Sport? Why is it ballenced? Aion for sure isnt ballenced, Warhammer is sure as hell not ballenced, and EVE may be but that game almost deserves its own sub catagory haha.
Re read my statements before you flame on my thread, it only leads to the 2/3rd of this thread posters that see what I mean. There is NO MMO that is the best simply because there is so many catagorys that you have to catagorize them into.
OH and popularity means jack crap lol... worst statement that ive ever read imo and I think many will agree.
mod please delete this thread..everquest was released in 1999 were as warcraft orcs & humans was released in 1994 which then blizzard was preparing for a 7 year games design to make world of warcraft which was released in 2001 while continuing creating warcraft 2 which was released in 1995 & further on warcraft 3 2002 blizzard had created there warcraft franchise a longtime before & were simply working hard to get it finished which is why blizzard is such a successful company some people seem to think it takes 5-6months to create a solid gaming title or copy.
HAHA You sir are retarded. WoW was released November 23rd, 2004. They just had there 5 year aniversery so you must not play WoW at all.
i dont know but i really think that since we are in november 2010 we might be closer to 6th year than 5th...
mod please delete this thread..everquest was released in 1999 were as warcraft orcs & humans was released in 1994 which then blizzard was preparing for a 7 year games design to make world of warcraft which was released in 2001 while continuing creating warcraft 2 which was released in 1995 & further on warcraft 3 2002 blizzard had created there warcraft franchise a longtime before & were simply working hard to get it finished which is why blizzard is such a successful company some people seem to think it takes 5-6months to create a solid gaming title or copy.
HAHA You sir are retarded. WoW was released November 23rd, 2004. They just had there 5 year aniversery so you must not play WoW at all.
i dont know but i really think that since we are in november 2010 we might be closer to 6th year than 5th...
Thats if you use estimated statistics... but technically it still is 5 years, ALMOST 6. Plus he was still 3 years off haha.
What is the best is not always subjective, in many occasions it can also be measured. However, popularity is not one of those measures. Popularity is a measure of success.
The OP seems to confuse popularity with being the best.
-------
Also, the best PvP MMO is no doubt EVE. The whole concept of the game revolves around players competing against each other. Player vs. Player concept has a lot more under it's umbrella than mindless open world PvP, scenario based battlegrounds and set stage arenas. The basics include things like:
Diplomacy and alliances.
Control of Resources.
Control of areas.
Economy
EVE is the only game that has successfully incorporated a complex PvP environment that looks beyond mindless killing. It is the only game where you can really play different roles that imitate real-life "PvP".
You can become a leader of massive inter-galactic alliance. In control of dozens of star systems.
You can become a spy who infiltrates the above corporation in order to sabotage it or simply to report to his own alliance.
You can become a lonely or small corp. pirate that preys on innocent traders.
You can become a mercenary who offers his services to the highest bidder.
You can become a trader that control the market for certain resources.
You can become a hauler that specializes on sensitive and hard to transport cargo.
You can become an industrialist.
You can become a researcher.
And so on. Options go far and wide. You could probably even invent a new profession that you aim to master. All the above is also connected into PvP environment. You do not have to take part in PvP battles in order to be part of the PvP experience in EVE. Pretty much everything you do in EVE is connected to the PvP.
Even if i play Eve for about 2 years now i have to disagree, all the setting around the pvp in Eve is NOT PVP. It is fun to deal with huge alliances but it is not pvp. Pvp is the fact that 2 players can kill each other as they please or not. Eve has a majority of gankfest, gate camping and disloyal fight. Killing a hulk in 0.0 IS NOT PVP, its like killing critters in WOW. I have seen in 2 years in Eve 1 real PVP fight that was worth calling it PVP. When you do a fight 20 vs 10 some might call it pvp i call it gankfest, until the 10 comes back with 30 friends and ganks the other 25 back. Skills between 2 characters might do so much diffence that it could be compared to pvp a 10 vs a lv 80, again no pvp here.
The bad thing about Eve is that when you are killed by someone usually you never got a chance to beat him, it is rarely an even fight, either they were more ship/players than youor you were in a carebear ship or the opponent had twice your amount of skill point in combats skills.
That is why i say that wow has better pvp than Eve.
Originally posted by dnarris Originally posted by spades07 so your argument is the number of sales or subscriptions of a game makes it the 'best game' ever? Ok lets do this thing where we look at other games, and films. Titanic one of the best-selling films of all time- also gained a lot of awards- best film ever? Or how about Fifa on the consoles- selling ridiculous numbers- best game ever? Its why best is subjective. And quite apparent a sheep effect- you know why Blizzard release their numbers all the time? To give people this false conclusion. Make up your own mind what game you play.
Perhaps over simplifying things for people like you is a bad approach, or maybe you need it simplified more? World of Warcraft has managed to develop their game in a fashion to where it is both playable and enjoyable for a wide variety of people. Blizzard has managed to provide a very successful pvp element in the form of battlegrounds and arena content, various pve elements from questing, larger raiding contents, and smaller dungeon-type content, along with a very successful crafting scheme, and collecting elements in the game. They done enough to provide many different people with different views of what is "Best" something they enjoy and are willing to subscribe to en masse. I'm not foolish enough to believe that subscriptions mean nothing at all. Numbers are a pretty good broad estimation of quality.
No basically your argument is completely fanboied. There is no such thing as best mmo in the same way, there is no best racer or best sports title. To make a statement such 'WoW is the best mmo' just reaks of fanboism and to be honest a complete lack of playing any other mmorpgs.
Originally posted by Azzthuras Originally posted by dnarris Azzthuras, I disagree with you. One element doesn't make a MMO the "Best" or even good. While everything has its flaws, it's pretty clear that World of Warcraft has had many successful elements to make it hands down the best MMO on the market ever. You might not agree, but evidently 11 million other people seem to have that view. It's a rather convincing number that no other MMO is close to. When you're pulling in millons (many) of dollars in a year off subscriptions alone, you're clearly doing more than one thing right. WoW is pound for pound the best MMO ever. And I say that as a former player that is bored as hell of the game. There are many good games out there, but evidently there were not enough successful elements in them to propel them to WoW's level of success.
Where did I say that one element makes a game the best? I didnt, I simply catagorized WoW as the best Dungeon crawler and PVP MMO out there. For all you saying WoW isnt the best PVP game, why is it a recognized E-Sport? Why is it ballenced? Aion for sure isnt ballenced, Warhammer is sure as hell not ballenced, and EVE may be but that game almost deserves its own sub catagory haha. Re read my statements before you flame on my thread, it only leads to the 2/3rd of this thread posters that see what I mean. There is NO MMO that is the best simply because there is so many catagorys that you have to catagorize them into.
OH and popularity means jack crap lol... worst statement that ive ever read imo and I think many will agree.
Surely when you say WoW is the best 'dungeon-crawler' you are expressing your self-opinion. Because D& D Online would surely be a rival to that title by fans of that mmorpg?
I guess that is indeed the clue. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the most important things said about WOW. No matter how you classify WOW, let's not argue over niche-names, but I think in this theme park quest based MMO sort, which apparently is attractive to the majority of MMO gamers (as much as I like sandboxes too), it is probably the best of it's sort of MMOs.
That's not to say that even if you like theme parks that other games fit your speciality better. Like I prefer EQ2, because I loath the cartoony graphics, so even inside that sort of games it wasn't my kind. But one has to differ between personal tastes and what works apparently for most. I think there is much truth in the OPs analysis.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Making a bold statment like this will have you reading this post till the end. What I am saying from stating that World Of Warcraft is not the best MMORPG, but only the best of its kind has meaning toward it. Saying a game is the best only calculates ignorance and failiure to understand marketing and developer design. World Of Warcraft was made to simulate an updated version of Everquest back in the day with only new graphics, content, and lore, while keeping the barebones of that type of MMO in tact. To be all fair WoW wasnt innovative at all, they simply took something that already worked and pushed it into the main stream of a piece of lore called Warcraft that was widely sucessful. Dont believe me? Look at Warcraft 3 a game released in 2002 when Blizzard was well aware of the scripting needed to create a MMO such as Everquest. So what did they do? Copy the lore and paste it into the game while adding different textures to simulate a 3d game with a thrid to first person perspective instead of a overview RTS perspective.
Saying this you are probably wondering why do I care? You just dissed my fav game! <--- Ignorance. Saying someone dissed a game after they said it was the best of its kind is pure ignorance. WoW is the best of its kind because its the best Dungeon crawler around. The game physically lacks almost no story because you have to read it, and the syncronization of the dungeons isnt really story based, its more combat based. Saying this is sort of a kick to the nuts to WoW players because what I said is true, do you really see the story evolving like it does in games such as Final Fantasy 11/14, Lord Of The Rings, Age Of Conan, and even a minor one in Vindictus? No you dont because Blizzard has copied so to speak the style of Everquest, combat based progression. Saying this is in context of the average now a days player that doesnt read text, but only calculates the perfect strat against a raid boss. Back in the day all that was needed was text to progress a story, but for a player to feel more involved with a storys progression they need voice overs, cinematics, and even phasing in some spots of the trade.
Stating all of that I say WoW is the best dungeon crawler of its time. By only copying the barebones of Everquest and re skinning it to there lore Blizzard made one of the biggest MMOs of all time, but not the best because perfection will drive people away from your game... just ask Aion LOL.
Best Dungeon Crawler MMO: World Of Warcraft
Best Story Based MMO: LOTR Online
Best PVP Based MMO: World Of Warcraft
Best PVP Progression MMO: Warhammer Online
Best Sandbox MMO: Eve Online
Best F2P MMO: Guild Wars (Guild wars is technically a F2P in my book knowing you only have to pay for the game once.)
Hope you all enjoyed this and I hope the flames dont crumble this thread even know its bound to,
Azzthuras
PS, sorry for some spelling errors here and there... im human.
WoW Isnt The Best In MMORPG Gaming, But The Best Of Its Kind.
I agree with you the reason why ? ' its a secret" lolz
Even if i play Eve for about 2 years now i have to disagree, all the setting around the pvp in Eve is NOT PVP. It is fun to deal with huge alliances but it is not pvp. Pvp is the fact that 2 players can kill each other as they please or not. Eve has a majority of gankfest, gate camping and disloyal fight. Killing a hulk in 0.0 IS NOT PVP, its like killing critters in WOW. I have seen in 2 years in Eve 1 real PVP fight that was worth calling it PVP. When you do a fight 20 vs 10 some might call it pvp i call it gankfest, until the 10 comes back with 30 friends and ganks the other 25 back. Skills between 2 characters might do so much diffence that it could be compared to pvp a 10 vs a lv 80, again no pvp here.
The bad thing about Eve is that when you are killed by someone usually you never got a chance to beat him, it is rarely an even fight, either they were more ship/players than youor you were in a carebear ship or the opponent had twice your amount of skill point in combats skills.
That is why i say that wow has better pvp than Eve.
You have a very narrow view on what is ment by Player vs. Player. Killing people is just a very small aspect of it. The wiki definition is actually fairly good, I like to use a broader definition. Not the pure combat aspect of it.
"PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. In computer role-playing games, PvP is often called player killing or PKing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_vs._player
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Comments
So you think that rated Arena's and Battlegrounds are a joke ?
Ok, now give us another game with the same number of BG's,:Arena's:RvR fights and real price money in E-sports.
And before you do the counting: there's around 40 different Bg's spread over 85 levels in the next expansion.
I am looking forward to the 3 choices of play in Cata: rated, non rated and guild vs guild on invite (wargames). Tol Barad, world ganking in archeology and Capitol City raids (a breeze with the now available flying mounts ).
"fuckin joke"? No problem: you can always ignore it all.
ah of course, because theres a bunch of attention given to the games pvp content (outside the game) then it must be good right? The pvp in the game is an unbalanced piece of shit. If DAoC and WoW pvp were to get in a fight, WoW pvp would be lying in a pool of its own blood. DAoC pvp didn't have the greatest balance either, but it was a hell of a lot more meaningful and epic. WoW pvp is largely about matchups and luck once you learn the basics of your class. Yep. WoW pvp is better because people play it for money. Please. PMR. nuff said.
HAHA You sir are retarded. WoW was released November 23rd, 2004. They just had there 5 year aniversery so you must not play WoW at all.
I put WoW as the best PVP MMO because of the fact it has the most popularity in MLG style competitions. It would be stupid puting a game like DaoC as the top one when no competitions are held.
Azzthuras, I disagree with you.
One element doesn't make a MMO the "Best" or even good.
While everything has its flaws, it's pretty clear that World of Warcraft has had many successful elements to make it hands down the best MMO on the market ever. You might not agree, but evidently 11 million other people seem to have that view. It's a rather convincing number that no other MMO is close to.
When you're pulling in millons (many) of dollars in a year off subscriptions alone, you're clearly doing more than one thing right.
WoW is pound for pound the best MMO ever.
And I say that as a former player that is bored as hell of the game.
There are many good games out there, but evidently there were not enough successful elements in them to propel them to WoW's level of success.
so your argument is the number of sales or subscriptions of a game makes it the 'best game' ever? Ok lets do this thing where we look at other games, and films. Titanic one of the best-selling films of all time- also gained a lot of awards- best film ever? Or how about Fifa on the consoles- selling ridiculous numbers- best game ever?
Its why best is subjective. And quite apparent a sheep effect- you know why Blizzard release their numbers all the time? To give people this false conclusion. Make up your own mind what game you play.
What is the best is not always subjective, in many occasions it can also be measured. However, popularity is not one of those measures. Popularity is a measure of success.
The OP seems to confuse popularity with being the best.
-------
Also, the best PvP MMO is no doubt EVE. The whole concept of the game revolves around players competing against each other. Player vs. Player concept has a lot more under it's umbrella than mindless open world PvP, scenario based battlegrounds and set stage arenas. The basics include things like:
Diplomacy and alliances.
Control of Resources.
Control of areas.
Economy
EVE is the only game that has successfully incorporated a complex PvP environment that looks beyond mindless killing. It is the only game where you can really play different roles that imitate real-life "PvP".
You can become a leader of massive inter-galactic alliance. In control of dozens of star systems.
You can become a spy who infiltrates the above corporation in order to sabotage it or simply to report to his own alliance.
You can become a lonely or small corp. pirate that preys on innocent traders.
You can become a mercenary who offers his services to the highest bidder.
You can become a trader that control the market for certain resources.
You can become a hauler that specializes on sensitive and hard to transport cargo.
You can become an industrialist.
You can become a researcher.
And so on. Options go far and wide. You could probably even invent a new profession that you aim to master. All the above is also connected into PvP environment. You do not have to take part in PvP battles in order to be part of the PvP experience in EVE. Pretty much everything you do in EVE is connected to the PvP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Is this where someone comes in and states that McDonald's is the best restaurant in the world because it has more locations and sells more food then any other on Earth? Personally, I like Wendy's myself, or Burger King as opposed to eating at McD's.. But if I have the time to sit down and actually enjoy dinner.. I'll cough up the extra $$$ for Applebees, Chili's or Outback.. I guess this is why we have so many different restaurants out there.. to each their own depending on mood and flavor..
Not sure why people are giving the OP crap. For objective reasons, WOW's PVP pretty clearly is the best true PVP experience to exist in a MMORPG.
The fact that people are giving him crap is exactly why I feel zerg PVP needs a completely separate term (without "PVP" in it). Because anyone who'd insult WOW's PVP is looking for a zergy, casual-tilted world player combat sort of experience (EVE/DF/etc). And that's not really true PVP.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Perhaps over simplifying things for people like you is a bad approach, or maybe you need it simplified more?
World of Warcraft has managed to develop their game in a fashion to where it is both playable and enjoyable for a wide variety of people.
Blizzard has managed to provide a very successful pvp element in the form of battlegrounds and arena content, various pve elements from questing, larger raiding contents, and smaller dungeon-type content, along with a very successful crafting scheme, and collecting elements in the game.
They done enough to provide many different people with different views of what is "Best" something they enjoy and are willing to subscribe to en masse.
I'm not foolish enough to believe that subscriptions mean nothing at all. Numbers are a pretty good broad estimation of quality.
Where did I say that one element makes a game the best? I didnt, I simply catagorized WoW as the best Dungeon crawler and PVP MMO out there. For all you saying WoW isnt the best PVP game, why is it a recognized E-Sport? Why is it ballenced? Aion for sure isnt ballenced, Warhammer is sure as hell not ballenced, and EVE may be but that game almost deserves its own sub catagory haha.
Re read my statements before you flame on my thread, it only leads to the 2/3rd of this thread posters that see what I mean. There is NO MMO that is the best simply because there is so many catagorys that you have to catagorize them into.
OH and popularity means jack crap lol... worst statement that ive ever read imo and I think many will agree.
i dont know but i really think that since we are in november 2010 we might be closer to 6th year than 5th...
Thats if you use estimated statistics... but technically it still is 5 years, ALMOST 6. Plus he was still 3 years off haha.
Even if i play Eve for about 2 years now i have to disagree, all the setting around the pvp in Eve is NOT PVP. It is fun to deal with huge alliances but it is not pvp. Pvp is the fact that 2 players can kill each other as they please or not. Eve has a majority of gankfest, gate camping and disloyal fight. Killing a hulk in 0.0 IS NOT PVP, its like killing critters in WOW. I have seen in 2 years in Eve 1 real PVP fight that was worth calling it PVP. When you do a fight 20 vs 10 some might call it pvp i call it gankfest, until the 10 comes back with 30 friends and ganks the other 25 back. Skills between 2 characters might do so much diffence that it could be compared to pvp a 10 vs a lv 80, again no pvp here.
The bad thing about Eve is that when you are killed by someone usually you never got a chance to beat him, it is rarely an even fight, either they were more ship/players than youor you were in a carebear ship or the opponent had twice your amount of skill point in combats skills.
That is why i say that wow has better pvp than Eve.
World of Warcraft has managed to develop their game in a fashion to where it is both playable and enjoyable for a wide variety of people.
Blizzard has managed to provide a very successful pvp element in the form of battlegrounds and arena content, various pve elements from questing, larger raiding contents, and smaller dungeon-type content, along with a very successful crafting scheme, and collecting elements in the game.
They done enough to provide many different people with different views of what is "Best" something they enjoy and are willing to subscribe to en masse.
I'm not foolish enough to believe that subscriptions mean nothing at all. Numbers are a pretty good broad estimation of quality.
No basically your argument is completely fanboied. There is no such thing as best mmo in the same way, there is no best racer or best sports title. To make a statement such 'WoW is the best mmo' just reaks of fanboism and to be honest a complete lack of playing any other mmorpgs.
Re read my statements before you flame on my thread, it only leads to the 2/3rd of this thread posters that see what I mean. There is NO MMO that is the best simply because there is so many catagorys that you have to catagorize them into.
OH and popularity means jack crap lol... worst statement that ive ever read imo and I think many will agree.
Surely when you say WoW is the best 'dungeon-crawler' you are expressing your self-opinion. Because D& D Online would surely be a rival to that title by fans of that mmorpg?
I agree with this. WoW is good in nearly everything but not the best in any one thing.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I guess that is indeed the clue. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the most important things said about WOW. No matter how you classify WOW, let's not argue over niche-names, but I think in this theme park quest based MMO sort, which apparently is attractive to the majority of MMO gamers (as much as I like sandboxes too), it is probably the best of it's sort of MMOs.
That's not to say that even if you like theme parks that other games fit your speciality better. Like I prefer EQ2, because I loath the cartoony graphics, so even inside that sort of games it wasn't my kind. But one has to differ between personal tastes and what works apparently for most. I think there is much truth in the OPs analysis.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
WoW Isnt The Best In MMORPG Gaming, But The Best Of Its Kind.
I agree with you
the reason why ? ' its a secret" 
lolz
You have a very narrow view on what is ment by Player vs. Player. Killing people is just a very small aspect of it. The wiki definition is actually fairly good, I like to use a broader definition. Not the pure combat aspect of it.
"PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. In computer role-playing games, PvP is often called player killing or PKing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_vs._player
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."