Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
F2P The fall of good MMO's
Kassidius
Member Posts: 9
Ive been thinking about this for a while, and what better place to post it than here.
Basically F2P MMO's are runing the genre, with acceptions like guild wars and guild wars 2 .
F2P mmo's are generally poor quality, quickly made and charge too much for simple items that shouldnt even have a place
in MMO's. (xp boosts damage boosts, better armor weapons etc etc)
The F2P system which should be called P2W because many of these games have lack luster PVP and high end content
That requires you to spend far too much to compete creating a "pay to win" environment.
Now lots of people out there see a MMO that is charging $15 a month that provides a complete and balanced game
environment that everyone can compete in and they start whining, I dont want to pay $15 a month but yet they turn around
and spend $30 in a month on XP boosts, damage boosts, better potions, a fancy hat and yet they dont see how rediculous
this is.
Just think about it like this, if a company makes its money off cash store items, where do you think there development focus
will be? hint: (its focused on content, items and ways to make you buy cash shop items) Not on providing a solid game
with solid content.
People dont realize that more and more companys are making there games F2P because they have realized they actually
make more money this way!.
I understand the benefits of F2P (more players and ofcorse its free) well nothing in life is free theres always a catch.
F2P games are ruining the MMO genre and its so blatantly obvious that I dont understand how more people arnt up in arms
about it.
Please discuss.
Comments
I don't think it's so much the free-to-play model as opposed to how it's handeled. If these free to play companies offered things such as extra content (such as dungeons, costumes, and cosemetical items), then I don't think there would be so much of a problem. People like the free to play model over the pay to play model because, in theory, people know exactly what they are paying for. If people want more content, then they gotta shovel out some more money. If they are content with their level on content, then they don't have to. Whereas the pay-to-play model, people don't really understand what they are paying for. They just see that "$15/month" and expect more. Obviously, in practice, the free-to-play model isn't following what the ideal idea would be.
Also you can't include GW1 and GW2 in the free-to-play model, because they are buy to play. You buy the box, and you play the game.
Off-topic: Why do you split up your sentences? Please finish your sentence and then move onto the next line, rather than entering in the middle of your sentence. It's rather annoying to see something like "and the
cat was eating a
grenade".
Also: www.how-to-spell-ridiculous.com
Not trying to flame, or making fun of you. Just trying to let you know that although this may be the internet, if you want people to take you seriously, you need to at least be somewhat grammatically correct. This means spelling, and puncuation should be somewhat correct, and you should have a good balance between 1 lined paragraphs versus extremely long paragraphs. If you don't, people will end up viewing your post as a troll attempt, or complaining.
Back on topic, sorta: I think this would be included in the free-to-play vs pay-to-play discussion that we already have going in this forum.
I don't consider most of the f2p MMOs a real game. I could be wrong, but I envision mostly young teens playing it. Not sure how they make any money, but I guess the Koreans love them some lame shallow gameplay. Maybe that is why WoW is so huge in Asia? Its has tons of depth compared to PW, Last Chaos, and jokes like that.
I don't see them as ruining good MMOs. In fact, if anything they should make subscriptions based games even better, because they should realize we can play with the f2p turds. Its not the f2p genre's fault that devs are pretty much clueless as to what gamers want. It should have been obvious to Mythic what their past fans wanted. They didn't come close to delivering.
Anyways, I think far too many people are looking to blame anyone but the real villians. Its the idiots who create these junk games, then expect people to pay a subscription on top of a $50 entrance fee.
F2P payment model brings to market games that never would have seen the light of day in a P2P world, breath new life into aging/underperforming titles, and are preferred by a wide variety of gamers.
Good MMO's have declined for many reasons, but the F2P model is hardly a major factor in said decline.
No reason to demonize this payment model, you don't like it, fine, don't play them (I normally don't) but don't blame the plethoria of bad games in the past 6 years on F2P, more rational to blame Blizzard for creating WOW.
ER...no, that's not rational either.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know that DDO has really started sucking, what with introducing all the new classes and races we were waiting for. Also, LOTRO is well known as a horrible that just got worse when it went F2P. The only good games are the ones that you pay for, like Matrix Online, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online, APB, Crimecraft, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Trek Online, etc.
Hopefully I offended everyone with that list....
I'm also slightly suspicious that the OP made his account today in order to say that, but anything is possible.
Who am I?
@Lorechaser on CoH
Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner)
Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry)
ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside
Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO
And many more.
I don't really want to be a douche here but....
Spellcheck. It's there for a reason. I can understand common typos like 'teh' or 'there' instead of 'their', but the OP was just way beyond the pale. Even if you aren't a native english speaker, you can at least use get decent enough translation software to spell things correctly.
I don't believe you.
I think you got it backwards.
It's not that F2P caused the downward spiral for MMORPGs, it's rather that the long string of badly made P2P games caused the rise of the F2P ones.
And yes, I can even understand it, why pay a subscription for a badly-made game when you can play a badly-made game for free?
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Here's the way I see it:
Advantages/disadvantages of P2P:
+ ~$15 is pretty cheap for a months-worth of entertainment
+ Everyone playing is on an equal level - no one is uber-powerful because they have the money to pay for it. (Ofc some people have more time to spend making their characters uber-powerful but let's not go into that)
+ People feel less cheated if they pay one fee and get everything in the game
- People feel compelled to play more to get their moneys worth
- Designers feel compelled to make levelling time-consuming or add in grindy parts to the levelling curve to keep people playing for as long as possible to get as many monthly payments as possible
- Rigid and inflexible. Someone who spends less time playing and plays less content in a month will pay the same as someone who plays many hours and plays through lots of content in a month.
Advantages/disadvantages of F2P:
+ It's possible to play the game at no cost at all - great for people who are skint or live in a poor part of the world
+ Flexibility - play whenever you want, as much as you want. Pay for whatever you want, spend however much you want.
+ Playing with a friend and (s)he's a few levels higher, but you want to be able to run the same content? Buy your way up to his/her level!
- With some games it's unfair when someone willing to invest a ridiculous amount of money gets a huge advantage over everyone else
- Designers are often compelled to slant the design towards making people pay for things
- People feel cheated when a game is labelled "Free!" only to be asked to pay for some content
Personally I think Guild Wars' B2P and LOTRO's hybrid models are superior in terms of flexibility and design. I hope to see more games follow their example.
Always read the small print.
I just have to pipe in.. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with F2P games.. F2P is just a different form of payment.. Actually NO different then buying gas to heat your home, or run your automobile.. F2P means you "pay as you go".. nothing more.. When you buy gas do you pay $15 a week regardless if you need the gas or not? OH HELL NO.. Granted people that drive all day long would LOVE that method of payment because it's cheaper, but for others, it's foolish..
Take me for example.. I'm very active from March to Nov. each year.. I'm lucky to play 2 hours a week online.. Why should I pay $15 a month? F2P would be more suitable to me.. I may pay more during the winter months, but summer months it would be next to nothing at all.. If I deside to take a "year" off from playing.. I pay NOTHING and can jump back in at anytime and play for free (if I don't buy addons".. or pay for expansions or level increases as I need them.. F2P is my preference
over the long term.. Subscription are more for diehard gamers
+1, and I can't even honestly stand the their/there/they're mistake or the its/it's. Not sure they still teach grammar in schools today, but they should surely focus on giving grammar and spelling their right place at school.
I love how when americans have no real input in a conversation they become grammar police.
Look at the posts before. Look at my post, where I give you constructive criticism on your idea, and then tell you about proper english. As I said, if you want to be taken seriously here, you have to, at least, look like you know English. The first thing people here look at is whether or not you used reasonably good english.
Oh right cause people with bad grammar never have valid points.....
Ruining? I will say making the genre better. Now you can sample more games without shelfing out $40. It is perfect for game hopping.
Research has shown that most players don't pay a dime.
P2P = Pay to Win.
I dont see any way for people that dont want to pay, to compete with paying player in any P2P game... so this makes it the ultimate Pay to Win.
I just see the OP complaining that they do not get enough for free... and are offended that they should pay for the 'better' experience. In business, there is a saying, 'The customer is always right.' The catch is, to be a customer, you need to actually pay.
F2P games are much better player orientated than P2P games. Think about it, in order to survive they have to actually provide content people want to view.
[object Window]
[object Window]
No.
They provide content you want to purchase and the easiest way to do that is to make the original content as crappy as possible.
Payment model doesn't make a game bad brah.
A game being bad makes it bad.
Actually F2P are going to save the MMO genre.
Sad as it is to say, pretty much no MMO that has been or is going to be released will be able to directly compete with WoW. It is an F5 tornado that is ripping through the subscription trailer park sucking everything into it.
This is why most AAA fail. It isnt because they are bad games, unfinished, etc etc. It is because people are not going to leave a game like WoW that they have invested so much time into. They LOVE WoW. They arent going to take a chance on spending 40-60$ on a box for a different flavor candy when they cant get enough of the candy they are on now. WoW has had 6 years of development, content, polish, expansions, etc, etc and is getting a new expansion in 2 days.
*disclaimer: I have not played WoW since they got rid of the pvp 1-14 ranking system and generally do not like the game since it has sucked the life out of the subscription based model*
F2P is what is going to allow companies to make games and make money. It is going to draw more people in since there is nothing holding them back but a download. It is going to bring innovation to the MMO market more so than what is happening with AAA games.
All that happens with AAA now is they try to copy WoW step for step changing maybe 1 or 2 things and calling it a new game. All they are is a vanilla ice cream cone in a waffle bowl. Its basically the same thing.
To the OP's post, however long you may have been thinking about it, I'm afraid you're simply repeating the same tired arguments that get tossed around here ad nauseum.
People need to quit scapegoating F2P as some of sort of figurehead and cause for the plethora of crappy MMO's out these days. The P2P side hasn't been any better for quite some time, and it's taught game-makers that they can get away with offering crap and still come out ahead. It just so happens that this realization left the doors open for a whole load of pre-existing games, from a region where the F2P payment model was predominant, that needed little more than a localization and recompile to be introduced to new markets.
The real difference is that I can sift through a whole stack of F2P games, and window-shop their cash shops to get an early warning, without paying a box fee, or hope there's some sort of buddy key system for each and every attempt. A gamemaker that believed in their product's quality and longevity wouldn't be demanding a $60 cover charge before I even reach the character creation screen.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
I resubbed to LoTRO after I tried the F2P for a while. Honestly they have a GREAT system for a casual player, the amount of content they woud need to buy over time would likely be equal to or less than a subscription, I, however, play enough that I burned through the content quick enough that a subscription was more economical. Yes, I can still buy things in the LoTRO store, but I haven't found the need to yet and if I do Turbine is giving me 500 points a month for subbing and I also earn points in game so I don't see me needing to purchase points, ever.
Stupid argument. You won't even start playing if the original content is crappy. I play LOTRO a bit, it is not crappy. I played DDO a bit, it is not crappy. I played Allod a bit, it is not crappy.
Depends how the content/items are handled imo. If you can buy gear that gives any kind of stats..that's bad. Item shops should consist of cosmetics and mounts at most. I think LOTRO handles it fairly well, especially considering you can earn points through grinding.
I disagree. They tend to be far grindier, but quality wise there are at least several f2p that exceed the quality of most p2p games by a long shot.
The simple reality is... for every one good p2p/f2p game released there are 10 pieces of crap.
Nothing new, move along.
Shadus
Actually, F2P (with item shops) is essentially the same thing as that SoE package deal, life support for a dying genre. That's ok, it means that many many of the not very desirable player types will go play free stuff, hopefully leaving the remaining community as at least semi-socially conscious levels.
Thing with F2P (with item shops) is that the business model is setup to abuse people with uncontrollable spending problems. Those types end up paying the mmo bills, while everyone else either play for free or barely spend anything. It's unethical, and by supporting it, F2P players are, for lack of a better word: communists!
(actually communism is something completely different, but yea, you americans have a nasty definition of it so it works here!)
And what's wrong with a subscription service anyway? It's cheaper than your basic cable, phone or even internet packages, and no one seems to have any issue paying for those eh.