Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
learning removal made you try/join EvE again ?
cosy
Member UncommonPosts: 3,228
in EVE Online
Many new player drooped eve because of learning skills i just want to know how many of you joined EvE again because learning skills get removed
from 1 to 10 how much the learning removal was important to you ?
1 none
|
10 decisive
BestSigEver :P
Comments
I wish they had kept the learning skills.
I played EVE off and on since it started but lost interest. The learning skills had nothing to do with it.
My leaving EVE had nothing to do with the skills either. For me, it was 2 factors:
1 - ludicrous downtime getting from place to place, I often had 15-20 minutes of realtime doing nothing more than getting to another area. That's 15-20 minutes of staring at the screen and not playing.
2 - Open PvP. Can't stand it. I have no interest in killing others or being killed. If the game would've just let me PvE along and mine, all by my lonesome, I might've stayed. If the above had been addressed, I definitely would've stayed. Oh, and I HATE being dependent upon others in a game, so the 'bring some friends' bit holds no interest for me.
Happy gaming, and let me know if they ever decide to have PvE servers.
did the 5 days free offer they have going. spent my skill points and loaded my queue up. couldnt bring myself to undock and do anything else, it's that freakin boring.
The removal is good for new players as it does two things:
After mucking about, in the past, many new players will realise that they have to spend time training up training skill to get on. This can takes months and stops the new players from - er - playing. Pointless.
By increasing new pilots rate of learning (now learning skills have gone), it is possible to fly stuff quicker; definately a win. I think that new players should get 5 million SP points once the subscribe personally too - again make the game quicker to get into.
Buying SP (limited to X mill per year) would also encourge new players too.
Obviously this is likely to hack off many veterns who have done it the hard way; but the only way for a game to survive and grow is for "fresh meat" to feel that there is a chance that they can compeat with the experience players. Personally I would give the vets the option of advance training of some skills to 6, hell why not turn them up to 11
There is no way a new player will ever catch up to the verterns the statement " fresh meat " is how new players are looked at and talked about.
MAGA
For the love of god, please stop lying about "catching up". It's getting embarrassing now. It's OK if you want to trash talk EVE but please, find something new. Do it for the children.
Finite number of skills that can apply in any situation? Check!
Level cap on those skills? Check!
Therefore new players can certainly "catch up" in any specific ship QED. I realise that "facts" and "logic" aren't what you're after, but... there they are.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Catching up to vets skillwise has already throughly been addressed. It has been readdressed. The discussion about the readdressment was discussed. When will people ever get it? I have nearly 100 mil sp, you aren't catching me. Ship types/mods are governed by certain skills. If you train them to V, you have the EXACT(NOTE THE EMPHASIS ON EXACT) amount of sp in that ship, as me.
If Malcanis who likes laser beams and Amarr ships, trains Amarr Battleship to V, Large Energy Weapons to V, Large Pulse Laser Spec to IV, etc, etc, and after 4-5 months, you do the same...where exactly is this huge abyss in difference in SP?
I would like an intelligent, note---INTELLIGENT---response to this. I don't think there is one.
As to the Learning Skills being removed, it simply comes down to time investment. On the short end (read NEW players), it's a boon. As a Vet, it was something else that I had maxed out but who cares. Overall, it's a good thing. Learning skills/Advanced learning skills were only there to make training the level V and rank higher skills a bit more palatable to me.
I never, ever advised a newb to train learning above IV before training a frig and cruiser to IV, some turret/missile system to IV and a few of the support skills to V, first. All the named skills in each cat are rank I skills, thus they train to V in about 4 days, give or take.
I have always given that advice as those are really the only level V skills that are worth it in your first 6 months anyway.
It will assist recruiting. On the other hand, if someone whined and threw toys from their prams over it...maybe they weren't patient enough for EvE. I sort of thought of them as skills that tested your impulse control. As I trained mine many moons ago, I constantly wanted to change it(no skillqueue back then) but it forced me to wait it out.
Maybe I view it differently, but I never expected to be handed anything. EvE is a cold and dark place, you must earn your keep or whine on the forums if you are to survive.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
I came back after I heard about the elimination of learning skills. I already had my learning skills trained though.
I can only wish that I was reimbursed more skillpoints than what I had been. (I felt like I invested much more than I was given back.)
My other motivation for coming back is DUST514. I can only hope that the game is cleaned up a bit. It tends to look like an unpolished Halo. My only fear is that there will be a lack of players for DUST514 and the amount of dependence Eve Online will have on it...
2
DUST514 would be great and I'd resub EvE ... if it were on the pc. I know its off topic but I still can't get over limiting it to consoles, I absolutely hate console fps if its not spray and pray eye candy like Left 4 Dead.
1
ran 1 PVE mission then remembered how crap the combat was.... sorry.
I play Darkfall, im sure you can see why I think this.
Hmmm, being a player for a straight 7 years plus, had no problem with the removal of the learning skills, and, the redistribution of those skills, 5.76 mill in all, but, to be honest, would have loved for them to go further now, all 4 race tier 1 frigate skills, and, all tier 1 small weapon skills, would have been a wonderful bonus. This way, everyone new would be able to fly any frigate tier 1 ingame, and, be able to use any tier 1 small weapon right from the beginning, and, allow more ppl to get into specialization quicker. After all, most new pilots who research before they try, can usually get into a decent T2 frigate within a few weeks now, why not make it a couple days instead and have the new players happy seeing some progression.
I always looked at learning skills in EvE, not as an improvement, but a useless time sink to basically counter balance the "added" time that it would take to learn skills.. Since every skill is based on time, they could raise this amount of time globally and in order to get the natural skill advancement times you would have to learn another skill which takes time.. Since time is money, the longer you are learning skills (even if its a skill to "increase" your learning speed) the longer you are going to hang around to reap its benefits..
I never hung around long enough to get my learning skills all the way up (because people were telling me how long they would take and how "important" they were. Learning a skill to learn another faster? item Mall XP potions anyone?), because i kinda felt like it was a fluke. They were better off unmasking it and selling a "premium" sub with faster learning times..
it's not like those skills could be maxed in a decent amount of time, so most people learned at a handicapped speed..
it brought me back that and the email for 5 day activation. i re activated all 4 accounts. took the time to put all goods and ships and money onto one account with my highest skill character. and i even used isk to get 30 day sub for that account.
i play darkfall 90% of my time. but out of that 50% of that time is harvesting and harvesting in darkfall is easy accept iron ore. but i play eve at the same time now. use extra monitor for eve. and mine. while main monitor played 2 or 3 darkfall accounts.
i love that eve takes less then 500mb of ram, Darkfall close to 1gb each.
getting the points back helped a bit.
but on my main i screwed up. i really want interceptor skill. i forgot about needed a nav skill 5 manuovering i think i have 6 day left for that now, then i can fly one. i have nice plan to pimp it out as one fastass ship
10/10. I had 3mil sp, from which 1,8 were in learnings. When the reimburstment came i jumped from drake to raven, learned some more skills and started doing level 4 missions. I am quite happy with this change and now i will be able to farm PLEXes easily without paying anymore for the game
So basically everyone who joined in the beginning of game are overpowered over others who decide to start playing now?
Keep on rockin'!
I haven't come back to EVE but I know one of the main reasons I quit was because of the learning skills. The game being this old the way skills were done a new player could NEVER catch up to a veteran.
But to be honest it wasn't the only reason I quit, this is a niche game and i'm just not apart of that niche.
This game was never been about catching up vets or whatever. There is no single situation where ALL of your skills are taken into consideration. And if EVE is a niche game for you, i was wondering which game isnt ?
Removal of learning skills is the right thing to do but I quit because Eve didn't interest me anymore and they pushed back their combat upgrade from the way of fluff updates. I may visit it if they revamp the combat and UI eventually, but not before.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
to keep the things simple for some ppl i let this in here
if you ever think about catching up in
EvE you dont get EvE
BestSigEver :P
Wrong.
pushing the 25.whatever skillpoints now. I fly ships with "all 5's" - I've CAUGHT UP to many.
2 mill SP? You can't do dink. 4 mill? Lame duck. 8 mill... Getting there. Once you get the support skills up enough to fit the ships and get your weapons skills up to fire at the same point as any other pilot in those ships - you have caught up and it is LESS than a year to do that if you focus.
How long someone's played and how many SP they have above me... that means LITTLE any more. What I know how to do with what I have CHOSEN to fly means far more. I see more meat heads that don't know the "little things" like... Netron blasters have a base 3.5 sec duration compared to electrons at 2.0. That my times using those weapons are more like 2.6 to 1.5 and that the DPS is not what I watch all the time -- volleys is my counter and that isn't made obvious by most tools about this game.
I know that this kind of tank works better in these situations but that I have found exceptions to about every "basic" rule. Its the kind of knowledge you get from combining reading/studying of the game with hands-on experience.
Catching up? Hell yes. You can EXCEED what many of the senior types "know" and your SP... you can catch up, for any give ship in the game. They just get more options on what they choose is all and that doesn't mean more options to win -- that's simply more DIFFERENCES on what to fly.
--------------
To the OP: I can't comment on this as a new player but I CAN tell you bluntly that the advice on how to start this game is RADICALLY different.
No more "smart to learn learning" -- it's now "smart to learn cybernetics - then decide what you want to learn".
One of the biggest question I've had to deal with lately is "how do I pick what to train now?" -- "look at the certs. See those "core" certs? If you aren't sure what to train, those are 'core' to almost every ship in the game so focus on them."
THEN I'll begin getting into how to decide what you want to do and "focused training" based upon attribute remaps, etc... It's a much more compressed version of training plan management than it used to be and the new folks show a hell of a lot more excitement than I'd seen in the previous year.
They actually get to see their ship and gunnery skills getting better day-by-day instead of over a month of no improvement to "play EVE smart".
no sir you are wrong you make the assumption that all ppl want to fly big ships o just fly ships in general
BestSigEver :P
Not quite. There is no assertion of big ships and the larger you aim, the longer it will take.
Small ships are trained up far faster than larger ships. As such, you can "master" a frigat class ship fairly quickly. If it's a titan you're into -- you will spend years getting "mastery" but a smaller ship? They are quick and easy to get into plus you can "catch up" much faster the smaller you aim.
For other activities, marketing for instance; the skills needed to "master" are much less than ships with guns. You can be flying a freighter very quick and easy compared to flying a Rattlesnake or Marauder with "top skills" and so on.
The idea that you HAVE to be there is inaccurate but the mindset of "catching up" is not "playing EVE wrong". Evening out the SP differences is a core goal of most newer players yet the lack of understanding that it only provides additional options beyond a point, not "wining" but different options, seems misunderstood by most.
As I quit EVE just prior to this change I've received several promotions tryig to encourage me to come back that use the skill removal as the enticement, so it obviously was felt to be a big barrier to more people playing.
In my case its not,once your characters cross the 50M SP barrier, what's a few million more points to re-invest?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All the Eve proponents love to spit out the same old arguement. Pick a small ship and you are up and running fast. Riiiiight. So, the new Eve player spends a few weeks learning the game, playing PvE and getting his "core" skills mostly done for, say, a frigate or cruiser. He ventures out into lowsec for an exciting first taste of PvP. Soon enough, he is met by an opponent and still utterly raped. Why? Because a vet isn't going to usually PvP at such a pathetic level (namely T1 cruiser, etc.) unless he is wasting time or doing basically a kamikazee run for a bit of 'fun'. He is going to be in a T2 cruiser or above. Go look up the stats on a T2 something-or-other versus a T1. Now you are adding some serious train time to 'sit in' a T2 ship. Fine, add it to your nifty training planner. Oh, wait! You need to fit your T2 ship with T2 weapons or your range, tracking speed, damage, ammo is all subpar and each subpar aspect stacks up with the rest. Hmm, gotta add some more skills to handle those T2 weapons. Now your training planner bloats to months. Plenty of skills to train to boost every aspect of your ship, too! Speed, agility, shield capacity, shield regen, capacitor capacity, capacitor regen, armor resistances, etc. etc. etc. Many skills, at level V, is gonna tack on 25% to what it improves. Most T2 ships are built for a particular specialized 'role' and require another subset of skills to get rolling, too.
It is positively hilarious. You get the noobs (fresh meat) to join up with sweet words of "catching up" is unimportant, but then once they get in game and mention they are gonna buy a cruiser, you say "whoah, whoah! You can >sit< in the ship, but can you really >fly< it? Keep training first!"
I think the phrase 'catching up' is not correct. Most are just looking at how long it takes to get to SOME SEMBLANCE of equal equipment. God knows, they have a player skill deficit as well, so leaving such a character skill deficit as well is a bit difficult. Sure, the noob can hop in a T1 frigate and be 90% maxed out pretty well for that ship, but combining the fact that he has little player skill by comparison PLUS his T1 frig is no match for a T2 cruiser or BC leaves the above argument pretty hollow.
The Eve skill system is great for PvE but it's a real bitch for ppl who could not care less about PvE. They have no way to pass the time to get where they need to be.
Eve is a GREAT game, don't get me wrong. I just think if they could have come up with some way around this fundamental conundrum they would have a WoW-like following.