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Endgame should be soloable
CzechGuy
Member Posts: 86
I dont understand why endgame in MMO's is not soloable.
I enjoy talking to other people and the occasional group but it shouldnt be necessary to beat the endgame bosses.
My preferred playstyle is that of a solo hero. I think MMO developers need to value my playstyle as much as anyone else. We all pay the same subscription fees so we should all have access to the same content and have the same ability to beat that content and get all the rewards.
Raiding with other people at endgame is frustrating because most people are not very skilled and they screw things up and cause wipes. It also takes way to long to gear up because you have to split loot with lots of other people when you could have just kept it for yourself. Why should I have to share with anyoen if i do not want to? As a solo player I am very against this. Its basically socialism in gaming and thats wrong.
When i play MMO's i see myself as the hero who sets out on a great adventure who slowly gets more powerful until he defeats the greatest evil in the world. I should be able to go 1 on 1 with just my hero and tyhe great villain bosses and defeat them. Thats heroic. Its why we all play MMO's to be the hero! Its not very heroic for 10+ people to gang up on 1 enemy. Thats thug tactics IMO and its not heroic.
I am tired of MMO developers which ignore solo playstyles at endgame and it needs to change. There is no Group in MMORPG.
Comments
Thats what single player games are for not mmo's.
Endgame is multiplayer because it's a Multiplayer game.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
You get the same as everyone else. YOU decide not to make use of certain features or play the game a way it's clearly not meant to be played. Developer do not have to value anyones playstyle, they simply need to produce a game that is good and solid with should target there audience.
Hmm.. Last time I checked that is exactly why we have single player games. So you can be the hero of the game. MMO's are not designed around being able to solo the entire game. I think you are in the wrong genre of games :P
You guys need to look at this guys post history, one thread he says he wants huge raids, next he wants solo "endgame".
Nothing but a troll, move along people.
Yeah, if you look at this guy's posting history, you know that he is clearly a troll. You should see him over in the Rift section of the forums.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
Hey OP, check these games out. Solo end game :
(^you can co-op in this too if you want, best RPG of the decade too)
(^forced grouping but A.I. controlled so essentially its solo).
Let me know if you want more.
MMORPGs are multiplayer games and should have grouping content.
im sure someone will come out and say
if i want to solo its my choice, why are you telling me how to play a game?
ill just break that argument here and now
dont bring a HUMMER to a F1 race and then complain you can't win.
dont solo in a multiplayer game and then complain its not solo friendly.
want to play solo? play oblivion or final fantasy 7 or get a nintendo and play supermario
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
The games I stayed with for a long time were either:
1. pvp endgame (which needed groups) DAoC
2. raiding which needed a group EQ2
3. or my favorite..sandbox games where it didn't matter what you did (SWG pre cu) though grinding for jedi kept me in this game a LOONG time..still go back to it
Those people would be wrong. You could make the same argument that the second M means Guild, which would be just as wrong. Multiplayer just means more than one player. If there are two players in a game, and they are each trying to kill each other, then it's a multiplayer game. No groups, no guilds, but multiplayer just the same.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Completely agreed. I will say though that if a MMO allows you to play the majority of the game solo, then they ought to have some type of solo endgame progression- otherwise just leave soloing out of the game entirely as far as development attention and specific content go.
I sympathize with the OP, as end-game content is usually an impossible task unless you aren't grouped with players with down syndrome. But, good luck, because World of Warcraft and Xbox Live have brought on a generation of handicapped people incapable of doing anything right.
MMORPGs should still be a very group-heavy thing. But content should also be made that can entertain players like me who are sick of dealing with stupidity and incompetence.
Well, the OP is apparently a troll, but it brought up yet another discussion on this subject.
What I say to those who harp on about single player games being the avenue for solo play is that your logic is severely flawed. Single player games end, they stop receiving new content at some point, and they also don't have social interactions available (most of the time). Nothing about the word "multiplayer" remotely means that you are required to actually cooperate with others.
Asheron's Call is a good example of one of the grandfathers of the mmorpg being a solo friendly game. Most of that game could be completed solo, but there was content where it was advantageous to group up with others, even required for some quests. I could wander around killing and run into other people, we might stop and trade, talk or even group up, but it was our choice. Hell, we could just ignore each other and compete for the spawns in the area.
I loved Asheron's Call, because the towns were alive with people, you'd run into people in the oddest places, but for the most part it was me vs. the environment...alone.
While I don't agree that endgame should always be soloable, I do believe that there should be options for those who wish to keep improving with their character to be able to do so in a solo manner. Quite often in more recent mmorpgs, the leveling is solo, but the endgame is group required, and that is such an odd transisition. You're used to playing your way and at your pace, but now you're required to find other people with similar goals to accomplish anything.
It's impossible to make everyone happy, but I'd love to see a company take into account those who work odd hours, or who have other preferred playstyles, and give them some interesting options.
single player games end as much as MMOs do.
diablo 2 for example, you finish the game in hell mode, act 1 through 4 then grind mephisto and end bosses for armor drops and weapon drops until you reach lvl 99 then you reroll then when you have done everything and have the top armor lord of terror is released, with runes new dungeons and a whole new act, new stronger weapons and armor...
sounds familiar?
the only difference is that for diablo im not paying 15$/month
as for adding content, eventually in MMOs it stops too, vanguard, SWG,
your way of thinking is destroying what real gaming is... well used to be. where you got friends (forget about PUGS) but guild mates, real life friends, friends you met playing,
why do you think SWG pre-CU was so popular for its time? they had professions such as musician and dancers and entertainers, as well as doctors, (completely different from combat medics)because it relies on community. if you dont have time or patience to do things with guildmates/friends then you are clearely in the wrong genre. and yes, im telling you what not to play, i dont go play hockey with a soccer ball. i dont make a 1 man soccer team play against a full team then wonder why i lost,
devs don't have to cater to your playstyle, you have to pick the game that caters to yours
another example. its like bill gates going to McDonnalds and complaining that the manager does not want to give him a 7 course fine cuisine dinner made of kaviar, AAA premium beef steak and creme souflee as a desert. with a cup of red wine.
the managers of McD don;t have to cater to his eating habits, he has to go pick a restaurant that does.
Play offline RPGS simple. I´m tired off single player Gamer ruining Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games and demanding for more solo content in a game designed to play with others. If u wanna play alone go back to consoles or Oblivion & Co.
If that's the case, why is the rest of the game soloable? Multiplayer simply means you're playing the game with other people - not that you need their help to achieve your goals.
I think you make a noble point here.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
Those people wouldn't be "wrong." The word Multiplayer is synonymous with many other words, but synonymous means being alike or similar, not necessarily identical.
It's also pointless to have an entire genre dedicated to the idea of exploring the many facets of multiplayer scenarios if you're not going to explore and take advantage of those scenarios.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I hate the word endgame.. There should really be no "endgame", but I guess for casuals who would rather get the game over with so they can say they've done it and get on with their lives, the word has meaning.. Anywho..
Since soloability has become a "staple" of mmo's these days, making a complete start to finish solo mmo would be nothing more than a single player game with multiplayer capabilities... Who in their right minds would pay 15 bucks a month to play on a server alone the whole way? Don't say for the multiplayer function because you can get that from some other decent offline Rpg's (lets remember how popular Diablo 2 was for its multiplayer)..
Since developers gave people the option to play some content alone (pretty much the entire game) you have to expect them to make content for groups to tackle.. Why put this content near max level or around max level? It is basically to demonstrate how epic the monsters are supposed to be.. It's not to make you feel any less casual than you already are.. its not to piss you off so you have to spend all your precious time looking for groups.. They are basically saying that it is going to take a few of yall to bring this mutha down..
Don't expect the players to always end up being a "one man army" or god like.., sometimes you are going to need a little help thats why they give you all those players to run around with.. Despite what people in real life tell you, some virtual worlds do not revolve around you..
Soloing to the level cap is necessary because games become top heavy. If you required a group to level, then new players would never get to the level cap and the game dies. Same is true for alts. If a group is required, people can't role alts and get them leveled.
You have groups at end game because it brings people together. They meet up and then head off to run the dungeons or raids, and then head back to the meeting points, usually the major cities. The more people there are in the cities, the more people see other people doing the same thing they are doing and they play longer. People join guilds because you need to in order to do the highest content. It brings a lot of social pressure to play. If everyone is soloing their own little end game, that social pressure is gone and players don't play as much and are less likely to resub.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
its really sad to say but some losers would pay the 15 bucks a month to rome around in a mmo solo. Then on top of it complain to the devs that "the game is to hard" and "why are we forced to group with people". God forbid !!! My Question , what do you get out of a MMO by soloing it? The best part of an MMO is the team work value.... need a solo game try golf.
Partially wrong, it's only necessary in games that have devs that don't plan for such things- there are mechanics in MMOs today to alleviate this problem without catering to soloing.
Also, to respond to Vyeth's line in post #22 "Who in their right minds would pay 15 bucks a month to play on a server alone the whole way?" My fear is that Bioware is making a blockbuster game for these people.
Hate to say it guys but I am pretty sure MOST people prefer to solo most of the time. I think the number of soloers GREATLY outnumber hardcore groupers. They pay the bills.
Hell i loved to group in EQ. Now I have learned that the majority of you people are literally insane or very stupid. Not sure which is which, dont wanna find out. Matter of fact, the only stranger I want to group with these days are solo players.
Gone are the days of EQ bliss where you waited patiently for Orc Camp 1. Screw you guys, Im gonna solo some more untill I need some phat loots in that dungeon.
Game developers do make some idiot decisions. Real ID from Blizzard anyone? But solo leveling isn't one of them. They've had lots of time to look at the MMORPGs that are out there...ten years or more. They've seen what happens in games that require groups to complete leveling content. Solo Leveling is a mechanic that works. Group Leveling has caused issues for games' longevity in the past and there's no reason to think it won't do so in the future. Whatever mechanics are available didn't help enough to make developers think it was the way to go.
I don't know if the Solo Endgame was a real request or not and I don't know if there's every been an MMORPG that had a solo endgame. I imagine it will never exist for the same reason you don't have guild halls and player housing in games like WoW.
*edit* This all applies to the Western European/U.S. MMORPG market. In Asia, it's a different mentality and building games around group content to level works just fine.
*edit edit* duelkore - heh, you made me laugh. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.