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Ultima Online, 2.5D, Sprites, and Paperdolls.
Emergence
Member Posts: 888
What do you guys think of Ultima Online's graphics, Sprites, and Paperdolls?
What do you think of modern day gaming with this type of setup?
I really believe there is a capacity to provide amazing graphics that 3D models cannot obtain, by using Ultima Online's style of graphics.
Do you think a modern day Ultima Online should look something more like this? I must admit, excluding the paperdoll, I think the new graphics (Kingdom Reborn) are actually really awesome, even as a fan of classic 2D. Well, not the paperdolls, but definitely the rest.
Or do you prefer the original? I know I do. I love the 2D original.
Compared to Kingdom Reborn (or Third Dawn, LOL!), do you think modern graphics could go beyond this type of 2.5D, into something more 2011... like this?
I believe there is so much 2D can do over 3D. 3D is limited by hardware and polygon count. There are no polygons in a 2D game.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
I don't like 2d games, but I would play this
Out of curiosity, Did you ever try out Ultima Online?
Was that enticing in any way?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
2D for Ultima Online is just so much better. You're not limited when it comes to how much stuff you can stuff into 1 bag. But the 3D version you got squares showing how much you can put in. IMO its just all about your imagination, I see nothing wrong with 2D UO, yet I cant stand the 3D version either. Trust me, people want a real real 3D version of UO, but its just not possible. You would never be able to customize your house in 3D, like the way the 2D version does it.
I prefer the original client. Each of the newer clients (Third Dawn and Kingdom Reborn) seemed like a patchwork of 2D and 3D content. I think it's just because so many different artists worked on it over the years and so many different approaches were taken to the art style.
I think a decent MMO can still be made in 2.5D, or even 2D, if the art direction is consistent and the gameplay is engaging.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I idolize the graphical style of Ultima Online 2D.
The platemail armor and chain armor...omg I love it.
I loved everything about UO.
The only thing cooler I've ever seen is Dark Age of Camelot, and full plate with a tower shield as an Armsman.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Best game ever made. If the pop was there and it was a pre-trammel server I would be there in a heartbeat.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
This^^^
If only UOX hadn't been cancelled.
Damn you activision, damn you al to hell!
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Csthao, you realize you can turn that option on/off... you can play old style bags or new.
Both paperdoll examples are pretty weak. The graphics themselves are pretty good (aside from the older screenshot being completely mucked up with terrible UI.) The newer graphics are superior, but could certainly be accomplished in 2D if you weren't planning on fancy lighting effects.
The biggest downside of 2D iso is combat is noticably detached compared to typical 3rd person MMORPG camera systems. Immersion in general (the sense of being in a world) is pretty low when the camera is so detached.)
The biggest upside is an extremely low art cost for assets. It's also a great camera angle for letting users manipulate objects within the game world.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
IN 2d UO I could easily spot my friends in front of a very crowded Brit bank just by how their characters looked. 2d had a ton of appearance options.
UO was one of the best games ever created imo. The combat is actually very engaging, and to this day, I think the only game to get the sandbox idea right. What I wish they would do, is create a game exactly like UO 2d and just use better graphics. Say for example the graphics engine that HoN uses. While HoN isn't an MMO, it captures the same style that UO did with much better graphics and effects. I'm really surprised a gaming company hasn't developed something like this. The gameplay for UO is already there. Well.. correction.. the older versions of UO (Pre- Ninjas and Samurai, and hell I wouldn't miss trammel even a little bit). I read on the site once that they were considering creating an old style server. This would bring me back in a heartbeat. I've got my credit card just ready to sub in case they ever decide to do this.
2.5D graphics can look amazing if they are backed by amazing animators and artists.. When Ragnarok first came out, I seen its graphics and thought "why are they using 2D graphics for this?" And then after playing for a while i realized, wow.. They couldn't have done this any other way.. It is so beautifully animated that it only made sense to have 2D sprites..
As for the paperdoll, it is probably the best way to capture ALL the smaller details of a character if updated.. Looking at EvE's character creator and the photo snapshot they make, if you were to use photorealistic textures in the character creation process you can show things like freckles and give greater control over facial features (like instead of having just a mustache feature you can have a mustache length and shape feature).. A 3D creator for your nude avatar would be very cool. And this would be just for your paperdoll because in the gameworld with 2.5D graphics and an isometric viewpoint, little details get left out anyhow..
Be wary my friends and fellow gamers. Charlatans and "wanna be's" abound in this genre. Ideas and aspirations look and sound amazing on paper. The actual implementation of such are something completely different.
I wish them the best, but sound skepticism are warranted for any new developers in the industry.
But to answer the question, then yes they look good and 2.5 models can achieve the desired graphical effect quite well.
Didn't realize that, I haven't touched the game in such a long time now.
I grew up playing 8-bit and 16-bit Japanese RPGs, so hell yeah I would love a modern 2011 AAA 2D MMORPG! Never understood why we havent seen one yet. Imagine updated Icewind Dale type graphics in a huge highly polished 1080p MMO world with massive screen realestate!! Damn that would be cool! Add in some 7.1 ambient sounds and a badass epic sound track and I would be in MMO bliss.
Nadirim is a new browser MMO that is along these lines, but.....its a browser MMO.
3D isnt always the best for gameplay, Worms is a good example.
But in this case, I will try
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Im 36 years old, I started playing with an 286 intel at 8 mhz, with 512kb of ram and no hard disk. I played tons of games in 2D with that kind of graphics, but that was in the past. I dont want to troll but with so many post talking about how good that 2d graphics are I can't only think about my father saying: "In my times...". I think you take the point.
I'm going for a kind of mix between UO graphics and DAoC theme. Of course, every realm has en entirely different theme, and perhaps it's a bit more Diablo or Age of Conan than it is DAoC, but I certainly love DAoC. The graphics will definitely be something closer to UO + New.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
None of the graphics shown by the OP looks good at all. I will pass.
Almost any modern MMO (Rift, for example) looks 10x better.
Better in style and art direction, or detail and polygon count?
I'd like to see some Rift screenshots, if you don't mind? I don't recall what the graphics were like, and would like to know why.
Not at all huh? Interesting you'd say that, as it's quite a bit harsh. I cannot imagine what you would think about 8-bit graphics or UO/EQ1's :P hehe
Thanks!
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
dunno about u, but i still find some SNES games better than some ps3 games. i pay little attention to gfx ,a fun game is fun.
Waiting for Richard Garriot to make the re-make of Ultima online..................what do you think EA?
What is surprising to me is that nariusseldon is a 45 year old with 3555 posts, yet finds my graphics to be "no good at all. pass."
I guess my giants will have to find another player to find them attractive
I guess they just suck and are just too crappy to compare to a supreme game like Rift.
Gameplay is more important to me, that's why UNLIKE Rift, you can actually play as the Giants as a race, and they are in fact Giant. (Skeleton is a 6 foot tall human for scale)
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
2D Graphics can definitely work in a current-day MMO.
The thing is that you have to change your design if you do so. With 2D comes a certain detachment from your character. As such you should avoid further systems which cause additional attachment. Things such as auto-attacking and long walks through unchanging terrain.
A 2D MMO would need a unique combat system and engaging world to keep the player immersed. I actually think that a succesfull 2D MMO would in certain ways be a lot better then 3D MMOs. Simply because graphics won't be able to replace the gameplay. If the game were to be a success then gameplay would have to be so engaging that players wouldn't feel detached from their 2D small avatars.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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I don't have a problem with UO's graphics. 2D or 3D I could deal. My major problem with the game is the graphics lag that has yet to be fixed if it even can. Having my character run in place every few seconds totally kills it for me. I just find it extremely frustrating to watch. It's not a computer or internet connection issue. A purely a client issue that takes place in the original 2D client, Third Dawn client, and he new client. I'd play the game longer then a trial period if that were fixed.