Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

DC Universe Online: Does It Live Up to the IP

2»

Comments

  • halfhandhalfhand Member Posts: 3

    Yamota,

    Since you feel DC took the easy road out, I'd be interested for you to post what you feel the other road was for them.  You have mentioned a few things, but a summary of how you would have this MMO work - quests, boss fights, player impact on the in game environment, etc.  Nothing really detailed, but something to give a clear picture of what your overall idea of how it should be.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by halfhand

    Yamota,

    Since you feel DC took the easy road out, I'd be interested for you to post what you feel the other road was for them.  You have mentioned a few things, but a summary of how you would have this MMO work - quests, boss fights, player impact on the in game environment, etc.  Nothing really detailed, but something to give a clear picture of what your overall idea of how it should be.

    I dont feel DC took the easy way out, rather they took the same way out as almost every other themepark MMORPG out there.

    What I was commenting on was the articles claim about immersion and how you felt part of a bigger whole. For me it is very hard to get immersed in the DC universe when I see the mission that I just completed, be it save some damsel in distress or defeat some super villain, be performed virtually the exact same way by houndreds of other people, in the same world. That for me kills immersion and does not make any sense.

    Likewise it is hard to feel part of a bigger whole when whatever you do in the universe has no affect on the universe what so ever. I can log on every day or not log on for a month and the world will not be affected either way. I we really were heroes, then us not being there, should have an effect on the world. Us completing or not completing a mission or a deed should affect the world. But in fact it does not, it is a static world where you cant do single thing to change.

    As for my sollution for how to do it? Well for starts the quests need to be redesigned so that it makes sense that houndreds of people complete it. Like for example the quest is about taking down lackeys and when XX nr of lackeys has been taken down, by all and not just by you, then the quests will culminate to one single event for ALL. Like fighting some arch villain, much like how Public Quests work in WAR but a step further since they dont go in an endless cycle.

    Second the outcome of this quest chain leads to another set of quest chains, depending on the success and also will affect the world. So if a Doomsday quest chain leads to Doomsday "winning" then whole of Metropolis would be in ruins and the next quest chain would be rebuilding it and Doomsday moving on unto his next target.

    Likewise, non quest acitivites, such as killing mobs randomly should affect the map. The spawns should be dynamic and move from place to place and if left unchecked would make it so that certain parts of the map become under their control, until they are pushed back.

    Now this system would be much more than I describe here and a single post like this cannot possibly explain all parts of it but from what I have heard two games are taking the first steps into this dynamic peristant way of playing MMORPGs and that is Rift and GW 2. Now for sure they wont take it all the way, but atleast it is a step in the right direction.

    DC Online, on the other hand, seem to be going for the same old static world. Fun for those that like it but for me it is not immersive, unless I play it like a single player game and ignore everyone else. But even then it would suck because even single player games change depending on your actions. These kind of static themepark games, will not.

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568

    How can anything made by Sony/Verant be any good? They abandoned "Planetside" their only good game. And all variations of EQ have been a "whack a mole" grindfest since day one.

    I plan to avoid DCUO until the reviews coem out. Been burnt on too many MMOs to trust them.

    Also, it seems like its a console game, thus, the "your mom" potty talk 13 year olds that ruined WoW will ruin this game too.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Or they could make quests affect the world. Like killing XX of YY mob would actually matter in the bigger picture. Or you could have legendary monsters that were indeed legendary and if you would, against all odds kill it, then you would become legendary. Like Gandalf killing the Balrog of Moria and becoming Gandalf the White or Superman, getting rid of doomsday and getting killed in the process.

    But then ofcourse people would have to accept that not everyone can be the number 1, which I think is what most people have a problem with. But those people, I would argue, dont "get" what MMORPGs should be about.

    A persistant world, not one where there are thousands of pararell quests and where everyone is the hero.

    And what has this got to do with this thread? Well in DC there is, with some exceptions, only one Batman and one Superman and they commit unique feats. DC Universe should reflect that, but instead they take the easy road out and produce yet another themepark, linear, instanced game where the world is static and unchangeable and everyone is the hero (by finishing identical feats).

     

    I think this is unrealistic in an environment that revolves around big name characters for an IP.   To Review:  DOES IT LIVE UP TO THE IP?  

     

    Well,  Batman and Superman have defeated their villains numerous times, yet the IP revolved very much so around defeating these same enemies.   How would it work for ME to defeat the joker, and have him just disappear from the world for a time until he "breaks out of arkham" again.   The missions revolve around a system that dictates a story.  While there are some named heroes and villains in the world that you will defeat,  receive a headline for,  and they respawn some time later,   it wouldn't make sense for big named heroes and villains to be removed from the game for an indefinite amount of time.

     

    While that might be good for a few events,  like Doomsday destroying metropolis and a number of heroes and villains have to respond,  and taking him out would ultimately quell the assault for a long time,  killing random big boss A doesn't mesh with the IP.

     

    Now where the main non-linear uninstanced gameplay lies is in the open world, with other players.  Fighting other players, repelling assaults on a police precinct or fighting off a mob of players while trying to take down Bizarro is not only challenging but dynamic enough that it changes the way you move through the world.

     

    Thats the point of PvP servers,  and DCUO caters to that play very well.  Restricting yourself to one style of MMORPG play may be the MMORPG Purists way of looking at MMOs,  but as a Gamer,  this world IS very immersive for DC, and its also incredibly fun and rewarding,  even the linear parts.

    It is immersive if you play it as a single player game, not as an MMORPG. MMORPGs are by definition not about YOU but rather you and the rest of the thousands of players in the same world. Atleast they used to be.

    At Batman etc beating their villains numerous times is not the same as Hero X, Y, Z perform the EXACT same deed in the same world. You did not in the DC world have several different heroes, defeat the same heroes or rescue the same people, in nearly identical ways.

    Superman killed Doomsday, not Batman and Green Lantern and Bloodwynd etc.

     

    I just don't see it being any MORE immersive to be honest,  if people only get to do it once.  I think, again, that ruins the idea behind the IP.  For example,  in The Matrix Online,  no one EVER did the SAME quests at all. Every NPC had different names and they were all in different locations.  Didn't really help immersion much more to be honest.  Lets face it,  people aren't going to play DCUO so that they can play some random encounter against a boss one time.  

     

    The game follows a STORY line.  Hence the Blur Studio video setting it all up,  and once set up and the player logs in,  the story takes the player through a number of areas of the game giving you a setting and an underlying reason for why you are a super hero/villain and what to do from then forward.

     

    People don't play DCUO where you choose a mentor, with hundreds of popular named villains,  to NOT interact with any of them.   That would make it pointless.

     

    As far as MMORPGs not being about "you"  an MMORPG is about everyone.  Its about you,  its about people in your league.  Everyone makes up an MMORPG,  and DCUO reflects that.   

     

    PvE missions aside,  PvP and group content is where players can shine their fullest.  Good players will be known server wide.  Peoples play styles will not be identical, neither will their player characters.   Having a full on battle between players is something that won't only happen once,  but that open world fight won't happen like that again.   

     

    But I digress from your point.  What you are asking for is unrealistic to the IP,  as well as a number of other games both upcoming and from the past.   People will always repeat something, whether its a quest in one MMORPG,  or camping the same spawn points to upgrade skills in another.   Whats most important is that the game you're playing stays as close as possible to the IP for the GAME that you're playing.  As these are GAMES, and not simulated worlds, it just makes sense for it to work this way.

     

    Nowhere in the acronym MMORPG does it say players can't be heroic or that worlds need to have a sense of simulation to be considered immersive.   Talking to Batman and going into an instance to fight the scarecrow while taking in all of gotham is pretty immersive to me, whether I do it alone or with 6 other players.



  • StealthriderStealthrider Member Posts: 40

    It really sounds like those that want "unique events" for their characters should be playing single player games.

    "Other people shouldnt be doing the same story arcs as me! Mine should be special and affect the world! Devs should make it so I'm the only one that matters! My story should be totally unique from the thousands (millions) of other players!"

    Batman: Arkham Asylum sounds more like the game you want. Except you'd be forced to play Batman. Damn those devs, not letting you play your own hero in Batman: Arkham Asylum!

  • halfhandhalfhand Member Posts: 3

    Originally posted by Yamota



    Originally posted by halfhand

    Yamota,

    Since you feel DC took the easy road out, I'd be interested for you to post what you feel the other road was for them.  You have mentioned a few things, but a summary of how you would have this MMO work - quests, boss fights, player impact on the in game environment, etc.  Nothing really detailed, but something to give a clear picture of what your overall idea of how it should be.

    I dont feel DC took the easy way out, rather they took the same way out as almost every other themepark MMORPG out there.

    ...

    I think what you are describing could be great to play, but such a massive and expensive game to build, let alone maintain, as to be not feasible.  Where it would kill the developer is in managing the content.  Players burn through content faster than it can possibly be written, and unless it is in the nature of 'clear the streets of 10,000 henchmen' before battling Darkseid (which would be boring), the sheer number of quests leading up to the main world event would be staggering.  At ~5000 players per server, even 20,000 one time quests would not be enough to last a few days.  You couldn't maintain that much content if you had writers working in a sweatshop in some third world country, it would have to be generated, which leads to annoyingly repetitive quests that are only fill in the blank variations on the same store of stock quests.  Even if you could keep up with the amount, each piece of content that you create leading up to the world event is being seen by at most 5 to 10 people out of thousands.  That is not a very high return on the amount of time invested in each bit of content - which would again bring you back to less than stellar content.  Throw in the fact the the smaller percentage of hard core gamers will be the ones that burn through the larger percent of the single-use content, and you end of with a large percent of your player base not being involved in affecting their world and wondering exactly why they are spending their money with your company.  Those are some daunting issues to tackle just off the top of my head, I can't imagine the nightmare it would be once you got into the details of it

    I really do like the idea of what you're saying, and I hope that companies are and do look for ways around those problems.  I think that it will take time and technology to get to a point where it can be done well, and some companies are going to have to be willing to try and fail.  However, were I DC, there is no way I would put this intellectual property up as a guinea pig.  This game for them is not just about about cashing in on the growing MMO market(which they probably won't do if they go out on a limb trying to shake the genre up), it is also about marketing their IP and  growing (and maintaining) their audience.  Fail badly here and they don't just not grow that audience, but potentially lose audience for their movie and publishing interests.  I think that whether the game is good or bad they made the right business decision sticking with a tried model. 

    Again, I do like what you've outlined as a potential MMO structure, and I hope to see it work and work well.  Thanks for taking the time to put it out there.

  • AkaisAkais Member UncommonPosts: 274

    This game is going to receive some hot debate because it is a an IP we've all grown up with and the mixing of genres is always met with skepticism.

    That said, I played the beta and loved it.

    We all like to compare apples to apples and that's where this game falls flat unfortunately.

    It is an MMO but not an MMO-RPG. It's an MMO Action title.

    Attempting to compare it to a game like WoW does both a disservice as neither are designed to do all the things the other does. The only reasonably close title I can think of to compare this too would probably be GA or some of the games launching this year.

    We can all argue the merits of the game's immersive value and game dynamics until we are blue in the face and I will still be left with the conclusion that the game is fun and what's in it, at this point, is well crafted.

    Your mileage may vary, mine is pretty good right now.

  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,534

    I didn't really see the question in the title quite answered by the author.  Based on my few weeks in beta, I would have to say: no.  It had a lot of cool things but most of them could be placed anywhere.  The power Fly was really the only thing that made me feel "super" and that could have been in any hero game.

  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712

    Originally posted by Yamota



    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota

    "Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

    And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

    This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

    Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

    Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

     

    On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

    I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

    MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

    What successful MMORPG does not have this element? Seriously you say that you are not comment on any other games out there yet you blame this game for giving mmos a bad name.

    No, I am commenting on the article saying that there is immersion and being part of a bigger whole where in fact it is not possible in this game as nothing you do will affect the bigger whole and it is kinda hard to get immersed when houndreds of "heroes" are doing the exact same deeds you are, in the same "world".


     

     


    Oh I see where you're going...


     


    What you want is a game where only a handful of players (presumably including yourself) are the movers and shakers, dictating the shape and state of the 'persistent' world. Everyone else spends their $15 a month just to log in and be witness to your glory.
  • dalestaines1dalestaines1 Member Posts: 107

    If they will add more hair and fix the hair and facial hair being connected, the customization will be nice.  I just hate how it is now.  Feels very heroic and all, but the skins are just not really great imo.

    image

  • tron21369tron21369 Member Posts: 73

    ok the people that love guild wars2 like my self  .. thats a game that what you do effects the world  and the same with   old republic on line     what you say and do effects change     and give meaning   not just go and kill x amount of cows or bugs   with no real change zzzzz      

      what it comes down to is   DC  isa action game    'wack a moles ' and other stuff  some people will love it and some wont      if you love it great   if you dont cuz it dont have this or that   then dont play it  cuz we can go    on and on    over  IP   and lore   to what ever concerns you to death  lol     there lots of games out there to get our fix  : )    

  • TymoraTymora Member UncommonPosts: 1,295

    Originally posted by Yamota

     

    "Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

    And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

    This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

    Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

     This is exactly my sentiment.  Single player games can really make you feeling iconic, as your character.  Bartman: Arkham Asylum was fantastic in this regard.  Now I realize that in DCUO, nobody is going to be Batman or any other actual heroes, but we will all be playing heroes none-the-less, and as Syndrome put it so elegantly in my kid's favorite movie, Mr. Incredible, "if everyone is super, then noone is" . . .

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    How can anything made by Sony/Verant be any good? They abandoned "Planetside" their only good game. And all variations of EQ have been a "whack a mole" grindfest since day one.

    I plan to avoid DCUO until the reviews coem out. Been burnt on too many MMOs to trust them.

    Also, it seems like its a console game, thus, the "your mom" potty talk 13 year olds that ruined WoW will ruin this game too.

    image

     

    While i agree that this game will appeal more to the younger generation, i dont think its fair to say that their necessarily a bad influence, nor are they more, or less likely to 'potty talk'  than players in their 20's or 30+. I think your comment about avoiding it until its been out a while and theres been time for the reviews to start appearing, is a valid one though, and for much the same reason. as for it seeming like a console game, theres no seeming about it, this is a game that is 'wholly' designed for the console, its button mashing combat is proof on its own that this game is really aimed more at a gamepad than keyboard/mouse, personally i have no expectations of this game, i played COH/COV and im about done with superhero games, especially the wildly overpriced ones.image

  • XenOshadeXenOshade Member UncommonPosts: 95

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota

    "Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

    And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

    This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

    Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

    Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

     

    On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

    I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

    MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

    What successful MMORPG does not have this element? Seriously you say that you are not comment on any other games out there yet you blame this game for giving mmos a bad name.

    No, I am commenting on the article saying that there is immersion and being part of a bigger whole where in fact it is not possible in this game as nothing you do will affect the bigger whole and it is kinda hard to get immersed when houndreds of "heroes" are doing the exact same deeds you are, in the same "world".

    I think you set up impossible (impossible today not necessarily in the future) expectations so that you can troll. No matter what you are commenting..... I could say this game sucks because it doesn't come with a holographic projector to play the game on, then say that I am not commenting on anyother games I am just saying this game needs a holographic projector. Seriously get over yourself.

  • XenOshadeXenOshade Member UncommonPosts: 95

    Originally posted by hanshotfirst

    Originally posted by Yamota



    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by XenOshade


    Originally posted by Yamota

    "Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

    And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

    This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

    Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

    Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

     

    On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

    I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

    MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

    What successful MMORPG does not have this element? Seriously you say that you are not comment on any other games out there yet you blame this game for giving mmos a bad name.

    No, I am commenting on the article saying that there is immersion and being part of a bigger whole where in fact it is not possible in this game as nothing you do will affect the bigger whole and it is kinda hard to get immersed when houndreds of "heroes" are doing the exact same deeds you are, in the same "world".


     

     


    Oh I see where you're going...


     


    What you want is a game where only a handful of players (presumably including yourself) are the movers and shakers, dictating the shape and state of the 'persistent' world. Everyone else spends their $15 a month just to log in and be witness to your glory.

    If this is your point...... I feel sorry for you Yamota.

Sign In or Register to comment.