"WoW clone" is just a universal term to describe what type of game it is. Almost every MMO gamer has played WoW, so therefore almost every MMO gamer knows what to type of game to expect from a "WoW clone".
No reason to get all bent out of shape because of it.
"WoW clone" is just a universal term to describe what type of game it is. Almost every MMO gamer has played WoW, so therefore almost every MMO gamer knows what to type of game to expect from a "WoW clone".
No reason to get all bent out of shape because of it.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all of the pain is coming from. Maybe we should start calling these recycled games "WoW-like" or "WoWish". Perhaps that would ease the discomfort we often see when the term "WoW clone" is used.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"WoW clone" is just a universal term to describe what type of game it is. Almost every MMO gamer has played WoW, so therefore almost every MMO gamer knows what to type of game to expect from a "WoW clone".
No reason to get all bent out of shape because of it.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all of the pain is coming from. Maybe we should start calling these recycled games "WoW-like" or "WoWish". Perhaps that would ease the discomfort we often see when the term "WoW clone" is used.
semantics...
Ugh. My favorite.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
For example: In Lotro you level up and buy your skills; you don't keep putting skill points in a single skill to make it stronger.
That's now gone from WOW and they do it the same way as LOTRO now... I guess that makes WOW a LOTRO clone
Sheesh... haven't you figured it out yet? Game design now is Big Business governed by the same mentality that rules Hollywood: why take risks when you can just cash-in on what you know people will buy?
Fact is they all copy from each other: WOW copied their achievement system from WAR. Rift copied their rifts from WAR's PQ's. Everybody copied their AH and mail delivery from WOW...and so on and so forth.
They're all slight refinements on what their market research tells them you'll pay money to consume.
Want to see them make different games? Change what you'll pay for and they will
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
There is no such thing as a game clone. If that were true then every shooter would be a Goldeneye clone or Doom clone ,hell even Duke Nukem clone
If there was a WoW clone it would have the same storyline, same graphics, same controls, same races,pvp, same everything. Most MMOs out there don't even have the same skill tree that WoW has. For example: In Lotro you level up and buy your skills; you don't keep putting skill points in a single skill to make it stronger. If anything WoW is a Diablo 2 clone that is persistent and in Third Person perspective.
I guess I have to ask. What is a clone? Is it also a replica? A replica is identical to the original right?
So please, each MMO has their own unique storyline, graphics, user interface, and races. I honestly think people think WoW is the best because it was their first MMO or something. I guess its like the first person you had sex with (it was awesome for me).
I have played WoW but it wasn't the first and that is why I can't say it is the best. It may be most popular but it is not the best.
Most of you call me a troll... I'm just speaking the truth. So if you see a game with the title "WoW Clone" you can call it WoW Clone.
100% agree I too am sick and tired of idiots calling a MMO that comes out after WoW came out a "WoW Clone"
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I am not certain if the OP can go around and police what people define as a 'clone of something'.
Language are organic and the meaning changes all the time.
Back in the day, all FPS was a 'doom clone', even though Doom was after Wolf3D.
But good luck should you decide to dictate on how people define things.
The government of France can definitely use a person like you! :P
I recall one of my friends laughing at his government when they tried to implement a 'Proper French Speaking Act' and made new words for 'Jeans, Hamburgers etc' in French!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To think I logged into my account for the first times in months in order to reply to this post just to find that Scythe has already made most of the points I was going to make. Oh well, here goes.
Is there a point in using the term WoW Clone?
Yes. It would take a level of true naivity to completely ignore the fact that there have been games, after the launch of WoW, which have sought to emulate the game; NOT EQ, WoW specifically.
Now, with any argument you can attack interpretations of the keywords used... Do people use the term clone to mean a carbon copy of something else, well yes. But do people also use the same term to infer that a product/person/object has incredibly similar styles/principles/characteristics to another product/person/object? Yes!
If I was to call someone a clone of their father. Would peoples immediate response be along the lines of sheer disbelief? Stating all the ethical issues with cloning a human being and start arguing about the legality of such an act? Only if they lack common sense!
In a similar way, when we say 'WoW Clone'; it is not to state that the game is EXACTLY the same as other MMOs - just that it shares incredibly similar characteristics/styles. Since WoW's launch many developers have sought to create games which feedoff of WoW in a stylistic sense. Notice how I have said WoW and not EQ; however, the SAME can be said of EQ - its just that WoW has almost become the new benchmark. I would have little issue with people using the term 'EQ Clone'.
'WoW Clone' has become the general MMO schmoes way of saying 'GENERIC' and lacking in originality; as such, using the term is more than justified. Similarly to how a clone can be seen as a copy rather than innovating/new the MMO community uses the word to discribe a game with such properties.
So, should we use the term?
I see no issue with it. If a new MMO gets released which is bland/uninovative/generic then the term 'WoW Clone' can be used in context. That is not to say that WoW displays the aforementioned characteristics, many of you may believe that it does, rather that the act of mimicing (Cloning?) successful MMOs often leads to games which are without merit.
I don't think the term 'WoW clone' typically bothers those that are reasonably new to the genre.
But for those that have been playing for the past 10-15 years will be pretty frustrated with the term since they understand that it was Ultima Online and Everquest that really set the standard of what we see to day.
I don't think the term 'WoW clone' typically bothers those that are reasonably new to the genre.
But for those that have been playing for the past 10-15 years will be pretty frustrated with the term since they understand that it was Ultima Online and Everquest that really set the standard of what we see to day.
Well, it's only used because most MMO players are reasonably new to the genre. Nobody would have any idea what's up if you call something an UO clone... and since majority of MMO players haven't played that game, it doesn't even matter whether the game is a clone of UO.
But most people have tried WoW, so if the game is a WoW clone, it means a lot more.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
To clarify; I've played numerous MMOs over the past 10years - started with UO and the first incarnation of Legend of Mir. The reason I really dont have any issue with the term 'WoW Clone', aside from those already mentioned, is that many 'new' mmos are INCREDIBLY similar (ripoffs) of WoW. We're not talking about the mere inclusion of quests or even the look/stylisation of a game; but the essence of the game - what it is at its core. You can obviously think of parallels between say WoW and EQ or UO and LoM - but with some games it goes beyond this, the very core of the game is an exact copy/paraphrase of a previous title (whether it be EQ, UO, WoW, whatever). I believe it is for this reason why many use the term; they are fed up with the generic template that many recent MMOs have used (a template created by ALL the aforementioned games) - people want to see creativity, originality and flare... NOT regurgitation.
First of all, its annoying to see people split hairs about why we call them WOW clones as opposed to EQ clones. You know exactly what we mean and why we call them as we do and its just a heck of alot easier to say WOW clone as opposed to quest driven character progression (EQ wasn't like this BTW, AC2 was the first) with simiplified crafting, levels, and classes and plays basically like a standard theme park game. (which is also another great term IMO) To insult everyone who uses the terms or to state you don't understand what we mean is baiting far worse than the trolling accusations frequently tossed around.
But to elaborate further. When building MMO's, lets say theres a pool of 50 major design decisions a development team can chose to employ when designing a game. Features such as quest driven progression (vs camp grinding), UI design, Housing, Crafting (and the complexity of crafting), talent trees, classes, levels, instances vs open world, pvp, battlegrounds, etc etc.
Depending on which set of features a developer chooses to include will determine whether or not the general community percieves the game to be more of a sandbox or theme park game. More importantly if a company chooses to include bascially the same set of features that Blizzard chose to in WOW, with only a few subtle variations, then you are going to get the accusation of a game being a WOW clone.
Perpetuum went a different route, they chose to add a lot of the features from EVE and of course, they get called an EVE clone (although certainly there are marked differences)
Games such as LoTRO, ROM, AOC, WAR and too many to count IMO went down the road that Blizzard traveled with so many similarities, that players frequently get a deja vu feeling after a spell and feel they are playing the same game. Are they identical as the term "clone" typically implies? No. But we are not using the term clinically its being used to represent a concept that almost everyone reading this thread understands even when they decry its use.
As some else said though, its also perceived as a negative slam (which it is of course) and that's why they bristle at its use and decry its regular (although quite accurate) usage in common discussion.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Ring, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Aion, Champions on Line, Star Trek On line, Fallen Earth, Final Fantasy 14, ... put in two dozen other like PotBs, D&D on line and too many to remember ...while one game has almost 70% of the players.
I remember some here laughed when it was 60% 2 years ago.
So 2012 it will be 80% ?
What happens when you have 80% of the market... A monopoly ?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I think the only game I've tested that felt like a WOW clone was Alganon. I think WOW clone is mostly used to describe newer themepark MMOs that offer LOTS of hand holding.
Idk why developers think players are incapable of being above retarded thought processing.
I am designing my game to GUIDE players, yes, but not to hold their hands! Players don't need to be guided in EVERY aspect FOREVER. They only need to be guided once or twice, with the basics, and then let them learn on their own.
WoW Clones, in your definition, are like the parents who are so overprotective, their children never get life experience in any way, and grow up socially and realistically retarded.
Barbaric overkills of games which penalize players and force players to give up their lives through horrid timesinks are like the non-existent parents who don't take care of their children at all. Those children grow up bitter and hateful, wanting to PvP level 1's and laugh.
I don't see why we can't have a healthy parent in the MMO developer community. One that says, "Yes, I will guide my children [the players] but let them learn on their own [not hold their hands] but give them help if they need it [/advice channel and great tutorials that can be revisited or even tutorials most players dont take, but ones that help A LOT]
I want to include a "Training Ground" where players, AT ANY TIME, can go there, pick a section they want to develop on, and go through a series of fun and challenging tutorials. And a system where if players are having A LOT of trouble, they can call on an Advisor, which is a volunteer player who tries to help newbies out by guiding them through tutorials as a ghost, like the Blue GM's of UO.
Also, this "Training Ground" is a chatroom itself, global, across all servers, where players can meet and practice together, because the game is group-based. And tutorials which include NPC's who act as groupmates, who do actions similar to real life.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Ring, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Aion, Champions on Line, Star Trek On line, Fallen Earth, Final Fantasy 14, ... put in two dozen other like PotBs, D&D on line and too many to remember ...while one game has almost 70% of the players.
I remember some here laughed when it was 60% 2 years ago.
So 2012 it will be 80% ?
What happens when you have 80% of the market... A monopoly ?
Someone else takes 20%, and makes a fortune. LoL.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I liken it to that south park episode where the kid says simpsons did it already. The only true WoW clone is WoW itself since it copies almost every concieved feature from the MMO genre. WoW only real innovations was combat responsiveness, streamlined and fast interface, and Their refinement of raid dungeons/ Normal Dungeons. Blizzard is mostly just good at copying everything else, Funny that they get called original a lot.
WoW's interface is only successfull because they made it modable anyways and intergrated the successful Interface addons into their core interface. although you could consider addons an innovations from blizzard too, but it was a large peice of success for them.
Comments
"WoW clone" is just a universal term to describe what type of game it is. Almost every MMO gamer has played WoW, so therefore almost every MMO gamer knows what to type of game to expect from a "WoW clone".
No reason to get all bent out of shape because of it.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all of the pain is coming from. Maybe we should start calling these recycled games "WoW-like" or "WoWish". Perhaps that would ease the discomfort we often see when the term "WoW clone" is used.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ugh. My favorite.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
That's now gone from WOW and they do it the same way as LOTRO now... I guess that makes WOW a LOTRO clone
Sheesh... haven't you figured it out yet? Game design now is Big Business governed by the same mentality that rules Hollywood: why take risks when you can just cash-in on what you know people will buy?
Fact is they all copy from each other: WOW copied their achievement system from WAR. Rift copied their rifts from WAR's PQ's. Everybody copied their AH and mail delivery from WOW...and so on and so forth.
They're all slight refinements on what their market research tells them you'll pay money to consume.
Want to see them make different games? Change what you'll pay for and they will
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
100% agree I too am sick and tired of idiots calling a MMO that comes out after WoW came out a "WoW Clone"
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I am not certain if the OP can go around and police what people define as a 'clone of something'.
Language are organic and the meaning changes all the time.
Back in the day, all FPS was a 'doom clone', even though Doom was after Wolf3D.
But good luck should you decide to dictate on how people define things.
The government of France can definitely use a person like you! :P
I recall one of my friends laughing at his government when they tried to implement a 'Proper French Speaking Act' and made new words for 'Jeans, Hamburgers etc' in French!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To think I logged into my account for the first times in months in order to reply to this post just to find that Scythe has already made most of the points I was going to make. Oh well, here goes.
Is there a point in using the term WoW Clone?
Yes. It would take a level of true naivity to completely ignore the fact that there have been games, after the launch of WoW, which have sought to emulate the game; NOT EQ, WoW specifically.
Now, with any argument you can attack interpretations of the keywords used... Do people use the term clone to mean a carbon copy of something else, well yes. But do people also use the same term to infer that a product/person/object has incredibly similar styles/principles/characteristics to another product/person/object? Yes!
If I was to call someone a clone of their father. Would peoples immediate response be along the lines of sheer disbelief? Stating all the ethical issues with cloning a human being and start arguing about the legality of such an act? Only if they lack common sense!
In a similar way, when we say 'WoW Clone'; it is not to state that the game is EXACTLY the same as other MMOs - just that it shares incredibly similar characteristics/styles. Since WoW's launch many developers have sought to create games which feedoff of WoW in a stylistic sense. Notice how I have said WoW and not EQ; however, the SAME can be said of EQ - its just that WoW has almost become the new benchmark. I would have little issue with people using the term 'EQ Clone'.
'WoW Clone' has become the general MMO schmoes way of saying 'GENERIC' and lacking in originality; as such, using the term is more than justified. Similarly to how a clone can be seen as a copy rather than innovating/new the MMO community uses the word to discribe a game with such properties.
So, should we use the term?
I see no issue with it. If a new MMO gets released which is bland/uninovative/generic then the term 'WoW Clone' can be used in context. That is not to say that WoW displays the aforementioned characteristics, many of you may believe that it does, rather that the act of mimicing (Cloning?) successful MMOs often leads to games which are without merit.
I don't think the term 'WoW clone' typically bothers those that are reasonably new to the genre.
But for those that have been playing for the past 10-15 years will be pretty frustrated with the term since they understand that it was Ultima Online and Everquest that really set the standard of what we see to day.
Well, it's only used because most MMO players are reasonably new to the genre. Nobody would have any idea what's up if you call something an UO clone... and since majority of MMO players haven't played that game, it doesn't even matter whether the game is a clone of UO.
But most people have tried WoW, so if the game is a WoW clone, it means a lot more.
To clarify; I've played numerous MMOs over the past 10years - started with UO and the first incarnation of Legend of Mir. The reason I really dont have any issue with the term 'WoW Clone', aside from those already mentioned, is that many 'new' mmos are INCREDIBLY similar (ripoffs) of WoW. We're not talking about the mere inclusion of quests or even the look/stylisation of a game; but the essence of the game - what it is at its core. You can obviously think of parallels between say WoW and EQ or UO and LoM - but with some games it goes beyond this, the very core of the game is an exact copy/paraphrase of a previous title (whether it be EQ, UO, WoW, whatever). I believe it is for this reason why many use the term; they are fed up with the generic template that many recent MMOs have used (a template created by ALL the aforementioned games) - people want to see creativity, originality and flare... NOT regurgitation.
I call them as I see them, so no.
My gaming blog
First of all, its annoying to see people split hairs about why we call them WOW clones as opposed to EQ clones. You know exactly what we mean and why we call them as we do and its just a heck of alot easier to say WOW clone as opposed to quest driven character progression (EQ wasn't like this BTW, AC2 was the first) with simiplified crafting, levels, and classes and plays basically like a standard theme park game. (which is also another great term IMO) To insult everyone who uses the terms or to state you don't understand what we mean is baiting far worse than the trolling accusations frequently tossed around.
But to elaborate further. When building MMO's, lets say theres a pool of 50 major design decisions a development team can chose to employ when designing a game. Features such as quest driven progression (vs camp grinding), UI design, Housing, Crafting (and the complexity of crafting), talent trees, classes, levels, instances vs open world, pvp, battlegrounds, etc etc.
Depending on which set of features a developer chooses to include will determine whether or not the general community percieves the game to be more of a sandbox or theme park game. More importantly if a company chooses to include bascially the same set of features that Blizzard chose to in WOW, with only a few subtle variations, then you are going to get the accusation of a game being a WOW clone.
Perpetuum went a different route, they chose to add a lot of the features from EVE and of course, they get called an EVE clone (although certainly there are marked differences)
Games such as LoTRO, ROM, AOC, WAR and too many to count IMO went down the road that Blizzard traveled with so many similarities, that players frequently get a deja vu feeling after a spell and feel they are playing the same game. Are they identical as the term "clone" typically implies? No. But we are not using the term clinically its being used to represent a concept that almost everyone reading this thread understands even when they decry its use.
As some else said though, its also perceived as a negative slam (which it is of course) and that's why they bristle at its use and decry its regular (although quite accurate) usage in common discussion.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Ring, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Aion, Champions on Line, Star Trek On line, Fallen Earth, Final Fantasy 14, ... put in two dozen other like PotBs, D&D on line and too many to remember ...while one game has almost 70% of the players.
I remember some here laughed when it was 60% 2 years ago.
So 2012 it will be 80% ?
What happens when you have 80% of the market... A monopoly ?
"There is no such thing as a game clone."
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Stop defending the devs that have no creativity.
Idk why developers think players are incapable of being above retarded thought processing.
I am designing my game to GUIDE players, yes, but not to hold their hands! Players don't need to be guided in EVERY aspect FOREVER. They only need to be guided once or twice, with the basics, and then let them learn on their own.
WoW Clones, in your definition, are like the parents who are so overprotective, their children never get life experience in any way, and grow up socially and realistically retarded.
Barbaric overkills of games which penalize players and force players to give up their lives through horrid timesinks are like the non-existent parents who don't take care of their children at all. Those children grow up bitter and hateful, wanting to PvP level 1's and laugh.
I don't see why we can't have a healthy parent in the MMO developer community. One that says, "Yes, I will guide my children [the players] but let them learn on their own [not hold their hands] but give them help if they need it [/advice channel and great tutorials that can be revisited or even tutorials most players dont take, but ones that help A LOT]
I want to include a "Training Ground" where players, AT ANY TIME, can go there, pick a section they want to develop on, and go through a series of fun and challenging tutorials. And a system where if players are having A LOT of trouble, they can call on an Advisor, which is a volunteer player who tries to help newbies out by guiding them through tutorials as a ghost, like the Blue GM's of UO.
Also, this "Training Ground" is a chatroom itself, global, across all servers, where players can meet and practice together, because the game is group-based. And tutorials which include NPC's who act as groupmates, who do actions similar to real life.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
yea, yea...
I hate WoW, and all the WoW clones.
Someone else takes 20%, and makes a fortune. LoL.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I liken it to that south park episode where the kid says simpsons did it already. The only true WoW clone is WoW itself since it copies almost every concieved feature from the MMO genre. WoW only real innovations was combat responsiveness, streamlined and fast interface, and Their refinement of raid dungeons/ Normal Dungeons. Blizzard is mostly just good at copying everything else, Funny that they get called original a lot.
WoW's interface is only successfull because they made it modable anyways and intergrated the successful Interface addons into their core interface. although you could consider addons an innovations from blizzard too, but it was a large peice of success for them.