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Any Permadeath Game up?
EnayVovin
Member Posts: 4
Well, once in a whille there are a bunch of games in development saying they will have permadeath but they usually end up backing off.
Anyone knows a currently online, fully developed Permadeath MMORPG?
Comments
You should check for SERVERS inside existing games.
XP bonus could be 500% and Permadeath implemented on a WoW/EQ2 server without much troubles.
It would prolly always remain 1 server and no more. But any game with a player base big enought should consider such a server.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
changed it long ago a very long time ago.
That'd be cool. I'd play on a Permadeath server. Wouldn't play a healer type though! Can you imagine the pressure? If you screw up your buddies don't just have a little xp debt or anything like that. They are gone! And probably you are too.
You mean...
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
...
omg, I couldn't help myself.
Roma Victor will have a permadeath system in which you can become legendary, and then the next time you die your character is toast.
Some of the perks: There are things which only legendary players can do, like become emporer, lead a legion of soldiers, and other things. They will be hard to kill, but not because they have more "hit points", or because they have uber stats. It will be because they have people around them who protect them, including players and npcs.
It's gonna be suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-weet.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Would you get their stuff?
If they're perma-dead, then they don't have any need for it.
There is only one MMORPG that has 100% full, hardcore, perma-death:
Strive For Power
It was created, and is run, by 1 guy in Britian. It has been out for 2+ years. It also has many other unique and intresting features in addition to having perma-death.
I don't think there will be too many games with permadeath. Too many people just hate the idea and how will a lag or dis-co death be handled? But if you want permadeath then you can just delete your character if you die and re-roll another. This way you get the perma death you want and others who don't want it, won't be affected by it.
Pure genious
I am gonna paste this sentence as a reply, next time someone starts whining about the lack of Permadeath in a game.
Pure genious
I am gonna paste this sentence as a reply, next time someone starts whining about the lack of Permadeath in a game.
The word whining is often used by the simple-minded on boards like these. It's a go-to word for people who want to discredit someone, but don't have the ability to do it in any real sense.
Perma-death in a game is just as valid as any other feature. It doesn't have to be mandatory. Roma Victor has a great system, and if you look into it, you'll see that it adds greatly to the game, and they included it in a very ingenious fashion, bringing out the good in the feature and only providing it to those who want it.
Permadeath can greatly enhance the gaming experience, and make it much more exhilarating.
People who don't like it, I can understand. But don't dog on the people who do, just because you don't like it. Your views are not the end all and be all.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Well no game since UO has given me the butt clenching thrills associated with death because in early UO it really hurt to get killed and lose lots of stuff and time. If you got killed at the wrong time (like carrying a house deed) it could be devastating.
Perma Death may well be a way to re-introduce this kind of excitement that is sorely lacking from almost all MMO's currently in play.
I do however agree that Lag, game glitches, unforseen disconnects etc really make perma-death almost unfair unless these problems can be ironed out first. Dying from combat is one thing, dying from lag is quite another
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Good point.. The few games that do have permadeath, like Wizardry 8, which I have played, have been single player games.
But if you start giving 2nd chances to people who die in lag, people could easily find ways to "create" lag if they're about to die, and exploit that policy... so it's a tough thing to figure out a good system for.
I can't think of anything, off of the top of my head. I'd guess they'd just have to have every death be valid.. and the people who choose the perma-death route would need to be sure that they have good connections.
I know if I were playing in a perma-death game, and my game got laggy, I would do whatever I could to get to a safe spot and log.. but for people who don't have good connections, I don't really know what the remedy would be.
I still think it's a worthwhile game feature to include.. it adds greatly to the gameplay experience, as you said earlier in your post.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Well next time I am gonna use the word "complaining", if you don't like the word "whining".
And since I am a simple minded person, and I am not able to express deep thoughts like you do, I am allowed to make a bit of fun at their expenses.
Or shall I ask permission for it, your wiseness?
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Yes, the idea in itself is not bad, but like the PVP, the problem is that the devs cannot get it right.
Like PVP, permadeath have the big problem of balancing the feature with the fun factor.
Usually PVP ends up in Griefing and PKing.
Permadeath ends up with unproportionate penalty, in fact neutralising the fun factor.
In modern MMOs is just too easy to die, no matter how skilled you are.
Unless the devs will manage to revolutionise the entire gameplay making death less likely to happen, permadeath will always be a pain in the arse.
If devs can get the balance right, I am in for permadeath, but I dout it would be any time soon.
Yes, the idea in itself is not bad, but like the PVP, the problem is that the devs cannot get it right.
Like PVP, permadeath have the big problem of balancing the feature with the fun factor.
Usually PVP ends up in Griefing and PKing.
Permadeath ends up with unproportionate penalty, in fact neutralising the fun factor.
In modern MMOs is just too easy to die, no matter how skilled you are.
Unless the devs will manage to revolutionise the entire gameplay making death less likely to happen, permadeath will always be a pain in the arse.
If devs can get the balance right, I am in for permadeath, but I dout it would be any time soon.
Yup thats pretty much how I feel about it
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
While most likely not what you are looking for, MANGBAND has perma death:
http://www.mangband.org/
In fact, the only way to play is with permadeath as far as I know. You should see what peaple type in chat when their high level chracters get killed. I don't think I've ever seen someone sound so suicidally upset in any other game.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I have tried Mangband in the past and just tried out Strive for Power.
Both have features that completly kill roleplay and immersiveness and the focus seems to be in powergaming. A good example of this is that both have this system for instant global communication with every other player.
So maybe i am looking for something more than permadeath
But i was looking for just minimal roleplay quality other than permadeath. Not a big deal.
Trials of Ascension is utter overkill!!!! It is a freaking wet dream.
Minor flaw: still just a wet dream.
Well next time I am gonna use the word "complaining", if you don't like the word "whining".
And since I am a simple minded person, and I am not able to express deep thoughts like you do, I am allowed to make a bit of fun at their expenses.
Or shall I ask permission for it, your wiseness?
All I'm saying is that we were doing nothing even close to whining (or complaining), and your saying that we were makes it sound like anything that we said had no validity.
Go ahead and make fun, but you just look clueless.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
I just want to say also, check out Roma Victor. It has so many innovative features in the MMOG scene that they're impossible to count. And it'll be released within the next month or two.
One of the features is being able to become legendary, where you then can only die once more. But you can also take up many positions of power, including the emporer of rome. We're talking the true emporer in every sense. This is a game where what you do has a profound impact on the overall game, and where you can roleplay in a very deep way.
The NDA will drop soon, and hopefully they will have lived up to everything that they have promised.. and with this dev team, I have no doubt that they have.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
I am no fan of permadeath myself.
However, if you actually want to sacrifice your characters after they reach a point and the grind is much smaller, it could work. ''WTF I dont want to sacrifice my toons!''. Actually, if the goal of the game, instead of been character oriented, was diety oriented(or immortal spirit), instead of building your character you build your divinity or immortal spirit...and you need to sacrifice or retired a character for maximised progression. The grind need to be small and you need to change characters a LOT...a permadeath only mean a lesser reward, as the character is not the goal, but the tool.
In such a system you may be able to build ''Avatars'' after a point, and maybe those have a new life every month...and eventually many lifes and so on(so those Avatars cheat the permanent death and may be another focus of interest for players).
In order to make it appealing to the more casuals players, you need 2 basic tools IMO. First, after a point, the peoples who earn a lot on their Avatar should start playing weakers races, a MUCH weaker race...because it give better rewards for the immortal spirit or diety if successfull, so even if your incarnations are strongers, you pick weakers races and casuals turn to be MOST OF THE TIME playing strongers characters. Of course, you can always resume a basic race and get all those bonus and be quite good, but almost nothing to gain there, little point to do so. You main Avatar will be stronger then others Avatars if you play those weakers races, the more you earn stuff on weaker and weaker races, the stronger the Avatar become...so you want to group casuals, and they think you are much weaker, most of the time.
The casual problem in such a system mean that they also need another goal/goals that they can reach and be good at, just as good as the worst hardcores in those precises goals and challenges...everyone need a focus, from the casual, to the worst hardcore player, we all need goals. So intermediate stuff would need to be designed as well. The main Avatar is the goal for peoples who are hardcores and want to focus lot of time. Most casuals folks should be happy to be able to reach max level within a few weeks on a single character and be almost always stronger then hardcores. You need to find goals for the middle men. What after the casual reach 1 max level? Why would he care to reach it with another toon? The ultimate Avatar is a goal way to far for them, something they may ignore completely(or nearly, they will prolly find it nice to mess with and lose the avatar for the whole month while exploring a zone for the fun of it).
Your Avatar should not level by his actions...he level when your basic toons gain levels or achieve stuff. He could have goals on his own, but remember, you want player to developp the Avatar, not to play it, since the Avatar cheat on permanent death(worst case is 1 life per month, yet they should be able to evolve to quite a lot of lifes, and maybe reduce the duration for a week(after reaching 2 lifes per month, instead of increasing to 3 lifes per month, the next upgrade COULD be 1 life per 3 week or something in that line)).
Basically, what I am saying is...if the main developpment you focus in the game have nothing to do with characters deaths(you actually kill them yourself with a sacrifice option, or retired), then I could see it as fun.
The fact nobody find a nice formulae to make it appealing, dont mean it cant be nice. In such a system, the customisation of characters you want to sacrifice should be limited on purpose, while the Avatars should be extremely nice and cool looking and everything, grouping with a friend Avatar should always be quite special and quite the blast for you, as long as he accept to play his Avatar(and not really developp the main stuff to developp in the game in any form, yet some secondary goals could be nice). In fact, it would be good to have some ''deals'' like: Okay, you can play your lamestracethedevscouldthinkoff and join the group of casuals for 2 instanced, but in return, you are going to group us with your Avatar in the next Instanced...you see how stuff could be worked out to be appealing for all...just make sure the casuals remain usually stronger in comon groups, since they dont focus on the ''High End'', they need a direct reward and if hardcores complain, they are sissy lameass and I will be happy to tell them how much casuals they are! Dont forget, you need some others goals for the casuals to reach, stuff that may not affect the big Avatar, but maybe there could be smaller Avatars in many setting designed more for casuals in a precise setting(so it never replace a real Avatar simply because it lack access, a water spirit Avatar is not as nice as a normal Avatar, it can only access 2 or 3 zones maybe, but still, can be quite a blast for a Casual to earn this ''within reach goal'', while most hardcores would think twice before working on this and delaying work on the real Avatar).
I would never play a game I risk to lose everything I actually grind for...so if the character is the grind, then no, I cant bear it. If the grind is something beyond the character, yes, I can deal with it.
No matter what, I would need PvE and Instancing in such a game or I would leave after 1 player ''abuse me''. It would be an instant turn off and I would be unforgiving.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
there just isn't a place for permadeth in the style of game that exists today. Todays games have people hunting in groups with the ability to heal or revitalise or even reincarnate the dead. Permadeath would mean that most groups or friends who play online would have to be very careful all the time. The other big thing is server rules and balancing becomes a LOT harder - you don't want to killing too many lowbies and have them get fed up and leave the game - balancing your bad guys so they don't always kill you in a fight would be neccesary otherwise poeple would never advance very far.
I like the idea, but not in this style game. In ROLE PLAYING SIMULATIONS (as opposed to GAMES) it could work.
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