Originally posted by Kiamde Originally posted by rathma Me too but I don't know any way how they'd get their materials for the system that cheap. I guess we'll have to see.
They build all the chips in one factory. In the end, they only pay for labor and materials. They could probably build one unit for 80-120 dollars.
What I am worried about is the blu-ray drive. It is new technology and blu ray drives go for hundreds of dollars. Not sure how that will work.
I absolutely guarantee that if it's one dollar over 299.99, I will buy you one Kiamde. Take that to the bank. As for its production cost, it WILL be far more than its retail price. In the case of the PS2 and XBOX both, each cost roughly $150 more (about $450 total) to make than it retailed for at launch. It's the razor/razor blade theory. They take the loss on the console and and make it back on the games. That's just how it works.
Killzone can have the greatest graphics in the world for all I care. Killzone 1 sucked because of its bad gameplay, and I think Killzone 2 will go down the same. Remember when DOOM 3 came out and the first day everyone said it was the greatest? Well, after everyone got over the graphics and saw its lack of good gameplay, it was seen for what it really was. A bad game with pretty graphics.
Originally posted by rathma Me too but I don't know any way how they'd get their materials for the system that cheap. I guess we'll have to see.
They build all the chips in one factory. In the end, they only pay for labor and materials. They could probably build one unit for 80-120 dollars.
What I am worried about is the blu-ray drive. It is new technology and blu ray drives go for hundreds of dollars. Not sure how that will work.
Easy. Mass production. PC components that is high end is expencive due to the fact only a small percentage of PC users will buy them thus the price is set higher. Thanks to the mass production of the PS3 the cost is thus reduced. When you making 30K units the price would surely be higher than if you are making over 300K units to supply the PS3 to everyone.
The base system will not be over $299.99 , there will no doubt be bundle deals (i.e. extra controllers packaged games, other various accessories) that could reach $500. And where did you see something about the Blu-Ray drive. I know I read in a microsoft interview that they chose to not use Blu-Rays because they would send the cost of the 360 "through the rough" direct quote. I dunno how or why it would be different for PS3...
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
Originally posted by Ducky Kinda sad, but the PS3 has allmost double as fast as the Xbox 360 PS3 has 256 megs of ram that runs at 3.2Ghz... Gimme!! (I am a Xbox fanboi)
they run on two different types. the xboxs clock is actually double what it says because of the way they run it and everything. it was explained on some site i dont remember what site though.
You guys do realize no matter how good console graphics get, the resolution and the amount of detail you are able to see onscreen is going to completely counteract any benefit you might get from such a powerful machine, except for the framerate of course.
Originally posted by LordVanidor You guys do realize no matter how good console graphics get, the resolution and the amount of detail you are able to see onscreen is going to completely counteract any benefit you might get from such a powerful machine, except for the framerate of course.
Um..Did you watch the sony press confernce and the detailed info about the RSX? Im guessing you have not.
We still don't know about whether or not the Killzone video is real-time or not (I think it's certainly possible) ... IGN investigates: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615531p1.html
The press conference and all of the demos looked fantastic, I like the way that the smoke and explosions in the Killzone video mimic the volumetric explosions from an earlier tech demo ... I reckon the PS3 might eventually be able to pull that off in real-time (if it isn't already).
Originally posted by Ducky Kinda sad, but the PS3 has allmost double as fast as the Xbox 360 PS3 has 256 megs of ram that runs at 3.2Ghz... Gimme!! (I am a Xbox fanboi)
(PC Fanboi)
how do you figure? the Xbox has 512 megs of ram and it has 2 different 3 core cpus running at 3.2 GHZ and is running an isolated water cooled system. As with the PS3 being 1 CPU and 8 APUs cell processors, running at 3.2 ~ 4 Ghz. but the Xbox stats are out for anyone to see in many places.
The cool thing about the Xbox's graphics setup is it's running a ATI 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines. To just give you a hint, the best for the PC graphics card only uses 16-pixel pipelines and 6-vertex pipelines. But the funniest factor is that Sony has contacted and had Nvidia exects helping with the developement of the PS3 GPU. Which has it's own multi parallel dynamic pipelines.
The Xbox will stand on it's own i'm sure. Most of the stuff you are seeing in those videos are only Cinematics. Not real in-game video. if it was.. where is the GUI? how does he know when he's out of bullets?
Plus as for the release date, Xbox plans for a Christmas release .. and the PS3 is slated for a Spring release, which puts it only 6 months later.
Personally either will be great to have i guess. But ATI is taking that same technology and working on it's next major Graphics card for the PC. So, this time next year will be one hell of a ride
Kinda sad, but the PS3 has allmost double as fast as the Xbox 360
PS3 has 256 megs of ram that runs at 3.2Ghz... Gimme!!
(I am a Xbox fanboi)
(PC Fanboi)
how do you figure? the Xbox has 512 megs of ram and it has 2 different 3 core cpus running at 3.2 GHZ and is running an isolated water cooled system. As with the PS3 being only 1 , supposedly 9 core cpu. i've yet to see anything on this though. the 9 core is only a rumor i heard. but the Xbox stats are out for anyone to see in many places.
Most early figures do show the PS3 as having twice the capability of the xbox 360. Official quoted figures of the amount of data that each can cope with at any given time (total floating point performance) show the xbox 360 to push an astounding "1 Teraflop" ... the PS3 conference then boasted that the Sony machine can push nearly 2 Teraflops of information (is this per second?).
It all seems to make sense when you look at the specs.
Xbox 360: 3 cores at 3.2GHz, each able to process 2 different threads of information at any time (6 threads/different operations in total). The cores run alonside an impressive 1MB L2 Cache. The ATI graphics card runs at 500MHz with 48 shader pipelines. The 512MB RAM runs at 700MHz. "10-15 time greater in power than the Xbox"
PS3: Essentially 7 cores (called SPE's, part of the overall Cell Processor) running at 3.2GHz each, with an 8th core that isn't activated in the PS3 (lies dormant or handles excess data). Cell shares tasks among these SPEs, which can each handle 1 thread of information at a time (that's 7 threads/different operations in total). The cores run alongside a 512Kb L2 cache, with each SPE also having access to it's own (7x) 256Kb SRAM. The Nvidia graphics card runs at 550MHz and touts 'multiway shader pipelines' though I can't find the exact number. 256MB (main) RAM runs at a crazy 3.2GHz (remember the xbox 360 is running 700MHz RAM only) and another 256MB (video) RAM runs at 700MHz. "35 times greater in power than the PS2"
Nintendo Revolution: "two to three times greater in power than the GameCube"
Looks like the PS3 is miles ahead on paper, but it'll all be down to the games (and the ellusive revolution controller) in the end.
Forgot to mention ... PC Fanboi here, I'm just looking forward to the multi-core pentiums and the PC variations of the Nvidia and ATI graphics cards (both stated to be twice as powerful as anything on the market today). I'll keep coming back to and editing this post when i make more sense out of these specs or find updates
omg just did a bit of research on blu-ray, omg man 25gb on 1 lil disc, plus a 50gb version, god damn it, just imagin how huge games on discs lyk those cud b, to bad i cud only get 4 on my computer
Toughest rater in the world Try to impress me, please, i dare u
yeah i was editing my post i had ran across some info on better specs of the PS3..
And that is all true it will all boil down to the game companies making the games in the end. They will want to port their games over to as many systems as possible. to reach the most people for most sales. it's a given...
But i'm also a Nvidia fan in the PC domain.. so i'd definately go for the PS3 because they realized and went with Nvidia for their gpu But of course the Xbox sports a full out Media Suite built off their Media PC edition. As well as the Xbox Live for online play. And what i've seen for the PS2, it wouldn't suprise me to see a Linux variant for the PS3 for a media suite.
But overall it's pretty crazy, especially how the PC community is watching this fairly closely i think, because some of that technology could be ported over to the PC. All i know is we are going through a major technology jump. and in the next 2 years we are going to see some seriously realistic games come out. I didn't think i'd ever want things to get "too" realistic.. lol but it seems to be moving in that direction.
I was just wondering if you bough say the Xbox 360 with it's 3 3.2Ghz processors for $300 could you then pull them out and put them in a pc....... much cheaper than buying the processors alone.
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
Originally posted by Ducky Kinda sad, but the PS3 has allmost double as fast as the Xbox 360 PS3 has 256 megs of ram that runs at 3.2Ghz... Gimme!! (I am a Xbox fanboi)
The Xbox will stand on it's own i'm sure. Most of the stuff you are seeing in those videos are only Cinematics. Not real in-game video. if it was.. where is the GUI? how does he know when he's out of bullets?
I dont tihnk its a cinematic (maybe some parts are, but the majority i believe is gameplay) because of a few reasons... the sound is all off sync, or isnt put it in at all (the main characters weapon doesnt make any sound when he fires) if it were a cinematic this would definatly be cleaned up. The guy with the flamethrower is another factor; watch the flames hes shooting, it isnt a continuous stream and when a character is actually lit on fire the flames dont trail behind them as move, which again would probably be cleaned up if it were a cinematic. When the main character looks up and shoots one of the enemy soldiers he goes ragdoll and gets stuck on the railing... anyways, due to the incomplete nature of the demo it just looks like early gameplay to me. If it were a cinematic then I doubt it would have any of those problems.
Originally posted by Fitch I was just wondering if you bough say the Xbox 360 with it's 3 3.2Ghz processors for $300 could you then pull them out and put them in a pc....... much cheaper than buying the processors alone.
the cpus in a console are like apples and oranges compared to a PC. But of course if you were to manufacture your own motherboard to handle said processors.. then you could do it. And it's not 3 processors the Xbox has... it's 2 with 3 processing cores. just like the Power-PC from mac that has 2 cpus. but each CPU has 3 cores, so it's like having 6 processors in one computer. Plus i think the retail price of the Xbox is going to be around $500. just like the PS3. That is their initial offerings. But for the cheaper version it will probably be on a 52nm process vise the original 90nm process. which will allow for the $300 model.
xbox 360 won't be around 500, the ps3 with all its new technology will be around that price...but you can qoute me on it i'm betting the xbox 360 will be 299
Qoute: "I neva *ucked anybody over in my life, who didn't have it comin' to 'im, you got that? All I have in this world is my balls, and my word, and I don't break 'em for no one, jou understand?" Tony Montana
This is a direct quote from IGN.com based on their trip to the to microsoft and interviews with the exec's:
"How much will Xbox 360 cost? The sweet spot for the cost of a new console at launch is $299. This is a good estimate of what a core package will cost for Xbox 360. Right now we know that every system comes with a twenty gigabyte hard drive. The system is DVD ready out of the box and we have seen the remote, but there is no word on whether that will come packaged with the console. The bundle has become an incredibly popular sales technique, so don't be surprised to see more comprehensive bundles that include controllers and peripherals for around $500."
Why's everyone thinking all the tech demos are pre-rendered? Does it actually say somewhere?
If you look closely at the Gran Turismo demo, you can see the screen stutter for a second... And if everything was pre-rendered, you'd think they'd take the time to smooth things down. For being pre-rendered, everything is still a little blocky
applaud Microsoft this E3 for being the most honest and open company out there. Despite how the game footages they showed are based off dev kits that don't even represent 1/3 of X360's power they gave us an absolute honest look into most of the games currently in development. MS stood up and took all the crap from the Sony fangirls and ignorant sources (G4 for example, seriously did anyone watch that E3 LIVE coverage on G4 last night? What a load of crap, that was an absolute hack job how they praised every aspect of Sony's conference, don't even get me started on this, Morgan Webb = dumbest gamer on the planet!).
Of course all the fanboys were in Playstations bed as they drooled all over the TECH DEMOS and the CG trailer of Hypezone, seriously if Sony showed off PS3 games like MS did with 360 we probably wouldn't be all that impressed either, just look at Fight Night 3, and that Sega Phantom game the only 2 games on PS3 publically shown that wasn't a tech demo, I sure wasn't stunned by the current power of PS3 after seeing those, one look at the tech demos and it's "holi crp ps3 is teh spr cpu!!!!!1". Sure they could've made like Sony and gave us the same crap just to start hype, but MS instead showed us exactly whats in on the X360 and they did it proudly, and even than we saw some impressive games like Gears of War, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion, and DoA 4. I applaud MS and I can't wait for X360 and all it's games.
It's all about the games and if it's like last time it's still PS over anything else but I do hope they can do that FF7 in real time I sooo would love to play that
Originally posted by Sinn applaud Microsoft this E3 for being the most honest and open company out there. Despite how the game footages they showed are based off dev kits that don't even represent 1/3 of X360's power they gave us an absolute honest look into most of the games currently in development. MS stood up and took all the crap from the Sony fangirls and ignorant sources (G4 for example, seriously did anyone watch that E3 LIVE coverage on G4 last night? What a load of crap, that was an absolute hack job how they praised every aspect of Sony's conference, don't even get me started on this, Morgan Webb = dumbest gamer on the planet!).
Of course all the fanboys were in Playstations bed as they drooled all over the TECH DEMOS and the CG trailer of Hypezone, seriously if Sony showed off PS3 games like MS did with 360 we probably wouldn't be all that impressed either, just look at Fight Night 3, and that Sega Phantom game the only 2 games on PS3 publically shown that wasn't a tech demo, I sure wasn't stunned by the current power of PS3 after seeing those, one look at the tech demos and it's "holi crp ps3 is teh spr cpu!!!!!1". Sure they could've made like Sony and gave us the same crap just to start hype, but MS instead showed us exactly whats in on the X360 and they did it proudly, and even than we saw some impressive games like Gears of War, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion, and DoA 4. I applaud MS and I can't wait for X360 and all it's games.
Comments
They build all the chips in one factory. In the end, they only pay for labor and materials. They could probably build one unit for 80-120 dollars.
What I am worried about is the blu-ray drive. It is new technology and blu ray drives go for hundreds of dollars. Not sure how that will work.
I absolutely guarantee that if it's one dollar over 299.99, I will buy you one Kiamde. Take that to the bank. As for its production cost, it WILL be far more than its retail price. In the case of the PS2 and XBOX both, each cost roughly $150 more (about $450 total) to make than it retailed for at launch. It's the razor/razor blade theory. They take the loss on the console and and make it back on the games. That's just how it works.
Killzone can have the greatest graphics in the world for all I care. Killzone 1 sucked because of its bad gameplay, and I think Killzone 2 will go down the same. Remember when DOOM 3 came out and the first day everyone said it was the greatest? Well, after everyone got over the graphics and saw its lack of good gameplay, it was seen for what it really was. A bad game with pretty graphics.
They build all the chips in one factory. In the end, they only pay for labor and materials. They could probably build one unit for 80-120 dollars.
What I am worried about is the blu-ray drive. It is new technology and blu ray drives go for hundreds of dollars. Not sure how that will work.
Easy. Mass production. PC components that is high end is expencive due to the fact only a small percentage of PC users will buy them thus the price is set higher. Thanks to the mass production of the PS3 the cost is thus reduced. When you making 30K units the price would surely be higher than if you are making over 300K units to supply the PS3 to everyone.
BTW the REAL teck demo of PS3 ... http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasyvii/index.html
Enjoy the ACTUAL real time opening of FF VII in REAL TIME. (yes it IS improved gfx wise... DOH! LOL)
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
The base system will not be over $299.99 , there will no doubt be bundle deals (i.e. extra controllers packaged games, other various accessories) that could reach $500. And where did you see something about the Blu-Ray drive. I know I read in a microsoft interview that they chose to not use Blu-Rays because they would send the cost of the 360 "through the rough" direct quote. I dunno how or why it would be different for PS3...
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
they run on two different types. the xboxs clock is actually double what it says because of the way they run it and everything. it was explained on some site i dont remember what site though.
foind it.....here http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/default.aspx#210
You guys do realize no matter how good console graphics get, the resolution and the amount of detail you are able to see onscreen is going to completely counteract any benefit you might get from such a powerful machine, except for the framerate of course.
Um..Did you watch the sony press confernce and the detailed info about the RSX? Im guessing you have not.
It's likely to be pricey ... 50k Yen or $465 stated here: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615745p1.html
We still don't know about whether or not the Killzone video is real-time or not (I think it's certainly possible) ... IGN investigates: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615531p1.html
The press conference and all of the demos looked fantastic, I like the way that the smoke and explosions in the Killzone video mimic the volumetric explosions from an earlier tech demo ... I reckon the PS3 might eventually be able to pull that off in real-time (if it isn't already).
I say it'll be $500 or more. The PSP was $190 in Japan, and it's $250 here.
(PC Fanboi)
how do you figure? the Xbox has 512 megs of ram and it has 2 different 3 core cpus running at 3.2 GHZ and is running an isolated water cooled system. As with the PS3 being 1 CPU and 8 APUs cell processors, running at 3.2 ~ 4 Ghz. but the Xbox stats are out for anyone to see in many places.
The cool thing about the Xbox's graphics setup is it's running a ATI 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines. To just give you a hint, the best for the PC graphics card only uses 16-pixel pipelines and 6-vertex pipelines. But the funniest factor is that Sony has contacted and had Nvidia exects helping with the developement of the PS3 GPU. Which has it's own multi parallel dynamic pipelines.
The Xbox will stand on it's own i'm sure. Most of the stuff you are seeing in those videos are only Cinematics. Not real in-game video. if it was.. where is the GUI? how does he know when he's out of bullets?
Plus as for the release date, Xbox plans for a Christmas release .. and the PS3 is slated for a Spring release, which puts it only 6 months later.
Personally either will be great to have i guess. But ATI is taking that same technology and working on it's next major Graphics card for the PC. So, this time next year will be one hell of a ride
Toughest rater in the world
Try to impress me, please, i dare u
yeah i was editing my post i had ran across some info on better specs of the PS3..
And that is all true it will all boil down to the game companies making the games in the end. They will want to port their games over to as many systems as possible. to reach the most people for most sales. it's a given...
But i'm also a Nvidia fan in the PC domain.. so i'd definately go for the PS3 because they realized and went with Nvidia for their gpu
But of course the Xbox sports a full out Media Suite built off their Media PC edition. As well as the Xbox Live for online play. And what i've seen for the PS2, it wouldn't suprise me to see a Linux variant for the PS3 for a media suite.
But overall it's pretty crazy, especially how the PC community is watching this fairly closely i think, because some of that technology could be ported over to the PC. All i know is we are going through a major technology jump. and in the next 2 years we are going to see some seriously realistic games come out. I didn't think i'd ever want things to get "too" realistic.. lol but it seems to be moving in that direction.
I was just wondering if you bough say the Xbox 360 with it's 3 3.2Ghz processors for $300 could you then pull them out and put them in a pc....... much cheaper than buying the processors alone.
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
The Xbox will stand on it's own i'm sure. Most of the stuff you are seeing in those videos are only Cinematics. Not real in-game video. if it was.. where is the GUI? how does he know when he's out of bullets?
I dont tihnk its a cinematic (maybe some parts are, but the majority i believe is gameplay) because of a few reasons... the sound is all off sync, or isnt put it in at all (the main characters weapon doesnt make any sound when he fires) if it were a cinematic this would definatly be cleaned up. The guy with the flamethrower is another factor; watch the flames hes shooting, it isnt a continuous stream and when a character is actually lit on fire the flames dont trail behind them as move, which again would probably be cleaned up if it were a cinematic. When the main character looks up and shoots one of the enemy soldiers he goes ragdoll and gets stuck on the railing... anyways, due to the incomplete nature of the demo it just looks like early gameplay to me. If it were a cinematic then I doubt it would have any of those problems.
? It is of actaul gameplay! And you should check out the 2 min killzone gameplay footage at gamespot...its friggin insane.
Remember ps3 is coming out a year later then x360 and if you look at gears of war for xbox360 it looks almost as good.
Lol tell me about it.
I almost peed my pants when I saw the trailer for killzone and almost cried when I found out it's all pre-rendered.
? It is of actaul gameplay! And you should check out the 2 min killzone gameplay footage at gamespot...its friggin insane.
Remember ps3 is coming out a year later then x360 and if you look at gears of war for xbox360 it looks almost as good.
Lol tell me about it.
I almost peed my pants when I saw the trailer for killzone and almost cried when I found out it's all pre-rendered.
For some reason I had my number backwards and was thinking 3 proccessors with 2 cores each...weird....
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
Qoute: "I neva *ucked anybody over in my life, who didn't have it comin' to 'im, you got that? All I have in this world is my balls, and my word, and I don't break 'em for no one, jou understand?" Tony Montana
This is a direct quote from IGN.com based on their trip to the to microsoft and interviews with the exec's:
"How much will Xbox 360 cost?
The sweet spot for the cost of a new console at launch is $299. This is a good estimate of what a core package will cost for Xbox 360. Right now we know that every system comes with a twenty gigabyte hard drive. The system is DVD ready out of the box and we have seen the remote, but there is no word on whether that will come packaged with the console. The bundle has become an incredibly popular sales technique, so don't be surprised to see more comprehensive bundles that include controllers and peripherals for around $500."
The full FAQ is located Here
Attitude is no substitute for Competence. ~Eric Raymond
Why's everyone thinking all the tech demos are pre-rendered?
Does it actually say somewhere?
If you look closely at the Gran Turismo demo, you can see the screen stutter for a second... And if everything was pre-rendered, you'd think they'd take the time to smooth things down. For being pre-rendered, everything is still a little blocky
Of course all the fanboys were in Playstations bed as they drooled all over the TECH DEMOS and the CG trailer of Hypezone, seriously if Sony showed off PS3 games like MS did with 360 we probably wouldn't be all that impressed either, just look at Fight Night 3, and that Sega Phantom game the only 2 games on PS3 publically shown that wasn't a tech demo, I sure wasn't stunned by the current power of PS3 after seeing those, one look at the tech demos and it's "holi crp ps3 is teh spr cpu!!!!!1". Sure they could've made like Sony and gave us the same crap just to start hype, but MS instead showed us exactly whats in on the X360 and they did it proudly, and even than we saw some impressive games like Gears of War, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion, and DoA 4. I applaud MS and I can't wait for X360 and all it's games.
It's all about the games and if it's like last time it's still PS over anything else but I do hope they can do that FF7 in real time I sooo would love to play that
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
Testify! Testify!
Go Xbox 360!!