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An experienced mmorpg players REVIEW of MOURNING
Zaxx99
Member Posts: 1,761
I have been playing mmos since back in 1997 in the early days of Ultima Online. Loved UO. Until Trammel came along and suddenly no victims were in felucia anymore as everyone was hiding in the safe from pvp area of Trammel. No prey meant no hunters in the woods waiting for victims. No fun.
Next was Asherons Call and Everquest bought at the same time. Asherons Call easily won out my choice of time. And a lot of time it got. Played Asherons Call 2. Pretty but hated it. Played SWG, hated it. Played DAoC, great. DAoC is a great game worthy of some time. Played Lineage 2. Hated it. Played it a good whiloe until level 25 or so. No customization sucked. Too many macros and bots. Just no fun period. Played Saga of Ryzom, good game. Getting better as time goes on. Played Project Entropia. Good game, fun as hell, but complete waste of money and costs much more to actually play even though its free then regular mmos. Played The Sims Online. Fun if you have an imagination and like chat rooms. 
Played EQ2. Ultra pretty graphics. Way over simplfied. Gay. Hated it. Played WoW. Too fast. To many kiddies. Made the fantasy mmo feel like a fast paced and really cartoonish action game, didn't like it.
There is my history of what I played, what I liked and what I didnt like.
And here is my honest, non-biased review of "Mourning".
While I hated to spend $19.95 on it, my curiosity over the most trash-talked mmo in a long time was too much, and I felt that my review of the game in its current state might help others that have thought of purchasing it come to a decision over if it is really worth their money, and more importantly, their time.
My review will come in pieces through out this thread.
Scroll down for more detailed review information as currently I am waiting for the download at fileplanet.com. at 10:50 pm from a selection of 4 mirrors to Dl the client, I am in a line of 263 waiting for the download. Add the people who download immediately becuase they pay for a subscription to Fileplanet and the other 3 mirrors, and looks like well over 500 people are likely in line at this moment to DL the Mourning client. Kinda surprising honestly considering all the horrid publicity the Mourning game and its PRs and devs have gotten the past 6 months.
More info coming....
- Zaxx
Comments
Well I can only ask if you (zaxtor99 ) can get a ingame movie of combat (there is a fan movie on 64mb that shows a few seconds of combat only). Fraps has a demo option that allows 30 seconds of recording. (You will most likely explain combat in review but I like to see it also).
Also hope that there is no patch on the day you need to play since every patch sinks the (npc or login) server until "guy that resets server" gets back.
Hmm... Fileplanet has a single server queue. That means people are there to download any file, not just mourning. IT could be any download, I doubt anymore than 2-4 are waiting for mourning.
Would it be logical for 500 people waiting for a download when the top population is 30 people in game?
In the end it doenst matter what the game is like. You are supporting a corrupt nasty company that is out there degreading mmorpg business standards. If you hated the game you listed above, your going to get a wake up call with mourning.
And yes, Derfel is right. They have the same server queues for all downloads. Type "Mourning" on Fileplanet, a old 1999 game and some WoW mods come up(and have more downloads/activity) before it lol.
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Hmm... Fileplanet has a single server queue. That means people are there to download any file, not just mourning. IT could be any download, I doubt anymore than 2-4 are waiting for mourning.
Would it be logical for 500 people waiting for a download when the top population is 30 people in game?
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Yes, Derfel this makes perfect sense. I have never used Fileplanet, and it simply made no sense that everyone in line was waiting for a download of the Mourning client.
Thanks for the info.
My current status of my Mourning review: Game client is 39% downloaded (High speed cable net connection)
Total time invested so far: 1 hour, 22 minutes.
Total invested: $19.95
- Zaxx
More info coming...
I wouldn't exspect much tonight- egomancer left a message that the servers are unstable and then left(never said when it will be fixed). I bet that the server will be down when you login.
Thank you very much for this *expected* review of Mourning, however, that being said, I do not think you can remain unbiased in your conclusions about MMORPG - afterall, to each their own eh? We all have a few certain mechanics and our own gaming styles that suit us fine and either make or break a game. Allow others to make their own decisions? Just a mild suggestion...personal experience is always more valuable then a plethora of second hand info.
"when life knocks you to your knees...well, thats the best posistion to pray in, isn't it ?"
Yes, but the problem with the game lies with competely unstable servers(with a fundemental problem in code that causes lag for everyone when more than 30 ppl are on), a very buggy game(called "decent" and "half-full" by devs) and a unethical company(spammed pre-orders, posts IPs on personal enemies).
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/37720/setstart/1/loadclass/35
I think what is trying to do is just to judge if this game is playable, in terms of mechanics, gameplay or server stability.
I don't think he wants to judge the game style.
So go on with the review
Okay....
Been in the game of Mourning now for the past 2 hours and 30 minutes.
Is Mourning vaporware? Hardly. It is as real as any other mmo out there.
As soon as it was downloaded, I had no problems getting the game started. Nice log in box that spent about 10 minutes or so auto-patching the game. Easy log in and it looked professional.
CHARACTER CREATION:
Very basic, four (I think) races. Male/Female. I chose the human male variety to get things started off. No possible choices for "face". Only one. A few hairstyles. About 8 shades of hair color. About 6 shades of skin color. No height or body thickness options. Then I chose a name.
Afterwards, I selected "Enter game" with my newly designed avatar to find that I was in a starting city within about 20 seconds of load time.
Controls for character movement are very straight-forward. Arrow keys move you, space to jump, tab for run/walk etc etc.. standard layout. Nothing fancy here.
GRAPHICS:
Surprisingly, the graphics are almost as high quality as those seen in EQ2! Attention to detail has been made in this game. The building walls look like marble, the brick path ways look real. Characters are not super fancy, but not too simple either. Movement running is nothing less than standard mmo stuff. I am surprised at this point. Controls work well, effortlessly and without hesitation. The camera angle is very easy to adjust and swing to any angle you like. You can also zoom in and out or get a 1st person perspective.
The biggest eye-catcher graphic wise is the immersive mountains that tower over your head in almost every direction. Clouds float overhead and the shadows of the clouds move slowly over the terrain. The stone pathways seem to wind their way from the human starting area through the rugged mountains, sometimes switch-backing their way up or down a very steep cliff. Veering off the paths seems to offer little mobility in any direction. What I mean is that there really isn't a whole lot of wide open spaces you can trek across that I saw in my exploration. Pretty much pathways or no way. There are some spots where you can take a route through trees and make shortcuts, but it always seems to lead right back to the path sooner then later. (Perhaps this may have just been because of the area I explored with tall, steep mountains seeming to block most directions) The cool thing with the graphics is the terrain is very hilly and uneven, and your avatar moves perfectly over the terrain, never seeming to step through it or be above the ground. This was a very impressive detail they got right that would could look very awkward over such rough terrain. In fact, I've seen DAoC characters seem to step through the ground on rare occasions, but I never noticed anything like this in my travels in Mourning.
I have no idea how big this world really is yet. After following a path or two for about 2 hours only stopping a few times to combat mobs, I got the feeling that I had barely scratched the surface of the world to be seen. When climbing a very tall mountain, I noticed that the terrain went from lush, green shrubs and forest trees and birds chirping happily in the background to icy, snow covered terrain and the background sounds started to become wintry, cold sounding wind blowing through the trees.
COMBAT:
Here is where I was disappointed. The combat with the mobs seen was way too basic and I really hope that they add to this. When attacking a mob, it's as simple as making sure your weapon is equiped and hitting an "Attack" button. The movements here is what is really lacking at this stage. You avatars postion doesn't change, he seems to be relaxed between swings as he waits for the mob to have his swing at you. Numbers or "evade" float over the head of the fighting player and mob to reflect damage.
Since I chose a warrior, I havent seen any magic war spells. I did see a player buffing with magic and it was very colorful and pretty to watch. It looks like they didnt spare any attention to the magic spell details. Also with magic, it seems that you earn experience and can use it to learn spells from many different types of magic school npcs such as Necromancy spells from a necromancy npc or Illusionist spells from a illusionist npc. Once these spells are trained, you can then use experience to upgrade those spells or buy a whole new type of spell.
SCREEN LAYOUT:
Inventory layout, health and mana bars, the chat box, a compass, and a hotbar for cool fight moves or magic is standard and easily navigated. Each box can be moved to anywhere on the screen you like. And the chat box size for example can be adjusted with ease. The layout reminds me of Dark Age of Camelot and is very adjustable to suit your preference.
DEATH:
Death seems to result in you being deposited back to your starting postion in your hometown. A penalty affects your stats such as Stength and Focus and stuff by about 10% or so and by gaining experience, these penalties subside and your stats go back to normal. (Very similar to the Vitea penalty seen in Asherons Call). As far as I saw, dying to mobs resulted in no inventory loss of any kind.
OKAY. GAME SOUNDS GREAT! WHAT GIVES?
There are problems that look like they could be overcome.
Small glitches are everywhere.. examples of these are having to almost be on top of a targeted mob to attack him, infrequent but frustrating freeze ups of movement for a few seconds where nothing can be done as the game client seems to be "thinking" and pauses EVERYTHING while it does so, and some mobs and npcs seeming to be underground and impossible to target.
...These seem very fixable to me and I'm sure these ruffles will be ironed out with a little time.
Lack of players is about the biggest problem I saw, with only 12 players logged on when I logged into this world.
I would have liked to seen a few more mobs, but in my travels I did see atleast 15 different types of mobs, including giant spiders, bugs, wolves, undead, bears, ice golems, stone golems, and more. The golems detail was exremely impressive. They were big and just looked way cool.
The melee battles need some work, more movements and actions would make the standard click to fight battles more enjoyable no doubt.
There is a few more minor detials I noticed that I am not recalling as it is about 3am my time and I am very tired, hehe.
CONCLUSION:
With what I have heard about Mourning, and what I went in expecting... I was EXTREMELY impressed. And for over two hours, I was immersed in the world. I will definately play more! There looks to be a LOT to do and lot of skills to train and use. I haven't even scratched this, or the world for that matter. I can tell there is a TON more to see, do, and learn!
Is this the best mmo out there? I don't think so (yet anyhow). The main reason is lack of players first and foremost, lack of content, and a few too many bugs still in the game. But it is VERY playable and even enjoyable none-the-less.
I will no doubt put more time into this un-expected surprise of a game then I did in the way over-rated Everquest 2. Does this mean Mourning is better? No. Just to me, EQ2 was so over-hyped it was bound to be a disappointment. And it was, mainly with its over-simplicity. Mourning is more challenging, that is easy to see from just a few hours playing. But it also has more bugs and a lot less people. But to me, it is still closer to the style and type of fantasy mmo I prefer then something over produced, over simplifed, and over glorified like EQ2. And it looks like there will be a LOT more character customiztion as in skill points and experience points that can be spent as you chose in Mourning. This is what I like and reminds me more of the Asherons Call skills type of flexibility.
From reading the forums at Mourning now, and comparing it to what I saw there 4 months ago, they are more professional there now then I have ever seen. They also are clearly working hard on this game and are making improvements and squashing bugs every single day.
Mourning isn't a scam or a sham to rip people off, this is VERY easy to see once you spend a little bit of time in the game. This is where I take back everything I said bad about Mourning in the months leading up to this night. I am truly shocked at the game I saw tonight, even though it is FAR from perfect at this point. It is easy to see that the time and resources invested in the making of Mourning is truly from their hearts and desire to make a great game. The money they make, even if they have sold 5,000 copies divided by the number of hours obviously spent on the design of the game so far would certianly be less then a dollar per hour... probably more like under 5 cents per hour of time invested. This is easy to see once the game is played... and its more then obvious that there is absolutely no rip-people-off goals here.
I truly and honestly think the game is worth $19.95 even at this point. Not $49.95 no way. But $19.95 and $8.95 per month is definately well worth all the time, detail, and devotion these people have invested in this game. And it is even fun! a Little glitchey, yes, but fun.
It will likely improve a lot more as long as they get a little support and keep their passion high.
Thumbs up to Mourning! Nowhere near the perfect mmo, but the perfect mmo vision can be seen in their hard work. Keep in mind this was not Sony or Blizzard that made this game, and I think anyone will truly be shocked at their experience playing Mourning.
Graphics: 9/10 Sound: 8/10 Controls: 8/10 Customization: 5/10 Spell effects: 9/10
Lag/freeze ups: 3/10 Originality: 9/10 Fun: 9/10 Potential: 10/10
My overall score of Mourning is a score that shocks me: 78% (out of 100)
(Calculated by taking my 9 scores, adding them, dividing by 9, then multiplying by 10 for a % score)
I honestly expected to be giving Mourning a horrid review and was only investing my time and money to give the game another bad review if it needed one, and out of sheer curiosity. I half expected to not even be able to play the game/log in/play without crashing for more then 5 minutes. Instead I played crash free in the game for 2.5 hours!
... I am still shocked and very tired. [Yawn]
- Zaxx
Zaxtor I am willing to accept your review with the benefit of the doubt, but quite honestly I don't think that your review is complete or inpartial:
You described the basic things of a game, but omitted all the rest.
1) Graphic which you rated 9/10, it s a bit overated since we have seen the screenshots which put this game at the same level of DAoC.
2)Combat: The character can fight, and so what?
By your own admission the animation is not well done.
Plus you should describe what stats and skills are available and how they influence the combat.
3)Are there any quest?
You didn't mention any
4)Is there any Crafting?
You didn't mention any
5)Is there any Lore or main storyline to follow?
You didn't mention any
6)Guild System is implemented and most importantly, is it working?
You didn't mention it
7)How PVP system work? Is there any kind of reward/penalty?
You didn't mention it
8)Is the most revolutionary thing in Mourning being implemented, the Bloodline system?
You didn't mention it
9)How the character progress or level?
You didn't mention it
10)Are there any dungeons which you can raid, with named to kill? Can you raid?
You didn't mention it
11)How is grouping, can you group at all?
You didn't mention it
12)How often and for how long are the servers on?
You didn't mention it
13)Overall is there anything fun to do in this game, something you can achieve, what are the reasons that make you play this game?
You didn't mention it
Your review was way incomplete, I suggest you try harder to convince people that this game is not just a piece of shit (POS).
PS: I am open minded, if the game is really a playable and enjoyable game, I will accept it.
But I cannot accept a poor review such as yours, as a proof that this game got better
What so hard to understand about this- it isn't the game itself(well...thats crap too), its the total unprofessonal and unethical business practices they use. As for your "review" it seemed like a bias 2 hour review of a game. Any mmorpg can be fun for a few hours, before you find out the server will be down 50% of the time, and there are no quests or people online ever. The game you described sounded like a old, buggy version of EQ1 with 2 ppl, nothing new at all. The models are compete shite, so I would go back a rephase that. This game isn't a mmorpg, my CS server has more people online then this whole game does.
What a real review from someone who isn't a mindless fanboy?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/40040/setstart/1/loadclass/35
Nothing unbias about that review. Get a job ego.....
look at these leet graphics-
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/attachment.php3?s=&postid=195774
Graphics:9/10?!?!?!?!?!?
I've seen the graphics. You should probably smoke less weed when reviewing a game.
Ste2000 -
I gave a simple review based only on what I experienced in the 2.5 hours in which I played. The questions that you ask are rarely found in ANY review... especially questions like "what stats affect the combat and how do they work?" Some of the questions you ask me to include in a review could only be answered in a complete disection of the game, perhaps a players strategy guide by Prima or something.
While you ask some legitimate questions like "Does grouping work?" I did not have that experience in my limited travels, so I did not see it work. However, there is an easy to navigate menu (much the same as found in DAoC) with a group tab where you can invite, disband and see the stats of potential group members. I doubt that this would be there if grouping was disfunctional. I believe I did mention the lack of players at this time, and that would reflect in you not seeing a write up on my grouping experience... and for that matter PvP combat.
Some of you mention that graphics cannot possibly be a 9/10. This is based more on opinion then is fact, as is much of the scores of ANY review. However, the graphics are very nicely done, they do immerse you effectively, and honestly the trees and terrain looks better then in even the most recent expanion of DAoC (Again, this is my opinion) Obviously seeing the graphics in motion while playing might just be better then you looking though all the (old) screenshots, picking the one that looks the worst out of them all, and you basing the graphics score on the worst screenshot alone.
I am not going to justify the score or the review that I gave. I am sorry if my honest, non-biased review somehow offends some of you who's only desire is to trash any mmo but the one you favor, especially a game which you have trashed in recent past. My review is only based on what I experienced in my time in the game, nothing more. Why would I write about stuff that I didn't experience? In time, my ratings of the game could go down... or could go up as well.
Again, remember that I have been VERY slanted against Mourning for many months. I was the one slamming it mainly for the lack of professionalism and lack of screenshots, etc that I witnessed on their forums months ago. But to let that effect my overall 2.5 hr experience of the game itself would be unfair. The depth and features that ARE working in the game now did utterly shock me, and therefore you have the review I gave.
Also... you act as if I gave the game a 100% score with no problems. An overall score of a 78% is not a fanboy score. I can assure you that I am no fanboy. Perhaps those that are scrutinizing and bashing my review of my game experience and bashing Mourning are simply trolls or haters of Mourning? This seems to me more likely then my score of a 78% being a fanboy review score.
Keep in mind that if you haven't played the game, and are trying to correct my review or score.... this would be kindof like someone seeing a picture of a car in a magazine trying to correct and offer more info about that car then someone who has actually test drove that car for 3 hours.
Furthermore, if you have legitimate questions about the game which I may have experienced, I will be more then happy to answer them. But to just throw out questions which you know damn well I have not experienced such as "raiding" or "being in a guild" is ubsurd and nothing more then trolling my review at this point.
Thanks. My overall score of Mourning still stands at a very solid 78%. That is my opinion, and for those of you that wanna give it a 2% or whatever, especially those of you who have not even played the game... perhaps it is time for you to "back-up" the constant trashing of the game you spew.
- Zaxx
I don't think I'd call the graphics a 9 out of 10, but they're not that bad. Their grass objects are actually among the best I've seen in an MMORPG. They've done a good job bump-mapping most of their terrain and objects, too. There are numerous graphics "flaws" though; basically, signs of a talented but somewhat unskilled, rushed, or lacking attention to detail artist. Little bits like textures that don't line up quite right, or don't tile well. Bad meshes that let you walk into them, or fall through cracks in the floor. And the character art is mediocre at best.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
I will also add a link to download a new unofficial mourning trailer video nicely done by Brando at the Mourning website. Grab the video here:
http://www.sovereignbalance.com/public/MourningPlayersVideo.avi
-----------------------
You'll need DivX player to play the downloaded video.
- You can obtain DivX for free here: http://www.divx.com/divx/
(Click the free trial option, unless you wanna pay for the full version.. but the free version has worked fine for me for many months now)
- Zaxx
So you played the game 2.5 hours and you gave it 78%?
No wonder you can't answer my questions.
You don't even know if some features work or not, and you dare to give such a positive score?
You came to a early conclusion that the game is good just because you wanted to make it look good, be honest.
Your review and your reply indicate that you haven't got a clue of what you are talking about.
You don't know how to make an unbiased review and what a proper review should include.
My questions are totally pertinent, they are the basics of a good review, I don't expect you to be too articulate, like a professional writer, but at least you should be able to touch all the features that are part of the game, and give some hints.
Which criteria you based your review on?
You don't know if there are any quests, or if there is any crafting.
You don't know if the Bloodline system is working, if grouping exist and how does it work, if the server is stable or if it possible to make Guilds.
Raiding? you don't know about that either.
In fact you skipped all the main feature that are integral part of an MMORPG, and you want me to accept your review as God gift?
Move along mate, we had enough of Mourning Fanboys in disguise.
Or if you want to prove me wrong, play the damn game a little bit more and write a proper review, if you want to be taken seriously.
PS: If you don't want to be criticised so much, just change the title of your thread to "My personal opinion on Mourning".
As your personal opinion you are allowed to say anything, even that Mourning is the best MMORPG ever.
But a title like "REVIEW of Mourning" is just misleading, because everyone can see that this is not a proper review, and 2.5 hours are not enough to make a serious review of the game.
When I was reading your review I was almost convinced to at least download and try the game. The problem is your "Conclusion." I am sorry, but that conclusion was a little over the top. You went from trying to give an unbiased opinion in a 2-3 hour play session to completely touting and defending the developers of Mourning.
I am not talking about defending them based on your gaming session, but rather defending everything from the negative attacks in the forums to whether they are scammers. How does your playtime in anyway give you insight to the issues raised in your conclusion? I am not knocking your review at all. In fact, I thought it was very well written. However, my suggestion would have been to either make your statements about the prior negative attacks at the beginning of your post, or delete them completely. You would have retained a lot more credibility. I am not saying you do not have credibility, but the conclusion does make the motives behind the post somewhat suspect.
Other than my reservations, thanks for the review.
As I have stated, that is the timeframe of my experience in the game, and the score I gave it based on this, yes. How many times do I have to repeat myself here?? Since you obviosuly disagree and want to so strongly argue my score... how many hours have you spent in the game? Hmmm? Okay then. Though so. Go troll another thread eh?
Again, as I have already stated before... I reviewed the game honestly to finally try and see for myself how horrid this game actually was... and was impressed by what I experienced partly due to the fact of expecting such a disaster going into it. And no, if i was trying to make it look good and that's all, I would have given it a score in the 90's perhaps. Instead you have my honest review. A 78% A high C. Again,
how many times must I repeat this? {sigh}
... And you know sooo much more about the game having not played it for 5 seconds, much less 2.5 hours?? Uh huh.
I hate to break it to you, but just because my review goes against your pre-concieved idea of what the game is, does not mean that I am wrong and you are correct. A review is simply one persons perception of what he has experienced. And I gave all the scrores and a lot of info on what I did experience. If you are truly looking for more, and are soooo interested in every aspect and facet of the game, maybe you should buy the game and try it yourself huh? .... Uh okay. I thought not.
Secondly, if I was the Mourning fanboy that you mention, don't you think you would have heard me praising my game before my review? Don't you think I would have pre-ordered it months ago and paid $29.95 vs the price now of $19.95? Do you think I would have admitted there are several problems with the game, resulting in the 78% vice a higher score? Good grief man... flame on
... And talking about being taken seriously - The only way I can seriously take you is as a troll at this point. Demanding a review of "raiding" for example in a game that had less then 10 players in the world when I played it?? rotf. Call me a fanboy all you like. I've explained myself and I, myself, have trashed Mourning just like you plenty before I played it. But if I am a Mourning fanboy "mate".. then you are a drooling, scoffing, troll. Enuf said there.
... Also since there are some important aspects of the game that did not get reviewed fairly, I will provide a more complete review of Mourning in one to two weeks from now after I have had more then 2.5 hours to play it.
- Zaxx
Nice review, not going to buy it though, but i still feel it should b possible 4 a gamer to post a review without being flamed 4 it like that.
Shows a bit o courage to post this after all the bad things said about the game. Keep it up
Now how about a pint in the sun and we all being friends.. ( i wish alot )
"Who am I to blow against the wind?"
Wow this review has been truely hypnotizing in terms of greater aspect of what was put out there. Im not quite sure what to think of it but if the games truth lies within 50-70 hours of play and yet your substantial claims are 2-4 hours of play , the accuracy of that of which you depict is quite uncondesending in terms of the greater aspect ratio of hours to experience. In truth if only less than 10% of the context of the game of which you played was scored abode a 78% mark it would unevenly match the greater content and the long lastibilty of the greater half of the game being unscathumed and undecipherd. If the truth of the matter is in which you did only connect less than 3 hours of actaul context of gameplay it would not equal up to the greater half of the game thus being inaccurate in terms of the overall score of your review and greater aspect of which you dipict the game. If in truth you spent over 60 hours of actaul content covering which in relation would be most of the game the review you in qouta write up would actually have a stable and honest affect of the actual game. So in the truth of the matter this review has no real bearing of the actaul game and what is really going to be delivered when you spend your 20$ of this dismissive sorry excuse of a game that plays like its in the early state of aplha.
Nooblet, you are indeed correct in your diagnosis of my review.
My overall rating of the game is very likely to change with 50-60 hours of gameplay.
It could go down, as you suggest. Or possibly go up. Again, I will provide a much more detailed review in about 2 weeks - after I have atleast 60 hours in the game.
I will say that as of this moment, I now have over 6 hours in game time, more then double that of which I had when I wrote the review. (Honestly I never thought for a second yesterday that I'd put anywhere near this much time in the game, but at this point completing a 60 hour trial to review this game should be fun, so I have no problems with it)
I will not comment on my additional findings in the additional time I've had in game yet. I will wait until I can provide a bigger, broader, and at the same time more detailed review of this game I would personally consider the "Black Sheep" of all mmo's ever produced. Heh.
- Zaxx