no ATITD (a tale in the desert?), research fail. There are no stores. There are no drops. You make everything. You start with collecting wood, slate, mud, sand and grass and go from there. To blacksmith a top quality hatchet, you need to literally pound a piece of metal into the right shape. Atitd has many problems but nothing beats its crafting.
SWG Pre-CU's crafting blows the rest on the list away. The unique resources and their stats played a major role. From resource gathering to factory runs, SWG had quite an innovative and complex system. To be honest, the NGE version of SWG's crafting may be watered down and marginalized by the shift of the game to a loot based economy, SWG still has the best crafting.
Mortal Online has one of the best crafting systems in MMOs - no recipies, skill and lore based levels of quality, with the result based on the materials (and amounts of materials) used.
Combine that with the fact that almost every item in the game is crafted, and MO has one of the most worthwhile crafting systems available.
Originally posted by Kazara SWG Pre-CU's crafting blows the rest on the list away. The unique resources and their stats played a major role. From resource gathering to factory runs, SWG had quite an innovative and complex system. To be honest, the NGE version of SWG's crafting may be watered down and marginalized by the shift of the game to a loot based economy, SWG still has the best crafting.
Absolutely true. There has never been such a dynamic and ever-changing resource system comparable to that of pre-NGE SWG. I really don't know why nobody ever made something like that. Almost every MMO has a terribly static and uninspired resource table.
I agree with the #1. SWG had the best crafting system I have ever tampered with.
The downside is that it took too much time to be on top of all the resources that spawned/despawned across all planets, and it require an extensive knowledge of how the inners worked to get that +1% that could make YOUR item better than others.
If Earthrise had already released, it'd be right up there on that list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The pen is mightier than the sword, and authority is mightier than the pen, but the sword is mightier than authority.
If you can't beat 'em, hold 'em off 'till you come up with a better plan.
All true... but one thing needs to be of note... The crafting system of SWG today is THE SAME as it was 7 years ago. Its more geared the way you descibed today then in the past. For instance... back in the day crafters were less dependant on other crafters then they are now.
Absolutely NOT, not even close! SOE has made large changes in the SWG crafting systems, namely removing deterioration from equipment. They have also added significant enhancement of equipment to the menu. Don't make ridiculous comments on this forum unless you are aware of what you are talking about.
Good list by the way although I found the EQII crafting to be overly complex and not fun. Ryzom and Istaria also have decent ones. Funny the most fun I have had crafting was UO. My equipment was always in high demand there.
All true... but one thing needs to be of note... The crafting system of SWG today is THE SAME as it was 7 years ago. Its more geared the way you descibed today then in the past. For instance... back in the day crafters were less dependant on other crafters then they are now.
Absolutely NOT, not even close! SOE has made large changes in the SWG crafting systems, namely removing deterioration from equipment. They have also added significant enhancement of equipment to the menu. Don't make ridiculous comments on this forum unless you are aware of what you are talking about.
Good list by the way although I found the EQII crafting to be overly complex and not fun. Ryzom and Istaria also have decent ones. Funny the most fun I have had crafting was UO. My equipment was always in high demand there.
The core foundation of SWG's crafting system is the same. Resource spawns/shifts/random stats, experimentation during crafting, factory schematics...those basic componets are the same.
Yes there have been changes to match the updates in the combat systems and overall game systems. You mention, specifically, the loss of durability as part of the crafting process. When they took item decay out of the game, the durability line became useless so it was removed.
Ryzom -- by far the bvest. You can be killed just by harvesting, and there are no recipes.
Vanguard -- good mini-game and skill progression
PoTBS -- not impressed. No skill involved, no exploration and gathering.
Perpetuum -- like Eve, it is good.
Having only played Fallen Earth from the list you gave, you really blwe this one! I agree with the poster above: Ryzom has the best crafting I have seen yet! While it is very difficult to be able to harvest mats that are good enough to craft items that are appropriate to your fighting skills, as primarily a harvester and crafter second [fighting skills were 100 points lower!] I could get enough materials to trade/sell for mats of the quality and level that I wanted. Horizons crafting was ok, but having crafting classes instead of fully open skills like Ryzom, puts it at number 2 at best, more likely number 3 behind Fallen Earth.
1. The problem with NGE is that they (still?) removed durability for the items, so as a crafter you could not make a living.
2. Given, the system on it's own IS the best of all time, and they atleast did not change that (only that you can no longer choose the things you want)
3. Just sad that they destroyed a great game and made a wannabe WoW clone (not that I don't play WoW, but I stopped playing SWG when they destroyeed it with NGE)
1. Agree that it's a shame they removed durabillity, but you are mistaken that crafters can not make a living, cause that's pure based on how some might play it, while it has been several years for me butpeople where saying the same thing in 2007 which was the time I returned for 8 months and saw from own experiance that as a crafter you could make a great living in SWG, but it all had to do with the effort put into it, as today's generation lacks the patience to put some effort into play (obviously not everyone) but vet. players of SWG have also proven to lack the patience to once more get into the game. My shops had many npc merchants, but the thing that made me different was that everyone from every lvl could shop at my store, where others when reaching cap lvl for some reason stopped making products for lower lvl's and it was excactly those type of cap lvl crafters that complained about the lack of business, while my business was triving very VERY well.
2. Agree
3. I stopped a few months after the NGE cause I was mainly a full crafter, and at the time when the NGE hit the only things I could sell where houses or bountyhunter droids, but I was glad to have returned in 2007 for those 8 months (only 8 months cause I had to put to much time into rl) and saw allot of the game had improved, but even then we saw the influx of pre-nge vets who simply did not want to give the game another change cause for some reason they expected the same type of play we had during pre-cu, we even saw topics where people stated that none of their old friends list would light up and they didn't see any crafters or so spamming their goods all around Coronet, which made me believe that those people for some reason totaly ignored that they stepped into a changed game.
Overall in regards to the craft list I felt Vangaurd was stated abit wrong cause how could we gather resources without the ol'exploring routine?
And can't say much about EQ cause that game never atracted me thought I did try it a few times back then and last week downloaded EQ2Extended but haven't really touched it much so far.
I'm quite surprised that you didn't mention Horizons(now Istaria). It has one of the most detailed crafting systems I've seen in a long time. In fact, it would be fair that its a crafting game, around which they added some other MMO elements. ^^ But SWG pre NGE would be a good choice for number one.
You Missed one the Best Craft Systems.. HORIZONS.. Empires of Istaria.. No other Craft System can Compare to that MMO.. http://www.istaria.com/ ... it's too bad they Nerfed the Whole Combat System..
1. Craft the House & LandScape around you..
2. The Fact you could change the Empire with your Crafting..
3. Effectiveness of this system hauled in 1000's of Craft Addicts..
Items could have different stats and could be unique
Item decay
There was no Auction House/World Market - You had to search individuals stores
In PotBS you crafted cargo for larger things similar to EVE's planetary interaction. Cargo systems are really different from systems like SWG's individual item system and maybe should not be directly compared to each other?
* I read most of what Jon Wood writes * He needs more bullet points though
Haven't posted on this site in ages due to reality, but here goes:
It would be cool to know what criteria the OP used to judge which game has good crafting and which game does not. Is it ease of making a crafter? Is it lack of monotony, is it being able to affect the outcome of the items you make, relevance of tradeskills in the game, what role it has in the game's economy?
I haven't played PotBS or Darkfall Online so can't discuss their relevance on this list.
I'll play a bit of devil's advocat here, namely with Fallen Earth. If you add FE to this list, why not add WoW, why not add LotRO? Let me explain before anyone flames me. Ok, so you can make tons of useful things, that's great, but how is the crafting and resource gathering *really that different* from WoW's or LotRO's in their mechanics? Looking at harvesting, in WoW or LotRO, you do it through randomly-appearing resource nodes that you click on once to harvest a resource. Same thing in FE, you click on a resource node once, you get a resource from it. In WoW and LotRO, you can use your resources and any other materials to pop out one item, same with FE. The only tangible difference I can see is that you can produce things while offline or while fiddly farting around somewhere in the game, but the downside is that each item takes longer to 'bake' as it were than in either WoW or LotRO. There is no other way to get resources easily without going through what I like to call 'the harvest grind' to get them.
A big issue that makes me not want to see FE anywhere near that list is that any crafting character can craft anything since there is no limit to how many tradeskills you can skill up. The only limitation one seems to have is inventory and bank space. If anyone can be a crafter and can make anything, and your game economy is based on what items players make, you're going to end up with a sluggish one at best.
I agree with the rest, though I think the OP only touched the tip of the iceberg for EvE's complexity. Most of EvE is about resources and fighting over them, or fighting over blueprints. Then there is the optimization aspect in order to make the most ISK out of time spent inventing or manufacturing.
I am surprised though that there was no mention of UO's or ATitD's as many on here have already said. And then there is also DAoC's which I think should be mentioned not due to the superfun aspect of crafting (it wasn't fun in the slightest), but because of spellcrafting. It was one of the few games that allowed people to customize their gear according to their playstyle. Spellcrafted gear is still integral to every level 50's template, even to this day.
For swg I don't understand why the reviewer puts PRe-NGE since the swg crafting system is still unique to this day... Apparently the person never played past pre-nge or they would know the swg system is still a very unique crafting system.
Haven't played all of the games, but played enough of them to have an opinioin. I would move Vanguard closer to number one and I would move Darkfall last ( I would actually move it off the list) While I love Darkfall and played it for the better part of a year, its crafting system was relatively shallow IMO.
Comments
no ATITD (a tale in the desert?), research fail. There are no stores. There are no drops. You make everything. You start with collecting wood, slate, mud, sand and grass and go from there. To blacksmith a top quality hatchet, you need to literally pound a piece of metal into the right shape. Atitd has many problems but nothing beats its crafting.
I started LOL when I saw Darkfall on the list.... It is dull as hell and even the active players gripe how plain and boring it is...
SWG Pre-CU's crafting blows the rest on the list away. The unique resources and their stats played a major role. From resource gathering to factory runs, SWG had quite an innovative and complex system. To be honest, the NGE version of SWG's crafting may be watered down and marginalized by the shift of the game to a loot based economy, SWG still has the best crafting.
Mortal Online has one of the best crafting systems in MMOs - no recipies, skill and lore based levels of quality, with the result based on the materials (and amounts of materials) used.
Combine that with the fact that almost every item in the game is crafted, and MO has one of the most worthwhile crafting systems available.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Agreed, nobody has ever come close.
If they would have fixed what they had instead of making NGE that game would be well on it's way to greatness.
The way the crafting and market synced up , it was MAGIC!
I also agree that is a SCAR, so does the wife. [she says] " IT'S A DEEP DEEP SCAR!!! "
Absolutely true. There has never been such a dynamic and ever-changing resource system comparable to that of pre-NGE SWG. I really don't know why nobody ever made something like that. Almost every MMO has a terribly static and uninspired resource table.
I agree with the #1. SWG had the best crafting system I have ever tampered with.
The downside is that it took too much time to be on top of all the resources that spawned/despawned across all planets, and it require an extensive knowledge of how the inners worked to get that +1% that could make YOUR item better than others.
A whole game on its own, for sure.
If Earthrise had already released, it'd be right up there on that list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pen is mightier than the sword, and authority is mightier than the pen, but the sword is mightier than authority.
If you can't beat 'em, hold 'em off 'till you come up with a better plan.
Absolutely NOT, not even close! SOE has made large changes in the SWG crafting systems, namely removing deterioration from equipment. They have also added significant enhancement of equipment to the menu. Don't make ridiculous comments on this forum unless you are aware of what you are talking about.
Good list by the way although I found the EQII crafting to be overly complex and not fun. Ryzom and Istaria also have decent ones. Funny the most fun I have had crafting was UO. My equipment was always in high demand there.
Nice list. Eve would have been farther up and Wurm/ATitD would have knocked EQ2/Vanguard out.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
Ultima Online would have been my first.
The core foundation of SWG's crafting system is the same. Resource spawns/shifts/random stats, experimentation during crafting, factory schematics...those basic componets are the same.
Yes there have been changes to match the updates in the combat systems and overall game systems. You mention, specifically, the loss of durability as part of the crafting process. When they took item decay out of the game, the durability line became useless so it was removed.
Having only played Fallen Earth from the list you gave, you really blwe this one! I agree with the poster above: Ryzom has the best crafting I have seen yet! While it is very difficult to be able to harvest mats that are good enough to craft items that are appropriate to your fighting skills, as primarily a harvester and crafter second [fighting skills were 100 points lower!] I could get enough materials to trade/sell for mats of the quality and level that I wanted. Horizons crafting was ok, but having crafting classes instead of fully open skills like Ryzom, puts it at number 2 at best, more likely number 3 behind Fallen Earth.
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Perhaps the author should've polled the community first before doing this article?
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
1. Agree that it's a shame they removed durabillity, but you are mistaken that crafters can not make a living, cause that's pure based on how some might play it, while it has been several years for me butpeople where saying the same thing in 2007 which was the time I returned for 8 months and saw from own experiance that as a crafter you could make a great living in SWG, but it all had to do with the effort put into it, as today's generation lacks the patience to put some effort into play (obviously not everyone) but vet. players of SWG have also proven to lack the patience to once more get into the game. My shops had many npc merchants, but the thing that made me different was that everyone from every lvl could shop at my store, where others when reaching cap lvl for some reason stopped making products for lower lvl's and it was excactly those type of cap lvl crafters that complained about the lack of business, while my business was triving very VERY well.
2. Agree
3. I stopped a few months after the NGE cause I was mainly a full crafter, and at the time when the NGE hit the only things I could sell where houses or bountyhunter droids, but I was glad to have returned in 2007 for those 8 months (only 8 months cause I had to put to much time into rl) and saw allot of the game had improved, but even then we saw the influx of pre-nge vets who simply did not want to give the game another change cause for some reason they expected the same type of play we had during pre-cu, we even saw topics where people stated that none of their old friends list would light up and they didn't see any crafters or so spamming their goods all around Coronet, which made me believe that those people for some reason totaly ignored that they stepped into a changed game.
Overall in regards to the craft list I felt Vangaurd was stated abit wrong cause how could we gather resources without the ol'exploring routine?
And can't say much about EQ cause that game never atracted me thought I did try it a few times back then and last week downloaded EQ2Extended but haven't really touched it much so far.
I agree with these choices and await another MMO to have the SWG crafting experience. Just the best crafting in any MMO period.
I'm quite surprised that you didn't mention Horizons(now Istaria). It has one of the most detailed crafting systems I've seen in a long time. In fact, it would be fair that its a crafting game, around which they added some other MMO elements. ^^ But SWG pre NGE would be a good choice for number one.
You Missed one the Best Craft Systems.. HORIZONS.. Empires of Istaria.. No other Craft System can Compare to that MMO.. http://www.istaria.com/ ... it's too bad they Nerfed the Whole Combat System..
1. Craft the House & LandScape around you..
2. The Fact you could change the Empire with your Crafting..
3. Effectiveness of this system hauled in 1000's of Craft Addicts..
SWG was great because
Items could have different stats and could be unique
Item decay
There was no Auction House/World Market - You had to search individuals stores
In PotBS you crafted cargo for larger things similar to EVE's planetary interaction. Cargo systems are really different from systems like SWG's individual item system and maybe should not be directly compared to each other?
* I read most of what Jon Wood writes
* He needs more bullet points though
Fully agree that Ryzom really should of got a mention.
It's actually rather close in a lot of ways to Pre-NGE SWG.
You don't think there's anything amiss? I'm sat here wearing a red and white gingham dress, and army boots, you think that's un-amiss?
Haven't posted on this site in ages due to reality, but here goes:
It would be cool to know what criteria the OP used to judge which game has good crafting and which game does not. Is it ease of making a crafter? Is it lack of monotony, is it being able to affect the outcome of the items you make, relevance of tradeskills in the game, what role it has in the game's economy?
I haven't played PotBS or Darkfall Online so can't discuss their relevance on this list.
I'll play a bit of devil's advocat here, namely with Fallen Earth. If you add FE to this list, why not add WoW, why not add LotRO? Let me explain before anyone flames me. Ok, so you can make tons of useful things, that's great, but how is the crafting and resource gathering *really that different* from WoW's or LotRO's in their mechanics? Looking at harvesting, in WoW or LotRO, you do it through randomly-appearing resource nodes that you click on once to harvest a resource. Same thing in FE, you click on a resource node once, you get a resource from it. In WoW and LotRO, you can use your resources and any other materials to pop out one item, same with FE. The only tangible difference I can see is that you can produce things while offline or while fiddly farting around somewhere in the game, but the downside is that each item takes longer to 'bake' as it were than in either WoW or LotRO. There is no other way to get resources easily without going through what I like to call 'the harvest grind' to get them.
A big issue that makes me not want to see FE anywhere near that list is that any crafting character can craft anything since there is no limit to how many tradeskills you can skill up. The only limitation one seems to have is inventory and bank space. If anyone can be a crafter and can make anything, and your game economy is based on what items players make, you're going to end up with a sluggish one at best.
I agree with the rest, though I think the OP only touched the tip of the iceberg for EvE's complexity. Most of EvE is about resources and fighting over them, or fighting over blueprints. Then there is the optimization aspect in order to make the most ISK out of time spent inventing or manufacturing.
I am surprised though that there was no mention of UO's or ATitD's as many on here have already said. And then there is also DAoC's which I think should be mentioned not due to the superfun aspect of crafting (it wasn't fun in the slightest), but because of spellcrafting. It was one of the few games that allowed people to customize their gear according to their playstyle. Spellcrafted gear is still integral to every level 50's template, even to this day.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
For swg I don't understand why the reviewer puts PRe-NGE since the swg crafting system is still unique to this day... Apparently the person never played past pre-nge or they would know the swg system is still a very unique crafting system.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I like the list, but your rankings are a little off. Why Vanguard is not closer to #1, if not #1, is a little mind boggling.
Haven't played all of the games, but played enough of them to have an opinioin. I would move Vanguard closer to number one and I would move Darkfall last ( I would actually move it off the list) While I love Darkfall and played it for the better part of a year, its crafting system was relatively shallow IMO.
I self identify as a monkey.
Istaria had the best crafting of the games I´ve ever played!