Plan ahead, get a mount, take a boat and afk while having dinner, or pick a place where you won't have to travel much. Just be accountable for your actions.
Man, I remember spending an entire day in real life getting from Faydwer to the Erudite Capital. Zones were obsurdly large. Zone times didn't help either. And the boat rides. Riding a boat for 20 minutes just to get to a barge to get on another 20 minute boat rid, not including waiting for the boats haha. As annoying as it was, that was srsly the best MMO expierence ever.
Quoted for Truth.
I have said it many times; modern MMOs lack immersion, but abound with accessibility.
Unfortunately, that old saying is true... You can never really go home again.
That's because newer MMOs aren't trying to be immersive virtual worlds. They're just games. Instant gratification games with the semblance of multiplayer to justify the monthly fee.
Never a truer word said..... No immersion longevity or fun in most of the MMOs these days. Insta endgame...... and that is not an MMORPG
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Plan ahead, get a mount, take a boat and afk while having dinner, or pick a place where you won't have to travel much. Just be accountable for your actions.
How about just faster boat ride?
I know alot of people like that 20 minutes boat ride. But are you that sure you are the majority?
When I'm playing fallen earth there was no fast travel. And almost everyone demand it. I'm sure there are a few that enjoy riding on their car for 1 hour just to travel from place to place. But I'm not sure that's the majority.
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
Why is it you people always take it to extremes? There was never a game that required you spend 40 minutes afking on a boat. There was A SINGLE game that had ONE 20 minute boat ride that you took to get from one landmass to another. Considering each landmass had a massive amount of content, it wasn't an every day affair. EverQuest was NOT THE ONLY MMORPG EVER MADE BEFORE WOW. Jesus christ.
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
That's because newer MMOs aren't trying to be immersive virtual worlds. They're just games. Instant gratification games with the semblance of multiplayer to justify the monthly fee.
... that reminds me of talking with a friend, where I suggested that the ultimate streamlining of MMO design would be you standing in a small (Somewhere between closet and apartment bedroom) room next to a button and a guy behind a stall. When you press the button, a monster drops out of the ceiling, you kill it. (Possibly to the accompaniment of a quick text blurb for some RPG flavor. 'You are quested to destroy this rat, which has been eating grain from the local orphanage') Then you loot the rat, turn 90 degrees to the right, sell whatever you got to the guy behind the booth, and if you can afford it, buy better equipment.
Rinse and repeat.
You're close. The ultimate streamlined MMO already exists.
Real Content, a WORLD to explore, Consiquences to action or lack of action, involved planning, a need for group members with different skills, content for all lvls of play, not just end game, but a real desire to get to end game that comes from 18 months of intense play just to reach top lvl (not 2 weaks), SENSE OF ADVENTURE please.
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
While i enjoyed the same exact experience 7 years ago in FFXI, i simply can't force myself to do it anymore. Lets also not forget the playerbase was thinned out back then and chances were more like minded individuals were easier to run into.
I think mounts are the answer. Teleporting is too quick, but having mounts in large worlds immerses you. And when you aren't immersed enough, so, to say, like World of Warcraft because the areas are too small, the solution is simple: stop using the mount.
I disagree. I've always found mounts to be immersion breaking, in every game other than FFXI. You can start and stop movement on a dime and turn just as easily, even though you're traveling much faster than a human being runs. Since the purpose is ease of travel, there's never any effort put into having them accelerate and decelerate gradually or requiring them to stick to roads. Furthermore, aren't they usually summoned out of nowhere?
I make an exception for FFXI because (at least initially) the chocobos worked exactly the same way that chocobos worked in the console games. You rent one from a stable, ride it to your destination, and then it runs back to the stable when you dismount. That makes me feel like I'm in a Final Fantasy world. Having a sabertooth tiger materialize under me in a puff of smoke whenever I want to run a little faster doesn't make me feel like I'm in any kind of fantasy world.
And I've never bought the excuse that you should just not use the features that you don't like. I've heard people suggest, for example, that if you want to play a hardcore game with permadeath, you should just delete your own character everytime you die while everyone else in the game plays the normal way. It's nowhere near an acceptable substitute for being constrained by the actual rules and laws of the game.
It's pretty obvious some see travel as a timesink, some see it as part of the fun. IMO Vanguard was a great balance. You didn't need to portal often while levelling and mounts were a worthwhile goal to work towards. Exploration while levelling is a rewardable playstyle in large games. Then at endgame, you would need to port a lot to keep up with your guild. You will have done with exploration and have changed game play to just raiding.
It's pretty obvious some see travel as a timesink, some see it as part of the fun. IMO Vanguard was a great balance. You didn't need to portal often while levelling and mounts were a worthwhile goal to work towards. Exploration while levelling is a rewardable playstyle in large games. Then at endgame, you would need to port a lot to keep up with your guild. You will have done with exploration and have changed game play to just raiding.
A failed game is not a good example of anything. There was a reason they added rifts everywhere regardless if parts of the playerbase was unhappy with them. The world was just too big preventing you from grouping with friends in a timely manner.
I remeber it took me 2 hours 40 minutes by foot from south end to the north endin WOW. The logest flight time was 28 minutes at that time.
In Lotro or AOC, the map were vertical depth, it took some time by mount because the road was actually in curve shape to make it longer time, for a 3 minutes run but they all tried to make it to 30 minutes.
Why is it you people always take it to extremes? There was never a game that required you spend 40 minutes afking on a boat. There was A SINGLE game that had ONE 20 minute boat ride that you took to get from one landmass to another. Considering each landmass had a massive amount of content, it wasn't an every day affair. EverQuest was NOT THE ONLY MMORPG EVER MADE BEFORE WOW. Jesus christ.
Well, I do remember that getting to the island in Lineage took you one half hour unless you were really lucky, waiting for the boat was the worst part, not AFKing on it.
Spending that time on a boat was like watching paint dry. Travelling on foot or horse in a world full of players and monsters can actually be pretty fun but travelling by boat is only fun if I steer it myself or if pirates or something attacks.
You could of course add a minigame or 2 to play on the boat but I don't see my ranger playing shuffleboard anyways.
If you want to add traveltime you must make travelling interesting.
Make travelling an adventure in itself instead of a boring grind and you actually might make a winner.
In P&P the players often rent themselves out as caravan guards, used rightly that could be a good way to earn some money and have fun while you travel.
Random quests (or happenings) when you pass the road works fine as well.
Be creative, entertain me while still showing me how big the world is or I might as well auto map like in Guildwars.
Make weird weather, make me loose the map (Blair witch anyone? Let the player randomly loose access to mapping until he can get a new from a merchant). Make me meet vandering merchants, let a circus camp by the road and perform, make a bunch of thieves dressed as merchants try to con me out of of money...
Make it fun and people will want to travel. While it at times were fun in the old games you are forgetting the boring times with auto run in a straight line without meeting anyone else.
I'm one of the players that like big worlds. I also don't mind long travel times. On the contrary, I believe travel time is an important strategical element, especially in a PvP/RvR game.
Sadly I don't think we'll see this feature again however, lots of players in the genre are interested to achieve as much as they can (be it levels, gear or whatever there is to achieve in a game) or want to jump into the instant killing action as fast as they can.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
Yeah you do make interesting/compelling decisions actually. They all matter. If you don't respect mobs in heroics (by utilizing skillful play exactly like you outlined about EQ), you wipe. If your teammates don't know how to play, you wipe. (at least for another month til people regularly outgear them so much it doesn't matter.) If you don't play well throughout every second of a LoL game, you lose. Decisions matter.
And decisions matter without requiring absurd amounts of downtime, AFKing, and boredom.
So please, enough wall-of-text nostalgia'ing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
Yeah you do make interesting/compelling decisions actually. They all matter. If you don't respect mobs in heroics (by utilizing skillful play exactly like you outlined about EQ), you wipe. If your teammates don't know how to play, you wipe. (at least for another month til people regularly outgear them so much it doesn't matter.) If you don't play well throughout every second of a LoL game, you lose. Decisions matter.
And decisions matter without requiring absurd amounts of downtime, AFKing, and boredom.
So please, enough wall-of-text nostalgia'ing.
Surprisingly, and tho it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Axe here. Although only to an extent.
But even in a Sandbox game, I'm not sure that having large downtimes is always a good idea. Yet, I do see some good from it in the case of travel. But not constantly.
In my ideal Sandbox game, there'd be teleportations and fast travel options. But only once the path has been blazed.
I like UO's teleport/gate runes. Once you got to a spot, you could magically "mark" a rune stone, and from that point forwards you could individually "recall" to that spot from anywhere, or open a "Gate" using more powerful magic that lasted about 30 seconds and anyone could use. This seems like a good system to me. So exploration would be required first, then it was up to sharing, trading, etc., to pass around such rune stones. Or do it yourself.
Also, in my fictional ideal Sandbox, where players could build cities, they should also be able to set up caravan and shipping routes. With these, I'd want players to be able to "book passage", and log out and let the travel happen in real time, logging in at the destination, once the caravan or ship arrived. Or on board if it hasn't arrived yet. Or along the route if said caravan or ship was waylayed and destroyed, with special circumstances for "rescue" that the player doesn't have to be logged in for (maybe). Of course, they could always stay in the game and travel along if they chose to, even dropping off anywhere along the route if they wanted.
And they should also be able to build permanent gates to fixed locations in their cities. At a very high cost to build, and to maintain as well.
It's pretty obvious some see travel as a timesink, some see it as part of the fun. IMO Vanguard was a great balance. You didn't need to portal often while levelling and mounts were a worthwhile goal to work towards. Exploration while levelling is a rewardable playstyle in large games. Then at endgame, you would need to port a lot to keep up with your guild. You will have done with exploration and have changed game play to just raiding.
A failed game is not a good example of anything. There was a reason they added rifts everywhere regardless if parts of the playerbase was unhappy with them. The world was just too big preventing you from grouping with friends in a timely manner.
A game I played and enjoyed for a few years is a good example of a game I played and enjoyed for a few years.
It's pretty obvious some see travel as a timesink, some see it as part of the fun. IMO Vanguard was a great balance. You didn't need to portal often while levelling and mounts were a worthwhile goal to work towards. Exploration while levelling is a rewardable playstyle in large games. Then at endgame, you would need to port a lot to keep up with your guild. You will have done with exploration and have changed game play to just raiding.
A failed game is not a good example of anything. There was a reason they added rifts everywhere regardless if parts of the playerbase was unhappy with them. The world was just too big preventing you from grouping with friends in a timely manner.
A game I played and enjoyed for a few years is a good example of a game I played and enjoyed for a few years.
Agreed but the world doesn't center around you fortunally. Whatever a game did best, in your opinion is not really a good guidebook to how a game should be
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
Yeah you do make interesting/compelling decisions actually. They all matter. If you don't respect mobs in heroics (by utilizing skillful play exactly like you outlined about EQ), you wipe. If your teammates don't know how to play, you wipe. (at least for another month til people regularly outgear them so much it doesn't matter.) If you don't play well throughout every second of a LoL game, you lose. Decisions matter.
And decisions matter without requiring absurd amounts of downtime, AFKing, and boredom.
So please, enough wall-of-text nostalgia'ing.
Surprisingly, and tho it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Axe here. Although only to an extent.
But even in a Sandbox game, I'm not sure that having large downtimes is always a good idea. Yet, I do see some good from it in the case of travel. But not constantly.
In my ideal Sandbox game, there'd be teleportations and fast travel options. But only once the path has been blazed.
I like UO's teleport/gate runes. Once you got to a spot, you could magically "mark" a rune stone, and from that point forwards you could individually "recall" to that spot from anywhere, or open a "Gate" using more powerful magic that lasted about 30 seconds and anyone could use. This seems like a good system to me. So exploration would be required first, then it was up to sharing, trading, etc., to pass around such rune stones. Or do it yourself.
Also, in my fictional ideal Sandbox, where players could build cities, they should also be able to set up caravan and shipping routes. With these, I'd want players to be able to "book passage", and log out and let the travel happen in real time, logging in at the destination, once the caravan or ship arrived. Or on board if it hasn't arrived yet. Or along the route if said caravan or ship was waylayed and destroyed, with special circumstances for "rescue" that the player doesn't have to be logged in for (maybe). Of course, they could always stay in the game and travel along if they chose to, even dropping off anywhere along the route if they wanted.
And they should also be able to build permanent gates to fixed locations in their cities. At a very high cost to build, and to maintain as well.
-to axe also... i guarantee wow is nothing close to the level of skill you need as in eq... trust me i know.. you may think heroics in Cata are hard and you need a group of skillful players but you dont... i healed them in pugs on my holy pally... before and after the ninja nerf... and i saw a post somewhere that they are making them easier... so please dont tell me if ur team doesnt know how to play you die... they are just hard to what you did in Wotlk for two years... i stll see groups run in and pull everything and live... as far as not having time... you have time.. like i read in another post " people just think they dont have time to do the boat runs or cross continent runs anymore cuz of the way the industry took it... if your not getting a reward for running or not grinding quests in one area for 5 levels its not fun.." BTW there were fast travel ways in EQ... they were called druids and wizards and they had certain "rings" around the world that they could port to... they required involvement in the world and actually talking to people to find one tho... i just recently realized why i hated wow so much... i was paying $15/month for a mmorpg that i never hardly socialized to anyone in while leveling.... and I'm the type of guy to go out and find a group... i played wow back in the day when u didnt have dungeon finder and cross server grouping... you had what ya had for ZF in gadget... there were no quests outside of dungeons that really required a group... thats not fun... but people are zombiefied in this genre... and in LoL it doesnt take too much skill... you wait to someone leaves their turret kill them when their low and you cut off their money growth... usually by level 12 you can make it into their base if your team has been killing them off... im level 15 and out of the 100's of games ive played easily 97% of them turn into your whole team vs. their whole team in one lane... to each his own tho in what he thinks is hard...
I just realised today when I logged into Everquest today after being gone for so long that the games I have been playing recently have really small worlds. I was running in Commonlands and there seemed no end in sight for me as I ran and ran. Pity how worlds have shrunk . Even with the loading please wait they made a huge world or perhaps because of it.
Well, an aspect of having an insanely large world with huge HUGE zones, and lots of zones. Is that, some areas had smaller ones that you could do a lot of game play. There are littlealy different parts of the world it would be as if Outlands and Northrend in WoW each had multiple zones with bigger towns, starteing areas, zones raging from 1-30 or up to 1-50. and you could choose to be in mainland and stay there. I spent most my time in the Kelethin area.
These days almost all people dont wanne spent to long on travel it must all be instant travel fast faster fastest.
No patience no big worlds no waste time no immersion just give me my uber items fast with no sweat thats what todays gamers want young or older or even old ones times have chanced im affraid.
Im still stuck in ac1 in my memory but todays games dont bring me back home:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
-to axe also... i guarantee wow is nothing close to the level of skill you need as in eq... trust me i know.. you may think heroics in Cata are hard and you need a group of skillful players but you dont... i healed them in pugs on my holy pally... before and after the ninja nerf... and i saw a post somewhere that they are making them easier... so please dont tell me if ur team doesnt know how to play you die... they are just hard to what you did in Wotlk for two years... i stll see groups run in and pull everything and live... as far as not having time... you have time.. like i read in another post " people just think they dont have time to do the boat runs or cross continent runs anymore cuz of the way the industry took it... if your not getting a reward for running or not grinding quests in one area for 5 levels its not fun.." BTW there were fast travel ways in EQ... they were called druids and wizards and they had certain "rings" around the world that they could port to... they required involvement in the world and actually talking to people to find one tho... i just recently realized why i hated wow so much... i was paying $15/month for a mmorpg that i never hardly socialized to anyone in while leveling.... and I'm the type of guy to go out and find a group... i played wow back in the day when u didnt have dungeon finder and cross server grouping... you had what ya had for ZF in gadget... there were no quests outside of dungeons that really required a group... thats not fun... but people are zombiefied in this genre... and in LoL it doesnt take too much skill... you wait to someone leaves their turret kill them when their low and you cut off their money growth... usually by level 12 you can make it into their base if your team has been killing them off... im level 15 and out of the 100's of games ive played easily 97% of them turn into your whole team vs. their whole team in one lane... to each his own tho in what he thinks is hard...
I'm only going off my own experience in actual Cata heroics. I'm always avoiding fire/etc, interrupting, etc, but if others in my group aren't playing right too, we wipe. You can't tell me we didn't wipe, because we did. Often. In many heroic groups over the last month or so. There have been times where the random team comp made things particularly hard (only 1 real CC'er, or 1 real interrupter) in which case even the slightest mistake of the responsible player would make the dungeon completely impossible for the rest of us.
As for having time. Sure, everyone has time. But almost everyone prefers to spend their time doing fun stuff instead of boring stuff.
As for no group quests in the game world, that's just not where WOW's group content is. If you want groups, you run dungeons. If you want community, you join one (guild).
Your describing LOL that way convinces me that you really don't understand skill in games at all. The difference between a skilled/unskilled player for any given class is rather huge in that game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Plan ahead, get a mount, take a boat and afk while having dinner, or pick a place where you won't have to travel much. Just be accountable for your actions.
Never a truer word said..... No immersion longevity or fun in most of the MMOs these days. Insta endgame...... and that is not an MMORPG
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
How about just faster boat ride?
I know alot of people like that 20 minutes boat ride. But are you that sure you are the majority?
When I'm playing fallen earth there was no fast travel. And almost everyone demand it. I'm sure there are a few that enjoy riding on their car for 1 hour just to travel from place to place. But I'm not sure that's the majority.
I don't really see myself sitting down with 40 minutes of playtime and saying "I want to spend all my time afking on a boat!"
Most of the time when I play a game I'm like "I want to spend all my time engaging in compelling, interesting decision-making!"
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Why is it you people always take it to extremes? There was never a game that required you spend 40 minutes afking on a boat. There was A SINGLE game that had ONE 20 minute boat ride that you took to get from one landmass to another. Considering each landmass had a massive amount of content, it wasn't an every day affair. EverQuest was NOT THE ONLY MMORPG EVER MADE BEFORE WOW. Jesus christ.
yes because when you play a game like wow or LoL you have such compelling and interesting decision making... in Everquest you planned... you had someone that went into a camp (puller) and pull out single mobs at a time... and classes had way different skills... not just different animations that made you think you were putting a bleed effect that was different than a feral druid... and you also had to have CC... i dont mean "well you CC'ed one mob so ur okay"... no in EQ if your puller pulled another group... which happened... esp in DSP... you NEEDED a bard or enchanter to mass CC... or you wiped... because mobs had a vendetta on you to chase you across the whole zone... if you died... you had to run all the way back to your body with no gear halfway across the world if you didnt bind somewhere close all the while mobs can see you and attack you still... so you played at a better caliber than WoW... you made compelling, interesting decisions... you knew all your spells and which to use in certain situations... because you didnt want to wipe your group... in a MMORPG that made you group... im sorry for feeding the trolls but these dam kids that didnt play a real online world such as EQ need to be put in their place... and as for waiting for a boat ride for 20mins... it was worth it knowing i was gunna find a group in a zone somewhere on the other side to maybe gain a level... it was about the experience with the actual people in the game not how fast my bar goes up to hear the ding noise... wow isnt a mmorpg... they make it so you hardly group while leveling to end-game... then when you actually group with said people who have never grouped before you have people you have played end-game content who yell at them telling them they are doin everything wrong and they are not top dps so they are a "suxors n00b"
You're close. The ultimate streamlined MMO already exists.
Real Content, a WORLD to explore, Consiquences to action or lack of action, involved planning, a need for group members with different skills, content for all lvls of play, not just end game, but a real desire to get to end game that comes from 18 months of intense play just to reach top lvl (not 2 weaks), SENSE OF ADVENTURE please.
While i enjoyed the same exact experience 7 years ago in FFXI, i simply can't force myself to do it anymore. Lets also not forget the playerbase was thinned out back then and chances were more like minded individuals were easier to run into.
I disagree. I've always found mounts to be immersion breaking, in every game other than FFXI. You can start and stop movement on a dime and turn just as easily, even though you're traveling much faster than a human being runs. Since the purpose is ease of travel, there's never any effort put into having them accelerate and decelerate gradually or requiring them to stick to roads. Furthermore, aren't they usually summoned out of nowhere?
I make an exception for FFXI because (at least initially) the chocobos worked exactly the same way that chocobos worked in the console games. You rent one from a stable, ride it to your destination, and then it runs back to the stable when you dismount. That makes me feel like I'm in a Final Fantasy world. Having a sabertooth tiger materialize under me in a puff of smoke whenever I want to run a little faster doesn't make me feel like I'm in any kind of fantasy world.
And I've never bought the excuse that you should just not use the features that you don't like. I've heard people suggest, for example, that if you want to play a hardcore game with permadeath, you should just delete your own character everytime you die while everyone else in the game plays the normal way. It's nowhere near an acceptable substitute for being constrained by the actual rules and laws of the game.
The market is different today than it was back in 99'. Nobody is going to play a game with huge timesinks. It's as niche as a game mechanic can be.
It's fine wanting a huge world but unless there is some mechanic in place where groups doesn't take forever to assemble, it simply wouldn't work
It's pretty obvious some see travel as a timesink, some see it as part of the fun. IMO Vanguard was a great balance. You didn't need to portal often while levelling and mounts were a worthwhile goal to work towards. Exploration while levelling is a rewardable playstyle in large games. Then at endgame, you would need to port a lot to keep up with your guild. You will have done with exploration and have changed game play to just raiding.
A failed game is not a good example of anything. There was a reason they added rifts everywhere regardless if parts of the playerbase was unhappy with them. The world was just too big preventing you from grouping with friends in a timely manner.
I remeber it took me 2 hours 40 minutes by foot from south end to the north endin WOW. The logest flight time was 28 minutes at that time.
In Lotro or AOC, the map were vertical depth, it took some time by mount because the road was actually in curve shape to make it longer time, for a 3 minutes run but they all tried to make it to 30 minutes.
Well, I do remember that getting to the island in Lineage took you one half hour unless you were really lucky, waiting for the boat was the worst part, not AFKing on it.
Spending that time on a boat was like watching paint dry. Travelling on foot or horse in a world full of players and monsters can actually be pretty fun but travelling by boat is only fun if I steer it myself or if pirates or something attacks.
You could of course add a minigame or 2 to play on the boat but I don't see my ranger playing shuffleboard anyways.
If you want to add traveltime you must make travelling interesting.
Make travelling an adventure in itself instead of a boring grind and you actually might make a winner.
In P&P the players often rent themselves out as caravan guards, used rightly that could be a good way to earn some money and have fun while you travel.
Random quests (or happenings) when you pass the road works fine as well.
Be creative, entertain me while still showing me how big the world is or I might as well auto map like in Guildwars.
Make weird weather, make me loose the map (Blair witch anyone? Let the player randomly loose access to mapping until he can get a new from a merchant). Make me meet vandering merchants, let a circus camp by the road and perform, make a bunch of thieves dressed as merchants try to con me out of of money...
Make it fun and people will want to travel. While it at times were fun in the old games you are forgetting the boring times with auto run in a straight line without meeting anyone else.
I'm one of the players that like big worlds. I also don't mind long travel times. On the contrary, I believe travel time is an important strategical element, especially in a PvP/RvR game.
Sadly I don't think we'll see this feature again however, lots of players in the genre are interested to achieve as much as they can (be it levels, gear or whatever there is to achieve in a game) or want to jump into the instant killing action as fast as they can.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Yeah you do make interesting/compelling decisions actually. They all matter. If you don't respect mobs in heroics (by utilizing skillful play exactly like you outlined about EQ), you wipe. If your teammates don't know how to play, you wipe. (at least for another month til people regularly outgear them so much it doesn't matter.) If you don't play well throughout every second of a LoL game, you lose. Decisions matter.
And decisions matter without requiring absurd amounts of downtime, AFKing, and boredom.
So please, enough wall-of-text nostalgia'ing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Surprisingly, and tho it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Axe here. Although only to an extent.
But even in a Sandbox game, I'm not sure that having large downtimes is always a good idea. Yet, I do see some good from it in the case of travel. But not constantly.
In my ideal Sandbox game, there'd be teleportations and fast travel options. But only once the path has been blazed.
I like UO's teleport/gate runes. Once you got to a spot, you could magically "mark" a rune stone, and from that point forwards you could individually "recall" to that spot from anywhere, or open a "Gate" using more powerful magic that lasted about 30 seconds and anyone could use. This seems like a good system to me. So exploration would be required first, then it was up to sharing, trading, etc., to pass around such rune stones. Or do it yourself.
Also, in my fictional ideal Sandbox, where players could build cities, they should also be able to set up caravan and shipping routes. With these, I'd want players to be able to "book passage", and log out and let the travel happen in real time, logging in at the destination, once the caravan or ship arrived. Or on board if it hasn't arrived yet. Or along the route if said caravan or ship was waylayed and destroyed, with special circumstances for "rescue" that the player doesn't have to be logged in for (maybe). Of course, they could always stay in the game and travel along if they chose to, even dropping off anywhere along the route if they wanted.
And they should also be able to build permanent gates to fixed locations in their cities. At a very high cost to build, and to maintain as well.
Once upon a time....
A game I played and enjoyed for a few years is a good example of a game I played and enjoyed for a few years.
Agreed but the world doesn't center around you fortunally. Whatever a game did best, in your opinion is not really a good guidebook to how a game should be
-to axe also... i guarantee wow is nothing close to the level of skill you need as in eq... trust me i know.. you may think heroics in Cata are hard and you need a group of skillful players but you dont... i healed them in pugs on my holy pally... before and after the ninja nerf... and i saw a post somewhere that they are making them easier... so please dont tell me if ur team doesnt know how to play you die... they are just hard to what you did in Wotlk for two years... i stll see groups run in and pull everything and live... as far as not having time... you have time.. like i read in another post " people just think they dont have time to do the boat runs or cross continent runs anymore cuz of the way the industry took it... if your not getting a reward for running or not grinding quests in one area for 5 levels its not fun.." BTW there were fast travel ways in EQ... they were called druids and wizards and they had certain "rings" around the world that they could port to... they required involvement in the world and actually talking to people to find one tho... i just recently realized why i hated wow so much... i was paying $15/month for a mmorpg that i never hardly socialized to anyone in while leveling.... and I'm the type of guy to go out and find a group... i played wow back in the day when u didnt have dungeon finder and cross server grouping... you had what ya had for ZF in gadget... there were no quests outside of dungeons that really required a group... thats not fun... but people are zombiefied in this genre... and in LoL it doesnt take too much skill... you wait to someone leaves their turret kill them when their low and you cut off their money growth... usually by level 12 you can make it into their base if your team has been killing them off... im level 15 and out of the 100's of games ive played easily 97% of them turn into your whole team vs. their whole team in one lane... to each his own tho in what he thinks is hard...
I just realised today when I logged into Everquest today after being gone for so long that the games I have been playing recently have really small worlds. I was running in Commonlands and there seemed no end in sight for me as I ran and ran. Pity how worlds have shrunk . Even with the loading please wait they made a huge world or perhaps because of it.
Well, an aspect of having an insanely large world with huge HUGE zones, and lots of zones. Is that, some areas had smaller ones that you could do a lot of game play. There are littlealy different parts of the world it would be as if Outlands and Northrend in WoW each had multiple zones with bigger towns, starteing areas, zones raging from 1-30 or up to 1-50. and you could choose to be in mainland and stay there. I spent most my time in the Kelethin area.
These days almost all people dont wanne spent to long on travel it must all be instant travel fast faster fastest.
No patience no big worlds no waste time no immersion just give me my uber items fast with no sweat thats what todays gamers want young or older or even old ones times have chanced im affraid.
Im still stuck in ac1 in my memory but todays games dont bring me back home:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I'm only going off my own experience in actual Cata heroics. I'm always avoiding fire/etc, interrupting, etc, but if others in my group aren't playing right too, we wipe. You can't tell me we didn't wipe, because we did. Often. In many heroic groups over the last month or so. There have been times where the random team comp made things particularly hard (only 1 real CC'er, or 1 real interrupter) in which case even the slightest mistake of the responsible player would make the dungeon completely impossible for the rest of us.
As for having time. Sure, everyone has time. But almost everyone prefers to spend their time doing fun stuff instead of boring stuff.
As for no group quests in the game world, that's just not where WOW's group content is. If you want groups, you run dungeons. If you want community, you join one (guild).
Your describing LOL that way convinces me that you really don't understand skill in games at all. The difference between a skilled/unskilled player for any given class is rather huge in that game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver