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Guardians are the Taliban

KeridwenKeridwen Member UncommonPosts: 58
in Rift

oh yeah well, yet another imaginative leap and a take on the distinction between the two warring factions.

 

Based on considerable sociological insight, drawn from Max Weber, it is fair to say that Rift is mirroring a modernist versus anti modernist sentiment in its distinction between Guardians and Defiants.



so....

Guardians are the Taliban (faith in Vigil, religosity and blind belief, oh and no televisions) and Defiant are the modernist, NATO alliance (American, Europe and bits of Canada, but not those really freezing cold bits up near Nova Scotia ...brrrrr .. those bits prolly really belong to Russia anyway) .....

Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMOs.

Played:
WOW - GW - WAR - AOC - CoH/CoV - EQ2 - SWG - FFXI - DAOC - EVE - VG - L2 - RFO - DFO - DDO - LOTR

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Comments

  • xephonicsxephonics Member UncommonPosts: 672

    Might be why I felt dirty playing Guardian (but I think that is becuase they felt too Christian  crusader-ish to me)

    My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.

  • marz.at.playmarz.at.play Member UncommonPosts: 912

    In b4 lock, but aye, more of Christian Crusaders then Taliban.

    image
  • allinanallinan Member Posts: 79


    Come Mr Taliban, Taliban me bananas! Daylight come and me want' go home.

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044

    I saw it as Guardians=Organized Religion stuck in the 11th century and Defiant=Modern Science creating what the religions say God/Allah so on created.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • bastionixbastionix Member Posts: 547

    .......................

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Member UncommonPosts: 791

    Proud to be Guardian....

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Uh...

    I'm pretty sure most of you would be following a particular religion if it's gods were actively intervening to protect the world and ascending the worthy to further assist in that task.

  • allinanallinan Member Posts: 79

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Uh...

    I'm pretty sure most of you would be following a particular religion if it's gods were actively intervening to protect the world and ascending the worthy to further assist in that task.

    Bravo!  Agreed, my avatar says the heretic defiant are gonna pay in PvP.  I care not to make any ties between this game and reality.

     

    Guardians:

    The Guardians are the chosen of Telara’s gods, the Vigil. After the tyrant Aedraxis called forth power from the Plane of Death and devastated Telara, the Vigil chose the greatest souls who fell that day to be harbingers of the next era. A golden age awaits, but Telara must first be saved — by deed, by example, and by the sword. Its people must be redeemed, its corruptors purged, before the world can truly be safe.

     

    Defiant:

    The Defiant do not care whether the gods abandoned the world or not. To them, this entire planar convergence disaster is the gods' fault in the first place. Indeed, as soon as things went from bad to worse, the gods suddenly and inexplicably disappeared.

    So while the Guardians run around Telara building temples, sticking their noses in everyone's business, and desperately praying for a miracle, the Defiant plan on actually delivering one, even if it means being branded as heretics and operating outside the laws of the land.

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Uh...

    I'm pretty sure most of you would be following a particular religion if it's gods were actively intervening to protect the world and ascending the worthy to further assist in that task.

    Well now if you want to get all literal and stuff...!

    I'm sure that Trion has not intended any comparisons to the real world. This was just a thinking exercise or whatever.

    BTW you are correct, I would NEVER stand up to a real God!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • ArchidArchid Member UncommonPosts: 210

    Eww, dont want to see this game from that point of view! All that i care is the DORFS! So guardians even tho i dislike the greater power nonsence. Defiants in the otherhand looks more like taliban to me. Look at Eth, i mean... they look like some sandpeople and one thing which im wondering too is why do defiants have to be darker colored than guardians, like in general.. is it because of Aion's "good vs. evil" coloring "angels and demons" bs? :D I dunno, id stick those ideologies far away from any mmo's but hey it's easy consept to build.

    the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    Guardians = High fantasy

    Defiants = Steampunk

    Trying to correlate a fantasy fictional game world with reality is nonsense. Unless of course you can't distinguish between reality and fairy tails. If that's the case, Alice in Wonderland is much more dangerous, so beware of the evil queen.

  • ArchidArchid Member UncommonPosts: 210

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Alice in Wonderland is much more dangerous, so beware of the evil queen.

      ^ This :o

    the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...

  • TotecTotec Member Posts: 220

    What do you think Max Weber would say about an agnostic liberal who only want's to play a religiously fanatic faction so he can use words like "heretic," "blasphomy," and "crucifiction" in order to make his killing of the opposing faction all the sweeter... 

    While  this is a little extreme, I think a lot of people out there just chose a faction based off aesthetics, and race appearance. Since most people play games to escape from reality, not recreate it.  I personally think that there is going to be a strong guardian following of people who don't really care about religion, but want to have some fun using "blind faith" as justification for their actions. and there's also going to be a lot of Guardians that want to play "the pretty race"  As far as the Defiant... They have magitech, nuff said... 

    While there may be some parallels to real life, I think the aesthetics are going to overrule a factions philosophy anyday.  I believe most people are indifferent.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    WHAT?

    Ok, Miss, there are a handful fundamental errors in this thinking. Not what you may expect though.

    To make it simple: In Telara (unlike on Earth), people do not believe. Same as in every fantasy game universe, like D&D. If you are an inhabitant of worlds like Telara or Faerun or whatever, you do NOT believe. You KNOW the Gods exist. You see them acting. The Gods of Telara are not like Jehova, Allah or Odin, they are not ideas you have to blieve in because you never actually see them. In Telara, the Gods are real. You don't have to "believe" in the sense of accepting something that you never see. You KNOW the Gods exist.

    Now a Telaran knows the Gods are real. Even the Defiants don't dispute that, because it would just be silly. Now the Gods are the creators and thus owners of the world of Telara, hence by right they can do with it whatever they want. It is their RIGHT to command the mortals. Thus defying them, for whatever reason, is simply wrong. It's as if your cat or dog would want to own your house and tell you what to do. Or your minor kid.

     

    So the chain of logic is:

    a) in Telara the Gods are know to be real

    b) the Gods are the rightful onwers of the world and everything inside of it

    c) Conlusion: disobeying the Gods in hence objectively wrong = The Defiants are nothing by heretics and breakers of the law, or simply: criminals.

     

    EDIT: I had similar dislike of religion effects in my D&D group, where I am DM. The flaw of logic is the same. People carry their Earth dislike in Religion into a game, and it is just illogical. For any person in Faerun, it is just stupid to be atheist, for the Gods of Faerun are not something people can believe or not believe. The Gods of Faerun ara fact. You know they are there. You can see their doings, even if not all the time and everywhere. People there don't have the luxurity to not believe. It is not as in our world. Hence the very idea that a religious person is a blind zealot, as we see someone religious in our Earth, is an absurd connection. I understand the natural anti religious habit from our world, but in such a fantasy setting it is entirely misplaced. In a similar way as, say, the existence of kings and lords. In a medieval setting people accept aristocracy. Period. They don't have these 200+ years of modern history making them think otherwise. At least in any traditional fantasy setting like D&D. They ARE no atheists or supporters of democracy in a fantasy setting. It's called "playing a role" not "being you as socialized here in 2011's Earth".

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • Little11Little11 Member Posts: 51

    Guardians are brought back from the dead wouldnt that make them  zombies?

    We defiant will have a hard time fighting armies of taliban zombies!!

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    What makes you coming out of that pot defiant? Chicken soup?

  • BlackWatchBlackWatch Member UncommonPosts: 972

    Taliban Zombies.... interesting.  That should make it into a game. 

    A supernatural FPS game... slaying thousands of members of the Taliban.  Then... getting to blow them up again when they come back for you as zombies. 

    Nice.

    ...

    Go take more of whatever it was when you had the idea.  I sense the Force is strong with you. 

    image

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Little11

    Guardians are brought back from the dead wouldnt that make them  zombies?

    We defiant will have a hard time fighting armies of taliban zombies!!

    Actually it's the other way around. Guardians are brought back by the Gods. Thats not zombies, thats merely reincarnation, or ressurection.

    On the other hands, the Defiant torture Guardian souls in their machines to convert them and then bring them back to life with machines. If THAT isn't evil I don't know what is...

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    No, that's processed ham.

    hehe

  • xephonicsxephonics Member UncommonPosts: 672

    Originally posted by Elikal

    WHAT?

    Ok, Miss, there are a handful fundamental errors in this thinking. Not what you may expect though.

    To make it simple: In Telara (unlike on Earth), people do not believe. Same as in every fantasy game universe, like D&D. If you are an inhabitant of worlds like Telara or Faerun or whatever, you do NOT believe. You KNOW the Gods exist. You see them acting. The Gods of Telara are not like Jehova, Allah or Odin, they are not ideas you have to blieve in because you never actually see them. In Telara, the Gods are real. You don't have to "believe" in the sense of accepting something that you never see. You KNOW the Gods exist.

    Now a Telaran knows the Gods are real. Even the Defiants don't dispute that, because it would just be silly. Now the Gods are the creators and thus owners of the world of Telara, hence by right they can do with it whatever they want. It is their RIGHT to command the mortals. Thus defying them, for whatever reason, is simply wrong. It's as if your cat or dog would want to own your house and tell you what to do. Or your minor kid.

     

    So the chain of logic is:

    a) in Telara the Gods are know to be real

    b) the Gods are the rightful onwers of the world and everything inside of it

    c) Conlusion: disobeying the Gods in hence objectively wrong = The Defiants are nothing by heretics and breakers of the law, or simply: criminals.

     

    EDIT: I had similar dislike of religion effects in my D&D group, where I am DM. The flaw of logic is the same. People carry their Earth dislike in Religion into a game, and it is just illogical. For any person in Faerun, it is just stupid to be atheist, for the Gods of Faerun are not something people can believe or not believe. The Gods of Faerun ara fact. You know they are there. You can see their doings, even if not all the time and everywhere. People there don't have the luxurity to not believe. It is not as in our world. Hence the very idea that a religious person is a blind zealot, as we see someone religious in our Earth, is an absurd connection. I understand the natural anti religious habit from our world, but in such a fantasy setting it is entirely misplaced. In a similar way as, say, the existence of kings and lords. In a medieval setting people accept aristocracy. Period. They don't have these 200+ years of modern history making them think otherwise. At least in any traditional fantasy setting like D&D. They ARE no atheists or supporters of democracy in a fantasy setting. It's called "playing a role" not "being you as socialized here in 2011's Earth".

    You do not really HAVE to accept anything.  That is like saying you have no rights to speak against or be against your own government.  Same with the "Gods", sure they may have made me, but I had no choice in that, so saying then that I have to respect them is illogical.

    Free will is interesting like that :D

    My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by xephonics

    Originally posted by Elikal

    WHAT?

    Ok, Miss, there are a handful fundamental errors in this thinking. Not what you may expect though.

    To make it simple: In Telara (unlike on Earth), people do not believe. Same as in every fantasy game universe, like D&D. If you are an inhabitant of worlds like Telara or Faerun or whatever, you do NOT believe. You KNOW the Gods exist. You see them acting. The Gods of Telara are not like Jehova, Allah or Odin, they are not ideas you have to blieve in because you never actually see them. In Telara, the Gods are real. You don't have to "believe" in the sense of accepting something that you never see. You KNOW the Gods exist.

    Now a Telaran knows the Gods are real. Even the Defiants don't dispute that, because it would just be silly. Now the Gods are the creators and thus owners of the world of Telara, hence by right they can do with it whatever they want. It is their RIGHT to command the mortals. Thus defying them, for whatever reason, is simply wrong. It's as if your cat or dog would want to own your house and tell you what to do. Or your minor kid.

     

    So the chain of logic is:

    a) in Telara the Gods are know to be real

    b) the Gods are the rightful onwers of the world and everything inside of it

    c) Conlusion: disobeying the Gods in hence objectively wrong = The Defiants are nothing by heretics and breakers of the law, or simply: criminals.

     

    EDIT: I had similar dislike of religion effects in my D&D group, where I am DM. The flaw of logic is the same. People carry their Earth dislike in Religion into a game, and it is just illogical. For any person in Faerun, it is just stupid to be atheist, for the Gods of Faerun are not something people can believe or not believe. The Gods of Faerun ara fact. You know they are there. You can see their doings, even if not all the time and everywhere. People there don't have the luxurity to not believe. It is not as in our world. Hence the very idea that a religious person is a blind zealot, as we see someone religious in our Earth, is an absurd connection. I understand the natural anti religious habit from our world, but in such a fantasy setting it is entirely misplaced. In a similar way as, say, the existence of kings and lords. In a medieval setting people accept aristocracy. Period. They don't have these 200+ years of modern history making them think otherwise. At least in any traditional fantasy setting like D&D. They ARE no atheists or supporters of democracy in a fantasy setting. It's called "playing a role" not "being you as socialized here in 2011's Earth".

    You do not really HAVE to accept anything.  That is like saying you have no rights to speak against or be against your own government.  Same with the "Gods", sure they may have made me, but I had no choice in that, so saying then that I have to respect them is illogical.

    Free will is interesting like that :D

    I dispute that.

    Free will is a belief of Earth's western culture. Just transporting in into fantasy realms is... absurd. It's a faith, same as any religion. Again, don't transport earth ideologies into fantasy realms, for the same reasons I mentioned.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • xephonicsxephonics Member UncommonPosts: 672

    I can bring ideal I want honestly, as I would be the one who is doing the rp'ing.

    Your views only apply to your viewpoint on the subject, so in no way do they affect mine at all.  It is the RP of it right?  And since I'm paying to play a GAME, then I can view it however I want :D

    My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by xephonics

    I can bring ideal I want honestly, as I would be the one who is doing the rp'ing.

    Your views only apply to your viewpoint on the subject, so in no way do they affect mine at all.  It is the RP of it right?  And since I'm paying to play a GAME, then I can view it however I want :D

    Of course you can. Enjoy your game as ever you want. ^^

    I was just referring to the OP, comparing Guardians to Taliban is wrong, because measuring an ingame logic with out of game parameters is illogical.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by xephonics

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by xephonics

    I can bring ideal I want honestly, as I would be the one who is doing the rp'ing.

    Your views only apply to your viewpoint on the subject, so in no way do they affect mine at all.  It is the RP of it right?  And since I'm paying to play a GAME, then I can view it however I want :D

    Of course you can. Enjoy your game as ever you want. ^^

    I was just referring to the OP, comparing Guardians to Taliban is wrong, because measuring an ingame logic with out of game parameters is illogical.

    I get you there, I just honestly think OP was trying to spark some flame-worthy thread :P

    Really? Hm, maybe. I always take people serious. Oh my... ^^

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • sloebersloeber Member UncommonPosts: 504

    why does a gameforum needs to get political???

This discussion has been closed.