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Why do people always screw up open pvp
Gintoh
Member UncommonPosts: 329
I like open pvp or atleast the idea of it, b/c if this is a sandbox I should have the option of murdering just like in real life. Thus adding realism and options. However most developers think open pvp = giant quake deathmatch. I think in games like this there should be more risk for both sides, the victim can lose more stuff (maybe not all but they have more of a risk) whilst there are heavy penalties and risks for criminals, thus making pvp more realistic and immersive and giving more of a world feeling just just a deathmatch feeling. This game feels like the latter. Anyone can kill anyone with almost no penalties whatsoever.
I hope one day someone will get open pvp right, I think EVE got it right, but perhaps inanother game they could make it so that there is a small chance for the killer to escape, but make it very difficult unlike EVE where they just automatically get insta-gibbed.
Comments
I'm not sure I understand your point. If you think the penalties in the criminal system are not harsh enough you should bring it up with suggestions on how to make it better in the official forums. Isn't this the second thread you have made on the subject? Maybe you should consider if this game really is your type instead of just thinking it is.
Its a full loot game, why would anyone lose more than any other player, player killer or killed. Everyone will lose any non-insured non-quest gear on whatever type of death whether a criminal or not. I understand if you feel that not being allowed in certain areas and have access to certain faction teleporters doesn't feel like a big enough punishment to you. It really isn't. Complaining about it here is not going to change much though, sorry.
I was thinking that bounty hunters could go after players and if they kill them then they'll go to jail like Oblivion or FOMK but they can perhaps break out of jail. There would also perhaps be some roaming guards. And this thread is more of a general discussion on Open PVP with some discussion on ER which is why I posted it here unlike the other thread which is more about just ER.
Is it the developers or the communities? That kind of pvp tends to bring out the inner serial killer in some segments of society.
The problem with Earthrise is, that there's no consequences at all for ganking other people mindlesly... none at all actually.
You can still travel the whole world without any problems, and only the towns themselves are not acceseble anymore if you're flagged as a criminal. There's no guards running around in the adjacent zones to the towns like Masthead stated it would be.
And with 5 characters per account and able to train them all up rather fast, you don't have to fear about any content not being available to you anymore. T3-skills for example is only a question of farming mobs for two days and then you can gank hordes of n00bs around the Northern Camp or the little outpost down south there. There's no easier way of farming ressources actually then to gank these n00bs.
And after you've killed a dozen or two you simply trade all the stuff you've looted to an alt of yours and proceed as if nothing has happened.
Additionally, the criminal status fades away automatically over time, and it does this rather fast, instead of requiring you to actively do something to clear your criminal status.
We've complained about these issues for a few month in beta-forums allready and Masthead did not listen, so why should they now?
Earthrise is a mindless gankfest instead of a sandbox with consequences.
One problem I think is that you cant put enough death penalty in to make a difference. Sure, you could go extreme and make it permadeath, that would be one end of the scale. EVE is somewhere in the middle. When your ship explodes, you lose it, maybe you get some insurance money back. If you lose your pod, you reclone instantly, and have to buy new clone insurance to avoid losing skillpoints. Im not sure this is really that big of a disincentive. But what else can you add to make people afraid to die in a MMO?
-permadeath
-loss of your inventory
-loss of experience or skill points
-recovery time
-debuffs
-teleporting you away to some remote place
I would personally like to try a permadeath game where the complexity of becoming competitive wasnt so great. But the rewards for survival were really worth it. Think SWG, where you could become a Jedi, and with that came great power, but also permadeath.
The more freedom a player has, the more freedom a certain type of person has to wreck the enjoyment of a game for other players. That's just how it is. And from a player's perspective, it looks almost impossible to strike a good balance.
Earthrise is full loot pvp, there's a lot of freedom there, which is good. But it's going to attract a lot of asshats, which is bad, and as far as I can see, unavoidable. A shame, because they really do wreck games for some players, but I guess it's better to contain them in an MMO than have them out rampaging in the real world. Hopefully, none of them will take the time to ever breed!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Sad but this is mainly the reason these games become less populated with time.
If this game was actually skill based like a shooter then it would be ok but since its BP and gear based its just another gank-fest. I love the idea of how anyone 1 tier higher than you will pwn your party of lower tiers. greifers will love this concept.
BP is battle points, its the level design this game uses.
And the above issue is IMO the biggest issue, it's as gear based (almost) as you're run-of-the-mill themepark.
I think if you're going to have the kind of game that encourages massive pointless pvp, like full loot with little or no penalty, then they should make it so you can't see the other person's level, and they should dissassociate gear from stats* so people won't be able to tell what level you are by your gear either. It would be interesting to see what happens when people have no idea of the strengths of the other person they see.
Make items socketable so you can go out, shop for anykind of gear you like by how it looks, but the gear's stats would be determined by the items you socketed and other people would have no idea what you've got.
This is exactly why I loved L2 so much. The karma system they had was almost perfect for open world PvP. I think more open pvp games should follow something close to this system it would be great for all.