IMO Richard Garriot had the right idea with his last MMO Tablua Rasa but made a couple critical mistakes- leaving out pvp and leaving the earth's atmosphere shortly after launch and leaving all the work to the devs which took them a whlie to figure out what was needed to be done and by then it was far too late then issues with RG vs NCSoft turned sour and ended up closing Tablua Rasa. There's very few MMO games these days that go their own way rather than follow WoW and/or EQ's ruleset, Star Trek Online is another however I don't think it's 100% Cryptic's fault for its crappiness (Perpetual screwed it up previously).
I liked KOTOR, when playing it back then, I thought to myself, "THIS ought to be the MMORPG we should be playing", hopefully TOR will be like it minus the turn based combat system and I loved the character level up system (choose individal powers and assemble weapons). Mass Effect 1/2 are significant improvements over KOTOR"s story system which I know TOR will have.
City of Heroes and Aion are the only other MMO games I can tolorate playing right now and they did a great job of cutting down spammers and account hijackers in Aion.
I like what this game is trying to do because I have been an RPG and videogame story fan for as long as I played video games seriously. BioWare RPG's have always had a special place in that history through games like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter and Kotor (as well as DA / ME recently).
Storyline is something I have always found lacking in every MMO, 'sandbox' or 'themepark' that I have played up until now, so you'll find me a staunch supporter of that direction, even before TOR ever got announced.
That said, in the surprising event that it is shit I will not stick with it, though I might play it longer than the general public would.
What you're saying here is something I've been saying for ages as well and something you can observe time and time again from the very dawn of mass media and even much before.
But I don't think you'll find many of those who "hate" or critique this game just because it is popular ready to profess that they do, just look at the way all the WoW-hater nonsense is still persisting.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I cant say I hate/love it I am leaning tword love it though just because I love the IP. When it comes out and I have played it then I will make my choice.
Well, most everyone caught the intent of the post, some didn't...some read the first line and knee-jerk replied, completely missing the point, as is to be expected.
For those who completely missed it, the objective was simply to point out how a lot of people will ignore facts when forming an opinion about something, simply based on shallow reasons like popularity. There are some people who hate WoW (or Bieber, or Obama, or religion, or other races, etc) purely because of its status, and search for every possible tidbit that will vindicate that hatred, while completely ignoring anything positive.
I made this post because I have no doubt that there are going to be a lot of people who will do the same thing with TOR. They will search for reasons to hate it (or love it), and if they don't sit back and look at the game more subjectively, they may end up missing out on an awesome gaming experience (or waste $50+). The post was simply a plea for the side of reason and thought, in the hopes that some people will realize what they're doing, stop their crusade, and take off the blinders. Love or hate the game based purely on it's merits/flaws while being aware of both.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
Well, most everyone caught the intent of the post, some didn't...some read the first line and knee-jerk replied, completely missing the point, as is to be expected.
For those who completely missed it, the objective was simply to point out how a lot of people will ignore facts when forming an opinion about something, simply based on shallow reasons like popularity. There are some people who hate WoW (or Bieber, or Obama, or religion, or other races, etc) purely because of its status, and search for every possible tidbit that will vindicate that hatred, while completely ignoring anything positive.
I made this post because I have no doubt that there are going to be a lot of people who will do the same thing with TOR. They will search for reasons to hate it (or love it), and if they don't sit back and look at the game more subjectively, they may end up missing out on an awesome gaming experience (or waste $50+). The post was simply a plea for the side of reason and thought, in the hopes that some people will realize what they're doing, stop their crusade, and take off the blinders. Love or hate the game based purely on it's merits/flaws while being aware of both.
First off, I think you meant objectively rather than subjectively.
As to people not taking this MMO at face value and just judging it on its properties as an MMO, I agree with you. Where our opinions vary is that I don't feel there is anything wrong with people doing this. When a company builds a project around the license of a well known established IP that is not their own, they are also buying all the mental baggage that comes with that IP. Considering the Star Wars franchise is older than MMORPGS, and is almost as old as video games themselves, it is unsuprising that SW fans are going to look at this game as a Star Wars product first and a MMO second. And Bioware had better be ready to reap the whirlwind if this game fails to meet the SW fanbase's expectations.
Do I feel that this is fair? Not really, but if Bioware didn't want to have this kind of pressure they could have just created their own IP for a game rather than trying to tap the already existing SW fanbase (and their bank accounts).
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
Or find a game that appeals to them and stop trolling a forum for a game they know they won't play. But then again common sense rarely enters the mind of trolls.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
Maybe you should preach that mantra to some of the ethnic groups in this country, and see if they react any better than a SWG refugee does.
Please, make sure someone is video taping when you try it.
Edit: I would like to add that not only will I, a die-hard SWG vet be playing SWTOR, I have built a new computer for myself, my fiance, and my son so that we can all play together. I don't expect SWG2, from anyone, ever. I expect SWTOR to be it's OWN game, and to be great on it's own merits.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
Maybe you should preach that mantra to some of the ethnic groups in this country, and see if they react any better than a SWG refugee does.
Please, make sure someone is video taping when you try it.
Did you REALLY just compare racism and slavery to the fingerbanging we SWG vets got from SOE?!
That's ABSURD.
(the fingerbanging was worse)
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
I think many people are turned off by the arrogance and contempt of posts like this actually from so-called SWTOR supporters like you. Your hostility isn't doing the game any favours.
I don't think I was being hostile with that post. I was merely pointing out a blatantly obvious fact about the motives of some of this game's most vocal haters and the fact that there is nothing Bioware can do to make them happy short of completely redesigning the game...
If you think I'm wrong in that belief, I am certainly open for a logical debate.
I apologize if I struck a nerve, but unless I'm missing something, I really don't see anything especially arrogant or contemptful in my post. I merely stated what I believe to be true.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
I think many people are turned off by the arrogance and contempt of posts like this actually from so-called SWTOR supporters like you. Your hostility isn't doing the game any favours.
Oh brother. The thread title specifically asks why people hate this game. Judging by the actions of the people on this site who regularly post hateful comments in one game after another, his assessment is very accurate.
The fact is , if they mess up Bounty Hunters (like no player bounties) i wont even blink an eye at this game!!!!
Sorry just the way i feel....
If they have player bounties, why would it be exclusive to bounty hunters, its like saying lets have one feature in the game that only 1/8th of the player population can expereince. At best i see NPC bounty missions sorta like daily quests, but i dont see how it would work against players.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I'm still trying to understand what people like about the game, so far is all I've got is "OMG STARWARS".
Well thats probably because you have selective hearing... because the rest of that sentence is "OMG STARWARS... AND BIOWARE IS DOING IT!"
Unless you have a long list of failed bioware projects that the rest of us dont know about, bioware making anything is a good enough reason to get excited. They are good at what they do, and a lot of us enjoy how they do it.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I'm still trying to understand what people like about the game, so far is all I've got is "OMG STARWARS".
Well thats probably because you have selective hearing... because the rest of that sentence is "OMG STARWARS... AND BIOWARE IS DOING IT!"
Unless you have a long list of failed bioware projects that the rest of us dont know about, bioware making anything is a good enough reason to get excited. They are good at what they do, and a lot of us enjoy how they do it.
He also has selective sight because there has been plenty of reasons given by posters here of why they are looking forward to this game. As for me, Star Wars might have got me to give the game a look, but it isn't why I continue to follow TOR. I like the way the combat is shaping up, I love the lore that Bioware has created for this game, I love that Bioware is going out of its way to not make the journey such a boring nd tedious grind, I love the way companions are going to be used in this game........I could go on and on. But I'm sure that all I just said will be ignored and sometime later another poster with a hate on for the TOR will post the same "OMG STAR WARS" drivel.
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
I think many people are turned off by the arrogance and contempt of posts like this actually from so-called SWTOR supporters like you. Your hostility isn't doing the game any favours.
I don't think I was being hostile with that post. I was merely pointing out a blatantly obvious fact about the motives of some of this game's most vocal haters and the fact that there is nothing Bioware can do to make them happy short of completely redesigning the game...
If you think I'm wrong in that belief, I am certainly open for a logical debate.
I apologize if I struck a nerve, but unless I'm missing something, I really don't see anything especially arrogant or contemptful in my post. I merely stated what I believe to be true.
Your argument didn't hit a nerve; your tone and language did. The fact that you can't see that, doesn't bode well for the kind of people who will be playing this game.
Frankly the repeated baseless arguments and constant negativity of the SWG vets has caused me to react this way. If I wasn't forced to wade through thread after thread about why this game will fail because it isn't sandbox, perhaps I would not have so much angst regarding them. The game has been in development for quite a long time now and anyone with any legitimate interest in it should know exactly what to expect at this point.
I don't think it is improper or unreasonable of me to point out that some people need to accept the reality that is TOR instead of complaining that it is not something else...
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
I think many people are turned off by the arrogance and contempt of posts like this actually from so-called SWTOR supporters like you. Your hostility isn't doing the game any favours.
I don't think I was being hostile with that post. I was merely pointing out a blatantly obvious fact about the motives of some of this game's most vocal haters and the fact that there is nothing Bioware can do to make them happy short of completely redesigning the game...
If you think I'm wrong in that belief, I am certainly open for a logical debate.
I apologize if I struck a nerve, but unless I'm missing something, I really don't see anything especially arrogant or contemptful in my post. I merely stated what I believe to be true.
Your argument didn't hit a nerve; your tone and language did. The fact that you can't see that, doesn't bode well for the kind of people who will be playing this game.
Just admit it, you don't like this game and are looking for any excuse to dismiss it. Why else use such a blatant logical fallacy?
Comments
IMO Richard Garriot had the right idea with his last MMO Tablua Rasa but made a couple critical mistakes- leaving out pvp and leaving the earth's atmosphere shortly after launch and leaving all the work to the devs which took them a whlie to figure out what was needed to be done and by then it was far too late then issues with RG vs NCSoft turned sour and ended up closing Tablua Rasa. There's very few MMO games these days that go their own way rather than follow WoW and/or EQ's ruleset, Star Trek Online is another however I don't think it's 100% Cryptic's fault for its crappiness (Perpetual screwed it up previously).
I liked KOTOR, when playing it back then, I thought to myself, "THIS ought to be the MMORPG we should be playing", hopefully TOR will be like it minus the turn based combat system and I loved the character level up system (choose individal powers and assemble weapons). Mass Effect 1/2 are significant improvements over KOTOR"s story system which I know TOR will have.
City of Heroes and Aion are the only other MMO games I can tolorate playing right now and they did a great job of cutting down spammers and account hijackers in Aion.
I like what this game is trying to do because I have been an RPG and videogame story fan for as long as I played video games seriously. BioWare RPG's have always had a special place in that history through games like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter and Kotor (as well as DA / ME recently).
Storyline is something I have always found lacking in every MMO, 'sandbox' or 'themepark' that I have played up until now, so you'll find me a staunch supporter of that direction, even before TOR ever got announced.
That said, in the surprising event that it is shit I will not stick with it, though I might play it longer than the general public would.
What you're saying here is something I've been saying for ages as well and something you can observe time and time again from the very dawn of mass media and even much before.
But I don't think you'll find many of those who "hate" or critique this game just because it is popular ready to profess that they do, just look at the way all the WoW-hater nonsense is still persisting.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I can't hate (or like) a game I haven't played yet.
I can't see how anyone can hate a game that has not even been released,you can dislike a game but hardly if you never played it.
Impossible hate a game you have not played even if you have played it you csnt realy hate it but you can very much dislike it.
Op asks if it is hate just becouse it is so popular,well that game cant be popular either it has nobody playing it yet,you may dislike the title tho.
I'm still trying to understand what people like about the game, so far is all I've got is "OMG STARWARS".
I cant say I hate/love it I am leaning tword love it though just because I love the IP. When it comes out and I have played it then I will make my choice.
Bioware has never let me down. They always produce great games and they are almost always fairly bug free.
If this game is nothing more then a co-op mass effect I would be happy.
BIOWARE has never failed at producing a good game. How can you hate the perfect?
Well, most everyone caught the intent of the post, some didn't...some read the first line and knee-jerk replied, completely missing the point, as is to be expected.
For those who completely missed it, the objective was simply to point out how a lot of people will ignore facts when forming an opinion about something, simply based on shallow reasons like popularity. There are some people who hate WoW (or Bieber, or Obama, or religion, or other races, etc) purely because of its status, and search for every possible tidbit that will vindicate that hatred, while completely ignoring anything positive.
I made this post because I have no doubt that there are going to be a lot of people who will do the same thing with TOR. They will search for reasons to hate it (or love it), and if they don't sit back and look at the game more subjectively, they may end up missing out on an awesome gaming experience (or waste $50+). The post was simply a plea for the side of reason and thought, in the hopes that some people will realize what they're doing, stop their crusade, and take off the blinders. Love or hate the game based purely on it's merits/flaws while being aware of both.
The fact is , if they mess up Bounty Hunters (like no player bounties) i wont even blink an eye at this game!!!!
Sorry just the way i feel....
The reason why so many people hate this particular game is because there are so many sandbox MMO fans on these forums who want desperately for any new Star Wars game to be like their precious pre-NGE SWG. Since we all know at this point that SWTOR will be NOTHING like that, they hate it and bash it mercilessly at every opportunity.
It's sad really. Some people REALLY need to learn to let go of the past...
First off, I think you meant objectively rather than subjectively.
As to people not taking this MMO at face value and just judging it on its properties as an MMO, I agree with you. Where our opinions vary is that I don't feel there is anything wrong with people doing this. When a company builds a project around the license of a well known established IP that is not their own, they are also buying all the mental baggage that comes with that IP. Considering the Star Wars franchise is older than MMORPGS, and is almost as old as video games themselves, it is unsuprising that SW fans are going to look at this game as a Star Wars product first and a MMO second. And Bioware had better be ready to reap the whirlwind if this game fails to meet the SW fanbase's expectations.
Do I feel that this is fair? Not really, but if Bioware didn't want to have this kind of pressure they could have just created their own IP for a game rather than trying to tap the already existing SW fanbase (and their bank accounts).
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Maybe you should preach that mantra to some of the ethnic groups in this country, and see if they react any better than a SWG refugee does.
Please, make sure someone is video taping when you try it.
Edit: I would like to add that not only will I, a die-hard SWG vet be playing SWTOR, I have built a new computer for myself, my fiance, and my son so that we can all play together. I don't expect SWG2, from anyone, ever. I expect SWTOR to be it's OWN game, and to be great on it's own merits.
Did you REALLY just compare racism and slavery to the fingerbanging we SWG vets got from SOE?!
That's ABSURD.
(the fingerbanging was worse)
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I don't think I was being hostile with that post. I was merely pointing out a blatantly obvious fact about the motives of some of this game's most vocal haters and the fact that there is nothing Bioware can do to make them happy short of completely redesigning the game...
If you think I'm wrong in that belief, I am certainly open for a logical debate.
I apologize if I struck a nerve, but unless I'm missing something, I really don't see anything especially arrogant or contemptful in my post. I merely stated what I believe to be true.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
How can a person hate a game that they havent even played. But, this is mmorpg.com, and hatin is in the blood.
Exactly lol...seems to be the thing to do around here.
If they have player bounties, why would it be exclusive to bounty hunters, its like saying lets have one feature in the game that only 1/8th of the player population can expereince. At best i see NPC bounty missions sorta like daily quests, but i dont see how it would work against players.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Well thats probably because you have selective hearing... because the rest of that sentence is "OMG STARWARS... AND BIOWARE IS DOING IT!"
Unless you have a long list of failed bioware projects that the rest of us dont know about, bioware making anything is a good enough reason to get excited. They are good at what they do, and a lot of us enjoy how they do it.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
He also has selective sight because there has been plenty of reasons given by posters here of why they are looking forward to this game. As for me, Star Wars might have got me to give the game a look, but it isn't why I continue to follow TOR. I like the way the combat is shaping up, I love the lore that Bioware has created for this game, I love that Bioware is going out of its way to not make the journey such a boring nd tedious grind, I love the way companions are going to be used in this game........I could go on and on. But I'm sure that all I just said will be ignored and sometime later another poster with a hate on for the TOR will post the same "OMG STAR WARS" drivel.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Frankly the repeated baseless arguments and constant negativity of the SWG vets has caused me to react this way. If I wasn't forced to wade through thread after thread about why this game will fail because it isn't sandbox, perhaps I would not have so much angst regarding them. The game has been in development for quite a long time now and anyone with any legitimate interest in it should know exactly what to expect at this point.
I don't think it is improper or unreasonable of me to point out that some people need to accept the reality that is TOR instead of complaining that it is not something else...
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft