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I Will Not Pay For Another MMO As Long As...
TheFarseer
Member Posts: 97
I've decided I'm not going to buy another MMO for as long as they stick to these stupid design rules that seem to be hurting every game. It pisses me off that game designers seem to lack any originality (or that company executives are retards that don't understand market share, niche sector filling etc etc) and still expect me to pay monthly for it.
I will not pay for another MMO as long as...
- The design seems to be a typical static themepark. I don't see why I should have to pay for cheap server hosting somewhere when there's no dynamic content generation going on. I would, however, pay for a themepark/sandbox mix or something close to sandbox.
- I am expected to grind my way up to max level, whether it is through mobs or quests. Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs? (See: Every single god damn game.)
- Developers still try to push cash shop services into P2P games. Do one or the other, for god's sake. (Hi WoW and other MMOs.)
- The gameplay is still "go down this quest corridor and follow it to it's very end, do not deviate from the path". (Sad that WoW has became this after Vanilla WoW wasn't so bad for it. Good game, Blizzard.)
- The paying model is confusing as shit and isn't immediately obvious. (Hi FFXV and Wurm Online.)
- An aspect of gameplay is useless at end game. (See: Crafting in pretty much every MMO.)
That's all of mine for now.
What about you guys? Have you promised yourselves not to buy another MMO due to the same shit, different game syndrome we seem to be having? What makes you not want to buy another MMO?
Comments
I admit that I share much of your sentiments here. Especially the "Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs?" I haven't gone as far to swear them off, but I am getting more selective.
There ARE things the dude cannot abide. Cash shops in P2P is one of them. I recently bought STO for less than a pack of smokes. Its a P2P with a MAJOR IP. I won't go into the flaws of the game itself, but a CASH SHOP?! REALLY?! I don't hate myself for spending so little money on it, but I certainly would if I gave them 15 bucks a month for a cash shop game.
I don't particularly enjoy themeparks. If usually find them fun UNTIL the level cap, and then realize the only thing left to do is the same things over and over and over. The handholding and dumbed down nature of these games gets old. There are exceptions to every generalization, I realize, but yes I am going to make this generalizaiton anyway.
I miss great crafting with resources gathering (that DOESN'T always involve killing MOBs) and a player driven economy. SWG was the first game I ever decided to be a real crafter in, and I remain a spoiled elitist about it. I had hopes for Earthrise, but seeing as all crafting materials are currently obtained as loot, well, EFF that (game/server performance issues aside). Xsyon is pretty much all I'm holding my breath for on the crafting front. But without meaningful combat, is any of it truly necessary?
I hate the term "end-game." An MMO shouldn't even have an end. There is a difference between level/skill cap and character progression, and I feel like we have forgotten this as a genre. The character doesn't end when it reaches a cap, so why should its evolution? Storytelling is nearly non-existant in games these days, and we are rarely given a good enough tool set to do it on our own. This is one of the reasons I look forward to trying my hand at SW:TOR.
I would like to see more dynamic elements in MMOs. I would like to see the actions of players affect the world more, and not just from MY character's perspective. I want to see more real economies. I want to see meaningful crafting and the freedom to build a character how one chooses.
The thing is, we are so hung up on graphics needing to be bleeding edge that companies sacrifice meaningful gameplay developement to accomodate. I would gladly take an MMO that looks like 2003 era SWG if it meant a deeper game, but I am afraid I am in the minority there. I also realize that a lot of things I dream about in the perfect MMO are new ground as far as coding is concerned. Dynamicism is not easy to come by, by any means. Add to that exploiters, corner cutters and instant gratification seekers and you have a minefield for a consumer base. If you don't gaurd against the asshats, the "good' players aren't going to put up with it.
It's not easy to make an MMO. And its damn near IMPOSSIBLE to make a great one. There are plenty of great features out there, but games have AT MOST only one of them. I'm not sure what it would take developers to make a game that cobbles all of the existing great features together, but I suspect that it'd be more than they'd get back. There are millions out there who are happy with the simplicity of what we already have, so why take a risk on something great?
That being said, I can't blame you for being fed up with mediocrity. Its a hard genre to love anymore.
*edit for add*
Here's what I hope. Over the next decade, the millions of WoW players who never heard the letters MMO before that game get tired of the same old and start wanting deeper and more dynamic games. THEN there will truly be a market share worth going after with QUALITY PRODUCTS.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I agree. That's why I stopped playing MMOs. I wouldn't play most of them even if THEY paid ME to play it. They are not even worth my time!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Good for you then where there are tons of games out there that is 'not like WoW'.
Let those who like 'WoW' play 'WoW' and other 'WoW like' games and those who like 'sandbox MMOs' play 'Sandbox MMOs'.
I seriously doubt the game designers are 'stupid' though, they are serving a need the public wants.
The public wants themepark so the demand is being met.
Free Market = Demand is met by supply.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The public wants themepark games which is why pretty much all non-Asian themepark games other than WoW are unsustainable.
Right.
I understand your 'pain', and that you want to draw a comparison between MMOs and single-player games, but it's still incredibly hard to put the same kind of story that SP's have into an MMO.
Single player games are still theme parks, even games like Mass Effect. There's still a definitive beginning and end. And, single-player games last about 20-30 hours, and you're done. They go in a corner and you buy the next one.
MMOs are long-term. They're designed to keep you playing for months, if not years. Of course, it would be awesome if every single step of that journey was story-packed awesomesauce. But do you know how friggin' hard it is to write that amount of individual content? SWTOR seems to be trying, but I still have this suspicion that your character is going to be 'done' after a couple months of playing.
Most developers seem to be trying to find some new and/or interesting ways to spice up your character's journey, to varying degress of success.
GW2 and SWTOR are on my shopping list.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I wonder how many sandboxes must release before the sandbox fans stop whing about themepark MMOs...
There is alot of sandboxes out there for you to play, why dont play them instead of whining here?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Can't say I won't buy another game as you've described, but I definitely won't buy any more of them until I try them first. It's becoming increasingly apparent that I'll have to search somewhere besides MMOs for my social gaming fix, though.
We want to have our cake and eat it too!! Which is why you see so much of it. Sandboxes have been generally RIDDLED with problems, and after we've all experienced the gleaming polish of the current themeparks....well, we want BOTH! What the sandbox crew wants is a sandbox with WoW-level polish. Whether or not thats even feasible at this point doesn't seem to enter in to consideration.
I think its a matter of how much time gets spent by players in MMOs. Its really hard for a game to hold up to the scrutiny that gets put on it by people who play it 5-12 hours a DAY. The people clamouring for snadboxes can safely be consider the folks willing to spend the most amount of hours playing, therefore they are the most difficult to please.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Have you looked at Xsyon it seems to be getting some good reviews.
I think it is erroneous to imply that sandbox fans are the "power users" of MMORPGs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
But that's my point. The greatest strength of a sandbox MMO is the fact you don't have to put in "story-packed awesomesauce".
You let a player into the world, give him a sword, a hammer and an axe and let him do what he wants to do. The development time for those tools might be awhile, but it's still far better than trying to write epic (read: godawful and clichéd) storylines.
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Papadam</i>
<br><b><p>I wonder how many sandboxes must release before the sandbox fans stop whing about themepark MMOs...</p>
<p>There is alot of sandboxes out there for you to play, why dont play them instead of whining here?</p>
</b></blockquote>
<p> </p>
Yes, those amazing sandbox games like Wurm Online (hi 9-5 grind), Darkfall Online (again, hi 9-5 grind for meaningless playtime) and... Errr... Does Ultima Online count anymore?
I tasted a sandbox game that was near perfection, once. It was called Wish. Unfortunately, the company collapsed during beta.
There're far more themepark games and with far more changes in rulesets than there are in sandbox games. Most sandbox games don't even know how to get core gameplay right, missing basic stuff like total skill caps etc.
Thank god for SWTOR then......oh wait.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Yeah the market is really demanding more WoW-like games. Just look at the success of AoC, WAR, LoTRO, hey wait a minute...
Oh and you can add RIFT to that list in a few months.
Bioware should thank their lucky stars they have the SW license to pull them through the WoW-like swamp of fail.
To OP, I agree 100%......
That is why games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age do so well, they outclas all MMOs.
Back in 1999, when EQ first came out we were all more forgiving because we didnt really know what a MMO was as UO and EQ were the first. We were all just glad we could play with friends and so many other players. It reminded us of the days of yore playing D&D on a table top from 6pm to 6am on a Saturday night while eating pizza and drinking pepsi. LOL
But now......we have had the same old same old rammed down our throats and people still buy the crap being released.
Funny you want a sandbox without a grind last i checked all sandbox games are skill grinds instead of quest or gear grinds. In any MMO you are going to have to grind something it is a matter of how well they mask the grind to make it seem like it doesn't suck.
You have no idea what a sandbox game is, do you?
The best part is that, as WoW has became progressively shittier (and, yes, it has), the other games have followed the trend of "Holy crap, we can make our games into even MORE of an on-the-rails questing game!"
I wont buy an mmo where you tab target anymore.
I'll keep on paying as long as I have fun. I even payed a subscription for LOTRO so as to play for 10 days until Rift is out. Fun is serious business, hehe.
This post does not see market reality.
AoC/War/LoTRO/Aion/DDO are all successful 'wow-like' games.
Even if we take out the king WoW, Aion alone has 3.5M subs.
In today's market; more people PAY for themepark games than sandbox games. (FACT)
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I can't think of a sandbox that had less grind than a comparable themepark. Maybe Lineage 2 first years is an exception in the themepark front. Warshipping the theoretical superiority of sandboxes is fine and all, but the majority forces players to repetition until their skills advance in a non-useless point.
I won't play a game that is heavy in instances.
I won't play a game that has battlegrounds.
I won't play a game with quest hubs.
I won't play a game that is static.
I won't play a game that retricts my gameplay choices.
I won't play a game that has a small game world.
OP is waiting for a sandbox game. Recommend Xyson if you have some tolerance for incomplete games but want to support the vision.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's funny about this statement, while true, if you included everything that is currently in Xyson it would be more than most other games. Some of the features in Xyson are crazy good.