Bullshit. It is not about success IT IS ALL about having fun so a game with 1k sold copies and population of 500 ppl which delivers me fun is success for me. The numbers doesn't count since you do not gain anything from them. RIFT is overhyped and with the developers of Mythic it will go down in an year max.
/facepalm
"Oh look! Theres that Adam guy from Mythic! He's one of the oh, 50+ developers from multiple game studios that Trion hired to make their game, which means that the whole team is now Mythic because hes there!"
There are several developers from many dev teams working on Rift. Members from the WoW dev teams, EQ and EQ2 dev team, various other ex SOE, NCSoft, etc etc. A little research and a bit of knowledge will help you from coming off as a total whacktard.
As for the OP, yeah the game is really well done compaired to the MMOs that have released in the last few years. While the game isn't 'OMG Revolutionary!' it is fun and captures the familiar and mixes it with bits of new (something WoW got praise for while other games tend to get slammed for....).
And in the end it's really all about having fun. And in my opinion Rift is fun enough for me to play it. Being polished and well done is bonus points.
To add to the Mythic guy debate ... You can also see his experience in a positive light.
Dev1: (Excited voice) Hey guys I have an idea, its really cool and we should implement it. Goes like this ...
Adam: (Experienced voice) NO! Don't do that! It's a bad idea because ...
The failed attempt to appear smart does not change the fact that LOTRO is a financial success for Turbine. Of course, the P2P model was not working for them, but their current model seems to work just fine.
As for Rift now, having reached the 40+ mark, I can say that the game will have a very short life if the only thing that we end up doing at level cap is the 10 dungeons and 2 raids. I suppose it'll keep me entertained for a couple months in the PvE side of things.
I hope they utilise the open world as good as I've seen them utilise it for open world PvP.
Even tho things didnt go like they would've liked, AoC made money for Funcom is what I've read. Anyways Whoever said
"Name one title that's been released since WoW that actually had a franchise with a full history behind it?" obviously dont have a single clue about MMOs and/or franchises lol.
I like Rift atm, but this is my first beta so its really hard to tell how long it will last for me and impossible to say what endgame will be like. Been playing WoW since release with long breaks between each expansion and I have to say with Cata blizzard reached a new level of phasing. Apart from the two starting zones for 80s, the world is almost empty. Thats because ppl are in different phasing. Its like playing a singelplayer game most of the time. And there is pretty much nothing going on in the world, there's no outdoors raids no world pvp. Everyone just stands around in OG/IF and zone to wherever they wanna be.
Enough rant. Point is, I like open world MMOs. I dont like crossrealming, zone into dungeon, arena pvp. If the ppl in my guild was the only ppl on the server, it would make NO difference to me at all except maybe less lag in Orgrimmar o_O
I realize Rift isnt going to kill WoW, if you think this you cannot be part of a serious discussion. But wether I end up playing it or not, I hope it has a big enough sub base to keep it developing. Its about time some other MMO makes it or I think the genre will take a big hit in investors.
The failed attempt to appear smart does not change the fact that LOTRO is a financial success for Turbine. Of course, the P2P model was not working for them, but their current model seems to work just fine.
As for Rift now, having reached the 40+ mark, I can say that the game will have a very short life if the only thing that we end up doing at level cap is the 10 dungeons and 2 raids. I suppose it'll keep me entertained for a couple months in the PvE side of things.
I hope they utilise the open world as good as I've seen them utilise it for open world PvP.
Now.. How is 10 dungeons / 2 raids BAD?
How many did WOW have at release? Tell me? How bugged was WOW? Tell me.
Rift is far more polished in BETA than WoW was at RELEASE. Yes it will be a succes. This is will be the most polished and fun MMO since 2006-7.
To OP, do you really think that ex WoW players who initially played WAR or AoC or Aion felt any different?
It is like a new WoW expansion so it feels fresh and familiar. However, in a couple of months, that will wear off and people will be back to WoW. No copy will ever beat an original.
I think we have a lot of players who started mmorpg's with WoW, are now burned out and looking for that " virgin feeling" they got when they first started playing WoW.
The problem aren't the games being launched so much as some folks not understanding that they will NEVER have that feeling again. That feeling of awe..stepping into a new world and being pulled completely away from reality. It's a feeling that only happens a few times in one's life.
Virgin sex,falling in love, trying a new drug....and first time playing a mmorpg. ( subject matter can differ depending on the person..but for the sake of making a point)
To OP, do you really think that ex WoW players who initially played WAR or AoC or Aion felt any different?
It is like a new WoW expansion so it feels fresh and familiar. However, in a couple of months, that will wear off and people will be back to WoW. No copy will ever beat an original.
There is nothing in wow to go back to, if you're tired/bored of the content you left behind. Unless you're prone to self punishment I suppose.
What'll happen is either a hiatus from all MMOs or finding some obscure game.
There's no question Rift built on a foundation laid by WoW, but luckily it provides enough of its own unique brand of content to seperate itself.
While at first glance it's very similar on the surface, I can happily say that when I'm engrossed in Rift, WoW is the LAST thing on my mind. Which pleases me, I did WoW, nothing much to go back to there as each expansion feels like more of the same grinds rehashed. They're interesting for 2-4 weeks, then it's 2 years rotting at cap till a new expansion provides us with another 2-4 weeks of content.
Either way, I'm well beyond being concerned about how similar it may or may not be to other games in various aspects, I'm just glad to have found something that's sucking me in again.
Um, most of those ideas did not become the sole property of WoW just because they took them first. Other games did use concepts that were found in other games that predated WoW. Sadly simple people tend to think 'WoW did it all first' so everything used by those games were 'borrowed' from just WoW (instead of all the games that came before it that infact had those very same features....)
You seem to have either completely missed the point they were making, or you're making a strawman argument.
He's not arguing that anything became the "sole property of WoW".
He sums his entire point up in 2 sentences:
"WoW took multiple concepts form multiple games and added its own flavor to them using the Warcraft history from the other 3 Warcraft games."
"Games after WoW get slammed for taking 99% of their ideas from that one game and adding only 1% of their own "flavor" to them - Rift's biggest gimmick, being random mob spawners."
That's it. His point is summed up in those two sentences.
He's said nothing about anything being the sole property of anyone. He's saying that Blizzard took established concepts from games that came before it, and made them work in their own well-established setting. They polished the systems up, made them "more accessible" and created a MMO that has gone on to beTHE go-to MMO that most developers base their games on when developing a Western-style MMO ever since. The term "WoW Clone" didn't appear by accident.
I know people love to make the argument about "WoW copied other games before it, too! So there!". But that's not really what the debate is about, and such remarks are either missing the point, or deliberately avoiding it.
The point is, post WoW developers are not taking long-established systems and concepts from various other games and putting their own twist on them, integrating them into their own settings as Blizzard did with WoW. They're borrowing the specific implementation that Blizzard used for WoW and practically carbon-copying them in their own games.
So, yes... in that wayLerxst's point is completely valid and a very good observation, for those who want to look deeper than who "who copied who first".
Most all the developers back in the EQ1 days copied others before them - but they still managed to create MMOs with their own unique feel. EQ1 felt nothing like AC1. Shadowbane felt nothing like DAoC. UO felt nothing like Anarchy Online, and so forth. Each was its own unique experience, despite each having similar systems between them.
Since WoW, however, most all MMOs being developed (again, especially Western-styled ones) feel very much like WoW. There's something to be said for that.
Biggest problem a lot of people have is the inability to understand that there is no such thing as 'new'. Every concept, every idea and pretty much every story has been done/told before. Everything borrows from everything else, its a fact of life. Everyone is just too quick to slap the 'WoW clone' lable on everything because its easier than coming up with legitimate reasons for not liking something.
Again, it has nothing to do with whether it's "new" or not. You're just skimming the same surface argument many others make. Think deeper.
It's not the "act" that matters. It's the implementation.
Rift isn't just borrowing concepts from WoW, they are borrowing concepts from EVERY themepark style MMO that has come out both before and after WoW. I can't help the fact that some people just can't see past WoW. If they could they would discover that WoW really doesnt innovate but instead borrows and reuses features of other games. The only thing I could give WoW credit for as far as being original is the LFD tool.
... and implementing them in ways that are very similar to WoW's specific implementation of them.
Let me put it this way.
My sister, a long-time WoW player, but by no means a forum dweller like the rest of us. She doesn't play almost every new MMO to come out. She doesn't eat, breathe and live MMOs every day of her life like some of us do. She has no ulterior motive to anything she does or says. She's not pro-WoW nor anti-Anything Else. She's simply someone who happens to enjoy playing World of Warcraft.
That said, she decided to give the Rift beta a try after someone she knows in-game kept nagging her about "how Rift is going to be the WoW killer", blah blah blah... She decided to check the game out, it seemed interesting to her so she signed up for beta. She was accepted and logged in.
I talked to her on the phone after she'd played in a couple beta events and she told me how she'd checked it out. Her description was, and I quote: "I dunno. I uninstalled. It feels just like WoW to me, except a few things are different. The rifts were pretty cool. If I'm going to play something that feels like WoW, I may as well play WoW."
Hers is an honest reaction from someone with no agenda, no personal stake in either game succeeding or failing.
Myself, I'd like to see Rift succeed. The more options there are out there for everyone, the better. More is more. However, I played in the beta and, honestly, my reaction is the same as hers. It felt like the same MMO I've played before, only with a few different twists... "gimmicks" if you will.
Like Aion with its "flying" gimmick, or WAR with its Pubilc Quests, Rift has its "rifts" as its gimmick. At their core, though, they all left me with the feeling of "I've played this game before".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think we have a lot of players who started mmorpg's with WoW, are now burned out and looking for that " virgin feeling" they got when they first started playing WoW.
The problem aren't the games being launched so much as some folks not understanding that they will NEVER have that feeling again. That feeling of awe..stepping into a new world and being pulled completely away from reality. It's a feeling that only happens a few times in one's life.
Virgin sex,falling in love, trying a new drug....and first time playing a mmorpg. ( subject matter can differ depending on the person..but for the sake of making a point)
I think we have a lot of players are looking for fun.
If you're having fun, great, but you may be over thinking this, just my opinion...
I don't need some sort of awe inspiring feeling, or fall in love with an MMO, or for it to feel like the first time i had sex. Thats almost a comical way to think to be honest with you.
i just need fun
I am not burnt out on MMOs, I am burnt out on WoW, and all games that can't step away from it... I'm not sure how better i can explain it than that. I am tired of the same progression, for the same gear, to go to the same 5 man, on to "heroic" on to.......
The more an MMO steps away from that old tired model, the more of a chance i will give it. The game i am playing now, has a fraction of the polish of Rift, less than half the content amongst other things. But its something somewhat fresh, and I'm finding it fun, because its not the same old rehashed content i've already done..
Again, you're finding it fun, great. But some seem to be tired of it... perhaps they need something a lil stronger in their "drug".
How many did WOW have at release? Tell me? How bugged was WOW? Tell me.
Rift is far more polished in BETA than WoW was at RELEASE. Yes it will be a succes. This is will be the most polished and fun MMO since 2006-7.
If you read what I posted, you would have avoided the confusion. I didn't say that the number of dungeons is bad. I said that by themselves, those dungeons are not enough to keep people interested beyond a certain time frame.
Besides, I don't see why Trion would lock people in the dungeons, when they got the tools to create open world events.
I think we have a lot of players who started mmorpg's with WoW, are now burned out and looking for that " virgin feeling" they got when they first started playing WoW.
The problem aren't the games being launched so much as some folks not understanding that they will NEVER have that feeling again. That feeling of awe..stepping into a new world and being pulled completely away from reality. It's a feeling that only happens a few times in one's life.
Virgin sex,falling in love, trying a new drug....and first time playing a mmorpg. ( subject matter can differ depending on the person..but for the sake of making a point)
Not in my case.
My "first love" was FFXI... which was not my first MMO, by any means. I played 2 or 3 others prior to that (Asheron's Call 2, Shadowbane and Anarchy Online). So my "MMO cherry" had already been popped. I happened to love Asheron's Call 2 and, to this day I will say that if that game had never gone under, even with XI on the scene, I likely would still be playing AC2.
Since then, I'm not looking for another "FFXI". I am however looking for something that at least stands out from the crowd as FFXI and AC2 did, instead of just following it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
What you see as WoW UI today is a carbon copy of AC2 UI, with the addition/copying/stealing/ of popular community addons over the years.
The funny bit was that LOTRO later was considered a WoW clone, when guess who copied who. (LOTRO for those who don't know it is a direct decendant of AC2).
Ayep. That's something I used to bring up to people when they said "ZOMG! Look at LoTRO's interface! WoW clone!"
I would post a screenshot of AC2, then a screenshot of LoTRO, point out that AC2 was released before WoW, and note that they copied themselves if anyone.
Didn't matter. People who are, for whatever reason, determined to cling to their arguments - however wrong they are - let it go in one ear and out the other... so to speak. Why let actual reality destroy their favorite version of it, right?
One person I remember made a particularly funny retort, intended as a "gotcha". They said, to paraphrase, "Oh, so it's okay if they steal ideas from others, as long as its themselves?". Yes, I facepalmed.
Mind you, later down the road - except for the interface aspect - I would not have disagreed with someone calling LoTRO a WoW clone, since that's what Turbine pretty much turned it into anyway.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
To add to the Mythic guy debate ... You can also see his experience in a positive light.
Dev1: (Excited voice) Hey guys I have an idea, its really cool and we should implement it. Goes like this ...
Adam: (Experienced voice) NO! Don't do that! It's a bad idea because ...
Just remember that LOTRO was very polished at release too, but I don't see much talk about that nowadays
Actualy LOTRO is a financial success for Turbine. You know what's not much of a success? Games you forgot they even existed.
I remember AoC...
EDIT: And Dark and Light
The failed attempt to appear smart does not change the fact that LOTRO is a financial success for Turbine. Of course, the P2P model was not working for them, but their current model seems to work just fine.
As for Rift now, having reached the 40+ mark, I can say that the game will have a very short life if the only thing that we end up doing at level cap is the 10 dungeons and 2 raids. I suppose it'll keep me entertained for a couple months in the PvE side of things.
I hope they utilise the open world as good as I've seen them utilise it for open world PvP.
Even tho things didnt go like they would've liked, AoC made money for Funcom is what I've read. Anyways Whoever said
"Name one title that's been released since WoW that actually had a franchise with a full history behind it?" obviously dont have a single clue about MMOs and/or franchises lol.
I like Rift atm, but this is my first beta so its really hard to tell how long it will last for me and impossible to say what endgame will be like. Been playing WoW since release with long breaks between each expansion and I have to say with Cata blizzard reached a new level of phasing. Apart from the two starting zones for 80s, the world is almost empty. Thats because ppl are in different phasing. Its like playing a singelplayer game most of the time. And there is pretty much nothing going on in the world, there's no outdoors raids no world pvp. Everyone just stands around in OG/IF and zone to wherever they wanna be.
Enough rant. Point is, I like open world MMOs. I dont like crossrealming, zone into dungeon, arena pvp. If the ppl in my guild was the only ppl on the server, it would make NO difference to me at all except maybe less lag in Orgrimmar o_O
I realize Rift isnt going to kill WoW, if you think this you cannot be part of a serious discussion. But wether I end up playing it or not, I hope it has a big enough sub base to keep it developing. Its about time some other MMO makes it or I think the genre will take a big hit in investors.
Now.. How is 10 dungeons / 2 raids BAD?
How many did WOW have at release? Tell me? How bugged was WOW? Tell me.
Rift is far more polished in BETA than WoW was at RELEASE. Yes it will be a succes. This is will be the most polished and fun MMO since 2006-7.
To OP, do you really think that ex WoW players who initially played WAR or AoC or Aion felt any different?
It is like a new WoW expansion so it feels fresh and familiar. However, in a couple of months, that will wear off and people will be back to WoW. No copy will ever beat an original.
My gaming blog
I think we have a lot of players who started mmorpg's with WoW, are now burned out and looking for that " virgin feeling" they got when they first started playing WoW.
The problem aren't the games being launched so much as some folks not understanding that they will NEVER have that feeling again. That feeling of awe..stepping into a new world and being pulled completely away from reality. It's a feeling that only happens a few times in one's life.
Virgin sex,falling in love, trying a new drug....and first time playing a mmorpg. ( subject matter can differ depending on the person..but for the sake of making a point)
There is nothing in wow to go back to, if you're tired/bored of the content you left behind. Unless you're prone to self punishment I suppose.
What'll happen is either a hiatus from all MMOs or finding some obscure game.
Original .... /facepalm
There's no question Rift built on a foundation laid by WoW, but luckily it provides enough of its own unique brand of content to seperate itself.
While at first glance it's very similar on the surface, I can happily say that when I'm engrossed in Rift, WoW is the LAST thing on my mind. Which pleases me, I did WoW, nothing much to go back to there as each expansion feels like more of the same grinds rehashed. They're interesting for 2-4 weeks, then it's 2 years rotting at cap till a new expansion provides us with another 2-4 weeks of content.
Either way, I'm well beyond being concerned about how similar it may or may not be to other games in various aspects, I'm just glad to have found something that's sucking me in again.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think we have a lot of players are looking for fun.
If you're having fun, great, but you may be over thinking this, just my opinion...
I don't need some sort of awe inspiring feeling, or fall in love with an MMO, or for it to feel like the first time i had sex. Thats almost a comical way to think to be honest with you.
i just need fun
I am not burnt out on MMOs, I am burnt out on WoW, and all games that can't step away from it... I'm not sure how better i can explain it than that. I am tired of the same progression, for the same gear, to go to the same 5 man, on to "heroic" on to.......
The more an MMO steps away from that old tired model, the more of a chance i will give it. The game i am playing now, has a fraction of the polish of Rift, less than half the content amongst other things. But its something somewhat fresh, and I'm finding it fun, because its not the same old rehashed content i've already done..
Again, you're finding it fun, great. But some seem to be tired of it... perhaps they need something a lil stronger in their "drug".
If you read what I posted, you would have avoided the confusion. I didn't say that the number of dungeons is bad. I said that by themselves, those dungeons are not enough to keep people interested beyond a certain time frame.
Besides, I don't see why Trion would lock people in the dungeons, when they got the tools to create open world events.
Not in my case.
My "first love" was FFXI... which was not my first MMO, by any means. I played 2 or 3 others prior to that (Asheron's Call 2, Shadowbane and Anarchy Online). So my "MMO cherry" had already been popped. I happened to love Asheron's Call 2 and, to this day I will say that if that game had never gone under, even with XI on the scene, I likely would still be playing AC2.
Since then, I'm not looking for another "FFXI". I am however looking for something that at least stands out from the crowd as FFXI and AC2 did, instead of just following it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Ayep. That's something I used to bring up to people when they said "ZOMG! Look at LoTRO's interface! WoW clone!"
I would post a screenshot of AC2, then a screenshot of LoTRO, point out that AC2 was released before WoW, and note that they copied themselves if anyone.
Didn't matter. People who are, for whatever reason, determined to cling to their arguments - however wrong they are - let it go in one ear and out the other... so to speak. Why let actual reality destroy their favorite version of it, right?
One person I remember made a particularly funny retort, intended as a "gotcha". They said, to paraphrase, "Oh, so it's okay if they steal ideas from others, as long as its themselves?". Yes, I facepalmed.
Mind you, later down the road - except for the interface aspect - I would not have disagreed with someone calling LoTRO a WoW clone, since that's what Turbine pretty much turned it into anyway.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops