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Sensitive Gamers - "I will defend my flawless game to the death!"
Emergence
Member Posts: 888
With my recent visit to Everquest 1, as well as noticing a lot of posts on these forums full of rash assumptions and logical conclusions which can only boggle the mind as to how they came to think that way, it is quite clear there are some... sensitive gamers.
Why do you think this is?
You may log into Everquest 1 and make one mere observation, such as... "Did it take this long to level in Original Everquest?" and you will be met by a ****storm of attacks and lashes. Reply with "Sorry, I wasn't complaining, I was just curious." and even more will join in, demanding silence of the newcomer.
Go to a forum here or post normally, and any observation on a MMORPG or concept will immediately have those in favor of said MMO or concept immediately attack you, put words inside of your mouth, and assume that "It took 4 hours to level" means "I want WoW EZ mode pwease, pwease, I can't stand to have challenge I'm a big gerber baby!" and they will see "I didn't like [MMO], it just wasn't my thing." as several personal attacks to their individual character, transforming "I dislike the game." into "I hate YOU!"
I have been a very big fan of the MMO genre, especially UO, EQ, and DAoC. Yet if someone attacks any of these, I tend to agree on their faults, not lie to myself "My game was perfect! Who dares challenge me personally?"
So it is really hard for me to understand the "sensitive gamer" or why the "old school" small community composed of long-time veterans (EQ1, DAoC current, etc.) are so sensitive towards their game.
After all... if someone is playing Everquest 1 and observes that leveling is slower than it used to be in 1999, or have their own opinion that it is "a little too slow, although I don't want it to be too fast", they are PLAYING it right? Obviously they like it if they're playing it. If they were complaining, they wouldn't be playing. So what gives?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
Some people attach their persona to a game, niche, or genre. Questioning the game is the same as questioning their being. People take games (MMOs in this case) way to seriously. Inherently, when playing one game over another, one genre over another or one niche over another is used as a reason to distinguish people and in turn develop imaginary superiority over others, there can be little hope for reasonable responses.
At the end of the day, labeling someone as the “other” makes the labeler feel a sense of power and superiority. Primitive, yes. New, No. People have been writing about this phenomenon for over 100 years.
--John Ruskin
LOL .. and the OP haven't even mentioned those who need to defend the DEFINITION of MMOs. I can hear the qq-ing now ...
"sob sob sob .. WOW is NOT a MMO because of feature x. The world MUST listen to me. All the players, all the reviewers, all the game developers in the world are WRONG. I am RIGHT. It must be renamed to a CORPG or i will SUE THEM .. i say SUE THEM for false advertising!!!!"
I agree with you. MMOs seem to engender some of the most obsessive behavior I've ever seen. Whether it's defending a game, or denouncing it, it's obvious that some people have invested far more emotional capital in a game than is prudent.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
EQ was a nice game, but it has a very dirty underbelly.
Many players are hackers in EQ, marcroquest has been supported for years and many players don't level legitamately.
It happens on every EQ server including the one just launched.
Any respect I had for EQ as a game is gone, because people hack.
I do agree with you OP but i feel the reason for the defenders of there games are because there are so many attackers, people who will judge a game in the first 10 mins of playing it and come on to places like this to slam the absolute hell out of this said game, not only that most defenders of there game have heard the same complaint about said problem and are sick of people talking about it.
Make any statement about a game, be it positive, negative or simply an observation and someone will attack the character of the speaker.
It's the #1 rule of trolling and fanboyism (the same thing really). Don't try to refute a statement that you disagree with, directly target the credibility of the speaker so that the statement will be viewed as nullified.
Watch these forums for example (no disrespect to the moderation). If one ignores any post where the emphasis is... "You are clearly wrong, and must be an idiot for posting this opinion"... the board activity is reduced by at least 50%.
Is it really that the defenders are taking statements personally, or is it that attacks are intended to be personal?
This is a bit of a 2 way street imo, half the time someone posts their opinion as if it is the only one, it all depends on the tone with which the critisisms are made. In such cases (especially on these forums) anyone trying to point out that it's just personal on the OP's part is instantly shut down by a barage of posters who share the OP's opinion calling them a fanboy.
The example you give is either an overeaction to the above situation or people who become obsessive even in the short term. Ironically these people jump from mmo to mmo and are commonly the first to abandon the game, there's no inbetween they are fickle and extremist.
A vast majority of people who play games long term and consider themselves loyal fans also can accept critisism of their game most of the time it's how the game progresses, afterall if everything were perfect there would be no evolution or progression of the game.
Overall though, there are just as many people all too ready to bash games for personal reasons they feel the world should know about. Also we mustn't forget most people don't really visit the O'boards of their game or here, the ones that do are opinionated, attention seeking, know-it-alls, I'm here afterall
This is a rather odd stance, words have meaning the deffinition of an accronym is defined by the meaning of the words it represents. In the case of mmo's it also has a traditional inferrence, which is sometimes where the problem occurs. It is necessary to have this otherwise we can be conned even more easily than we are atm. What if we start labeling all games as mmo just to get a few extra sucker buyers, the term loses it's point. I come to mmorpg.com, for instance, to read about stuff on mmo's, if half od that news is for sp/co-op I'll likely not remain because I have no interest in them and cba to sift through threads, at least not while another site will cater more to me.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
As the genre got extremely popular, websites such as this one became more popular too. And cyberbullys get more virulent. It becomes 'normal' to come in a forum and write a post such as "this dumbed down game will fail within 6 months"... and you don't even have to back it up to trigger a deluge of replies. On the other side, players have to support constant nagging in global chats such as "This game is dead" or "Go back to WoW".
And being anonymous just makes it worse. To a point where the major players in the industry are thinking about removing this 'privilege'.
After some times, over-reaction is tolerated or becomes the norm. And there is nothing you can do, except parting from global chats or going on a blocking spree.
My mantra is "Do not take things too seriously and you'll always be at ease". It's hard at times not to fall for baits but it's feasible.
fanbois are awesome
I think my signature fits perfectly with these type of people.
Not much to add to the thread, as my sig pretty much says it for me.
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
My game channel on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/vendayn
I have actually discovered that too much exposure to a combative forum like this one will turn one into a 'sensitive gamer'.
I am a big fan of WoW but I could spend hours talking about the game's flaws. However, after the barrage of insults one receives on these forums for liking WoW I have found myself wanting to defend WoW no matter what. After you get called 'lazy', 'brainless', 'a kid' or 'lowest common denominator' you get seriously tired of the abuse and and anyone who attacks the game defaults to 'idiot'.
Forums are for PVP, and on some occasions, so are in game chat channels.
You found yourself (perhaps unfairly) lumped in with the dozen or so peoiple before you who posted a similar question about the leveling speed but did have the hidden agenda of trying to infer it was defective somehow when compared to WOW, or the past or something else and the fans reacted negatively towards you.
Try to think of it in terms of professional sports. There's really no reason on earth for anyone to support a pro sports team. None. They're not your friends, they'd never invite you over to their house, (well, they do, and they make you pay them money for the privilige) and yet people will support them to the death and woe to the person who makes a disparaging comment about "their team".
For some reason people tend to develop an irrational attachment to things, be it sports, games, movies or even food (Coke is great by the way and I always told my children Pepsi sucks)
But back to your example OP, I think you were trying to ask the question from a Developers viewpoint (knowing your background) but got taken for a troll and shouted down accordingly.
In game chat channel is probably not the best place to ask "innocent" questions such as that, you just can't get the message across that you really want to know and are not just slamming the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I tried to look up some information from reputable psychologists or socialogists on this phenomena, but didn't really see anything. I think you're right that it's the same general mental process behind people supporting sports teams. I would be really interested in seeing how that works. I bet it figures a lot into politics as well. I know several very intelligent people, but they seem to throw their critical thinking skills out the window when you talk about some things.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Although I hate what WoW, and what WoW is, with a passion. Along with the fact that it corrupts the CRAP out of the industry with money leading them into more and more dumbed down genertic games. I still cannot call WoW a non-MMO. It quite simply has "enough" open world content & features to be called an MMO.
GuildWars is a little iffy on that as it was 99% instanced.
HOWEVER, what most anyone agrees on, that has even a quarter of a braincell, is that MANY games now are being advertised as MMOs when they easily ARE NOT. A couple examples:
Huxley "Online"
Global Agenda "Online"
World of Tanks "Online" <===I actually like this one, but it's a Cod5 for tanks...not an MMO even fi you add in the "Chess like" world domination map thingymajigger
etc...
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Don't worry those gamers are balanced out by the many 'I can't beleive someone likes a game I don't and will insult and spout my opinion repetitively at them constantly in any (semi)related thread to change their minds!' crowd.
See Ying and Yang in eternal dance of extremism!
These forums these days. People should really start growing thicker skin.
I mean, really. Some people were rude in their replies and suddenly the 'whole community' is bad or the worst ever seen? In the Rift section there's even a whole 'I am leaving' thread going on and on, just because someone took offense to some comments in the global chat, and suddenly these comments are extrapolated towards a whole server or even game community. What is this, are we still children to reason like this? I'd suspect that grown up people have better sense than that, else I'm seriously wondering how people are coping with real life or adversity or conflict situations in real life.
You will always have jack*sses in games, and yes, often they're the ones with the loudest voices. Accept it for a given, people like that will always be in games (or forums). But their presence is in no way indicative or exemplary for an entire community.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's why the saying goes: "Don't hate the player, hate the game."
I think it's okay to go ahead and hate the Dev's from time to time.... and John Smedley, too.
I think positng in these forums has givne me a thicker skin...peopel need ot come to the realization that ,especially on the internet,that if you can't handle negative responses then you shouldn't post your opinion in a public forum because chances are someone out there is gonna have a negative reaction to it or your gonna get trolled.If all your looking for is positve affirmation of your own opinion best to stick to small,private forum/channels.
Going to print that post/reply and put it up next to my whiteboard.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This happens with any addiction.
I been hearing it does take longer. if you played eq before they had "hell levels" where it took a while to move on. They got rid of those and spread out the exp required into other levels.
man i'm tempted to go play eq , played it for 7 years and joined during kunark
Just my thoughts, I have no way of knowing if this is right or not.
This seems like a defensive reaction. But I'm not sure it's entirely about the game itself. I think that's part of it, but I think there's also a social status thing at work here.
And Emergence, I think this social aspect ties in with your other post about the individual, as well.
See, what happens is someone says something that's perceived as negative. This is "their " game, but it's also the game where they have "their" social status. The first people to respond agressively are likely people on higher rungs of that social status, in that game. Those that "chime in" in support of them are those seeking social status by that support.
I think this because, while EQ1 is a game that can easily be perceived as threatened by failure, WoW is most definitely not. Yet you'll get the same sort of thing there. So it's not just the game, but something more. This is what makes sense to me.
And in that other post, you presented yourself as a threat to a top of the rung leader in a social sphere. They circled the wagons in response to you. See where I'm going with that?
Once upon a time....
For those of you who were looking for the basic psychology of this phenomena, its called social identity theory. Here is a wiki link that can explain it in greater detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_identity. (Not sure If ill get in trouble for posting a link, but I hope not!) None of us live in a void, we are shaped by what we particapte in, life! In all its myriad of facets, including mmos. The truth is if you want to understand the reasoning for these, seemingly unreasonable, reactions you have to understand the person. Each person has their unique reasons for identifying w/ a particular group. A tall order to be sure. Trying to hold some random gamer's hand in an attempt to empathize and understand, when they already believe you are the devil incarnate seems ridiculous even to me. I hope ppl reading this post look at the link, in order to understand the basic principle of differentiation between groups because in doing so maybe as a community we can put our personal biases aside and be better people for our efforts. This same phenomena is responsible for some of the worst fear and hatemongering in the history of humanity, and directly responsible for some of the most heinous atrocities throughout our history. If we can recognize this behavior in ourselves and in others, maybe we can go beyond our base instincts, and interact with each other in a more enlightened fashion. Can I get a bump on that?!
Related news: Francis-7 Demands Obama show his Lifejewel or report to Carousel.
Internet anonymity. People are very combative when there's 0% chance of... combat.
And folks seem to be taking on a black/white binary way of thinking, these days. "If X is false, then its opposite must be true.", etc. It's pretty sad.
Very interesting, I love it!
Thank you EVERYONE for your wonderful posts! This is perhaps one of the most interesting and positive threads void of conflict we have ever had this month! Hahaha
Excellent!
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.