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General: Stumbles of Console MMO Development
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
MMO development exclusively for or in conjunction with PC development is a relatively new phenomenon. It's not always gone as smoothly as developers might wish. In a new column today, MMORPG.com Lead Writer Bill Murphy takes a look at some of the Stumbles of Console MMO Development. Check it out and then leave us a thought or two in the comments below.
I don’t think it’s any secret these days that I enjoy the hell out of DC Universe Online. But I play the game on the PC, as I’ve not yet taken the plunge on a PS3. It’s obvious to me, and I’m sure to others, that while SOE has done an admirable job of straddling both PC and console design there are plenty of areas that things could have gone more smoothly. Arguing over whether MMOs even belong on consoles is a moot point. They’re happening, folks. They will continue to happen. The best advice I can give those who may be resistant of the idea is to get used to thought, realize you don’t have to play them and start thinking of some ways in which the console MMO can be made better.
Read more of Bill Murphy's Stumbles of Console MMO Development.
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Comments
of course they will continue... {Mod edit}
Multiplatform mmos fail since pc or console version will suck in comparison to the other...unless they have completely different controls, but who will pay that much money for 1 game with 2 different control types...
The inescapable fact remains that unless you give console players a hardcoded edge over their PC counterparts, they will always become victims waiting to happen for those of us using the far superior keyboard and mouse combination. A console controller will never be able to achieve the same level speed and accuracy as a keyboard and mouse, so I really don't see how combining the two platforms in an MMOFPS could ever work. You need to give console players a crutch to compete, which kind of throws out the whole notion fair play.
And then there's the whole issue of communication. Many people don't use headsets for a variety of reasons and prefer (or require) using a keyboard. How to do this on a console? Either through a ham-fisted typing interface or with an add-on keyboard. But in the case of the latter, if you have a keyboard on your console, aren't you just a step away from using a stripped down PC anyway?
I can see it working when all targetting can be locked on, but not when it relies on a player's own reflexes to line up a shot and fire. So either they make it easier for console gamers to keep up with PC players, or they make the whole game easier for everyone, thus creating a level playing field. This might also be known as 'dumbing down' the game.
Either way, it's not the type of game I'd be interested in being involved with. I guess it's a nice idea, this grand unified theory of platforms. More players, more money for development = good for everyone. But I don't see it happening without shoehorning one platform's mechanics into another, and creating a really lousy fit.
Why not just stick to racing games? Those work perfectly well across platforms.
I can use a keyboard and mouse on my consoles. Or do you guys not know that they have USB ports on them? I don't know if anyone else has noticed that the MMO worlds are getting more and more quite due to the use of Vent, Teamspeak, and Mumble. Most players don't like to type while trying to control their characters. Why arn't these developers intigrating some sort of Dragon-esq software to turn speach to text? Or better yet start to implement global voice chat. Dolby already has a product out made just for that and it's ready to go.
My theme song.
1. You also have to consider that when you make a console mmo , it is for console players. Which means console players do not like monthly fees.
2. Community is a big part of any mmo and the PS3 console is build more for the solo player while the Xbox 360 is more of a social community.
3. Console mmos need to be build specifically for the console, a port from pc to console is just a horrible soloution.
Nothing we didn't know already. Meh. :P
In response to his third last line: I want DUST not to suck by only being on console, so I can play it on my PC with a decent control system and -proper- FPS reaction times. :P
'cause it doesn't matter how many times my brother or cousin have me playing various console FPSs: they all suck, horribly, compared to their PC equivalents (if they have one).
(I'll stick to using my consoles for platformers, arcade games, Rock Band and the like ;P)
I own all 3 current consoles and I play more multy player games and socialise far more on the PS3 and the Wii than the Xbox 360. I don't know where your getting this PS3 is solo focused stuff.
My theme song.
PC's have always being better than consoles in every aspect. I think within the next ten years consoles will most likely become obsolete. Simply because PC's are now getting lighter, more powerful, more versatile and more cheaper.
And to top it all, even some mobile phones will soon be able to out pace a console. So in conclusion, the future is looking bleak for the consoles owners of this world.
It's a bit of a shame really, but I guess that's progress.
As a DCUO-PS3 player, mostly all spot on. The PS3 version isn't as shiny as the PC, but a few more friends who'd recently decided to stop the loot-treadmill that is maintaining a good gaming-rig PC all dove right in with few complaints.
Yes, console MMO's aren't close to the PC performance currently, but consoles haven't been getting that much development attention for MMOs yet.
I'm really excited to see what Undead Labs is going to bring to the table. A heavily action-based, zombie MMO fully built around and for the console has a lot of promise to me.
Consoles will have MMOs soon enough.
As for console players not liking sub-fees, I remember not to long ago when it was damned well unhead of for a company to charge me a monthly-fee to play their game over my dial-up account which I already pay for.
PC players feigned the same outrage a decade ago, the companys have learned it was all a bluff.
Also, if a game is built 100% just for a console, it gets the nice benefits a console offers, like standardized interface and hardware. If everyone is playing on a Xbox360, then everyone is rigged to handle the same specs outside of storage space, and everyone has the same default controller.
PC's still have to account for the 10-15 new variants of video cards released each year, along with god knows how many previous existing ones. Then add sound cards, general RAM setups, OS configurations, even KB+M performance can vary.
PC on PC players, a 5700dpi-mouse user will a hardware-advantage over a 3000dpi-mouse user.
Negating hardware advantage is good, leads to a better actual-skill driven system instead of a "I'm prob as good as you, but because I can afford a higher-end PC I get to be better than you" outcome.
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
I always found it funny that there were tons of people always saying how consoles can't do something, or that Console gamers are a dying breed, or any number of asinine points in regards to console gaming and Console MMOs.
Some interesting points in regards to Console MMOs. Phantasy Star Universe for example, a very good MMO that wasn't exactly acclaimed on the PC did very well on the Xbox, and still has servers running for that platform. They charge a monthly fee.
FFXI had the majority of its players on Console, it also required a monthly fee. DCUO's Console sales were higher than the PC sales in terms of overall numbers (even though the PC was cheaper, and in some cases, much, much cheaper, I got my copy for 35 dollars on D2D).
Console UI is often times broken down to make it simple and intuitive for the controller, but it isn't always necessary to do that. Free pointers have been used in console games as far back as the SNES for RTS titles and things of that nature. No, you won't be able to click your little skill boxes, but thats where controllers excel in RPGs and action based titles. Clicking skills feels more natural because you aren't clicking or tapping 1 - 9 etc. These buttons are all in much closer proximity and the controllers were formed that way for ease of execution. You can also have well over 30 skills mapped to a controllers buttons. Not as much as a keyboard of course, but more than enough for any MMO.
I've played consoles for most of my life, but I play most of my games on the PC now unless there are exclusive titles I just can't get anywhere else, (like Gears of War 3). Most consolve vs. PC titles, the PC will usually win in terms of graphical and performance issues, and the additional mods you can get for games like Fallout or TES makes it worth it. However, if there was a console ONLY MMO I was interested in, I would definitely play it.
Consoles can provide just as much, if not more fun that my PC can, and in the end thats all that matters.
Now I have to disagree with you, Haegemon. I don't know many cases, where bigger investment in PC hardware would have allowed one to play better. A lot of the newer mouses have a variety of technical problems. Seriously, if you read up on them a lot on the dedicated forums, you'll find out that most of them have rediculous problems, that have't been in simpler mouses for years. I tried to buy a gaming mouse a while ago, and I came to the conculsion, that best fit for me was 10 years old model, that some pro gamers use and doesn't cost anything. High DPI is just marketing BS, that's all. Mechanical keyboards are nice, but I don't think they offer any major advantages for games, unless it's hardcore RTS gamers in question, who are are in completely different level of gaming, than any console gamer or average PC gamer. So for about 40 euros you have pretty much the best set of controllers for most games, unless you need arcade stick, joystick or whatever. Add 10-15 euro for gaming mouse mat. Anything more expensive, than that is only very marginal upgrade, and an attempt to rob your monies. Xbox controller costs 40 euros.
Cheap TN panel monitors have the best reponse times, which is pretty much only thing you want to look for in a professional level gaming gear, and it was only a problem some years ago, when TFT weren't so popular and the specs were worse. Perhaps the new 120Hz tehcnology provides some advantages, I don't know, again only very marginal. Those are currently only in cheap TN panels, so aren't much more expensive.
Components have very little to do with limiting your gaming ability. In fact, you'd want to get rid of all post processing effects, shadows and so on, if you want to play as efficiently as possible. Of course minium requirements have to be met and viewing distance should be possible to put at max and so on, but that shjouldn't be much of a problem. There's a lot of few months old, used graphics cards being sold all the time for half the price of a new one. Customer buying new cards are often deceived into buying something overpiced and unnecessary.
I consider myself quite dedicated and experienced PC gamer, although not "hardcore". I have 10 euro keyboard, 15 euro mouse, 20 euro mouse mat, cheap TN monitor and over 3 years old rig, which is chose budget components for back then, and it's serving me absolutely fine, although of course the reqs for newest games may be hard to meet, but Civ5 and SC2 worked fine.
E: In fact, console players have bigger disparity between them, as there's (to my understanding) keyboard & mouse players too, who are superior who have superior tools compared to gamepad players in FPS games, for example. I'm not exactly sure does keyboard and mouse work in most console games though?
You do realize that console gaming has been around alot longer than pc gaming. Sure, the pc is a more powerful platform with better graphics but consoles are a more stable platform. Developers just need to stop thinking they can just port a pc mmo to a console. Developers need to build a console from the ground up specifically for consoles.
What I don't understand about these crossover MMOs is why the PC version has to play like the Console version? Are they too lazy to produce control and UI schemes seperately? Everyone is always worried that PC gamers will get the upper hand, yet it's okay for Console gamers to currently get the uppper hand due to crappy control / ui designs on the PC side? Why continue making hybrid MMOs that don't seem to even remotely compete with their single platform counterparts?
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Just 2 months ago, I would have called you crazy if you told me I would play an MMO on a console. Today I play DCUO, and not only do I prefer the faster gameplay to the typical PC MMO tropes I played for 15 years, I actually liked the ease of playing it on the PS3.
DCUO showed one thing very clearly: the MMO genre is not bound to the PC platform by definition. Some attempts to bring it over failed, when they tried to port a PC game (with a PC interface) without regard for the usability. But if the game is developed around the characteristics of a controller, it works perfectly.
The next challenge will be improve comunication, though I have to say it's kind of nice to not read Chuck Norris jokes and 1337 speak all the time.
Those that think the controllers are an issue for consoles, I have to disagree. No offense, but I've had no problem playing many RPG's with many many combinations of skillsets, inventories, and hotkeys - and I'm old. I can't imagine what a twenty-something kid could pull off. I played Dragon Age through without ever pausing. Played Oblivion the same way too, as did my wife. (Yes, she solved it and I gave up.
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I think that the second the MMO community hears streamline they somehow think it's bad. It's not. A streamlined skillset and power structure is what MMO's need. It is in this infrastructural change, that we can get back to professions being unique, and not vague blends of each other. Just something to think about.
Several mmorpgs are coming to the ps3 (where are the xbox mmorpgs? Oh, m$oft would rather buy rights to a current mog than help develop a new one. I wouldn't be suprised to see wow on the 360 eventually). I expect this trend to continue and I for one, am glad to see it.
Consoles have far less headaches and people appreciate that. No new hardware to buy every six months. No driver conflicts (hell no drivers to download anyway). No worries if a new game will play on a console. No mysterious freezes due to problem X (I wonder if that new program I downloaded is interrupting my gameplay). No worries at all. Console games play 99% of the time with no problems but many of you will give up all that peace of mind just to turn your toon a little faster or have a zillion options at a keystroke with a mouse and keyboard.
If given an option I'd guess dev studios would rather create mmorpgs for consoles due to the larger audience and potential profit. Fallout 3 for pc I assume sold far less than the console version. Mass effect for pc I assume sold far less than the console version. List any other game developed for pc and consoles and I'd say the console version sold far more.
I love gaming on my pc and plan to buy new hardware for it (for the price of upgrading I could buy a wii, 360 and ps3) but I'm also excited to see mmorpgs come to consoles and hope the trend continues.
Pc gaming was and always will be a hobbyists venture.
X-Box will get one of the most interesting MMOs... The yet unnamed zombie game by Zombie labs (with lead designer Jeff Strain, lead designer on Diablo, Warcraft 3, GW 1, GW2 for half the time and who got the idea for Wow and were the lead designer for it the first 2 years it was in development).
It is actually the only MMO I can think to play on a console, Strain is a visionary.
My take is to keep the consoles and PC crowd separate. Stop trying to marry them. I have a PS3 but hardly play it except for Blu-Ray and very few games. I think I like my PC because it can be my baby that grows with me. I can upgrade it anytime. I think I iwll always be happy playing MMOs on my PC. I agree with Lazarus71 that it is up to the devs to make console MMOs succeed,not magic or some joining of the masses of the PC and Console world.
I admit consoles have been around for gaming a lot longer than PC's. But it not the PC's that are a threat to consoles, it the humble mobile phone. Have you ever wondered why Sony and other company's have added console functions to mobile phones?
It's because they know they're the real threat. Let's face it, why buy a console for $250, when you can buy a mobile phone for $250, which can do a lot more and is fully portable. The owner can take it anywhere. The only problem they've got is the screen size. Which is cured by linking it to a regular flat panel television.
Consoles where never in the same league as PC's, because of the price tag and complexity. But mobile phones are owned by at least half of the words population. If anything is going to make consoles extinct. It will be the mobile phone.
The mobile phone is just as much if not more of a competitor to the PC as it is to a gaming console. Its kind of a silly comparison. As nintendo still runs the mobile console market, its likely they'll continue to do so while games like Pokemon are exclusive titles (unless, of course, you're an android fan and use an emulator, but you won't find a 3DS emulator anytime soon).
Not to mention with the way consoles have been moving, with more gimmicks, and physical interoperability like the Wii, the Move, and Kinect, there will still be a market for these kind of consoles and peripherals for many years to come. Mostly though, its exclusive titles that will keep people buying and playing consoles, thats the way its always been.
I think FFXI did an ok job. I played it both on xbox and pc. It felt more natural on the xbox, but with the pc it wasn't as bad as many say. The UI had pull down menus that worked by not even using the mouse. I think MMOs won't do very well on a console, because I hook my computer upto my 65" and it becomes a console as well, it's just better equipped, better graphics, better sound...better everything except price.
Count me in on not understanding why we have consoles and PCs. Sure, I've owned the NES, SNES, Sega, PS, Xbox, and now XBOX 360, but I almost have played solely on the PC. The graphics are better, and they are far more versatile, thus giving more bang for the buck. And, of course, there is no surfing for porn on consoles.
Are we gonna see consoles take over PCs? I doubt it. Otherwise, they'd be a PC. Now, obviously a lot of people enjoy the consoles. They are conspicous, lightweight, never need upgraded, and there are far more games to play on the consoles.
The wii controller is really a mouse and controller in one, and is the controller of the future. Especially if consoles want to have more interactive UIs.
See the problem I have with this thinking is, it's not a new attempt and so far none of them have worked as well as everyone expected. Phantasy Star Online and Final Fantasy were both consol mmo's, they both didn't catch on. DCUO is another one to add to the list, and there is no way to say for certain it will catch on as well as people think or seem to hope. The end is simple, consols can't do what a pc can so the games will continue to be dumbed down. User created content will continue to be something that is not practical on them. And custimization is not something you can get in there and do to things like the UI, or character apperances like on other games.
The consol is the board game of the univers while the pc will always be pen and paper/lego build your own castle game. They are designed to do more than the consols and always will. While I am sure we will see more consol mmo's, I have a feeling the next few will lead to a split forming a new CMMO genre while mmo's stay their own course being as complex as they are now. The Consol Massive Multiplayer Online games will move forward being bare bones, simplistic, and lacking the structure of a normal mmo. It will not detract from how fun they can be, but they will not be all that the pc versions are.
As to the mouse keyboard edge thing, I guess he is meaning a keyboard has over one hundred keys, all of which can be macroed into alt+, ctrl+, and other key stroke combos to make them something else, as well as the insanly huge mice now with all those buttons. Consols, you got fourteen buttons.
A good example of why you don't make MMO's for both PC and consoles is DCUO. The UI and chat interface is horrible.
Problem with consoles, the producers need time to recoup their loses when they introduce them so that leads to long run times for them. The xbox and PS3 are using technology that is about 10 years behind times. All the console makers are not looking to introduce new ones until 2014 at the earliest and probably won't be until 2015.
The PC is in constant change, gamers have no issue with adding the newer technologies to their units.
Agreed consoles have the ability to add keyboards and mice, but most of them don't, hence they are at a disadvantage when playing against a PC player.
As to chat, console players use mikes, they just don't bother to type. That is ok, but this comment really cracked me up:
"Or better yet start to implement global voice chat. "
Try raiding sometime with a mere 25 people sometime, it will give you a great reason why global voice just will not work. Even our 40 man raids in the old Wow had to use multple communication channels.
Games should be made for either one or the other platform, multiplatform games are a recipe for mediocrity .