XIV was supposed to be the first, but we all know what happened there. DCUO then took the title of first MMORPG on the PS3 and for the most part, not too bad of a job (if you consider that it's done by SOE).
The one I'll mainly be waiting for is PSO2. Lets see if SEGA, the ones to start the console MMO play, learned something and can add onto the greatness that was PSO.
You forgot to mention FFXI and Phantasy Star Uninverse (now only available for XBOX 360.) FFXI was one of if not the first mmorpg's designed for a console, the playstation 2. It still is running healthily today and plays rather well on a PC, but you need to be using a USB controller; also available for XBOX 360.
I must agree that MMOs are better in Consoles, i played DCUO a while back ago, and i enjoyed all the controls, while it is a bit troublesome if you dont have a keyboard to type, but that isn't a big problem at all
What is a console? Sounds like silly nonsense to me.....
I think its a childs toy. I really dont know. My 3 yr old has his own PC and knows how to turn it on, wait for it to boot, choose and put in whatever game or dvd he wishes. Then he either plays the dvd or loads whatever game he wants. He has been using the PC for over a year. I set him up on my old win xp machine because I didnt want him messing up my wifes or my PCs.
I really could care less aboout DCUO and will probably never play it unless they offer a free trial. I really dont care for DC comics. Everyone knows all the best heroes villians and other comic lore is from Marval anyway. And I find it really strange that the population on CoX increased big time ever since DCUO came out. I know this because I just reupped my Wifes year sub on CoX.
Console gamers are used to buying a game, playing it for a bit then putting it on the shelf, or borowinging it to a friend... or renting it from block busters, they dont expect to have to subscribe, have to chat to people, customise their UI, they dont even expect to have to wait for patches and updates to correct bugs and performance.
Its not just about UI, community and expansions its a completly different gameplay attitude that console users just arnt used to. To me they are never going to see the success of a PC Based MMO.
In the Case of DC, I rather suspect they would have made much more of a success if they just focus'ed on it being PC based.
hardware superiority of pcs taken aside, since this is not the issue here
As long as console gameplay is tailored to the stultifying limitations of a game controller, i will not have a console and not play a cross-platform game with the same limitations. If a console game would FULLY support a m+k-interface at the level of pc-games, THEN it would be worth a consideration. but how many console games are out there that do so? and how do they deal with the imbalance coming from these interfaces for competitive games?
apart from that, the evolution of mmos during their lifecycle after release is vastly limited for consoles. DAoC for example came with a new graphics engine and updated graphics in an expansion some years after release. WoW's new zones and races in Dark Crusade had more polygons as well (the same might be true for the later expansions, but i did not play them). you couldn't do that on a console game, since it would throw out all your customers that own the then outdated consoles. so basically you would have a mmo that changes little after release. that is contrary to the expectations of common mmo-players who want an evolving game world.
there have been just as many prophecies for the death of consoles as well as for pc and all were wrong. even if consoles might take over more and more market shares for single player games, complex online games will stay a niche on the pc segment, since the prime argument of the industry, namely piracy, does not apply to these type of games. and as long as consoles keep their restrictions regarding input devices, people who like to use both their brain hemispheres in their gaming sessions, will stick to pcs. even if the big fishes in the industry will completely neglect the pc, others will take over. which might not even be such a bad thing after all.
and if there are sole mmos for consoles, why should i care? it's another market segment that is of no interest to me. just the better, it keeps the kiddies off my games, so get those console games rolling out! with tens of millions of mmo players the market is big enough to have lot's of niche games that are successful.
sorry for the arrogance, but whenever i came in touch with any console games i felt it's just not the thing for me, i detest trivial arcade games and others, like fps, felt like you are a handicapped person with one hand bound to the back compared to the pc versions (controller issue again)
I'm against console games for the same reason I'm against anything else too proprietary (can you say "Apple"?); I don't want my options limited if I can help it. Consoles limit the games you can play and how you can interact with them. They limit the quality of those games.
That's not to say console games are bad - obviously, there are a ton of great games out there that are played on consoles. What I'm saying is, we would all be better off if consoles had never made it passed the rinky-dink stage, and those games had been developed for PCs. They would, in the end, be better than they are, and we would be able to enjoy more of them without being limited to platform or buying multiple machines for hundreds of dollars apiece.
If MMO console play is a "given", then I hope the publishers have the sense to put it on different servers rather than dumb down the game because they don't want to burden console users with keyboards, or what have you. Frankly, I've had about all the dumbing-down I can stand. Sometimes I think if I see one more exclamation point over a quest-giver's head I'm going to quit altogether or just go back to Asheron's Call, I don't care whether I can play a Hunter or Shaman or not.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I personally dont see a problem with MMO coming out on consoles. I really think thats what keeping FF11 alive. I think it opens a larger player base for mmos. The only problem i see with console mmo is the controller. I think mmo play better on keyboard and this day and age you should be able to type. But as far as mem or graphics the ps3 and 360 can handle pretty much anything.
Some of my best memories is playing PSO for the Dreamcast. I am not against playing MMO's on a console at all, I am even thinking of not buying a new pc but instead the PS3, heck then I can can get the PSmove to get moving, some rpg'sand even an mmo! :P
Some of my best memories is playing PSO for the Dreamcast. I am not against playing MMO's on a console at all, I am even thinking of not buying a new pc but instead the PS3, heck then I can can get the PSmove to get moving, some rpg'sand even an mmo! :P
I played DCUO on my PC but with a controller and i loved it! I'd say it's how they set up the controlls. The consoles have the potential to do great things, as we have seen in many games. Unfortunitly for the gamming industry there will always be PC and console gamers. I'm a PC gamer and would rather use it then anything else.
As far as I'm concerned the stumbles of console development have more of an impact on the PC market. Many recent MMO's have been shallow, heavily instanced and have gimped UI's because they were developed with an eye towards a console ver. Personally I don't care if they release stuff for consoles, but its a bit annoying when they ruin the PC ver to do so.
I played DCUO on my PC but with a controller and i loved it! I'd say it's how they set up the controlls. The consoles have the potential to do great things, as we have seen in many games. Unfortunitly for the gamming industry there will always be PC and console gamers. I'm a PC gamer and would rather use it then anything else.
Then there are those of us that game on both PC and the console.
PC's have always being better than consoles in every aspect. I think within the next ten years consoles will most likely become obsolete. Simply because PC's are now getting lighter, more powerful, more versatile and more cheaper.
And to top it all, even some mobile phones will soon be able to out pace a console. So in conclusion, the future is looking bleak for the consoles owners of this world.
It's a bit of a shame really, but I guess that's progress.
You do realize that console gaming has been around alot longer than pc gaming. Sure, the pc is a more powerful platform with better graphics but consoles are a more stable platform. Developers just need to stop thinking they can just port a pc mmo to a console. Developers need to build a console from the ground up specifically for consoles.
I admit consoles have been around for gaming a lot longer than PC's. But it not the PC's that are a threat to consoles, it the humble mobile phone. Have you ever wondered why Sony and other company's have added console functions to mobile phones?
It's because they know they're the real threat. Let's face it, why buy a console for $250, when you can buy a mobile phone for $250, which can do a lot more and is fully portable. The owner can take it anywhere. The only problem they've got is the screen size. Which is cured by linking it to a regular flat panel television.
Consoles where never in the same league as PC's, because of the price tag and complexity. But mobile phones are owned by at least half of the words population. If anything is going to make consoles extinct.It will be the mobile phone.
The mobile phone is just as much if not more of a competitor to the PC as it is to a gaming console. Its kind of a silly comparison. As nintendo still runs the mobile console market, its likely they'll continue to do so while games like Pokemon are exclusive titles (unless, of course, you're an android fan and use an emulator, but you won't find a 3DS emulator anytime soon).
Not to mention with the way consoles have been moving, with more gimmicks, and physical interoperability like the Wii, the Move, and Kinect, there will still be a market for these kind of consoles and peripherals for many years to come. Mostly though, its exclusive titles that will keep people buying and playing consoles, thats the way its always been.
I wouldn't say so, because there's always going to be a need for the PC in one shape or another.
It also makes sense for the current console makers to go into the mobile market because it's huge, It won't be this year, may not even be next year. But I think it's a natural progression to combine consoles into mobile phones.
As for physical interoperability like the Wii, the Move, and Kinect, there’s nothing stopping these things from been added to a mobile phone or even a PC. So that won't save then for long.
Some of my best memories is playing PSO for the Dreamcast. I am not against playing MMO's on a console at all, I am even thinking of not buying a new pc but instead the PS3, heck then I can can get the PSmove to get moving, some rpg'sand even an mmo! :P
PSO from Sonic Team - SEGA on Dreamcast was great ive played it for a year on Dreamcast, but im still way more in favor of a PC with constrols amd grafhics wise then console all tho all games are stuck at dx9.0c for consoles and PC games are losing:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Some of my best memories is playing PSO for the Dreamcast. I am not against playing MMO's on a console at all, I am even thinking of not buying a new pc but instead the PS3, heck then I can can get the PSmove to get moving, some rpg'sand even an mmo! :P
PSO from Sonic Team - SEGA on Dreamcast was great ive played it for a year on Dreamcast, but im still way more in favor of a PC with constrols amd grafhics wise then console all tho all games are stuck at dx9.0c for consoles and PC games are losing:(
Stuck at dx9.0c until the next gen comes. Then they will be useing what ever the current dx is at the time...
lol me i dont care you still pay month fees for xbox 360s online service so your not escaping monthly fees. 2 pcs way better then consles dont have to go send it to fix i fix it myself . pcs last longer then consle,s if build right. And i been building pcs for over 20 years so.... i dont see what this depate is about ..... i like them both :P
Console games and PC games should not mix. Consoles are fine for some people, I suppose, but they have a limiting influence when used with PCs. PCs improve their technology faster than console could or the companies would even want to release new versions. You can do more with PCs, and you can do it all better. Consoles are right now holding back the progress of gaming in general, not just with MMOs, and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The inescapable fact remains that unless you give console players a hardcoded edge over their PC counterparts, they will always become victims waiting to happen for those of us using the far superior keyboard and mouse combination. A console controller will never be able to achieve the same level speed and accuracy as a keyboard and mouse, so I really don't see how combining the two platforms in an MMOFPS could ever work. You need to give console players a crutch to compete, which kind of throws out the whole notion fair play.
And then there's the whole issue of communication. Many people don't use headsets for a variety of reasons and prefer (or require) using a keyboard. How to do this on a console? Either through a ham-fisted typing interface or with an add-on keyboard. But in the case of the latter, if you have a keyboard on your console, aren't you just a step away from using a stripped down PC anyway?
I can see it working when all targetting can be locked on, but not when it relies on a player's own reflexes to line up a shot and fire. So either they make it easier for console gamers to keep up with PC players, or they make the whole game easier for everyone, thus creating a level playing field. This might also be known as 'dumbing down' the game.
Either way, it's not the type of game I'd be interested in being involved with. I guess it's a nice idea, this grand unified theory of platforms. More players, more money for development = good for everyone. But I don't see it happening without shoehorning one platform's mechanics into another, and creating a really lousy fit.
Why not just stick to racing games? Those work perfectly well across platforms.
My thoughts exactly. I don't see any side benefitting from such a merge of apples and oranges.
As PC gamer I can only say: keep the heck any console stuff FAR away from my games! This entire flirting with consoles bogged down PC games for years, making them all easier, more streamlined, less complex. NO THANKS!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I had Beta for DCUO on both systems and even tho most of my online games are PC I thought DCUO was better for PS3. I perffer a keyboard over controller but for DCUO it was more smooth with a controller then a keyboard and mouse. Don't get me wrong they both were nicely done. And I also had Everquest Online Adventures for PS2 and It was rough. I gave up on it 3 month in. I would like to see more for MMO's for Platforms but they have to be set up right and come with a special attachment. But that's just my opinion.
Unlike most genres you can't buy pre-made engines There is a few engines that sell themselves as that but anybody with experience in making a complex project with them can attest to it doesn't really work. as an example the only game that I know that didn't use an inhouse engine was dc universe but in my opinion they made a really bad choice. For all the beauty of the Unreal engine it is not meant for an mmo it is simply not powerful enough to handle a persistant online world. Can they make it work? sure but it'll involve making alot of work arounds to get around the short comings of the engine.
Lineage 2 was built using the Unreal engine. It is (or was) a completely persistant online world with zero instances. I'm sure they've added instancing since but that really isn't the issue. It has been done and to great success, in using a non-inhouse engine to make a successful MMORPG. There are countless other MMORPG's that were done with other engines, many of them used Unreal however.
Having worked with the Unreal engine in a AAA game studio recently, I can tell you that the persistant world streaming that occurs on pc is based on an invisible sphere that envelops the player. That sphere dictates which assets will swap from low res to high rez or even be drawn or screen or not at all. LOD BIAS. This particular way or standard way rather of streaming in games would be increasingly hard to pull off in consoles. However I am a strong believer that as consoles become more and more powerful, (sure not as powerful as PC as they can't be upgraded by majority) the MMO development will be more and more feasible.
Definitely the Unreal Engine is the nr1 choice for any BIG MMO to stream well, be light enough to play smoothly and have enough support from EPIC to adjust the engine for an online console mmo.
I believe that after DCUO which I have tried, (being an ex-brutally hardcore WOW/DAOC/MMO player) will paint the path for many other console MMO's, that will be more complex and more advanced...
I played Phantasy Star ONline on Dreamcast and a phone cord. It was actually really fun!!!
Everquest Online Adventures on PS2 was more 'hardcore' grinding and dragon camping than WoW.
Using a KB and controller isn't so bad. Most raiding in WoW relies on headset communication. I really don't need to see trade chat and zone chat since it's mostly spam and gold sellers.
Comments
XIV was supposed to be the first, but we all know what happened there. DCUO then took the title of first MMORPG on the PS3 and for the most part, not too bad of a job (if you consider that it's done by SOE).
The one I'll mainly be waiting for is PSO2. Lets see if SEGA, the ones to start the console MMO play, learned something and can add onto the greatness that was PSO.
You forgot to mention FFXI and Phantasy Star Uninverse (now only available for XBOX 360.) FFXI was one of if not the first mmorpg's designed for a console, the playstation 2. It still is running healthily today and plays rather well on a PC, but you need to be using a USB controller; also available for XBOX 360.
I must agree that MMOs are better in Consoles, i played DCUO a while back ago, and i enjoyed all the controls, while it is a bit troublesome if you dont have a keyboard to type, but that isn't a big problem at all
So What Now?
I think its a childs toy. I really dont know. My 3 yr old has his own PC and knows how to turn it on, wait for it to boot, choose and put in whatever game or dvd he wishes. Then he either plays the dvd or loads whatever game he wants. He has been using the PC for over a year. I set him up on my old win xp machine because I didnt want him messing up my wifes or my PCs.
I really could care less aboout DCUO and will probably never play it unless they offer a free trial. I really dont care for DC comics. Everyone knows all the best heroes villians and other comic lore is from Marval anyway. And I find it really strange that the population on CoX increased big time ever since DCUO came out. I know this because I just reupped my Wifes year sub on CoX.
Stan Lee RULES!!!!
this article was like :
first person : We are sinking ! We are sinking !
2nd person : What are you "thinking" about?
Which FF Character Are You?
Console gamers are used to buying a game, playing it for a bit then putting it on the shelf, or borowinging it to a friend... or renting it from block busters, they dont expect to have to subscribe, have to chat to people, customise their UI, they dont even expect to have to wait for patches and updates to correct bugs and performance.
Its not just about UI, community and expansions its a completly different gameplay attitude that console users just arnt used to. To me they are never going to see the success of a PC Based MMO.
In the Case of DC, I rather suspect they would have made much more of a success if they just focus'ed on it being PC based.
hardware superiority of pcs taken aside, since this is not the issue here
As long as console gameplay is tailored to the stultifying limitations of a game controller, i will not have a console and not play a cross-platform game with the same limitations. If a console game would FULLY support a m+k-interface at the level of pc-games, THEN it would be worth a consideration. but how many console games are out there that do so? and how do they deal with the imbalance coming from these interfaces for competitive games?
apart from that, the evolution of mmos during their lifecycle after release is vastly limited for consoles. DAoC for example came with a new graphics engine and updated graphics in an expansion some years after release. WoW's new zones and races in Dark Crusade had more polygons as well (the same might be true for the later expansions, but i did not play them). you couldn't do that on a console game, since it would throw out all your customers that own the then outdated consoles. so basically you would have a mmo that changes little after release. that is contrary to the expectations of common mmo-players who want an evolving game world.
there have been just as many prophecies for the death of consoles as well as for pc and all were wrong. even if consoles might take over more and more market shares for single player games, complex online games will stay a niche on the pc segment, since the prime argument of the industry, namely piracy, does not apply to these type of games. and as long as consoles keep their restrictions regarding input devices, people who like to use both their brain hemispheres in their gaming sessions, will stick to pcs. even if the big fishes in the industry will completely neglect the pc, others will take over. which might not even be such a bad thing after all.
and if there are sole mmos for consoles, why should i care? it's another market segment that is of no interest to me. just the better, it keeps the kiddies off my games, so get those console games rolling out! with tens of millions of mmo players the market is big enough to have lot's of niche games that are successful.
sorry for the arrogance, but whenever i came in touch with any console games i felt it's just not the thing for me, i detest trivial arcade games and others, like fps, felt like you are a handicapped person with one hand bound to the back compared to the pc versions (controller issue again)
I'm against console games for the same reason I'm against anything else too proprietary (can you say "Apple"?); I don't want my options limited if I can help it. Consoles limit the games you can play and how you can interact with them. They limit the quality of those games.
That's not to say console games are bad - obviously, there are a ton of great games out there that are played on consoles. What I'm saying is, we would all be better off if consoles had never made it passed the rinky-dink stage, and those games had been developed for PCs. They would, in the end, be better than they are, and we would be able to enjoy more of them without being limited to platform or buying multiple machines for hundreds of dollars apiece.
If MMO console play is a "given", then I hope the publishers have the sense to put it on different servers rather than dumb down the game because they don't want to burden console users with keyboards, or what have you. Frankly, I've had about all the dumbing-down I can stand. Sometimes I think if I see one more exclamation point over a quest-giver's head I'm going to quit altogether or just go back to Asheron's Call, I don't care whether I can play a Hunter or Shaman or not.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I personally dont see a problem with MMO coming out on consoles. I really think thats what keeping FF11 alive. I think it opens a larger player base for mmos. The only problem i see with console mmo is the controller. I think mmo play better on keyboard and this day and age you should be able to type. But as far as mem or graphics the ps3 and 360 can handle pretty much anything.
Edgar F Greenwood
Some of my best memories is playing PSO for the Dreamcast. I am not against playing MMO's on a console at all, I am even thinking of not buying a new pc but instead the PS3, heck then I can can get the PSmove to get moving, some rpg'sand even an mmo! :P
Sorcery for the ps3.
My theme song.
I played DCUO on my PC but with a controller and i loved it! I'd say it's how they set up the controlls. The consoles have the potential to do great things, as we have seen in many games. Unfortunitly for the gamming industry there will always be PC and console gamers. I'm a PC gamer and would rather use it then anything else.
As far as I'm concerned the stumbles of console development have more of an impact on the PC market. Many recent MMO's have been shallow, heavily instanced and have gimped UI's because they were developed with an eye towards a console ver. Personally I don't care if they release stuff for consoles, but its a bit annoying when they ruin the PC ver to do so.
Then there are those of us that game on both PC and the console.
My theme song.
I wouldn't say so, because there's always going to be a need for the PC in one shape or another.
It also makes sense for the current console makers to go into the mobile market because it's huge, It won't be this year, may not even be next year. But I think it's a natural progression to combine consoles into mobile phones.
As for physical interoperability like the Wii, the Move, and Kinect, there’s nothing stopping these things from been added to a mobile phone or even a PC. So that won't save then for long.
PSO from Sonic Team - SEGA on Dreamcast was great ive played it for a year on Dreamcast, but im still way more in favor of a PC with constrols amd grafhics wise then console all tho all games are stuck at dx9.0c for consoles and PC games are losing:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Stuck at dx9.0c until the next gen comes. Then they will be useing what ever the current dx is at the time...
My theme song.
lol me i dont care you still pay month fees for xbox 360s online service so your not escaping monthly fees. 2 pcs way better then consles dont have to go send it to fix i fix it myself . pcs last longer then consle,s if build right. And i been building pcs for over 20 years so.... i dont see what this depate is about ..... i like them both :P
.....
Console games and PC games should not mix. Consoles are fine for some people, I suppose, but they have a limiting influence when used with PCs. PCs improve their technology faster than console could or the companies would even want to release new versions. You can do more with PCs, and you can do it all better. Consoles are right now holding back the progress of gaming in general, not just with MMOs, and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
My thoughts exactly. I don't see any side benefitting from such a merge of apples and oranges.
As PC gamer I can only say: keep the heck any console stuff FAR away from my games! This entire flirting with consoles bogged down PC games for years, making them all easier, more streamlined, less complex. NO THANKS!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I had Beta for DCUO on both systems and even tho most of my online games are PC I thought DCUO was better for PS3. I perffer a keyboard over controller but for DCUO it was more smooth with a controller then a keyboard and mouse. Don't get me wrong they both were nicely done. And I also had Everquest Online Adventures for PS2 and It was rough. I gave up on it 3 month in. I would like to see more for MMO's for Platforms but they have to be set up right and come with a special attachment. But that's just my opinion.
Lineage 2 was built using the Unreal engine. It is (or was) a completely persistant online world with zero instances. I'm sure they've added instancing since but that really isn't the issue. It has been done and to great success, in using a non-inhouse engine to make a successful MMORPG. There are countless other MMORPG's that were done with other engines, many of them used Unreal however.
Having worked with the Unreal engine in a AAA game studio recently, I can tell you that the persistant world streaming that occurs on pc is based on an invisible sphere that envelops the player. That sphere dictates which assets will swap from low res to high rez or even be drawn or screen or not at all. LOD BIAS. This particular way or standard way rather of streaming in games would be increasingly hard to pull off in consoles. However I am a strong believer that as consoles become more and more powerful, (sure not as powerful as PC as they can't be upgraded by majority) the MMO development will be more and more feasible.
Definitely the Unreal Engine is the nr1 choice for any BIG MMO to stream well, be light enough to play smoothly and have enough support from EPIC to adjust the engine for an online console mmo.
I believe that after DCUO which I have tried, (being an ex-brutally hardcore WOW/DAOC/MMO player) will paint the path for many other console MMO's, that will be more complex and more advanced...
We can only hope
Games Developer / Game Trailer Director
I forgot to mention I have all consoles besides Wii and I am primarily a PC gamer. I know both sides of the coin.
Games Developer / Game Trailer Director
I played Phantasy Star ONline on Dreamcast and a phone cord. It was actually really fun!!!
Everquest Online Adventures on PS2 was more 'hardcore' grinding and dragon camping than WoW.
Using a KB and controller isn't so bad. Most raiding in WoW relies on headset communication. I really don't need to see trade chat and zone chat since it's mostly spam and gold sellers.