Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread (WIRED article, early MUDs, wikipedia, 90's gaming site article) to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mobs and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? This is the part where you're going to tell me that your personal definition is the right one (contrary to any history or documentation otherwise) so we're probably at an impasse.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mons and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? I can't guess your personal defintions, so you're going to have to help out here.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mons and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? I can't guess your personal defintions, so you're going to have to help out here.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
And again, you are making PK synonymous with gank. As already explained to you, ANYONE who PVPed in UO was a PK because PK simply meant player killer... as opposed to a person who killed mobs. The association with 'ganker' is yours. You bring up UO but i really challenge you to find anything from that time frame you refer to that says PK was anything more than PVP. You talk about the origin of the term and, again, I already linked sources that say the exact opposite - that not only did it simply mean PVP but it has meant that for years before UO as well.
As expected, no amount of history, fact or reference is going to sway you from what you want to believe, so we're at an impasse. You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
That's entirely based on your definition of "mature". Your own feeling and others like you with feelings of "grief". Not to mention your biased views on what's poor behavior and what's not.
Not everybody that cries "GRIEF!" are entitled to call foul for obvious reasons.
You're attempting to side-step the premise by arguing symantics.
Morality and maturity are subjective, but they are definied by the collective majority of those involved. The collective majority of MMO gamers have a fairly solid basis of what behavior is an isn't griefing.
These days it's different with there being more choice in games and server rule-sets, but the morality of behavior is still determined by the sum of the community. If the majority of players deem ninja-looting to be bad behavior -- and most do -- then ninja looting is bad behavior.
Interesting argument. So if, for example, a person joins an MMO where there is a prevelent culture of non-consensual PvP, and then complains about getting ganked, he is ipso facto in the wrong according to the local morality?
I like the article on the first page. I agree with the PKer. People who get overly emotional in real life about being PK'd are the people you need to worry about. If you are a blood thirsty PKer in a game and are unamotionally effected or hindered in real life, then good on you.
However if you are a person being PK'd, and you take out your rage and anger and curse at the PKer and make threats about RL and how you want to stab him through his screen, ect, like so many butthurt players do, then you are the one with some issues because clearly you are getting too worked up over the game... Frustration over being PK'd is understandable, so work to get back at him in game, or find a clever way to get away or beat him at his own game. That is all fine.
However once you let it effect your real life, then you are the one who has truly lost.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
That's entirely based on your definition of "mature". Your own feeling and others like you with feelings of "grief". Not to mention your biased views on what's poor behavior and what's not.
Not everybody that cries "GRIEF!" are entitled to call foul for obvious reasons.
You're attempting to side-step the premise by arguing symantics.
Morality and maturity are subjective, but they are definied by the collective majority of those involved. The collective majority of MMO gamers have a fairly solid basis of what behavior is an isn't griefing.
These days it's different with there being more choice in games and server rule-sets, but the morality of behavior is still determined by the sum of the community. If the majority of players deem ninja-looting to be bad behavior -- and most do -- then ninja looting is bad behavior.
Interesting argument. So if, for example, a person joins an MMO where there is a prevelent culture of non-consensual PvP, and then complains about getting ganked, he is ipso facto in the wrong according to the local morality?
Correct.
If you join a game where non-consensual PvP is possible, prevelent, expected, and the majority of the community is "fine" with it, then you have no ground to be complaining about that game.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mons and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? I can't guess your personal defintions, so you're going to have to help out here.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
And again, you are making PK synonymous with gank. As already explained to you, ANYONE who PVPed in UO was a PK because PK simply meant player killer... as opposed to a person who killed mobs. The association with 'ganker' is yours. You bring up UO but i really challenge you to find anything from that time frame you refer to that says PK was anything more than PVP. You talk about the origin of the term and, again, I already linked sources that say the exact opposite - that not only did it simply mean PVP but it has meant that for years before UO as well.
As expected, no amount of history, fact or reference is going to sway you from what you want to believe, so we're at an impasse. You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
That's entirely based on your definition of "mature". Your own feeling and others like you with feelings of "grief". Not to mention your biased views on what's poor behavior and what's not.
Not everybody that cries "GRIEF!" are entitled to call foul for obvious reasons.
You're attempting to side-step the premise by arguing symantics.
Morality and maturity are subjective, but they are definied by the collective majority of those involved. The collective majority of MMO gamers have a fairly solid basis of what behavior is an isn't griefing.
These days it's different with there being more choice in games and server rule-sets, but the morality of behavior is still determined by the sum of the community. If the majority of players deem ninja-looting to be bad behavior -- and most do -- then ninja looting is bad behavior.
Interesting argument. So if, for example, a person joins an MMO where there is a prevelent culture of non-consensual PvP, and then complains about getting ganked, he is ipso facto in the wrong according to the local morality?
Correct.
If you join a game where non-consensual PvP is possible, prevelent, expected, and the majority of the community is "fine" with it, then you have no ground to be complaining about that game.
I think there are some exceptions to this rule. See many games like WoW has ruleset servers such a PVP, or RPPVP. If you join a RPPVP server or on 'some' PVP servers, the community is more settled as PVE or RP far over the 'PVP' aspect.
In this case, regardless of what is accepted by the community, by the ruleset of the server your actions can be justified despite the majority, because everybody who had joined that server contractually bound themselves willingly to that ruleset, and are thus not immune to the implications.
I like the article on the first page. I agree with the PKer. People who get overly emotional in real life about being PK'd are the people you need to worry about. If you are a blood thirsty PKer in a game and be unamotionally effected or hindered in real life, then good on you.
However if you are a person being PK'd, and you take out your rage and anger and curse at the PKer and make threats about RL and how you want to stab him through his screen, ect, like so many butthurt players do, then you are the one with some issues because clearly you are getting too worked up over the game... Frustration over being PK'd is understandable, so work to get back at him in game, or find a clever way to get away or beat him at his own game. That is all fine.
However once you let it effect your real life, then you are the one who has truly lost.
Yup.
Those are the people you really have to watch out for. Being labelled as a "disturbed person" (as was said in a previous post) for playing a video game in a certain style, really exposes the sheltered and wimpy nature of this type of "gamer".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If a game advertises ffa pvp and ffa pvp where people can be pk'ed/pk at any level then I would assume that players who don't mind this game play will want to play it.
In Lineage 2, if I saw a wartag I would pk them no matter the level. I would never bad mouth them or insult them, I would just take them out.
PKer is defined as someone who PvP's in a manner that ruins the gameplay of their victims. A completely different scenario than a free for all PvP game, where most people tend to fight others in the context of the game and don't grief specific individuals or areas for hours at a time.
Edit: Hence the reason why most people are called PvPers and certain individuals are labeled as PKers.
Well, whenever I was killed by a wartag or killed someone who was a war tag it was always called "pk". Player Kill.
I still stand by my statement which is that any game that has ffa pvp where any level can pk a significantly lower lvl player should only be played by the people who don't mind that type of thing.
I just don't understand why players who hate this type of thing would play a game where it was allowed?
I do. Pure unbridled arrogance. For some reason these types of players feel they should be free to go play out in the metaphorical traffic of a game with open PVP mechanics and yet not be bound by the same rules as everyone else. Or even worse feel that they the players have more right to decide as to how the game mechanics should work, so feel everyone should PVP by their more polite unwritten rules. PVE servers exist in most games for a reason folks.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mons and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? I can't guess your personal defintions, so you're going to have to help out here.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
And again, you are making PK synonymous with gank. As already explained to you, ANYONE who PVPed in UO was a PK because PK simply meant player killer... as opposed to a person who killed mobs. The association with 'ganker' is yours. You bring up UO but i really challenge you to find anything from that time frame you refer to that says PK was anything more than PVP. You talk about the origin of the term and, again, I already linked sources that say the exact opposite - that not only did it simply mean PVP but it has meant that for years before UO as well.
As expected, no amount of history, fact or reference is going to sway you from what you want to believe, so we're at an impasse. You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others.
First few pages I find when googling "PK" or "PKing in Ultima Online"
They all refer to PKing as being pretty much synonymous to gankers.
So no, I'm not making things up.
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If you join a game where non-consensual PvP is possible, prevelent, expected, and the majority of the community is "fine" with it, then you have no ground to be complaining about that game.
Then we're largely in agreement. I play EVE, where there certainly is such a culture. Currently I am a pirate, joyously slaughtering everyone I can to take their stuff, but in RL I am fairly nice person who rarely if ever murders strangers in order to rob them.
I am glad to know there is no conflict and that I am in the right.
Of course, there is a vocal minority of EVE players who do complain about it, but given the vast number of ship kills that happen every day, and the fact that even the peaceful parts of EVE's economy utterly rely on continuous ship loss on a massive scale, I am reassured to have you confirm that they're simply unjustified in their complaints. It's just part of the game.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
That's entirely based on your definition of "mature". Your own feeling and others like you with feelings of "grief". Not to mention your biased views on what's poor behavior and what's not.
Not everybody that cries "GRIEF!" are entitled to call foul for obvious reasons.
You're attempting to side-step the premise by arguing symantics.
Morality and maturity are subjective, but they are definied by the collective majority of those involved. The collective majority of MMO gamers have a fairly solid basis of what behavior is an isn't griefing.
These days it's different with there being more choice in games and server rule-sets, but the morality of behavior is still determined by the sum of the community. If the majority of players deem ninja-looting to be bad behavior -- and most do -- then ninja looting is bad behavior.
Interesting argument. So if, for example, a person joins an MMO where there is a prevelent culture of non-consensual PvP, and then complains about getting ganked, he is ipso facto in the wrong according to the local morality?
Correct.
If you join a game where non-consensual PvP is possible, prevelent, expected, and the majority of the community is "fine" with it, then you have no ground to be complaining about that game.
I think there are some exceptions to this rule. See many games like WoW has ruleset servers such a PVP, or RPPVP. If you join a RPPVP server or on 'some' PVP servers, the community is more settled as PVE or RP far over the 'PVP' aspect.
In this case, regardless of what is accepted by the community, by the ruleset of the server your actions can be justified despite the majority, because everybody who had joined that server contractually binded themselves willingly to that ruleset, and are thus not immune to the implications.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's moral to do so. Morality is defined by the beliefs and values of the community. If the majority of the community, in per your example an RPPvP server community, believes that indescriminate ganking or PKing is wrong, then by all means idescriminate ganking or PKing is immoral within that communitys value set. As such, expect to be ostricized by said community if you are to partake in behavior that is at odds with their values.
That's how morality works, for any community in an MMO or in real life. If the majority of a culture believes doing X is immoral, then doing X while in the presence of said community will make you a pariah in their eyes.
I like the article on the first page. I agree with the PKer. People who get overly emotional in real life about being PK'd are the people you need to worry about. If you are a blood thirsty PKer in a game and are unamotionally effected or hindered in real life, then good on you.
However if you are a person being PK'd, and you take out your rage and anger and curse at the PKer and make threats about RL and how you want to stab him through his screen, ect, like so many butthurt players do, then you are the one with some issues because clearly you are getting too worked up over the game... Frustration over being PK'd is understandable, so work to get back at him in game, or find a clever way to get away or beat him at his own game. That is all fine.
However once you let it effect your real life, then you are the one who has truly lost.
The same can be said in reverse. Frankly, I think anyone who gets overly emotionally invested in a game.....has issues. That goes for PvP'ers as well, and some of them are just as guilty as the lowbies they may choose to gank (if they are the ganking/griefing TYPE of PvP'er). Wherever the perspective that "I am playing a GAME" gets lost.....there are going to be issues.
Some people DO bring their real life personalities along with them when they are gaming, ya know? I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing, but when other people playing a game with you become anonymous outlets of your hatred or rage.....it's time to see a shrink, in my opinion.
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
Any non-consentual PvP is very much griefing.
Read my other posts though, because it will give insight into the specific... but to save you the time:
Choosing to join an MMO or server with a ruleset with any variation of PvP, or entering an ingame area or instance labeled explicitly for PvP, where PvP and specifically ganking is expected and encouraged, is consenting to said PvP.
Non-consentual PvP is joining an MMO, server rulseset, or ingame zone where PvP is possible, but is actively discouraged (ingame penalties) and/or generally frowned upon by the majority of the game's community.
Real life != game life. The two are entirely separate. Actions committed in a game should not cause any true harm to another. At most, a ganker should only cause another person annoyance and loss of time. And really, any action that is allowed within the defined rules of a game should be considered fair. If you play a game where ganking is possible, you should not be offended when you are ganked. If you are, it is no one's fault but your own and perhaps you should find a more peaceful game.
That being said, I do think there are certain rules of conduct that should be followed even if you are a ganker. For instance, I personally believe that characters who are much lower in level should not be targetted. Additionally, repeatedly ganking the same person over and over again when they have no possible chance of fighting back is dishonorable and cowardly. It reflects poorly on an individual's character and may be a sign of some personal issues.
Every person I've met who has admitted to being a 'PKer' or otherwise griefer was not necessarily a jerk. In fact, most of them seemed like okay people in person.
I will state however, that each of these people who was not a jerk, they definitely showed a lack of development either emotionally or in maturity, and simply lacked any critical understanding of morality. Simply put, they couldn't percieve the extent of grief their behavior was causing. They thought what they were doing was "funny", and justified any inconvenience they were causing as justifiable because "it's just a game."
So really I don't think it's necessarily that they're jerks or sociopaths, simply that they're too immature to understand the full effect their poor behavior is having on others. Despite this however, it by no means excuses their poor behavior.
I'll also note, that anyone who genuinely does grief other players, knowing full well it's causing their targets to become very upset, and taking pleasure in that fact, are truly disturbed people.
The problem I have there is that you equate PKing with griefing. If you enter an open PVP area (Tarren Mills?) and a player kills you, under any circumstance that is PKing - it is a player killing another player. According to you. that real life person has some definiciency in their morality or development as a human. The other player is playing the game according to the rules, and the situation could even be one where you are a higher level than them, but you would still say that he's causing grief to the other player and simply not developed enough as a human being to understand the grief he has just caused another human.
You don't see anything wrong with that view?
If you walk into a war zone as a soldier, expect to be fired upon.
Your scenario isn't PKing, it's just PvP.
In the traditional sense, PKing typically refers to one or more players who force PvP upon one or more unwilling and often unworthy victim/s. This happens far less today, because there is abundantly more choice in both MMOs and server rule-sets. It can still happen however, in the form of higher level players ganking lower levels, but even then the morality of it is subjective to the perception of such acts by the game's community.
I'm speaking on broader terms as well. It's not just PKing, it's any type of selfish behavior and/or griefing. The bulk of the players who break the behavioral and social norms of their game/server community, are the ones who are less developed emotionally and lack the empathy needed to understand the true impact they're having.
And I have provided several links in this thread to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mons and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? I can't guess your personal defintions, so you're going to have to help out here.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
And again, you are making PK synonymous with gank. As already explained to you, ANYONE who PVPed in UO was a PK because PK simply meant player killer... as opposed to a person who killed mobs. The association with 'ganker' is yours. You bring up UO but i really challenge you to find anything from that time frame you refer to that says PK was anything more than PVP. You talk about the origin of the term and, again, I already linked sources that say the exact opposite - that not only did it simply mean PVP but it has meant that for years before UO as well.
As expected, no amount of history, fact or reference is going to sway you from what you want to believe, so we're at an impasse. You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others.
First few pages I find when googling "PK" or "PKing in Ultima Online"
They all refer to PKing as being pretty much synonymous to gankers.
So no, I'm not making things up.
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
Haha, ganking is called 'ganking' for a reason. People associate PKers with gankers heavily so it becomes sort of synonyms with 'ganker', however they are seperate words for a reason. PK = Player Killer or Player Kill. By itself, it is merely the killing of another player as a core construct of what makes PVP.
I agree with the association of 'PK' being more used for people who kill un consensually, however I believe that there is a very big difference between somebody who conciously choosed to PK, and somebody who chooses to gank of grief other players.
Also, I find it silly that people consider everybody who kills un consensually a cowardly ganker. When I am running around in a area where I can openly kill for any reason in a game that allows it, I am not a coward for not walking up and asking the guy if he wants to die.
/duel is a mechanic for just that reason, it is in many MMO's for people who want consensual player verse player during open world experiences.
Choosing to join an MMO or server with a ruleset with any variation of PvP, or entering an ingame area or instance labeled explicitly for PvP, where PvP and specifically ganking is expected and encouraged, is consenting to said PvP.
I played baseball because I loved the competition, I PK for the same reason.
When I played baseball I did not go easy on you because your parents thought your fat ass should get outside and be active. I was not worried about your emotional wellbeing if I struck you out in 3 pitches. Instead I thought “easy out”, and I’m sure millions of other kids have said the same. In sports, hell life in general, the skilled pray on the unskilled.
The only difference between the fat kids who hated playing sports because they were horrible at it, and your average whinny carebear: Message boards
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
Any non-consentual PvP is very much griefing.
Read my other posts though, because it will give insight into the specific... but to save you the time:
Choosing to join an MMO or server with a ruleset with any variation of PvP, or entering an ingame area or instance labeled explicitly for PvP, where PvP and specifically ganking is expected and encouraged, is consenting to said PvP.
Non-consentual PvP is joining an MMO, server rulseset, or ingame zone where PvP is possible, but is actively discouraged (ingame penalties) and/or generally frowned upon by the majority of the game's community.
Ok, so now you're obviously screwing with me, so I'll just consider myself successfully trolled. Well played, sir.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
Any non-consentual PvP is very much griefing.
Read my other posts though, because it will give insight into the specific... but to save you the time:
Choosing to join an MMO or server with a ruleset with any variation of PvP, or entering an ingame area or instance labeled explicitly for PvP, where PvP and specifically ganking is expected and encouraged, is consenting to said PvP.
Non-consentual PvP is joining an MMO, server rulseset, or ingame zone where PvP is possible, but is actively discouraged (ingame penalties) and/or generally frowned upon by the majority of the game's community.
Ok, so now you're obviously screwing with me, so I'll just consider myself successfully trolled. Well played, sir.
Lol, I thought griefing was seen as people who ruin peoples experiece by not blocking quests and constantly repeat killing during progressions.
Surely one flyby fireball to the face is not griefing. I have to get places in a hurry sometimes, and although it is a RP server, I felt like RP'ing my faction by eleminating any threats on my way to the nearest town. Also, I was role playing a bandit, so the player who I saw harvesting was also open gain for my role play.
All the games that I have played that allow you to be red, or pk, or gank, I do so rampantly. If the game allows you to talk trash to your PKer though, I tend to either not respond to who I ganked/killed, or just laugh. I rez kill, over and over and over and over again, just for the fun of it. Why? Because I know it's pissing the guy off.
Yet, I work in a nursing home, with hundreds of elderly people. I know every single one of their names. When one passes, I attend their funeral. I spend hours of my off time just chilling with them, hearing their stories, talking with their visiting family members. I'm one of the nicest, hardworking, and dedicated people in the building.
But when I come home, and I enter an MMO of choice, it's a great way to relax and forget about the real world for a couple hours by grabbing a beer and ganking every moving thing in range.
All the games that I have played that allow you to be red, or pk, or gank, I do so rampantly. If the game allows you to talk trash to your PKer though, I tend to either not respond to who I ganked/killed, or just laugh. I rez kill, over and over and over and over again, just for the fun of it. Why? Because I know it's pissing the guy off.
Yet, I work in a nursing home, with hundreds of elderly people. I know every single one of their names. When one passes, I attend their funeral. I spend hours of my off time just chilling with them, hearing their stories, talking with their visiting family members. I'm one of the nicest, hardworking, and dedicated people in the building.
But when I come home, and I enter an MMO of choice, it's a great way to relax and forget about the real world for a couple hours by grabbing a beer and ganking every moving thing in range.
I loved how in RF online you could drink a potion that would turn you red to your own faction. I'd drink it up and kill everybody in sight for about thirty minutes, and there were about one hundred lower level players around. They would spam up trade channels asking for high level players to come help them, while whining and complaining about me. Trying to beckon me to stop the madness.
So after the ground was littered with corpses, I sat down to take a breather while I waited as the higher level players came to their slaughter. As far as I'm concerned, this is the real fun that I haved worked up to. I cleared all the adds, and now it's time for the boss pull.
The only negative to this? Every single person on the server hated me. Then again that was an interesting experience too. It's not about the satasfaction of dominating other people, it's the thrill of the slaughter and enjoyment of the skill required to handle the concequences after the fact.
My fundamental reason for mercilessly killing others in a game? Because it's fun.
Comments
And I have provided several links in this thread (WIRED article, early MUDs, wikipedia, 90's gaming site article) to show that 'traditionally' PK has meant simply player killing and is a term created to make the distinction between a player who kills mobs and a player who kills other players. What you define there is ganking, is it not? This is the part where you're going to tell me that your personal definition is the right one (contrary to any history or documentation otherwise) so we're probably at an impasse.
You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others. .
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My first MMO was Ultima Online. The term "PK" was synonymous to murderer and ganker. Those who hunted them were NPK (anti-PKs). They both engaged in PvP. I'm not arbitrarily making up terms, simply going by what one of the first MMOs basically pioneered with regards to term labeling.
The original question was can PKers/gankers be nice people, which was what I was refering to, and I believe the OP meant PKers as a synonym to ganker in the singular. My responses were in relation to those who behaved outside of the social norms and expectations in the game, specifically gankers and PKers (the kind that gank). This is a callback to MMO days of old where there were virtually no choice in MMOs or ruleset, where you were forced to deal with a FFA ruleset regardless of if you wanted to PvP or not.
I PK when I am paid.
And again, you are making PK synonymous with gank. As already explained to you, ANYONE who PVPed in UO was a PK because PK simply meant player killer... as opposed to a person who killed mobs. The association with 'ganker' is yours. You bring up UO but i really challenge you to find anything from that time frame you refer to that says PK was anything more than PVP. You talk about the origin of the term and, again, I already linked sources that say the exact opposite - that not only did it simply mean PVP but it has meant that for years before UO as well.
As expected, no amount of history, fact or reference is going to sway you from what you want to believe, so we're at an impasse. You have decided that PKing is ganking and ganking is griefing so anyone who PKs has mental issues. Seems kind of odd and arbitrary judgement of others.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Interesting argument. So if, for example, a person joins an MMO where there is a prevelent culture of non-consensual PvP, and then complains about getting ganked, he is ipso facto in the wrong according to the local morality?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I like the article on the first page. I agree with the PKer. People who get overly emotional in real life about being PK'd are the people you need to worry about. If you are a blood thirsty PKer in a game and are unamotionally effected or hindered in real life, then good on you.
However if you are a person being PK'd, and you take out your rage and anger and curse at the PKer and make threats about RL and how you want to stab him through his screen, ect, like so many butthurt players do, then you are the one with some issues because clearly you are getting too worked up over the game... Frustration over being PK'd is understandable, so work to get back at him in game, or find a clever way to get away or beat him at his own game. That is all fine.
However once you let it effect your real life, then you are the one who has truly lost.
Correct.
If you join a game where non-consensual PvP is possible, prevelent, expected, and the majority of the community is "fine" with it, then you have no ground to be complaining about that game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pk
http://www.thecomputershow.com/computershow/news/uoplayerkillers.htm
First few pages I find when googling "PK" or "PKing in Ultima Online"
They all refer to PKing as being pretty much synonymous to gankers.
So no, I'm not making things up.
I think there are some exceptions to this rule. See many games like WoW has ruleset servers such a PVP, or RPPVP. If you join a RPPVP server or on 'some' PVP servers, the community is more settled as PVE or RP far over the 'PVP' aspect.
In this case, regardless of what is accepted by the community, by the ruleset of the server your actions can be justified despite the majority, because everybody who had joined that server contractually bound themselves willingly to that ruleset, and are thus not immune to the implications.
Yup.
Those are the people you really have to watch out for. Being labelled as a "disturbed person" (as was said in a previous post) for playing a video game in a certain style, really exposes the sheltered and wimpy nature of this type of "gamer".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I do. Pure unbridled arrogance. For some reason these types of players feel they should be free to go play out in the metaphorical traffic of a game with open PVP mechanics and yet not be bound by the same rules as everyone else. Or even worse feel that they the players have more right to decide as to how the game mechanics should work, so feel everyone should PVP by their more polite unwritten rules. PVE servers exist in most games for a reason folks.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I read your first link and now I am curious what you are reading there that says PKing is ganking? Are you saying that ANY non-consentual PVP is ganking? And if you are then, again, do you realize that you are once again using your own personal definition here?
Edit: Just went back to that last link you have and the article is by someone who is completely against all PVP, claiming that all people who kill other players are cowards and bullies. I get the impression that you truly believe non-consentual PvP is griefing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Then we're largely in agreement. I play EVE, where there certainly is such a culture. Currently I am a pirate, joyously slaughtering everyone I can to take their stuff, but in RL I am fairly nice person who rarely if ever murders strangers in order to rob them.
I am glad to know there is no conflict and that I am in the right.
Of course, there is a vocal minority of EVE players who do complain about it, but given the vast number of ship kills that happen every day, and the fact that even the peaceful parts of EVE's economy utterly rely on continuous ship loss on a massive scale, I am reassured to have you confirm that they're simply unjustified in their complaints. It's just part of the game.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Anybody using Urbandictionary.com as a credible source should imidiately be dismissed.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's moral to do so. Morality is defined by the beliefs and values of the community. If the majority of the community, in per your example an RPPvP server community, believes that indescriminate ganking or PKing is wrong, then by all means idescriminate ganking or PKing is immoral within that communitys value set. As such, expect to be ostricized by said community if you are to partake in behavior that is at odds with their values.
That's how morality works, for any community in an MMO or in real life. If the majority of a culture believes doing X is immoral, then doing X while in the presence of said community will make you a pariah in their eyes.
The same can be said in reverse. Frankly, I think anyone who gets overly emotionally invested in a game.....has issues. That goes for PvP'ers as well, and some of them are just as guilty as the lowbies they may choose to gank (if they are the ganking/griefing TYPE of PvP'er). Wherever the perspective that "I am playing a GAME" gets lost.....there are going to be issues.
Some people DO bring their real life personalities along with them when they are gaming, ya know? I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing, but when other people playing a game with you become anonymous outlets of your hatred or rage.....it's time to see a shrink, in my opinion.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Any non-consentual PvP is very much griefing.
Read my other posts though, because it will give insight into the specific... but to save you the time:
Choosing to join an MMO or server with a ruleset with any variation of PvP, or entering an ingame area or instance labeled explicitly for PvP, where PvP and specifically ganking is expected and encouraged, is consenting to said PvP.
Non-consentual PvP is joining an MMO, server rulseset, or ingame zone where PvP is possible, but is actively discouraged (ingame penalties) and/or generally frowned upon by the majority of the game's community.
Real life != game life. The two are entirely separate. Actions committed in a game should not cause any true harm to another. At most, a ganker should only cause another person annoyance and loss of time. And really, any action that is allowed within the defined rules of a game should be considered fair. If you play a game where ganking is possible, you should not be offended when you are ganked. If you are, it is no one's fault but your own and perhaps you should find a more peaceful game.
That being said, I do think there are certain rules of conduct that should be followed even if you are a ganker. For instance, I personally believe that characters who are much lower in level should not be targetted. Additionally, repeatedly ganking the same person over and over again when they have no possible chance of fighting back is dishonorable and cowardly. It reflects poorly on an individual's character and may be a sign of some personal issues.
Haha, ganking is called 'ganking' for a reason. People associate PKers with gankers heavily so it becomes sort of synonyms with 'ganker', however they are seperate words for a reason. PK = Player Killer or Player Kill. By itself, it is merely the killing of another player as a core construct of what makes PVP.
I agree with the association of 'PK' being more used for people who kill un consensually, however I believe that there is a very big difference between somebody who conciously choosed to PK, and somebody who chooses to gank of grief other players.
Also, I find it silly that people consider everybody who kills un consensually a cowardly ganker. When I am running around in a area where I can openly kill for any reason in a game that allows it, I am not a coward for not walking up and asking the guy if he wants to die.
/duel is a mechanic for just that reason, it is in many MMO's for people who want consensual player verse player during open world experiences.
Well said!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
PK=competition
I played baseball because I loved the competition, I PK for the same reason.
When I played baseball I did not go easy on you because your parents thought your fat ass should get outside and be active. I was not worried about your emotional wellbeing if I struck you out in 3 pitches. Instead I thought “easy out”, and I’m sure millions of other kids have said the same. In sports, hell life in general, the skilled pray on the unskilled.
The only difference between the fat kids who hated playing sports because they were horrible at it, and your average whinny carebear: Message boards
Ok, so now you're obviously screwing with me, so I'll just consider myself successfully trolled. Well played, sir.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Lol, I thought griefing was seen as people who ruin peoples experiece by not blocking quests and constantly repeat killing during progressions.
Surely one flyby fireball to the face is not griefing. I have to get places in a hurry sometimes, and although it is a RP server, I felt like RP'ing my faction by eleminating any threats on my way to the nearest town. Also, I was role playing a bandit, so the player who I saw harvesting was also open gain for my role play.
All the games that I have played that allow you to be red, or pk, or gank, I do so rampantly. If the game allows you to talk trash to your PKer though, I tend to either not respond to who I ganked/killed, or just laugh. I rez kill, over and over and over and over again, just for the fun of it. Why? Because I know it's pissing the guy off.
Yet, I work in a nursing home, with hundreds of elderly people. I know every single one of their names. When one passes, I attend their funeral. I spend hours of my off time just chilling with them, hearing their stories, talking with their visiting family members. I'm one of the nicest, hardworking, and dedicated people in the building.
But when I come home, and I enter an MMO of choice, it's a great way to relax and forget about the real world for a couple hours by grabbing a beer and ganking every moving thing in range.
I loved how in RF online you could drink a potion that would turn you red to your own faction. I'd drink it up and kill everybody in sight for about thirty minutes, and there were about one hundred lower level players around. They would spam up trade channels asking for high level players to come help them, while whining and complaining about me. Trying to beckon me to stop the madness.
So after the ground was littered with corpses, I sat down to take a breather while I waited as the higher level players came to their slaughter. As far as I'm concerned, this is the real fun that I haved worked up to. I cleared all the adds, and now it's time for the boss pull.
The only negative to this? Every single person on the server hated me. Then again that was an interesting experience too. It's not about the satasfaction of dominating other people, it's the thrill of the slaughter and enjoyment of the skill required to handle the concequences after the fact.
My fundamental reason for mercilessly killing others in a game? Because it's fun.