PK/Gank = evil, anti social, Hitler or Staline behind the screen
no PK/Gank = good, social, Luther king or Gandhi behind the screen
That nice though.
I think you take it too personnaly and mis interpret their intention in order to fit your ideologie.
First, Pker don't kill you they kill your character. They don't like to fight computer because there is no challenge. They want someone that can give them challenge. They are not interesting by the "kill" but by the "victory" : it is not the same.
Second thing is the way of wining, murder is bad? yes. virtual murder is bad? no. Unless you want to stop child playing indian&cowboy, the human being as you desire don't exist.
To be more clear : i you feel angry it is you who has a mental problem, imo. Plotting bad and good person is a false debat
Now, more philosophically,
You quote it already : "Education is the art of making man ethical." (Hegel)
To explain simply so you can understand : Human is born "bad" person. Society, culture, education... make "kind" person
I think your main problem is not to accept that "bad" is part of man. When i read you, i have the feeling you are surprised,afaid of any fight or violence between virtual human. I don't even imagine on real human... (i hear "Imagine" song from Lennon^^)
Originally posted by baldernono They don't like to fight computer because there is no challenge. They want someone that can give them challenge. They are not interesting by the "kill" but by the "victory" : it is not the same.
I had to quote this because if that were true any full pvp server would be a joy to behold ... but it just doesn't seem to be this way. Oh I am sure many want to have a challenge but how would that explain the oh so many "pkers" who search for victims not challenge? Only attacking when victory is assured. They might or might not be a minority but thats the first thing that comes to my mind when I (and probably many others) think of when they hear free for all pvp und playerkilling in mmos.
ITT: People who don't actually play ffa pvp games, talk about how mean the players are in said games.
As someone who has never been to Russia, but has read Dostoevsky's The Devils, it is clear to me (and no doubt many others) that all Russian's are either bungling aristocrats or murdering revolutionaries. And thus by extension, are all complete and utter bastards with no social skills.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
They don't like to fight computer because there is no challenge. They want someone that can give them challenge. They are not interesting by the "kill" but by the "victory" : it is not the same.
I had to quote this because if that were true any full pvp server would be a joy to behold ... but it just doesn't seem to be this way. Oh I am sure many want to have a challenge but how would that explain the oh so many "pkers" who search for victims not challenge? Only attacking when victory is assured. They might or might not be a minority but thats the first thing that comes to my mind when I (and probably many others) think of when they hear free for all pvp und playerkilling in mmos.
1_ It is not a question of majority or minority. It is the message behind. All doesn't have that "pure" intention i know : i totally agree. But if I think it is a game, you think it is real. If i think they want easy target because they are not fairplay, you think they want easy target because they are "bad" person behind their screen. Then i disagree
2_ As i already said, "Imagine" song from Lennon. When i read some comments i hear: "Carebear or Noddy in PK Land". it remind me priest in Middle Age who want to "save" or "purify" heretic.
Considering how I've noted that there has been thirty-ish pages of repeat material to reach the same conclusions we/I made on page six...yeah I'm pretty sure that's all it is at this point.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I think there is a wrong impression that those that don't like griefing or unfair pking and complain about it don't like PvP. I enjoyed playing Dark Age of Camelot. I enjoyed Anarchy Online. I even enjoyed Shadowbane before it went to hell with griefers. PvP when it's ideally done works and is fun. People that choose to play a PvP game have no problems with the idea itself. It's when the system is abused and griefing takes place that people complain.
What many people have issues with is those that stand outside of safe areas and purposefully lay in wait for those of lower level for an easy kill. They usually hide behind the idea that they are role playing a robber, etc. No they are killing lower level players because it's easy. They take pleasure in making the playtime of another player miserable. There is no challenge in what they do.
This is what happen in Shadowbane and Ultima Online before it. In SB the idea was that players would fight other players to control areas. Guilds were fight other guilds and lay siege to their cities. If you are leveling in an area others would come and try to drive you out. When the game first launched it was fun. Once I got to the main island I got into a group and we fighting in an area to gain money. Many were from a guild and were hoping to save up enough first to get better weapons and armor and then make a small city in some out of the way area. We knew it would be dangerous which is why we even had some others off to the side as spotters so we wouldn't be jumped unaware. Others were joining to simply level like me. It was fun. Some higher levels tried to attack us while we healed up but then we took after them to drive them away. Numbers saved us. Slowly over time what happen was groups of high levels were coming around to stop newbies from even establishing themselves. Purposefully targeting low levels and not others of their own level or rank.
It got so bad that the developers were forced to increase the leveling range of the newbie island so people could level up even further so they wouldn't be prey to those on the main island once they got there. You couldn't walk out of the npc controls cities on the main island without being attacked. It was unreasonable to expect everyone to group before heading out due to the different times people played. It made joining groups already out in the field impossible. Pick up groups weren't possible as a result and that really is how majority of people play MMOs.
This type of thing happen in Ultima Online I believe. The system was abused with people targeting players that wanted to craft (clearly weren't capable of fighting back at times. That's one example. This is why Trammel was created. People still say it ruined the game. No it saved that game from going under. PvP is abused by certain group of players when there is no structure (Frontier in DAoC, etc) and there is a reason why FFA games either die in time ("prey" leave) or stay incredibly small and niche.
Those that act in this manner, who purposefully abuse the system setup, know exactly what they are doing. They know full well that their "enjoyment" comes at the expense of others. They know they are making others miserable. Those that do this I do not believe at all are really kind people in real life. How you act when you have anonymity I believe shows the type of person you are really are and who you really want to be.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When you are in a faction then "ganking" is totally ok in my opinion. I will distinguish this from unfair "griefing" which I define as almost exploit like camping of respawns or graveyards, etc.
But "ganking" (as defined as very high level killing low level) is totally within the spirit of role playing your faction. In fact, it would be against the spirit of the game to let that little orc run by while Aragorn simply watches and lets him pass and cause his mischief. And if I am a weak little human ranger aspiring to be Aragorn, I total expect that a high level Orc warrior will kill me on sight. What kind of wuss Orc warrior would let a weak little human walk right by him?
Now, if the game is set up so that it is too easy to "gank," then that is the fault of the game not the players.
That is just my opinion as an avid PVP fan who on occassion would sneak into enemy cities as a rogue and take out low-level evil Orcs who were too careless. The challenge was that the game makes it hard to remain unnoticed in those cities, and the high levels are all around trying to find me. Good times, good times...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Considering how I've noted that there has been thirty-ish pages of repeat material to reach the same conclusions we/I made on page six...yeah I'm pretty sure that's all it is at this point.
I love how you keep reposting that the thread should be over because you're right. I'm not being facetious here - it genuinely does entertain me that you've been doing that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Considering how I've noted that there has been thirty-ish pages of repeat material to reach the same conclusions we/I made on page six...yeah I'm pretty sure that's all it is at this point.
I love how you keep reposting that the thread should be over because you're right. I'm not being facetious here - it genuinely does entertain me that you've been doing that.
Yes, because when some one says 'I' and 'we', they really only mean 'I'.
Yes you are being facetious, because you have to read and interpret the statement wrong to achieve the end goal.
Now here's something that wouldn't be facetious; you contributing a valid comment.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
Why would anyone care? I don't give a crap what kind of person you are in RL.
PK/Gank = evil, anti social, Hitler or Staline behind the screen
no PK/Gank = good, social, Luther king or Gandhi behind the screen
That nice though.
I think you take it too personnaly and mis interpret their intention in order to fit your ideologie.
First, Pker don't kill you they kill your character. They don't like to fight computer because there is no challenge. They want someone that can give them challenge. They are not interesting by the "kill" but by the "victory" : it is not the same.
Second thing is the way of wining, murder is bad? yes. virtual murder is bad? no. Unless you want to stop child playing indian&cowboy, the human being as you desire don't exist.
To be more clear : i you feel angry it is you who has a mental problem, imo. Plotting bad and good person is a false debat
Now, more philosophically,
You quote it already : "Education is the art of making man ethical." (Hegel)
To explain simply so you can understand : Human is born "bad" person. Society, culture, education... make "kind" person
I think your main problem is not to accept that "bad" is part of man. When i read you, i have the feeling you are surprised,afaid of any fight or violence between virtual human. I don't even imagine on real human... (i hear "Imagine" song from Lennon^^)
(double post)
I had to quote this because if that were true any full pvp server would be a joy to behold ... but it just doesn't seem to be this way. Oh I am sure many want to have a challenge but how would that explain the oh so many "pkers" who search for victims not challenge? Only attacking when victory is assured. They might or might not be a minority but thats the first thing that comes to my mind when I (and probably many others) think of when they hear free for all pvp und playerkilling in mmos.
ITT: People who don't actually play ffa pvp games, talk about how mean the players are in said games.
As someone who has never been to Russia, but has read Dostoevsky's The Devils, it is clear to me (and no doubt many others) that all Russian's are either bungling aristocrats or murdering revolutionaries. And thus by extension, are all complete and utter bastards with no social skills.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
1_ It is not a question of majority or minority. It is the message behind. All doesn't have that "pure" intention i know : i totally agree. But if I think it is a game, you think it is real. If i think they want easy target because they are not fairplay, you think they want easy target because they are "bad" person behind their screen. Then i disagree
2_ As i already said, "Imagine" song from Lennon. When i read some comments i hear: "Carebear or Noddy in PK Land". it remind me priest in Middle Age who want to "save" or "purify" heretic.
Could be a bad person because they're not fair play.
More to the aspect that they are 'disrespectful' than they are 'evil'.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Isn't this thread just a flame bait?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Considering how I've noted that there has been thirty-ish pages of repeat material to reach the same conclusions we/I made on page six...yeah I'm pretty sure that's all it is at this point.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Bottom line :
If you don´t like pvp, do not join a pvp game/server.
It´s really so simple...
Noone is good or evil for playing the GAME the way they wish to, as long as it´s under the ingame rules.
Rawr.
I think there is a wrong impression that those that don't like griefing or unfair pking and complain about it don't like PvP. I enjoyed playing Dark Age of Camelot. I enjoyed Anarchy Online. I even enjoyed Shadowbane before it went to hell with griefers. PvP when it's ideally done works and is fun. People that choose to play a PvP game have no problems with the idea itself. It's when the system is abused and griefing takes place that people complain.
What many people have issues with is those that stand outside of safe areas and purposefully lay in wait for those of lower level for an easy kill. They usually hide behind the idea that they are role playing a robber, etc. No they are killing lower level players because it's easy. They take pleasure in making the playtime of another player miserable. There is no challenge in what they do.
This is what happen in Shadowbane and Ultima Online before it. In SB the idea was that players would fight other players to control areas. Guilds were fight other guilds and lay siege to their cities. If you are leveling in an area others would come and try to drive you out. When the game first launched it was fun. Once I got to the main island I got into a group and we fighting in an area to gain money. Many were from a guild and were hoping to save up enough first to get better weapons and armor and then make a small city in some out of the way area. We knew it would be dangerous which is why we even had some others off to the side as spotters so we wouldn't be jumped unaware. Others were joining to simply level like me. It was fun. Some higher levels tried to attack us while we healed up but then we took after them to drive them away. Numbers saved us. Slowly over time what happen was groups of high levels were coming around to stop newbies from even establishing themselves. Purposefully targeting low levels and not others of their own level or rank.
It got so bad that the developers were forced to increase the leveling range of the newbie island so people could level up even further so they wouldn't be prey to those on the main island once they got there. You couldn't walk out of the npc controls cities on the main island without being attacked. It was unreasonable to expect everyone to group before heading out due to the different times people played. It made joining groups already out in the field impossible. Pick up groups weren't possible as a result and that really is how majority of people play MMOs.
This type of thing happen in Ultima Online I believe. The system was abused with people targeting players that wanted to craft (clearly weren't capable of fighting back at times. That's one example. This is why Trammel was created. People still say it ruined the game. No it saved that game from going under. PvP is abused by certain group of players when there is no structure (Frontier in DAoC, etc) and there is a reason why FFA games either die in time ("prey" leave) or stay incredibly small and niche.
Those that act in this manner, who purposefully abuse the system setup, know exactly what they are doing. They know full well that their "enjoyment" comes at the expense of others. They know they are making others miserable. Those that do this I do not believe at all are really kind people in real life. How you act when you have anonymity I believe shows the type of person you are really are and who you really want to be.
Its really not that simple, I play on PVP servers almost exclusively, and am a pure carebear at heart.
I just hope that people will behave themselves. (play honorably and all the jazz)
But I never expect them to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When you are in a faction then "ganking" is totally ok in my opinion. I will distinguish this from unfair "griefing" which I define as almost exploit like camping of respawns or graveyards, etc.
But "ganking" (as defined as very high level killing low level) is totally within the spirit of role playing your faction. In fact, it would be against the spirit of the game to let that little orc run by while Aragorn simply watches and lets him pass and cause his mischief. And if I am a weak little human ranger aspiring to be Aragorn, I total expect that a high level Orc warrior will kill me on sight. What kind of wuss Orc warrior would let a weak little human walk right by him?
Now, if the game is set up so that it is too easy to "gank," then that is the fault of the game not the players.
That is just my opinion as an avid PVP fan who on occassion would sneak into enemy cities as a rogue and take out low-level evil Orcs who were too careless. The challenge was that the game makes it hard to remain unnoticed in those cities, and the high levels are all around trying to find me. Good times, good times...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I love how you keep reposting that the thread should be over because you're right. I'm not being facetious here - it genuinely does entertain me that you've been doing that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes, because when some one says 'I' and 'we', they really only mean 'I'.
Yes you are being facetious, because you have to read and interpret the statement wrong to achieve the end goal.
Now here's something that wouldn't be facetious; you contributing a valid comment.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin