#5 - Writing off a studio...hmmm Like how most of the world of gaming has written off Astrum Nival and gPotato for Allods Online? You realize of course it was quite valid.
5. Best to keep an open mind unless it is extremely obvious they are done. Some may appear to be going down the road of destruction and doom but then find a way to pull it out.
4. To be honest in this day and time and for the business aspect it is all about the money. Honestly, do you think they are putting in all that hard work and time for free? No, of course not they expect to make money. If you have a gargage sale you expect to make money off what you are selling. Maybe not (hopefully not) a vast amount but that is why you are doing it to make some money off the stuff you no longer need or want.
Yes, the gamers should be listened to. Many listen, we don't think they do because we don't see our sugestions or claims change. Truth is there are some things depending on the foundation and operation of the game they may not allow for those to be implemented. It would be nice to see them post this and briefly explain so at least we as gamers could attempt to understand or at least know they had looked at what put out there.
3. Anger never gets anything accomplished. You get angery and start shouting and peeling off the words that tell others that you just can't speak any better. In return your words fall on deaf ears and you get ignored, unless of course you are answered by the same mentality thus it is a wasted battle and if that is a dev that jumps into that battle they should not be in the postion they are in.
2. Everyone has ideas. Just because it is yours does not make it best. In fact mixed ideas sometimes are better than one persons view. The ones that sit and work on creating a game is not one persons ideas it is a team throwing it all in and hashing it out to come up with the best or better choice. There is no I in Team and Team is what makes things like this work better.
1.This is something that is hard not to do sometimes, sadly. We are human and the write-ups and previews are designed to do just that. It is a hard blow though when we actually get to play and find that it is not what we were so excited over. Truth is many times it is not. The roughness takes some fine tuning even after release and even then sometimes it does not meet our expectations. That is why I have gotten to where I have developed the attitude to just wait and see. It helps with the let down a great deal.
I'll disagree with # 5, so far I haven't seen many examples of studios making a game I don't like turning it all around and making one that i do.
On that basis Cryptic is on perma-avoid and NCSoft has been on the edge for years. (yet I keep forgiving them)
Biggest mistake I see players making, purchasing lifetime subs and preordering expensive sets long before they can really know much about the gameplay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The best way to vote about a studio or game is with your wallet. I am not about giving second chances when most studios don't give a damn if they sell you a pile of crap because they just go to the media hyping up the next game and trying to get consumers to buy their bull again.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
At first I thought this was going to be something about mistakes players make while playing games, and I was thinking how there really are no mistakes a player can make in a game. Every legal action is a legal action.
But now I see this is actually a list of mistakes players make on this website. And I agree with all of them.
What this guys said...I agree as well. I think some people on this forum refuse to admit they make mistakes hence the wall of txt on thier posts.
In example 5 the writer is just saying that even though some publishers disappoint beyond redemption. But trying a game and being surprised could be a good thing. This is not saying give all games a chance just that you may be surprised.
Yes I consider those I win buttons for folks unwilling to go about it the hard way.
Again, there is absolutely nothing to actually 'win.' Your argument would be valid if this was a PvP-centric game, where someone else purchasing those items actually had a leg up on you AND could actually effect your gameplay. However, they cannot do so in LotRO: Outside of any bruising of your ego or sensibilities, someone getting any of those items has zero bearing on your actual gameplay.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
5# I agree, some studios have done and are doing bad things. Still it leads to my main point:
Judging games by what they were at launch and not what they are now.
4# Devs do it for passion, execs do it for money. Money is major player and there is certain misconseption on both sides, one you can copy wow and get it's place, by lot of investors, two if game doesn't replace wow it's a failure. So there hasn't been one success since wow? Also, what does people realy expect from MMORPG and traditional fantasy one... Sometimes I wonder why everyone seems so blind...
On hype, yes wrong people in wrong places lead to disasters,same as overhype I'm expecting this from SWTOR...
Also, FC has implemented lot of player suggestions in AO... Still, can't give all the credit cause they can't keep their promised deadlines...
I never write a studio off but I am not blind to their past efforts and may be a little more careful getting involved.
Point 5.
GW2 certainly has a heck of a hype meter rating but I think its more than the hype. The biggest fans are the folks that played the original and know what a great company ANet is. I would be very surprised if GW2 didn't turn out to be a great game..not to mention...CRUSHED !!! I'm counting on it for a long long time as my MMO home.
Regarding number 4, there are game designers and then there are producers who pays for it all. If producers want something like WoW then you as a game designer cant do jack shit, if you want their money to develop.
In the current MMO industry, based on AAA titles being released, it is all about the money because people in Suits, who want to invest and make money are calling the shots. That is why no AAA title has been released in the past few years that does not reuse WoWs basic elements of themepark, casual and fast/easy quest based advancement.
We have only in the indy companies to rely on innovativation and thinking outside of the box and they dont have any money. Why? For above stated reasons, they cant find a publisher to give them the dough because all they want are WoW clones.
Also it is interesting that you list number 2 here but in your list of developer misstakes you dont mention anything about listening to your customers. I can only summise that you think us customers should just shut up because we dont know anything.
We the customers are the ones that ultimately pay the bills and use their product. Them NOT listening to us is just shere arrogance on their side.
And many, MANY beta players have voiced valid and constructive concerns before games like WAR and AoC were released. Just to be ignored by the devs. Probably why so many people now respond with anger because they know that the devs wont give a shit what you think or say.
Also, since we are paying, they need to serve us so in no way are we obliged to be polite to them as they need to be to you. Problem is that customers are so many so to use that ultimate power of withdrawing all, or most of the, the funds is dificult to do.
Yay, for violating most of the numbers he posted. I love the irony.
I agree most with this point. That's why I'm worried when a company doesn't have an open beta before launch. Take Rift as an example. Not everyone is excited about the gameplay and people talk of similarity to other MMOs, but you could tell Trion was proud of the game when they made by the open beta available. It was truely open to anyone and it was for more than a day or two. Don't like it? Fine. But you got the chance to see if it was for you and you could play it without any serious bugs or server issues.
This is why I will never preorder a game again. Show me the open beta. I don't want to be burned by hype.
As for the specific example of GW2 in this point, I think when you try to do something a little different -- in this case try to eliminate or at least reduce the need for the "holy trinity" of MMORPG gaming, then you deserve hype. Its about time someone did something about tank = spam taunt, healer = spam heal, etc. Now, with that said, show me the open beta, I still won't preorder!
Except im replacing Devs with Producers, they are the ones who have the say when the game comes out and the overall investment in resources to produce quality and originality
The WoW clone synrdome is really a "safe investment formula" for a predicable return on investment, originality is to risky, thats why smaller companies are being more original, they dont have much to loose and a lot to gain.
Again originality and quailty are expensive, thats why I dont jump on every new MMO that comes out, and I come here to see the reviews first, mostly because Im "Casting" a vote to wait and see so producers know that Alpha release garbage will not be encouraged with my money. If everyone "Slows down" like this topic is about, then I believe that producers will front more time and money for a AAA MMO, or not make one at all, saving us from more trash.
They are making money off of suckers that rush out and buy new everyone new MMO at release hoping it will be the "next WoW killer", its not the Devs fault, its the Producers that wont allow talented Devs......"Develop"
As far as too number 5 writing off a studio. I have to say I have written of 2 studios completely. Turbine, and Cryptic. There acts are so bad I had to write them off. I know a lot of folks are going to say what about SOE. While the SWG made me very angry indeed , I still to this day play EQ2.
As far as to numbers 2 and 3 using anger to demand code changes and my thoughts are always right. All one has to do is take a look at my posting to be aware of that. I am surprised that I don't have 3 titles, most hated poster, most flamed poster, or most warned poster. Any of those would work.
I have to respectfully disagree about number 4 its all about the money. Ahem yes its always about the money. All one has to do is look at the item store that lotro and that sto have. Hello.
Oh well crawling back under the rock from whence I came.
If you don't like item malls, then how come you still play EQ2? I played that game for 6 years. Its still one of the best games out there. But SOE and the devs greed chased me away.
This post exhibits what really is a 5a.
People let negative feelings towards a studio cloud their judgement. This person brings up SoEs Station cash system and assumes its bad and the SoE devs are greedy because it exists. However this person clearly does not know that this system has had ZERO impact on the game in nay negative way. Also, SoE gives out ridiculous amounts of free stuff for EQ2. They just gave out a free wolf mount for instance. Also an unilimited server transfer day. They give out free packs of their card game every month which often results in even more free in game loot. Yes, some of it may be hooks to entice people to spend money, but it has a POSITIVE effect on the people that dont ever spend a cent, not a negative one.
Oh and people STILL dont realize that the SWG NGE was not all SoE's doing, their hand was forced to some extent. For all we know NGE could have been 100% Lucas Arts (probably not true but more likely it was more than 50%)
#1 Really high hype can affect game in a really negative way on its launch. People relly pretty much on a "written word", a short gameplay footage etc. and then they get huge dissapointment in the end. As a result, the game receive much more hate than it should. People need to lower their expectations nowadays.
#2 Ive seen many times on various forums, blogs etc. that some person demanded from dev's to apply his idea about XY feature. Some of them actually are convinced that they are much smarter than the guys who made the game. Let developers do what they think is best, whether it be their own doom.
#3 There is one part of mistake #2 in here. However, there are players who didnt liked a tiniest issue in XY feature about a game, and they cast a ton of hatred on forums about it. Other then threatening of quitting said game because of that, there is hating on developers, company, performance of #2 etc. In short - bunch of dust because of nothing.
On the other hand, #4 and #5 can sometime appear to be caused by a companies alone, yet in a rare cases, a mistake from players' side can happen on that ones to.
My 2 cents. BTW english is not my native
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Comments
#5 - Writing off a studio...hmmm Like how most of the world of gaming has written off Astrum Nival and gPotato for Allods Online? You realize of course it was quite valid.
My thoughts.
5. Best to keep an open mind unless it is extremely obvious they are done. Some may appear to be going down the road of destruction and doom but then find a way to pull it out.
4. To be honest in this day and time and for the business aspect it is all about the money. Honestly, do you think they are putting in all that hard work and time for free? No, of course not they expect to make money. If you have a gargage sale you expect to make money off what you are selling. Maybe not (hopefully not) a vast amount but that is why you are doing it to make some money off the stuff you no longer need or want.
Yes, the gamers should be listened to. Many listen, we don't think they do because we don't see our sugestions or claims change. Truth is there are some things depending on the foundation and operation of the game they may not allow for those to be implemented. It would be nice to see them post this and briefly explain so at least we as gamers could attempt to understand or at least know they had looked at what put out there.
3. Anger never gets anything accomplished. You get angery and start shouting and peeling off the words that tell others that you just can't speak any better. In return your words fall on deaf ears and you get ignored, unless of course you are answered by the same mentality thus it is a wasted battle and if that is a dev that jumps into that battle they should not be in the postion they are in.
2. Everyone has ideas. Just because it is yours does not make it best. In fact mixed ideas sometimes are better than one persons view. The ones that sit and work on creating a game is not one persons ideas it is a team throwing it all in and hashing it out to come up with the best or better choice. There is no I in Team and Team is what makes things like this work better.
1.This is something that is hard not to do sometimes, sadly. We are human and the write-ups and previews are designed to do just that. It is a hard blow though when we actually get to play and find that it is not what we were so excited over. Truth is many times it is not. The roughness takes some fine tuning even after release and even then sometimes it does not meet our expectations. That is why I have gotten to where I have developed the attitude to just wait and see. It helps with the let down a great deal.
Gikku
I'll disagree with # 5, so far I haven't seen many examples of studios making a game I don't like turning it all around and making one that i do.
On that basis Cryptic is on perma-avoid and NCSoft has been on the edge for years. (yet I keep forgiving them)
Biggest mistake I see players making, purchasing lifetime subs and preordering expensive sets long before they can really know much about the gameplay.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The best way to vote about a studio or game is with your wallet. I am not about giving second chances when most studios don't give a damn if they sell you a pile of crap because they just go to the media hyping up the next game and trying to get consumers to buy their bull again.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
What this guys said...I agree as well. I think some people on this forum refuse to admit they make mistakes hence the wall of txt on thier posts.
In example 5 the writer is just saying that even though some publishers disappoint beyond redemption. But trying a game and being surprised could be a good thing. This is not saying give all games a chance just that you may be surprised.
Again, there is absolutely nothing to actually 'win.' Your argument would be valid if this was a PvP-centric game, where someone else purchasing those items actually had a leg up on you AND could actually effect your gameplay. However, they cannot do so in LotRO: Outside of any bruising of your ego or sensibilities, someone getting any of those items has zero bearing on your actual gameplay.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Is this where all the people which fall into #1-5 post their opinions, thus cementing their positions therein?
5# I agree, some studios have done and are doing bad things. Still it leads to my main point:
Judging games by what they were at launch and not what they are now.
4# Devs do it for passion, execs do it for money. Money is major player and there is certain misconseption on both sides, one you can copy wow and get it's place, by lot of investors, two if game doesn't replace wow it's a failure. So there hasn't been one success since wow? Also, what does people realy expect from MMORPG and traditional fantasy one... Sometimes I wonder why everyone seems so blind...
On hype, yes wrong people in wrong places lead to disasters,same as overhype I'm expecting this from SWTOR...
Also, FC has implemented lot of player suggestions in AO... Still, can't give all the credit cause they can't keep their promised deadlines...
I agree with all points.
On point one.
I never write a studio off but I am not blind to their past efforts and may be a little more careful getting involved.
Point 5.
GW2 certainly has a heck of a hype meter rating but I think its more than the hype. The biggest fans are the folks that played the original and know what a great company ANet is. I would be very surprised if GW2 didn't turn out to be a great game..not to mention...CRUSHED !!! I'm counting on it for a long long time as my MMO home.
*cough* so SOE commits the biggest MMO mass murder in gaming history and we should just forgive and forget...
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
Yay, for violating most of the numbers he posted. I love the irony.
i agree
1. Getting Excited Before Playing
I agree most with this point. That's why I'm worried when a company doesn't have an open beta before launch. Take Rift as an example. Not everyone is excited about the gameplay and people talk of similarity to other MMOs, but you could tell Trion was proud of the game when they made by the open beta available. It was truely open to anyone and it was for more than a day or two. Don't like it? Fine. But you got the chance to see if it was for you and you could play it without any serious bugs or server issues.
This is why I will never preorder a game again. Show me the open beta. I don't want to be burned by hype.
As for the specific example of GW2 in this point, I think when you try to do something a little different -- in this case try to eliminate or at least reduce the need for the "holy trinity" of MMORPG gaming, then you deserve hype. Its about time someone did something about tank = spam taunt, healer = spam heal, etc. Now, with that said, show me the open beta, I still won't preorder!
edit: funky formatting
I think im with the first poster on here "Yamota"
Except im replacing Devs with Producers, they are the ones who have the say when the game comes out and the overall investment in resources to produce quality and originality
The WoW clone synrdome is really a "safe investment formula" for a predicable return on investment, originality is to risky, thats why smaller companies are being more original, they dont have much to loose and a lot to gain.
Again originality and quailty are expensive, thats why I dont jump on every new MMO that comes out, and I come here to see the reviews first, mostly because Im "Casting" a vote to wait and see so producers know that Alpha release garbage will not be encouraged with my money. If everyone "Slows down" like this topic is about, then I believe that producers will front more time and money for a AAA MMO, or not make one at all, saving us from more trash.
They are making money off of suckers that rush out and buy new everyone new MMO at release hoping it will be the "next WoW killer", its not the Devs fault, its the Producers that wont allow talented Devs......"Develop"
This post exhibits what really is a 5a.
People let negative feelings towards a studio cloud their judgement. This person brings up SoEs Station cash system and assumes its bad and the SoE devs are greedy because it exists. However this person clearly does not know that this system has had ZERO impact on the game in nay negative way. Also, SoE gives out ridiculous amounts of free stuff for EQ2. They just gave out a free wolf mount for instance. Also an unilimited server transfer day. They give out free packs of their card game every month which often results in even more free in game loot. Yes, some of it may be hooks to entice people to spend money, but it has a POSITIVE effect on the people that dont ever spend a cent, not a negative one.
Oh and people STILL dont realize that the SWG NGE was not all SoE's doing, their hand was forced to some extent. For all we know NGE could have been 100% Lucas Arts (probably not true but more likely it was more than 50%)
cannot agree more with #1, #2, and #3
#1 Really high hype can affect game in a really negative way on its launch. People relly pretty much on a "written word", a short gameplay footage etc. and then they get huge dissapointment in the end. As a result, the game receive much more hate than it should. People need to lower their expectations nowadays.
#2 Ive seen many times on various forums, blogs etc. that some person demanded from dev's to apply his idea about XY feature. Some of them actually are convinced that they are much smarter than the guys who made the game. Let developers do what they think is best, whether it be their own doom.
#3 There is one part of mistake #2 in here. However, there are players who didnt liked a tiniest issue in XY feature about a game, and they cast a ton of hatred on forums about it. Other then threatening of quitting said game because of that, there is hating on developers, company, performance of #2 etc. In short - bunch of dust because of nothing.
On the other hand, #4 and #5 can sometime appear to be caused by a companies alone, yet in a rare cases, a mistake from players' side can happen on that ones to.
My 2 cents. BTW english is not my native
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online