Originally posted by Laneo Originally posted by bobbler you should really keep your mouth closed unless you know of what you speak. lineage has 4,100,000 accounts WoW only has 1,500,00. also i dont think you should be tlaking here like that. WoW brought fanboys that are very annoying in to the world of mmorpgs they think they know everything about anything and they will always start ot flame and cuss when someones says WoW is not as good as X mmorpg. and it is NOT the fastest growing mmorpg lineage and RYL have avery large player database and are still increasing. Hello Mr ***** 1.5 million play for fun 4.1 million work for money You obviously cant read between the lines! STFU!!
Originally posted by Copeland Dark and Light is the next big thing if it doesnt go vaporware on us.
the next thing where you get bored after 6 months
if this is another warrior, mage, archer game with some quests but almost no end game, hope really it isnt that at all otherwise you will see threads " bah i played it for 3 months but got bored"
Originally posted by spizz Originally posted by Copeland Dark and Light is the next big thing if it doesnt go vaporware on us.
the next thing where you get bored after 6 months
if this is another warrior, mage, archer game with some quests but almost no end game, hope really it isnt that at all otherwise you will see threads " bah i played it for 3 months but got bored"
Nah Dark and Light is modeled after Eve-online where player alliances control and battle over major regions. Honestly i cant even play the old style stagnate games like WoW or EQ because i like having players determine allies and enemies. Player politics is always more fun that storyline politics. When large groups of players (by large i mean 100+ people) are forced to work together to beat another large group of people and there are real defensable positions its always more fun than fake AI raid encounters. The only real flaw is that theres no way to do counter espionage in a game. This means that every alliance is full of spies. Takes alot of the fun out of it but theres still more pleasure in it than pve. Theres always a place for PvE in these types of games but its not the main focus. In order for their system to work they'll have to have a hands off approach like CCP does with EVE where if it can be done within the game mechanics its legal to do. If you dont know what i'm talking about you're really missing out. Eve-online doesnt really come to life until you get out of the empires where the storyline ends and the players take over.
Let's face facts here, folks. If you're reading this board, then odds are, WOW was not targeted at you anyway.
WOW was targeted at newbie players - and at casual newbie players, at that. The fact that many less-casual players paid for the game for a few months is an added bonus to them, but it's NOT their target market.
Of the 1.5 million WOW players, my guess would be at least 2/3 are brand new to the genre: they've never played an MMOG before. (That's a guess, could be a bit off, based on observations ingame and the lack of serious drops in the subscription rates of other MMOs).
Of the people most enjoying WOW today, I'd wager that the majority are casual players - those who play less than, say, 15 hours per week.
They targeted a specific market: casual players. And they marketed hard enough to get a LOT of new players into the genre. They did both things very well.
Those players will get bored with the game eventually, and move on to other games. And Blizzard will keep advertising, and keep drawing in new players. It's the third largest game in the history of the genre - a very impressive feat for a US based game (the two top dogs are both Korean). The fact that their success was more due to marketing than innovative design does not detract from that success.
WOW wasn't built to keep my attention - or yours. It was made for the casual player, made for the person new to MMO gaming. And for that audience, it was made very well.
Yeha I played Wow duribng the stress test and i it didn't impress me that much. I prefered DAoC still as its more fun and less boring.
More fun and less boring is kinda too simply put I guess. I guess the play style of Wow is a little slower than DAoC. The group dynimacs are much more simpler. The qeust were OK but there was allot of runing around. The whole world is a cartoon and I liked the realistic art work better. Riding the ballons might be neat the 1st ballon ride but then you should be able to teleport or something.
Maybe it was made for more casual gamers who will quit after they get to 60 and that should take them several months to a year? But Daoc just seems to have allot more to do,
I played the trial of EvE and I pretty much got owned by going to the wrong place. I guess if I played more I would have been able to figure it out?
I tried to go back and play shodowbane for the free period. OMG.. of the sevreal sevres they had originally they were down to three. They should have been able to allow you to move your old tune a surviving server . Maybe they did and I missed out on it?
As far as new game DnL looks pretty interesting. The last trailer I saw or the 1st movie from E3 looked like there was allot to be desired. I hope its more fun than that trailer. It was the toon runing to get to the battle and then he did and his girl friend went to his grave ...
I like the fact that mythic has kept upgrading DAoC its a totally different game then when it first came out and much better now. I wonder how they are going to handle Imperitor? It doesn't look like it will be all that fun from what I've seen so far.
Originally posted by Owyn Of the 1.5 million WOW players, my guess would be at least 2/3 are brand new to the genre: they've never played an MMOG before. (That's a guess, could be a bit off, based on observations ingame and the lack of serious drops in the subscription rates of other MMOs). Of the people most enjoying WOW today, I'd wager that the majority are casual players - those who play less than, say, 15 hours per week. They targeted a specific market: casual players. And they marketed hard enough to get a LOT of new players into the genre. They did both things very well. Those players will get bored with the game eventually, and move on to other games. And Blizzard will keep advertising, and keep drawing in new players. It's the third largest game in the history of the genre - a very impressive feat for a US based game (the two top dogs are both Korean). The fact that their success was more due to marketing than innovative design does not detract from that success. WOW wasn't built to keep my attention - or yours. It was made for the casual player, made for the person new to MMO gaming. And for that audience, it was made very well.
Everquest has closed half it's servers. It stands to reason they lost at least half their subscription base when WoW came out, maybe more. Why they haven't lowered their subscription cost(in fact they're about to raise it) is a complete mystery. I think they're just trying to milk the die hards for everything they've got until they quit altogether.
I agree that WoW will keep attracting new players. It's by far the most accessible of all the MMOs that have come out.
The people who zoomed up to 60 in WoW and burned themselves out are in need of a reality check I think. They want to live in a game and maybe some haven't realized that they've grown up a little(I would hope) and that maybe these games should just be a pasttime--not a lifestyle.
Ever since I played Starcraft, I have been into strategy games. Ever since I played Diablo, I've been into RPGs. And although WoW wasnt my gateway into MMORPGs like it was the first two genres (Ultima Online at 11 years old), it was for alot of people in America. Comparing American gaming to Korean gaming is like comparing how African tribes get those giant holes in their ears, and then punk rockers here do it. While they think it's normal over there to get holes in their ears, we think it's for freaks when they do it over here. Thats why getting holes in your ear is so common in African tribes compared to American culture, because they view it differetly. While gaming IS growing in America, it is still "geeky" to game while in Korea, its common. Not to mention, you arent AS geeky playing WoW as Everquest 2 (No, Im not saying you should play WoW to be cool, Im trying to show it from a non-gamers prospective. There is nothing wrong with being a geek).
i play on australian servers because racism is acceptable there
Out of the possible games listed i would have to say UO 2 could be the wow beater if done properly...Old school Uo skill based with flashy new graphics would have me back in a heart beat...However im probably just dreaming.
Old-school UO was orgasmic. Even if the AOS patch made UO worse, that doesnt say much considering it was the best game. Now UO is like a Diablo 2 duelist tournament, everyone is elite and the few that play for something other than PVP are treated like crap by the elitist (but once great) community. It's because all of the good players left for WoW and EQ2.
i play on australian servers because racism is acceptable there
Originally posted by Anofalye Call me a selfish, unfair, self centered NA but...
EQ at it prime was 80% of the MMORPG online players in NA.
No EQ at its prime did not have 80% of the NA MMORPG gamers. EQ released around 1999. It reached its prime around 2000-2001, when it reached over 400k accounts. Figure at least 200k were North American players. (EQ has a very large amount of European players.) EQ had closer to 30%-40%. Half of what you claim.
UO was still going strong during 200-2001, with 200k accounts . So was AC with 100k accounts. That's at minimum 150k North American players for UO and AC. Can't forget Lineage 1. It had a sizeable North American player population (1st and 2nd generation Asian-Americans mostly.) Easily 50k. Then factor in all the "little" MMORPGs. Like Astonia, Runescape, Edge of Chaos, TDZK, and many more. All together they had roughly 50k North American players. That is a total of 250k North American players not playing EQ.
Furthermore, a very sizeable number of EQ's "players" were multi-accounts. Especially during the height of EQ. So yes it can be said EQ had over 400k accounts. But it had roughly 300k individuale human players playing. Many players had 2-6 seperate multi-accounts! LOL!
WoW never break 50% of the NA market and is fast on the decline.
Raw numbers are as unfair as this.
You might be right with this point of yours. But the reason WoW will not have more North American players than EQ is because when EQ reached its prime, it had virtually no competition. UO was an old first generation MMORPG vs EQ which was 2nd generation. AC released in the shadow of EQ. Right now WoW has competition from DAoC, AO, EQ, EQ2, AC, SWG, CoH, Lin1, Lin2, As3, RS, and many, many more MMORPGs. Too much choices for the North American market.
But in the end, what matters is WoW has enough players to keep it alive and running, and to re-coup its investment costs. WoW is successful in North America. And the rest of the world.
Originally posted by Orcc One of the biggest undertakings ever? How? World of Warcraft is a blantant clone with little content aside from getting gear and fighting. Call it bashing if you will but im not one whos going to be gushing over how great it is. Its fun for awhile, it has some good ideas (although most arent very original) and its overhyped. If WoW is so great, why are you asking for a SEQUEL whens its only been out for 6 months?
I think what he meant is that WoW sold more than 1.5 MILLION copies around the globe, still not selling in some countries! the point being: WoW is (not sure) the best selling MMORPG ever... It doesnt have to be great, it just sells! oh and a the sequel question: simply because people who like something that gets boring after a while of playing lvl 60 want something more. And I admitt, Id like a sequel/big patch/expansion. because it would be fun! If your opinion is different than mine, dont buy a sequel..!
Comments
Word...
the next thing where you get bored after 6 months
if this is another warrior, mage, archer game with some quests but almost no end game, hope really it isnt that at all otherwise you will see threads " bah i played it for 3 months but got bored"
the next thing where you get bored after 6 months
if this is another warrior, mage, archer game with some quests but almost no end game, hope really it isnt that at all otherwise you will see threads " bah i played it for 3 months but got bored"
Nah Dark and Light is modeled after Eve-online where player alliances control and battle over major regions. Honestly i cant even play the old style stagnate games like WoW or EQ because i like having players determine allies and enemies. Player politics is always more fun that storyline politics. When large groups of players (by large i mean 100+ people) are forced to work together to beat another large group of people and there are real defensable positions its always more fun than fake AI raid encounters. The only real flaw is that theres no way to do counter espionage in a game. This means that every alliance is full of spies. Takes alot of the fun out of it but theres still more pleasure in it than pve. Theres always a place for PvE in these types of games but its not the main focus. In order for their system to work they'll have to have a hands off approach like CCP does with EVE where if it can be done within the game mechanics its legal to do. If you dont know what i'm talking about you're really missing out. Eve-online doesnt really come to life until you get out of the empires where the storyline ends and the players take over.
Make a difference!
Let's face facts here, folks. If you're reading this board, then odds are, WOW was not targeted at you anyway.
WOW was targeted at newbie players - and at casual newbie players, at that. The fact that many less-casual players paid for the game for a few months is an added bonus to them, but it's NOT their target market.
Of the 1.5 million WOW players, my guess would be at least 2/3 are brand new to the genre: they've never played an MMOG before. (That's a guess, could be a bit off, based on observations ingame and the lack of serious drops in the subscription rates of other MMOs).
Of the people most enjoying WOW today, I'd wager that the majority are casual players - those who play less than, say, 15 hours per week.
They targeted a specific market: casual players. And they marketed hard enough to get a LOT of new players into the genre. They did both things very well.
Those players will get bored with the game eventually, and move on to other games. And Blizzard will keep advertising, and keep drawing in new players. It's the third largest game in the history of the genre - a very impressive feat for a US based game (the two top dogs are both Korean). The fact that their success was more due to marketing than innovative design does not detract from that success.
WOW wasn't built to keep my attention - or yours. It was made for the casual player, made for the person new to MMO gaming. And for that audience, it was made very well.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
Yeha I played Wow duribng the stress test and i it didn't impress me that much. I prefered DAoC still as its more fun and less boring.
More fun and less boring is kinda too simply put I guess. I guess the play style of Wow is a little slower than DAoC. The group dynimacs are much more simpler. The qeust were OK but there was allot of runing around. The whole world is a cartoon and I liked the realistic art work better. Riding the ballons might be neat the 1st ballon ride but then you should be able to teleport or something.
Maybe it was made for more casual gamers who will quit after they get to 60 and that should take them several months to a year? But Daoc just seems to have allot more to do,
I played the trial of EvE and I pretty much got owned by going to the wrong place. I guess if I played more I would have been able to figure it out?
I tried to go back and play shodowbane for the free period. OMG.. of the sevreal sevres they had originally they were down to three. They should have been able to allow you to move your old tune a surviving server . Maybe they did and I missed out on it?
As far as new game DnL looks pretty interesting. The last trailer I saw or the 1st movie from E3 looked like there was allot to be desired. I hope its more fun than that trailer. It was the toon runing to get to the battle and then he did and his girl friend went to his grave ...
I like the fact that mythic has kept upgrading DAoC its a totally different game then when it first came out and much better now. I wonder how they are going to handle Imperitor? It doesn't look like it will be all that fun from what I've seen so far.
Everquest has closed half it's servers. It stands to reason they lost at least half their subscription base when WoW came out, maybe more. Why they haven't lowered their subscription cost(in fact they're about to raise it) is a complete mystery. I think they're just trying to milk the die hards for everything they've got until they quit altogether.
I agree that WoW will keep attracting new players. It's by far the most accessible of all the MMOs that have come out.
The people who zoomed up to 60 in WoW and burned themselves out are in need of a reality check I think. They want to live in a game and maybe some haven't realized that they've grown up a little(I would hope) and that maybe these games should just be a pasttime--not a lifestyle.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Ever since I played Starcraft, I have been into strategy games. Ever since I played Diablo, I've been into RPGs. And although WoW wasnt my gateway into MMORPGs like it was the first two genres (Ultima Online at 11 years old), it was for alot of people in America. Comparing American gaming to Korean gaming is like comparing how African tribes get those giant holes in their ears, and then punk rockers here do it. While they think it's normal over there to get holes in their ears, we think it's for freaks when they do it over here. Thats why getting holes in your ear is so common in African tribes compared to American culture, because they view it differetly. While gaming IS growing in America, it is still "geeky" to game while in Korea, its common. Not to mention, you arent AS geeky playing WoW as Everquest 2 (No, Im not saying you should play WoW to be cool, Im trying to show it from a non-gamers prospective. There is nothing wrong with being a geek).
Out of the possible games listed i would have to say UO 2 could be the wow beater if done properly...Old school Uo skill based with flashy new graphics would have me back in a heart beat...However im probably just dreaming.
Old-school UO was orgasmic. Even if the AOS patch made UO worse, that doesnt say much considering it was the best game. Now UO is like a Diablo 2 duelist tournament, everyone is elite and the few that play for something other than PVP are treated like crap by the elitist (but once great) community. It's because all of the good players left for WoW and EQ2.
No EQ at its prime did not have 80% of the NA MMORPG gamers. EQ released around 1999. It reached its prime around 2000-2001, when it reached over 400k accounts. Figure at least 200k were North American players. (EQ has a very large amount of European players.) EQ had closer to 30%-40%. Half of what you claim.
UO was still going strong during 200-2001, with 200k accounts . So was AC with 100k accounts. That's at minimum 150k North American players for UO and AC. Can't forget Lineage 1. It had a sizeable North American player population (1st and 2nd generation Asian-Americans mostly.) Easily 50k. Then factor in all the "little" MMORPGs. Like Astonia, Runescape, Edge of Chaos, TDZK, and many more. All together they had roughly 50k North American players. That is a total of 250k North American players not playing EQ.
Furthermore, a very sizeable number of EQ's "players" were multi-accounts. Especially during the height of EQ. So yes it can be said EQ had over 400k accounts. But it had roughly 300k individuale human players playing. Many players had 2-6 seperate multi-accounts! LOL!
WoW never break 50% of the NA market and is fast on the decline.
Raw numbers are as unfair as this.
You might be right with this point of yours. But the reason WoW will not have more North American players than EQ is because when EQ reached its prime, it had virtually no competition. UO was an old first generation MMORPG vs EQ which was 2nd generation. AC released in the shadow of EQ. Right now WoW has competition from DAoC, AO, EQ, EQ2, AC, SWG, CoH, Lin1, Lin2, As3, RS, and many, many more MMORPGs. Too much choices for the North American market.
But in the end, what matters is WoW has enough players to keep it alive and running, and to re-coup its investment costs. WoW is successful in North America. And the rest of the world.
I think what he meant is that WoW sold more than 1.5 MILLION copies around the globe, still not selling in some countries! the point being: WoW is (not sure) the best selling MMORPG ever... It doesnt have to be great, it just sells! oh and a the sequel question: simply because people who like something that gets boring after a while of playing lvl 60 want something more. And I admitt, Id like a sequel/big patch/expansion. because it would be fun! If your opinion is different than mine, dont buy a sequel..!
grtz.
-Schiznea