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If you're thinking of trying EQ2....

TildenTilden Member Posts: 94

There are a few things to consider.

I'm an experienced EQ1 player from waaaay back. I was earnestly anticipating EQ2 when the developers hyped the idea that EQ2 was going to be less raid and more fun.

HYPE: Sony promised a less-intensive game that relied on small groups or solo game-play.

REALITY: EQ2 is all about forced-grouping and raids - the bigger, the better. image

UPDATE: More solo and small group content has been added. The game now throws more balance towards small grouping. The expansion packs, however, are not worth the money, even at $5.99. While nice, we duoed the one Freeport small-group dungeon and confronted greens and a heroic blue. Through poor luck, and bugged HOs, we died fighting the last mob. We were unable to re-enter and it appears you have just 1 shot at doing them. Huge disappointment.

HYPE: Sony promised a death penalty that would be fun.

REALITY: There is no such thing as a "fun" penalty. Not only do you suffer a penalty when you die, but you are penalized when one of your group members die - the ones you are forced to group with. image

UPDATE: The penalty has been reduced, but still lingers. Not as ridiculously harsh as before, but still problematic when group members die. This still punishes grouping more than "helps" cohesion. It still makes more sense to avoid grouping than risk having some a55nut bomb you with penalties.

HYPE: "Balanced" groups would be essential to success; ie, a melee, scout, nuker and healer (at least 1 from each branch).

REALITY: In the mid levels on your forced groups to complete essential class and armor quests, you learn quickly that you need not just one healer, but 2, and they both better be top notch. Mobs hit you twice and you're dead. But the armor quests you'll do will help you survive three or four hits. To get the armor, though, you'll need 2 healers. image

UPDATE: I avoided the armor quests due to the intent to test the game duo. However, I noted less 3^ mobs (Heroics) in the dungeons than before, so I expect those have possibly become easier.

HYPE: Tons of quests that you can do instead of raiding.

REALITY: Questing takes you to about level 15 where you'll need to get a group to finish the quests you get after that. Pretty soon you need to join raids to finish quests. image

UPDATE: An impressive number of quests have been added to the game since I played - some 2000? However, since I started a new character for the test and left my Assassin alone, I only quested pre-20. I imagine that post 20 quests have been expanded and added, also - according to the patch notes.

HYPE: Sony promised a FUN game.

REALITY: Up to about level 20, it's fun. It really is. But you are noticing around level 18 that you are being herded more and more into grouping, more and more into full groups, and more and more into raids.  image

UPDATE: It's still fun to level 20. Unfortunately, I did not get beyond 20 with the test so I cannot comment with certainty about the post 20 game, BUT it appears that the fundamentals of the game have changed and the post 20 game made smoother.

MORE EDIT COMMENTARY: I am impressed with the effort the EQ2 team has made in altering their game. If EQ1 had been as nimble, it wouldn't be combining servers. EQ2 has made serious and effective efforts at making the game FUN. That was their stated goal in the very beginning and I applaud them for having the balls to alter some cherished developer ideas (takes humility) to satisfy the subscriber base.

BUGS: Not sure if there are bugs or intentional penalties, but HOs have been gutted and made harder to accomplish. The timers have been shortened and made nearly impossible to complete when the game "fails" to recognize an advance. I've failed so many HOs in a simple communicative duo where a sword is called for, I provide, but the game does not recognize the advance. Same with my wife. She is signalled to provide a strike, and does so, but the game does not recognize the advance and the timer advances too rapidly for the refresh. AGGRAVATING! If HOs are now random chances to complete, even with perfect timing and proper execution, it would have been nice to be told.

Updated opinion: Worth trying, good for solo and small group action. The game can provide good entertainment for both small and raid-style play. EQ2 seems to be moving to position their game as the emerging service-based MMORPG, rather than "play our way or go to hell" common offering on the market today. With the avalanche of MMORPGs coming out, they're wise to do so.

WORTH THE MONEY, WORTH THE TIME. Too many mind-boggling changes to detail in one post. The detractions to this game are few enough that considering the changes made in just 4 months, I'd expect them to be gone in a very short time. image

Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
--------------------------------------

“There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life.” - Doctor Smith

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Comments

  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384

    I dont know if I agree with you

    so far I have completed 372 Quests and out of those 372 Quests only 13 of them I did with a group of about 2-6 players and 1 quest I did with a Raid party

    That's no exagerration....I can tell you exactly the 13 i did that were in a group and the 1 that was in the raid. All others I either did by myself or with a friend..no need to have a second person with me...I just enjoyed the company (same person in my guild).

    I never had to force group either for the exception of those 13 (heritage and armor quests). It's nothing like FFXI in terms of force grouping.

    2. I was the only healer in my Armor class group. Matter of fact when I was only lvl 17 I was helping a bunch of lvl 23 people with their armor quest in stronghold. It was just me...a lvl 17 Cleric...I wasn't even a Templar yet. Also, out of the 8 groups Ive been involved with I was the only healer. I've never been in a group that needed 2 healers...not even for the heritage quests. The only raid i was in we had 2 healers...then again we had a party of 12. So 2 healers for 10 players are about the same for 1 healer for 5 people. I completed all Armor quests with only me the healer.

    3. I'm lvl 36 and I still enjoy it as much as when I was lvl 8. I guess other people dont....but if you do the quests you dont even know you are lvling it's that quick.

    4. I find this odd....for the most part people are upset because EQ2 is mostly a solo type of game. I mean the only time you ever need a group is when you do the very end of a heritage quest or you venture deep into a dungeon. I've neevr seen someone upset because it's a group forced game. When I think forced-grouped i think FFXI...not EQ2. Not to put FFXI down (people who love groups love FFXI) Im just saying I was thought EQ2 to be a casual player solo kind of game.

    I think lvls 17-lvls 20 was the only time I felt the grind as well as lvls 28-30. Other than that, the lvls and the grind has been very kind to me.

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    En1Gma...you are...level 36.

     

    Reaching level 36 is quite an accomplishment in itself.  However, I would bet that the original poster is analyzing everything from a level 50(or 60 now?) point of view(he may or not have reach it, I was analyzing WoW from a level 60 point of view, despite the fact I stop at around 10, it was an unacceptable ending, stop at 15 in EQ2, because the end game was not going to please me and they didnt marvel me enought to distract me from my driving goal, the end game)!

     

    I would also bet he is an achiever, and that you are either a socialiser or an explorer!

     

    End Game matter a LOT to an achiever, in fact it prolly matter more then everything else, prolly even more then major gameplay aspects.  image  I know, I am an achiever!

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • GorwellGorwell Member Posts: 26

    I consider myself a casual player, and have a specific char that I use to group with a bunch of friends on a Friday, therefore 95% of his time is group play, he is at lvl27 I also have an alt who solos 95% of the time, she is lvl26. The weekly time spent on both is about 5 hours. The conclusion here is it seems pretty balanced between solo and group play as far as I can tell. What I don't know is if this will continue as the levels increase. Yes there are fallow periods that are a grind, I find they tend to be at the high end of every 10 levels (i.e. 16-18, 27-29).

    I've never been pursuaded by hype, especially about dying being fun image .

    Also I gave up EQ1 at lvl51 because I found no opportunity to solo anywhere, although 3 years have passed since then.

    You either enjoy the game or you don't play. I've tried several different games, and they all have the same elements, and criticisms, and I bet the ones I haven't play aren't much different.

    /end ramble

     

     

  • JodokaiJodokai Member Posts: 1,621



    Originally posted by Tilden

    There are a few things to consider.
    I'm an experienced EQ1 player from waaaay back. I was earnestly anticipating EQ2 when the developers hyped the idea that EQ2 was going to be less raid and more fun.
    HYPE: Sony promised a less-intensive game that relied on small groups or solo game-play.
    REALITY: EQ2 is all about forced-grouping and raids - the bigger, the better. image
    Totally false. Some of the best XP I've ever gotten was with me (scout/bard/troubador) and a Templar. No downtime between fights and tore through things. I also don't EVER remember SOE saying this would be a solo game.
    HYPE: Sony promised a death penalty that would be fun.
    REALITY: There is no such thing as a "fun" penalty. Not only do you suffer a penalty when you die, but you are penalized when one of your group members die - the ones you are forced to group with. image
    Again you're not forced to group, and people will also complain if there is NO penalty. You can't really win with this one as your damned if you do damned if you don't
    HYPE: "Balanced" groups would be essential to success; ie, a melee, scout, nuker and healer (at least 1 from each branch).
    REALITY: In the mid levels on your forced groups to complete essential class and armor quests, you learn quickly that you need not just one healer, but 2, and they both better be top notch. Mobs hit you twice and you're dead. But the armor quests you'll do will help you survive three or four hits. To get the armor, though, you'll need 2 healers. image
    This makes me wonder if how much you've actually played the game. If you had actually done the essential class quests, you know most of them were instanced and you're the only one that can get in, making grouping, not only not necessary, but impossible even if you wanted to.
    HYPE: Tons of quests that you can do instead of raiding.
    REALITY: Questing takes you to about level 15 where you'll need to get a group to finish the quests you get after that. Pretty soon you need to join raids to finish quests. image
    I also never grouped on quests on my level 24 character, and that's halfway to endgame. So I know for a fact that I can do half the game without a group.
    HYPE: Sony promised a FUN game.
    REALITY: Up to about level 20, it's fun. It really is. But you are noticing around level 18 that you are being herded more and more into grouping, more and more into full groups, and more and more into raids.  image
    I think we've pretty much covered how off you are on the forced grouping
    So, if you are into grouping all the time to grind out experience (more like grind out experience to pay off the hideous amounts of death penalty debt you keep piling up), and if you're into mass raids for almost non-existant chances to get thin loots, then this game is for you.
    WARNING: If you are a casual player who likes to solo or just duo, then this game is most definitely not for you. EQ1 was better suited to solo play. Also, if you do like to group, EQ2 will be a very tough game to crack; almost everyone is in their upper levels and the low level areas are ghost towns. The place to begin this game was with everyone else when the game was released.
    EQ1 was a grind. EQ2 is twice the grind.
    EQ1 is a grind for the sake of grinding. In EQ2 the only time I "grind" is to complete quests.
  • TildenTilden Member Posts: 94

    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    "I also never grouped on quests on my level 24 character, and that's halfway to endgame. So I know for a fact that I can do half the game without a group."

    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    I know you can solo to level 24 - and even beyond. However, solo at 24 with no quest grouping means you can't have your heritage armor for the 20s - the armor everyone deems so necessary to survival. Without that armor, I suppose you could solo low creatures at an excruciatingly slow pace, but try to take on any 2 or 3^^^ and you're toast.

    Your response leaves more out than it imparts.

    Games:
    WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
    --------------------------------------

    “There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life.” - Doctor Smith

  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384

    The armor quests and heritage quests require you to group. I think YOU SHOULD group with those quests

    Plus the Armor Quests/Heritage Quests total is around about 30 Quests total. So basically, you need to group for 30 out of 1,570 quests. Not too shabby for those who love to solo if you ask me.

    Also, I have around 17 people who are lvl 45+ in my guild (max lvl is 50). They solo a lot as well...so the quests group isn't required even for higher lvls as well.

    I just don't see where the original poster thinks he needs a group for many quests after lvl 24 or that you need 2 priests to effectively group because I found the game to be the exact opposite.

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • NoubourneNoubourne Member Posts: 349


    Originally posted by Tilden
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    "I also never grouped on quests on my level 24 character, and that's halfway to endgame. So I know for a fact that I can do half the game without a group."
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    I know you can solo to level 24 - and even beyond. However, solo at 24 with no quest grouping means you can't have your heritage armor for the 20s - the armor everyone deems so necessary to survival. Without that armor, I suppose you could solo low creatures at an excruciatingly slow pace, but try to take on any 2 or 3^^^ and you're toast.
    Your response leaves more out than it imparts.

    Jok is right, grouping is not necessary. The armor is not required. It's not heritage armor either, and it only lasts you about 10 levels anyway. Near equivalent armor can be purchased from crafters. The only reason to finish all those quests is for prestige to add them to your quest list.

    Real Heritage quests only have an effect if you want to mess with status, and no one makes you do that. You choose to. Yes they require a group. No they don't require a particularly talented one in most cases. Not the ones I have done so far anyway.

    Grouping is so far away from the holy trinity in this game it's ridiculous. You can have 3 healers if you want. You can have a couple druids instead of clerics. Have a shaman and a druid instead of a cleric. You don't need a tank for normal grouping really, either. Unless you're doing some huge named instance, normal questing/xp groups don't even require a healer depending on the area.

    Aren't raids limited to 24 people? Since raids in EQ1 meant zerg 70+ person forces, ummm, saying this game requires more people all the time is so far from the truth that I would venture to say the OP never played either of them. Not to mention you can hop in for a short time and do stuff without a group or raid all the time.

    I have soloed all the way to 38. I grouped a few times BECAUSE I WANTED TO FINISH QUESTS, and other than that I have spent my entire 38 levels soloing quests by myself. Most of my groups consist of seeing someone else in the area where I am questing and partnering up with them for 5-10 minutes to crank it out, then we go our separate ways. I'm a necro, and I've grouped together with any number of classes, it works out well every time. Anywhere from 2-6 people and often for very short periods of time.

    And if you think EQ2 is harder than EQ1, or more of a grind, then you must be off your meds. Soloing in EQ1 is for a few select classes, period. It's widely popular and practiced in EQ2 by classes that would never THINK to solo for XP or questing in EQ1. Most classes in EQ1 can handle 1 mob (IF THAT) of a level that would give them XP. I used to play a cleric and a ranger, and even kiting was a horrific experience that netted less XP gain than a good group. IF you have a solo class, you can solo to about mid 50s before grouping completely overtakes your XP gain rate. And that's only IF you take one of the few solo classes. Solo a monk to 60 in EQ1 for me and tell me how long it takes you. See you in 5 years!!

    Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain

  • JodokaiJodokai Member Posts: 1,621



    Originally posted by Tilden

    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    "I also never grouped on quests on my level 24 character, and that's halfway to endgame. So I know for a fact that I can do half the game without a group."
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    I know you can solo to level 24 - and even beyond. However, solo at 24 with no quest grouping means you can't have your heritage armor for the 20s - the armor everyone deems so necessary to survival. Without that armor, I suppose you could solo low creatures at an excruciatingly slow pace, but try to take on any 2 or 3^^^ and you're toast.
    Your response leaves more out than it imparts.



    So let me see if I understand you correctly: You're upset because you can't solo 2 or 3 mobs that are designed for groups?  Do you see how the logic of that fails?
  • ArleonenisArleonenis Member Posts: 69

    Ok some few words from me (was lvl 25 or 26 paladin and lvl 30 weaponsmith when i quited)

    1. You arent forced to group to level (up to 40 i think) but at this higher end of game you cant solo gray mobs, one guildi was lvl 50 guardian and he was telling that he wasnt able to solo green mobs at that time as they was hitting for far more than he could handle, it was true with few blows = dead


    2. To get access to higher level zones at lower levels (essential for crafters) i was force to do boat quest... 3 person team was slaughtered there so yes raid party was required i never done armor quest, prefered crafted carbonite

    3. I dont felt my char uniques after some time, it was oh i need to kill more mobs for gold, or hell i need to collect more ingredians for crafting (questing wasnt fun as reward wasnt enjoyable... even some nice furniture to my room would be much more appreciated than: another "insert name" vendor crap)

    4. To much monsters in land and to high respawn rate combined with not so big zones, i wasnt able to move exploring and evading some rare aggresive monsters (monsters groups), exploring would be fun when i grayed up zone, but than zone was already explored by me to every little corner

    5. Grouping was fun (group heroic attacks), but finding nice groups was rare, soloing was boring and repetitive

    6. And last spike for coffin was that i dont felt that i do something important, changing something, i was either grinding monsters or grinding tradeskill experience or grinding quest for some diversity... it just sadly stoped to be fun... but yes for few months its really great game just it dont stand the test of time, i get bored and quited, dont have anything to do that was fun for me

  • Veiled_lightVeiled_light Member UncommonPosts: 855

    After lvl 20 any quest i could or have to do i need a group! It would be fine but noones ever on : When they are noone talks to eachother and because of group xp debt people get mad if sumone dies and it breaks the whole group up!

     

    I'm not having fun anymore

  • NihilanthNihilanth Member Posts: 1,357

    [quote]Originally posted by Arleonenis
    [b]Ok some few words from me (was lvl 25 or 26 paladin and lvl 30 weaponsmith when i quited)

    1. You arent forced to group to level (up to 40 i think) but at this higher end of game you cant solo gray mobs, one guildi was lvl 50 guardian and he was telling that he wasnt able to solo green mobs at that time as they was hitting for far more than he could handle, it was true with few blows = dead

    What? Maybe he means GROUP mobs, I can understand that. But at level 41 I can take at YELLOW solo mobs. However, if he was trying to solo a GROUP mob (^ and deffinitely ^^) then ya he may have problems soloing a green, because they are meant to be fought by a GROUP.

    2. To get access to higher level zones at lower levels (essential for crafters) i was force to do boat quest... 3 person team was slaughtered there so yes raid party was required i never done armor quest, prefered crafted carbonite

    You dont have to do the quests. You get autoaccess to every mainland zone at a certain level so you dont have to do the quests.

    Enchanted Lands and Zek: lvl 32
    The Feerrott: lvl 37
    Everfrost: lvl 42

    4. To much monsters in land and to high respawn rate combined with not so big zones, i wasnt able to move exploring and evading some rare aggresive monsters (monsters groups), exploring would be fun when i grayed up zone, but than zone was already explored by me to every little corner

    The mainland zones are very big compared to most MMOs, and there are countless dungeons and secret places to explore up to lvl 50, i have a hard time believing you've explored it all.

    5. Grouping was fun (group heroic attacks), but finding nice groups was rare, soloing was boring and repetitive

    again, cant comment on anthing other than getting groups. it depends on server population and the time you're on, i personally dont have too much trouble

    [/quote]

    this coming from a 41 paladin

    Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
    Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
    XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT

  • NihilanthNihilanth Member Posts: 1,357


    Originally posted by Veiled_light
    After lvl 20 any quest i could or have to do i need a group! It would be fine but noones ever on : When they are noone talks to eachother and because of group xp debt people get mad if sumone dies and it breaks the whole group up!

    I'm not having fun anymore


    huh?! i have soloed the vast majority of the quests I have. the one's i havent are
    a) heritage quests (and i even soloed a couple of those)
    b) raid quests

    also, you must be grouping with the wrong people lol. ive been in numerous entire GROUP AND RAID WIPES where people didnt care about the debt and the group stayed together. in fact, i've only met 5 or 6 people who got mad because of someone dying in their group and they got debt, and they are all on my ignore list as that wasnt their only problem.

    debt is small and takes almost no time to work off.

    Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
    Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
    XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT

  • JorevJorev Member Posts: 1,500

    I agree with the OP.

    EQ2 is the suck. SOE does not know how to make a good game. EQdead was good only prior to SOE gaining control of it.

    The only good idea SOE has had is station exchange, perhaps they can give up making games and just broker exchanges for all the other game companies.

     

     

    image
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    Brad McQuaid
    Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
    Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
    www.vanguardsoh

  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384


    Originally posted by Arleonenis
    Ok some few words from me (was lvl 25 or 26 paladin and lvl 30 weaponsmith when i quited)1. You arent forced to group to level (up to 40 i think) but at this higher end of game you cant solo gray mobs, one guildi was lvl 50 guardian and he was telling that he wasnt able to solo green mobs at that time as they was hitting for far more than he could handle, it was true with few blows = dead
    2. To get access to higher level zones at lower levels (essential for crafters) i was force to do boat quest... 3 person team was slaughtered there so yes raid party was required i never done armor quest, prefered crafted carbonite

    Not entirely true

    I have lvl 50/50 players in my guild. They solo green to orange with little difficulty. I just confirmed this about 10 minutes ago

    Also, you are not forced to do boat rides whatsoever. I did the boat ride to enchanted lands and I didnt for Zek. At lvl 31 you do not need the access quests nor the boat ride to get into these islands.

    Also, everything on the island is red to you anyways at lvl 1-29 so basically the boat rides are pretty much for those who like to have quests under their belt or are crafters who want access to the island if their adventurer class is still too low.


    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378
    /cheer En1gma I love it when someone is really clearheaded and remembers everything they've done and defends a game someone is unjustly bashing, have a beer on me bro image

    image
  • Veiled_lightVeiled_light Member UncommonPosts: 855
    No matter what you say, i don't belive you solo :P You can't solo the game! Played from August 2004 in beta and was only able to solo quests uptil i got to the commonlands
  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Perhaps it's a matter of player skill, class, and/or gear as well. I didn't bother playing after beta ended, and I'm aware that they've made soloing a bit easier since release, but back then there were things I could solo that others couldn't, and vice versa.

    As a side note, I saw Enigma in beta once, but I was unable to procure his autograph. He still knows what he's talking about, though. So if he says you can solo, you can rest assured you can solo.

  • TildenTilden Member Posts: 94

    I really hate idiots that misquote what I say, make scoffing comments about their assessments of what I "supposedly" said, and then make blanket statements based on their stupidity about me obviously not having played the game. image

    It don't work with me, and just makes YOU look stupid.

    So everyone is able to take on multiple group mobs in the dungeons solo, eh? Interesting. My assassin could not. But before I stick by that assessment, I will assume that not even those quests (such as the reqs) are being referred to, but only the fed-ex quests. Fair enough.

    So the combat quests are being avoided. Sure, anyone can solo the game then doing the fed-ex quests - but those run out at level 15 or so.

    Seems to me that there's more of the braggadocio of pwning EQ2 than reality. I wonder how many players "soloed" Nek, or Neriak. None, unless the mobs were gray. Sure, I could zone into Nek or Neriak(FG) and pick off maybe a couple mobs at the entrance, but the plethora of 3^ stops you dead. That's called a solo game? I'd bet even that these super-soloers couldn't touch Wailing Caves when it was exp, except for a mob or two at the entrance.

    That's called experiencing the game?

    My original point stands. This game is all about grouping and raiding. Look at the latest Sony newsletter for EQ2 - what was it? 16 new dungeons, 12 were raid dungeons. Yeah, that's sure some good solo content there. image

    EQ2 HAS solo content, but nothing like the original hype promised. Deliberate misleading promotion? Perhaps. As to my measurement of EQ1 to 2, LDoNs can be done by 6 all the way to arguably some of the best equipment in the game - just a few AC shy of super god-kill armor. EQ2 has nothing like that. For being forced to group to achieve the good stuff (equipment), EQ1 is far better suited - just for having LDoNs. Just because EQ2 limits raids to 4 groups makes little difference - just consider their latest letter.

     

    Games:
    WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
    --------------------------------------

    “There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life.” - Doctor Smith

  • wes49015wes49015 Member Posts: 2
    iam glad i didnt buy eq2 ,,iam a eq1 player and i think the eq1 game is a lot better,more fun to play and i can solo all i want and if i want to group i have no trouble at all ,,cuz iam a lvl 33 iksar monk and i also play a LVL 31 hi_elf cleric  image
  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378
    Soloing sucks if you wanna solo try Legend of Zelda image Seriously though soloing is ok sometimes but if thats your main love, then MMO games are not meant for you. For people that say solo is the main market for MMO games I totally beg to differ. One of those M's stands for Multiplayer! Not freaking solo! Maybe you want a Massively Solo Online Role Playing Game. lol I kill me.

    image
  • NihilanthNihilanth Member Posts: 1,357


    Originally posted by anarchyart
    Soloing sucks if you wanna solo try Legend of Zelda image Seriously though soloing is ok sometimes but if thats your main love, then MMO games are not meant for you. For people that say solo is the main market for MMO games I totally beg to differ. One of those M's stands for Multiplayer! Not freaking solo! Maybe you want a Massively Solo Online Role Playing Game. lol I kill me.

    amen


    oh and btw Zelda does kick ass. can't wait for the new one, actually looks good...

    Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
    Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
    XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT

  • gargantroogargantroo Member Posts: 1,477

    I strongly disagree with that statement that MMORPGs are for grouping. They are not. They are for interaction of any kind without having to join multiple channels like in Diablo 2. Whether those games have soloing or grouping, those arent the factors that make it less or more of an MMORPG. Look at Ultima Online for instance, that game was completely solo, yet I have yet to find a game with better interaction amongst the players. Solo or group games are equally good MMORPGs. I like games that are judged by what you can do outside of leveling, such as sailing, building houses, dungeoneering, etc. Everquest 2 was a great game, and by judging it because it wasnt completely solo friendly is unfair.


    i play on australian servers because racism is acceptable there
  • AedosenAedosen Member Posts: 234

    There are a few things to consider.

    I'm an experienced EQ1 player from waaaay back. I was earnestly anticipating EQ2 when the developers hyped the idea that EQ2 was going to be less raid and more fun.

    HYPE: Sony promised a less-intensive game that relied on small groups or solo game-play.

    REALITY: EQ2 is all about forced-grouping and raids - the bigger, the better.

    ==============

    Hope this was really the reality as i love raiding and grping pretty much every outdoor expect in ef and lavastorm can be done solo these days.

    ==================

    HYPE: Sony promised a death penalty that would be fun.

    REALITY: There is no such thing as a "fun" penalty. Not only do you suffer a penalty when you die, but you are penalized when one of your group members die - the ones you are forced to group with.

    ===============

    Death penalty lol ? is there one ?

    =================

    HYPE: "Balanced" groups would be essential to success; ie, a melee, scout, nuker and healer (at least 1 from each branch).

    REALITY: In the mid levels on your forced groups to complete essential class and armor quests, you learn quickly that you need not just one healer, but 2, and they both better be top notch. Mobs hit you twice and you're dead. But the armor quests you'll do will help you survive three or four hits. To get the armor, though, you'll need 2 healers.

    ===================

    Reality best xp grps atm are duo´s or trio´s plus even in full grps 2 healers is more penalty than bonus and CERTAINLY NOT required. Been with one healer in all of the end game dungeons and done great.

    ====================

    HYPE: Tons of quests that you can do instead of raiding.

    REALITY: Questing takes you to about level 15 where you'll need to get a group to finish the quests you get after that. Pretty soon you need to join raids to finish quests.

    =====================

    Reality i can think of couple heritages and prismatics as quest that require raiding plus many do those heritages so late ingame they can actually solo those raid instances.

    ==================

    HYPE: Sony promised a FUN game.

    REALITY: Up to about level 20, it's fun. It really is. But you are noticing around level 18 that you are being herded more and more into grouping, more and more into full groups, and more and more into raids.

    ================

    Same things again addressed these before...

    =================

    So, if you are into grouping all the time to grind out experience (more like grind out experience to pay off the hideous amounts of death penalty debt you keep piling up), and if you're into mass raids for almost non-existant chances to get thin loots, then this game is for you.

    WARNING: If you are a casual player who likes to solo or just duo, then this game is most definitely not for you. EQ1 was better suited to solo play. Also, if you do like to group, EQ2 will be a very tough game to crack; almost everyone is in their upper levels and the low level areas are ghost towns. The place to begin this game was with everyone else when the game was released.

    EQ1 was a grind. EQ2 is twice the grind.::::04::::::04::

    =================

    Dont know what eq1 you have played but xp in eq2 is lot easier to get.

  • NoubourneNoubourne Member Posts: 349

    [quote]Originally posted by Tilden
    [b]I really hate idiots that misquote what I say, make scoffing comments about their assessments of what I "supposedly" said, and then make blanket statements based on their stupidity about me obviously not having played the game. image
    It don't work with me, and just makes YOU look stupid.
    So everyone is able to take on multiple group mobs in the dungeons solo, eh? Interesting. My assassin could not. But before I stick by that assessment, I will assume that not even those quests (such as the reqs) are being referred to, but only the fed-ex quests. Fair enough.
    So the combat quests are being avoided. Sure, anyone can solo the game then doing the fed-ex quests - but those run out at level 15 or so.
    Seems to me that there's more of the braggadocio of pwning EQ2 than reality. I wonder how many players "soloed" Nek, or Neriak. None, unless the mobs were gray. Sure, I could zone into Nek or Neriak(FG) and pick off maybe a couple mobs at the entrance, but the plethora of 3^ stops you dead. That's called a solo game? I'd bet even that these super-soloers couldn't touch Wailing Caves when it was exp, except for a mob or two at the entrance.
    That's called experiencing the game?
    [b][i]This is just plain flat out 100% wrong. The fact that you are unaware of how easy it is to solo in the game speaks only to your inexperience with it. You're the one misquoting. No one is pretending you can take ^^ group mobs anywhere above a green con. No one can take a ^^^ mob, even if it has just turned gray unless it's WAY WAY WAY below you in level. The fact is, you don't NEED to kill group mobs as a soloer to advance in the game or finish even half the quests. Most of the killing quests can be done solo. I would say about 20% of them tops REQUIRE a group. Even then as stated before, you don't need the perfect group.[/b][/i]


    My original point stands.
    [b][i]As many people have pointed out, your original point is way off.[/b][/i]

    This game is all about grouping and raiding. Look at the latest Sony newsletter for EQ2 - what was it? 16 new dungeons, 12 were raid dungeons. Yeah, that's sure some good solo content there. image
    EQ2 HAS solo content, but nothing like the original hype promised. Deliberate misleading promotion? Perhaps. As to my measurement of EQ1 to 2, LDoNs can be done by 6 all the way to arguably some of the best equipment in the game - just a few AC shy of super god-kill armor. EQ2 has nothing like that. For being forced to group to achieve the good stuff (equipment), EQ1 is far better suited - just for having LDoNs. Just because EQ2 limits raids to 4 groups makes little difference - just consider their latest letter.
    [/b][/quote]

    [b][i]You consider the letters. I'm playing the game. Since you obviously quit long before they made the zone revamps that made soloing viable in at least 50% of most of the zones, you should give up your militant anti-solo group/raid stance which no longer applies to the game. Either do another month and get a character over level 20 (which takes all of two weeks), or quit criticizing something you clearly don't know very much about.[/b][/i]

    And as to anyone's measurement in EQ2, you can solo and buy player crafted gear for most slots that is as good as or better than the highest end raid gear. Guild raids are for status more than gear, because guild progression means something in this game. I've been on two raids now through level 38. I'm arguably in the home stretch of levelling (for now), and I have yet to participate in more than a handful of full on 6 person groups, and only two raids (which max out on 4 groups tops FYI).

    Also, I played in LDON, and it's not nearly as easy as you make it seem. A crappy LDON group means you will hardly rack up any AA xp, and you'll be lucky to finish the thing in time, if the group is capable of finishing it at all.

    No one's criticizing your skill as a player. We are criticizing your knowledge of the game. You know about up to Nek, and before several of the latest patches went in. If you have played recently, then perhaps your skill should come into question, since most rogues I know can handle yellow mobs suited to individuals just like everyone else can, at any level.

    Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain

  • TildenTilden Member Posts: 94

    _____________________________________________________________

    "Also, I played in LDON, and it's not nearly as easy as you make it seem."

    _____________________________________________________________

    Really? Over 170 successes and only 3 failures. That seems pretty easy to me. Repetitive, but easy.

    You (and a couple others) keep assuming I'm criticizing EQ2. I offered in the OP a comparison between the promotional hype and the reality. I bought the game based on the hype that EQ2 was going to be a radically different departure from EQ1 Raid focus. I was disappointed, however appealing I found elements of EQ2. Criticism is not hatred. I happen to like EQ2 and have posted elsewhere that the game needs to be given a year or two.

    I'm not a soloer - I group duos with my wife. I'd bore myself silly trying to solo, but a duo is only marginally more efficient when faced with the quests and mobs that EQ2 offered. Better were the full groups - and yes, we found we needed 2 healers with the damage a mob dealt. When a player takes two hits and has none or 1 hit point left, even with decent armor, then 2 healers are required to insure safety. Mandatory? No. Practicality? Yes.

    I think EQ2 floundered, for reasons I won't bother trying to pinpoint, and has attempted to take a "me-too" approach to EQ1's raid style focus. EQ1 may always have the lead in raw raid participant numbers, but I'll wager you that the 4-group limit you see in EQ2 will someday soon be eased. Perhaps by the third expansion. The promise of that departure turned into a driving focus to imitate EQ1. Whether anyone likes it or not, EQ1 is successful, and will likely continue being successful for a few more years to come. EQ2 is attempting to find footing and copying EQ1.

    Those are considerations any buyer would be wise to weigh.

    Games:
    WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
    --------------------------------------

    “There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life.” - Doctor Smith

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