Developer Speaks out against PvP Guild

medmarijuana · July 2010

"The races of the world had been wary of each other since the Battle of Arcas, and the added stress of the meteor strike proved too much for political leaders to handle. Communications broke down as the world divided in the face of disaster. So began the Baehomic War."

This is a quote from the story of the game... Funny isn't it, a game about a war, and people are crying because players want to part take in that war against other players?

I like to rp, but the kind of RP i like to do is, I like to log into a game, I like to immerse myself into the story, the lore, then i play out my role... If my role is a soldier or some kind of combatant for some faction, than that is what I do, and I prefer to fight against other players.

Some people consider their role and they choose to play it, and some times that invloves PVP. Wether the cry babies like it or not.

kaydinv · July 2010

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by bloodjuice

player vs player is when 2 people are fighting each other, Ganking is when 1 person is attacking someone who is not ready to attack back.

And whats so wrong with an mmoRPG wanting the ROLEPLAYING to be above the pvp?   Might as well call other mmorpgs that are soley pvp, mmopvp.

Ganking has no roleplay value in it, and if a game wants the game to be more roleplay then pvp, let them do their thing.   I dont see what the OP was doing here other than trollin.

Actually "Ganking" refers to use overwhelming numbers...think "Gang." It has nothing to do with a victim who is "not ready to attack back." It always has meant that and always will mean that regardless of how hard people like you and newb Zymurgeist try to spread ignorance.

Don't worry though, tons of people use the term incorrectly with their own definition.

Killing someone in an MMO is called "Player Killing," often abbreviated as "PK."

PKing someone for no reason and who has no chance of defending themselves is generally considered one (of many) way to "grief" another player.

Using a large group to PK mercilessly against even a single person that would stand no chance is called "Ganking."

These definitions already exist. Stop trying to change them.

I adheared to those definitions. Unless you believe you can gank someone without being a player killer in the process.  Nice ad hominem though

Hahaha, whoops, I misread your post. I thought you were saying ganking and pking were one in the same (a common misconception). You're right.

It wasn't an ad hominem, by the way, I just felt like calling you a newb.

Devastatorx · July 2010

I have enjoyed reading this thread in its entirety while waiting for my download, and I'd like to thank all participants.

Ontopic:

I can appreciate both sides perspectives. In my ealier years of MMOs I was heavy into world pvp, and even ganking on occasion. At first its very exciting always looking over your shoulder, parking your main where youre lvling an alt, or possibly starting a war in a certain zone. It got old though. These days I only play on PvE realms. I have much less play time than I used to. So when Im trying to farm or get something done I honestly cant be bothered with world pvp.

Gonna have to gonna check out this game now.

Gardavil2 · July 2010

I do not play this MMO yet, I noticed. Contrary to the opinion of the OP I give a shit.

I am the biggest CareBear in gaming and I admit it, yet I support PvP in MMOs. There *IS* a purpose and a need in MMO gaming for PvP I believe and I respect the right of Players to seek out PvP and enjoy it as much or as little as they choose to do so. I have and do PvP from time to time as I get the urge to do so and then I enjoy it. The rest of the time I don't. In my case it's that simple. PvP is an important tool of a Player community to not only seek enjoyment but to also police it's own Player population. I encourage the Devs to give the Players the tools they need to handle this situation themselves. If the Devs of this MMO have given the tools the Players need then the Players just need to use them.

Now I do believe that if certain PvP "tactics" are done in the context of the role play as this MMO seeks to encourage, then these questionable "tactics" may be acceptable ingame between characters. There are times in PvP for ambushes and sneak attacks, a.k.a. Ganking, and there are times for other tactics. That is warfare in the real world, and as all MMOs are populated by real live Players, so to is it that way in MMOs.

But to start an unceasing flame war and passive-aggressive harassment campaign on this MMOs forums is not acceptable. A MMO forum exists as a communication tool for the benefit of the Devs and the Players to communicate amongst themselves to help a MMO run more smoothly, not as a tool of harassment. Commited "Greifing PvPers know all too well they bite the hand that feeds them if they abuse the Devs and the Entire Playerbase too much. Careful OP, you may have extended your hunting grounds far too wide so to speak.

We Humans by our very nature are Predators, and even though many of us learn not to submit to our predatory instincts, some people still let those instincts control them. People such as this derive pleasure and enjoyment from virtually harming and harassing other People on the internet and in MMOs. Since what they do makes them feel pleasure, no amount of talking or reasoning with them will do any good at all. Unless a Dev team is prepared to forbid PvP in a MMO then they need to carefully craft their MMO to control this segment of the MMO's population that cannot control themselves. This is common sense. This is real life and real virtual life in any MMO.

Good Luck to the entire Player community and the Developers of this MMO and I hope that all sides can reach an acceptable "middle ground" to gain enjoyment from this MMO, a "middle ground" that does not destroy what makes this MMO special to begin with.

Wraithone · July 2010

Originally posted by medmarijuana
The dev is stupid. Some people call true role playing when you get into character. You immerse yourself in the world around you and pretend like you are there. If it is a game that has some kind of war or fighting in the story, than there is a reason to Role play that war out, and sometimes that involves pvp.

RP does not always mean that a person just likes to pve .

The Dev's make the rules... If you do not like the rules, you are welcome to find another game. Games that allow (let alone encourage) ganking and griefing, seriously limit their appeal in the western markets. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how this game works out.

Grimzay · July 2010

Meh, fail PKers.

I'm proud to say I'm the hardest PKer you'll ever meet although..

When people around me, may they be friends or not, get E-rections over constantly beating someone in 5+ v 1 battle, it doesn't excite me. This also amounts to anything that equals the side that is mine having more numbers and the opposite having less.

During my days I would watch my friends or my faction(if on a war server) pummel the opposition in a 5+ versus X (always less) battle and get watch them get excited, while I sat there....entertained by the whining but still untrilled.

If I was there I never really touched the player/players that were out numbered unless i hated them/disliked them or their guild.

I wouldn't shout out "stop raping him" but I wouldn't really get as inclined as they do to rape him, I would just sit there and watch, as much as I like seeing people whine.

What excites me? I like being the one they are ganking. Yet still being able to take down 1, 2 or 3 before I die.

Now, I have gotten into situations on war servers where me and a random person had a couple (or many) 1 on 1s before my faction decided to show up with about 10 people to abuse him. While this was going on, I did not attack the player due to "meh, those fights were pretty fun respect" + the fact it still didn't excite me.

But, if they could not show the same courtesy for me, the next time they saw me on a war server, the "we had fun 1v1s, lol" respect is abolished and that person can expect to feel my wrath even in such things as 20 on 1s.

Also, I do not join guilds. I've joined a friends guilds for short bursts of time to help out with certain things and since I value friends I choose not to stay in their guilds as it would screw them over.

That said, I never join PK/PVP even for short bursts of time.

Why on earth would I want to join a guild made for PKing? Even if they are top or not.

No. I refuse.

I want to anger them, how do I do it? I kill any of their members on site regardless of their level. I don't care if the guild is big or small, I want their guild chat to filled with

"-Insert my favorite name here- just killed me on server 23 -enter town/city here-"

And on World Chat where some would scream

"-insert my favorite name here- is on server 26 in -enter town/city here-"

In many games I have reached the "notorious" stage in which almost every guild on my server wants me dead anytime they see me. I loved it, the sheer fact they would scatter at the site of me if they did not have enough numbers.

Regardless of my nature I have managed to make secure friends in MMORPGS which would also fill up the number gap on my side.

As a PKer I never killed people a certain amount of levels below me unless they asked for it - and another reason stated above- and I never asked or hoped for the same in return. Nope. No way.

What I wanted? I wanted to be level 50 when some random level 140 guy decides to kill me about 5 times in a row and feel good about it.

What do I do about it? I dot his name down in my head and say to myself "I will have the power to utterly shame him by the time I hit level 95"

I have ALWAYS had my vengance unless the person ended up quitting.

The people in this guild are probably among the carebears in games who I have extorted, made switch guilds, quit the game, change names or make a new character.

There are 3 things I don't do

I don't PK anybody a certain level amount below me unless they ask for it or are in a PK guild.

I don't PK anybody who seems to be getting down and dirty with their quests/level unless ofcourse I already don't like them, they are in a PK guild and so such.

I don't participate in 10 vs 3 battles and scream out "lol, they're getting owned."

Xaylin · August 2010

Originally posted by Ashlura
Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types.

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

Good luck

Sorry but history tends to show that the PK crowd is a small enough crowd to disregard. The vast majority of successful MMOs do not have standard rulsets that allow Open PKing. They put all of you on a server together to keep you away from the regular, more important customers -- PvE/instanced PVP players are easier customers to maintain. I hate to break it to you, but MMOs don't need you -- they never have and never will.

Wraithone · August 2010

Originally posted by Xaylin

Originally posted by Ashlura

Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types.

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

Good luck

Sorry but history tends to show that the PK crowd is a small enough crowd to disregard. The vast majority of successful MMOs do not have standard rulsets that allow Open PKing. They put all of you on a server together to keep you away from the regular, more important customers -- PvE/instanced PVP players are easier customers to maintain. I hate to break it to you, but MMOs don't need you -- they never have and never will.

Good points. The ganking/griefing crowd makes up a very small percentage of the over all player base. Those who want FFA full loot gankfests have niche games like Darkfall and Mortal Online(just to name two). Both those games will never be more than niche. Even a triple A title like Aion, with its bait and switch PvP has had serious problems with retention in the western markets. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how this game turns out.

SpecialK85 · August 2010

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Originally posted by Ashlura

Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types.

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

Good luck

Since you seem to be such a "hardcore" pvper why don't you join the Marines and see some real PvP?

Muridan · August 2010

I don't have a problem with anything that happens to a player once that player knowingly enters into a pvp situation.

That being said, the only real PK is a solo PK. anything else, intentional or not, is ganking.

Killing someone with any kind of clear advbantage over them, wether it be numbers, gear or general desire to be in the fight to begin with is lame.

Adamantine · September 2010

Originally posted by Elitekill4

How ignorant can you get? Not much more than this guy, I'd hope.

Einstein claimed there is no limit to stupidity.

I tend to agree.

Bonemail · September 2010

Originally posted by epicor

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by Elitekill4

How ignorant can you get? Not much more than this guy, I'd hope.Griefing ruins other peoples' experiences. What do you get out of it? Why don't you do REAL PvP instead of ganking/griefing people for lulz?And why should the devs have to appeal to everyone?

define real pvp? griefing is still player vs player, though honestly we aren't really spawn campers or corpse campers

and to be h onest, I'm sure the AI from the mobs in Aerrevan will be lack luster, as every other MMO... watching your back, the element of surprise and the competition with real people is what online gaming should always be about.. imo

if you wanna experience a good rpg, I hear dragon age is great, I'm sure you could even start up a vent server and talk to people while playing the same game

hahahahaha. vinter +1

@the naysayers: Griefing as an end is futile, ignorant and demoralizing. Griefing as a means to instigate clan warfare, server unity and player interaction is not. Learn to tell the difference and you may find whole new avenues of gaming become available.

I just want to say I applied for Nox a long while back and left before being accepted because of shit liek this and attitudes like this. There are some great people in Nox and it's why I tried to leave on a positive note and to give a few pieces of "this is why I left" to the leaders. Also I just want to say Keep your +1's to your forum. They were stupid there and they are stupid here.

P.S. The newbies won't tell you it but they count all the +1's and -1's you give them and boy does it cause them to feel like outsiders. Not a good system for breeding friendships with people who are not on the in crowd. Just a heads up. So like last time good luck but knock off this stupid crap please.

BizkitNL · September 2010

Originally posted by Ashlura
Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types.

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

Good luck

Man, you sound worse than an Emo.

Wraithone · September 2010

Originally posted by Adamantine

Originally posted by Elitekill4

How ignorant can you get? Not much more than this guy, I'd hope.

Einstein claimed there is no limit to stupidity.

I tend to agree.

Good point. Gankers and griefers almost always "justify" their behavior by claiming it adds "challenge" to a game. When the reality is, it just makes it so that the Dev's have to intervene to protect their business model. Modern western players have very little toleration for such antics. They also have many, many other games that do NOT tolerate ganking and/or griefing that they can spend their time and money on.

Ashlura · February 2011

In my earlier posts, I said I would come back when this game has failed. I only took a few of the posts that review this game.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/530/view/forums/thread/301189/Beware-of-Aerrevan.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/530/view/forums/thread/301396/proceed-with-caution.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/530/view/forums/thread/303300/If-they-fix-it-will-you-play.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/530/view/forums/thread/291340/Good-god-keep-away-from-this-game.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/530/view/forums/thread/295983/My-nonreview-review-of-this-game.html

Game = Failed

You cant promote a game of freedom and PvP and then not offer it. If you were to take everything that sucked in Mortal Online and everything that sucks in Xyson and meld them together, it would still be better than this game.

Jergis · February 2011

-Right now, the game is in a pre-release state. They had no business trying to release so early.

They are, also, devs that are 19 years of age. This is their first rodeo. They are still energetic, still developing the game and fixing issues regularly.

It goes slow, small inexperienced team and all that. But their passion is still there to develop this game. For a indie developer, the word 'fail' is different than the masses. If the indie project gets to the state the developer truley feels is ready for mass consumption, then it's a success even if no one plays it.

A close friend of mine is an indie software dev, in fact his online strategy game has been online for the last 12+ years. It has few players now, and he recently sold the asset to a player to continue the game. BUt does he consider a handful of players a failure? No. ANd neither shoudl the team at Aerrevan.

Hate all you want, it just comes across as petty, especially posting in the thread that a PvP guild whines about getting spanked by a couple of 19 year old game devs for being naughty. I for one am still supporting the game. It has a long way to go, but i think i'll ride along with them. To each their own.

Jergis

Wraithone · February 2011

Originally posted by Jergis
-Right now, the game is in a pre-release state. They had no business trying to release so early.

They are, also, devs that are 19 years of age. This is their first rodeo. They are still energetic, still developing the game and fixing issues regularly.

It goes slow, small inexperienced team and all that. But their passion is still there to develop this game. For a indie developer, the word 'fail' is different than the masses. If the indie project gets to the state the developer truley feels is ready for mass consumption, then it's a success even if no one plays it.

A close friend of mine is an indie software dev, in fact his online strategy game has been online for the last 12+ years. It has few players now, and he recently sold the asset to a player to continue the game. BUt does he consider a handful of players a failure? No. ANd neither shoudl the team at Aerrevan.

Hate all you want, it just comes across as petty, especially posting in the thread that a PvP guild whines about getting spanked by a couple of 19 year old game devs for being naughty. I for one am still supporting the game. It has a long way to go, but i think i'll ride along with them. To each their own.

Jergis

Well stated. I also wish them the very best of luck. Everyone has to start some place, and the vast majority of haters have no clue what is involved in this type of operation. I hope they learn a great deal from their current game, and can apply it to what ever else they decide to work on.

WSIMike · March 2011

Originally posted by Ashlura
I

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

... meanwhile how it usually pans out is like this...

Someone ganks/griefs other far weaker players - usually when they're already engaged in another fight. They say they're doing it to get "group PvP going". Yet... As soon as others show up to help those being harassed, the griefers - who were supposedly trying to instigate some "real PvP" - instantly turn heel and run away like the cowards they are. The last thing a typical griefer/ganker ever wants is anything resembling an even fight, much less one that they could lose.

In my experience, the tougher these types talk (especially on forums, where they're at their "most powerful"), the quicker they run, and the more they whine when they find themselves on the losing end of the encounter.

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

And... Case #1 playing only to cause others grief is precisely what typically leads to Case #2... which is why no one really likes having #1 around in the first place, and why so few MMOs have open PvP. Because the people in case #1 are always gonna show up and try to screw it up for everyone else.

Your post has illustrated this beautifully. Thanks for the contribution.

rathalas22 · March 2011

Originally posted by SimperFi
I see this has a good deal of posts already so I don't know if anyone will even read mine, but I'm putting it up here anyway.

To the OP, I'm not a carebear buddy not in the least. I see violence as a part of human nature and a simple and effective way to solving problems.

Now that said, I read your reply about these people arguing for "carebear land". Look, we call these games MMORPGS...RPGS...ROLE PLAYING GAME. So you need to calm down and have mommy take you off the pills. If you want to talk hardcore, send me your address and if you live close enough maybe I'll have a talk with your parents about what you're doing on the internet (at the very least).

I've seen thousands of little whimps like you acting tough of the internet and I'm sick of it. You wanna talk about hardcore? Back up and reconsider who you are, sweetheart.

This developer was protecting his community from little punks. God bless him. We're tired of putting up with ignorant shite-heads (that's not a spelling error) who just want to ruin games. and YES YOU ARE A GRIEFER get over yourself.

THank you sit down and shut up. Assuming you had the attention span to read this whole message.

^This^

DLangley · March 2011

Please do not necro post in old threads. Locked.

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Developer Speaks out against PvP Guild

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Developer Speaks out against PvP Guild

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