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DA2 The Decline of the Classic RPG
Scorchien
Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
Well seems others are beginning to recognize , what a portion of the community already knew with DA1 and ME2,and now DA2, these so called Erhmmm RPGs are hurting the Genre by dumbing it down and removing all the good parts of an RPG piece by piece, one part of the article i disagre with is even calling these games Action/RPGs , they arent even worthy of that and need to be classified as Action/Story games...
http://www.hookedgamers.com/editorials/2011/03/02/dragon_age_ii_the_decline_of_the_classic_rpg.html
Comments
http://www.hookedgamers.com/editorials/2011/03/02/dragon_age_ii_the_decline_of_the_classic_rpg.html
A link for those that don't want to copy/paste.
I want the old days of a good Turn based RPG.
Final Fantasy Tactics but no now they all are made for PSP and DS.
Action RPG is actually a pretty good description, especially when put next to the definition of cRPG (classic RPG).
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I might have to disagree with this. It doesn't seem to be so much an Action RPG as it does a plain Hack n' Slash with classes and a story.
Ah yes, nothing hurts a "genre" more then "dumbing it down" since it causes less and less people to play it.
Right?
And since "people" say that the classic rpg was the best, anyone who says otherwise "must really enjoy the dumbed down current rpgs lol".
I played the demo for DA2 and have some thoughts on it, but I'm currently too tired. However, the general gist is that the game has gone from a made for pc game to a made for console game. In the process much is lost. I'm not saying it's bad, but it doesn't live up to it's predecessor. Bioware went back to their pc roots in DA:O, but in DA2 they've left those roots behind. In doing so they've gone from the king of pc RPGs to really nothing particularly special. The gameplay has gone from their traditional style of gameplay to something much more similar to what you might expect in Diablo, or worse, Gauntlet.
Hopefully there will be enough of an outcry that they'll actually hear the community and the type of RPGs their fans have always loved. DA:O won all kinds of accolades, I don't think DA2 will do the same.
put that in the movies: Compare interview with the vampire to "twilight". One was dumbed down. One is way more popular than the other. Does it make the more popular BETTER?
Not for DA2 it is being done in frame narative and is set up to show the player that Hawke is not their character but the dwarf narrorators character. So it's more like interactive story to me, call me old fashioned but I play rpgs to play the role, to choose what the character does and through that make him mine. Now it does give you choice and therefore more control than the classic rpg, but in the same time, a classic rpg lets me revisit past locals where DA2 is set up arround kirkwall and you keep coming back there. Kinda like someone took DDO and made it to a single player rpg where you could only be a human.
Worst of all EA/bioware has been being informed of an issue with the demo servers locking up PCs, 360's, and PS3's for nearly a month now and has done nothing to fix this problem. Which is disturbing because the game locks up during connection to the servers, which are the same servers for the retail game. The lock up occures while access DA:O data and can corrupt or even destroy that data. So I am looking forward to march 8th with a bit of dread, for multiple reasons.
The game servers have bugs, the story style has been completely changed along with the leveling system, and the play style is closer to dynasty warriors than a rpg. I have loved bioware for years, but these sudden drastic changes make me wonder who is calling the shots in their develpoment department, and if the old crew from bioware haven't just become figure heads to sell more games.
There is some hope in me that this is a sort of testing the waters game, the fact their interveiws have pounded on the rift between player and hawke make me think that it is there because if this game fails he will die and we get a new DA:O style game in DA3. Only time will tell, but the face remains that post EA take over, bioware games have slowly declined.
Well, wikipedia:
Action role-playing games (abbreviated action RPG, action/RPG, or ARPG) form a loosely-defined sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action that requires direct input from the player, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash or shooter games.[1]
Yeah, I don't like this trend either. I mean, I get that there's more money to be made in console gaming than PC gaming - less piracy and such - and that that's why a number of game companies are moving towards console games, but the focus towards console gaming means a simplification and loss of depth/complexity.
Which in my eyes isn't needed. With the difference of gaming audience and tastes though games can often get away with it with console games.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why not enjoy the game as a game, rather than worrying about the label of it. For a different style of RPG there are games out there such as Oblivion (with their next installment coming upt) and The Witcher 2.
Disagree here. BW's focus may have changed, making their games more console friendly maybe. Still, I find ME1 and especially ME2 beats most of their other games, pre-EA ones included.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm really going to miss watching my character attack and not feeling remotely immersed in the gameplay. It will be awful. Now i'll have to stay awake while playing.
From now on we call a cRPG when it meet the requirements and when its aRPG we call it like this.
And i fully agree DA2 is not even close to DAO anymore let alone cRPG, i WON'T BUY it thats what they manage so for me.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Why do you think i and maybe many others complain about DA2 it i dont like aRPG like DA2 with insane rediculous action, plus fact its purely made for console that means simplified alot.
Becouse even bioware claimed and almost all reviewers that DAO was spiritual follow up to BG2 but it was not and now even manage to chance so much from DAO, they alinate those who not only like aRPG's but still played DAO and at least liked it, but DA2 is just way over top chanced to much for me and wont buy it.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
It's not even that dramatic of a change. Ridiculous "Purists", sigh. You have to click to do a basic attack (oh no!), you have to be a character that is going to have a good story tailored around them (which allows for a far more immersive experience, not to mention you can change your appearance still) and oh god not streamlined talent trees (I want to have to wade through redundancy). The future sucks, woe is me. Ok I think i've communicated my point, back to my bridge.
The Bioware we all embraced no longer exists , the one we have now is just cheap EA bride ,and as soon as EA is done with them they will dismantle whats left like the many other Devs they have purchsed over the years , None of them have survived , why would anyone think Bioware will be differnet they are the next vicitm of EA , probably will completly be dismantled in 2-4 years max..
BW took a chance at the old-school mechanic with DA:O and you know what? It bombed on the PC compared to the console, the sales on the console was light years ahead compared to the PC. Even though the PC was the superior version.
EA/BW is a business and the market spoke quite clearly that console is where you get more sales; so in DA2 they went down that route.
I can't fault them as it is just good business sense.
I enjoyed parts of the demo (the setting of the mountain was attrocious but the city looked cool) and the combat mechanic looks way more interesting than DA:O.
To the guy above, ME2 says hi! ME1 was released a month after BW was bought.
You can argue all you want that ME1 is 'better' but the public (in terms of sales) and critics all disagree with you.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
DA is about as immersive as a Saturday morning cartoon , but simple things for ......well you get it........
I love the ME games but they should have never sold off NWN and they also should have done a Baludur's Gate 3 instead of Dragon Age. Now it seems they have taken Dragon Age to an all new cartoonist level with their art direction. Sad really.
cite your source please.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
This man is wise.......or woman....i dunno :P
A lot of people here wants all these features and genres implemented into future games. Some wants Dragon Age to be a classic rpg like Baulder Gate, some wants to be open world sandbox like Elder Scrolls.
The big Question here is Just go play that game? or their sequel? or their prequel? Why are you guys so obsessively wanting DA2 to be NWN 5, Baulder Gate III or Elder Scrolls VI? The fact is that it isn't, this is Dragon Age, can't you at least give them the chance to release the game? From what I've seen ingame (demo) the combat isn't changed drastically, just missing the isometric view, changed in animation style, from the more static attack animation to more emphasis on movement and placement, skills are design to be active, not activating on the spot and attack.
A lot of people said Dragon Age: Origins is boring and fell to sleep, but he/she wants more classic rpg where auto attack is even more prominient. Isn't that even more boring? O Gee, I have to stay awake to play the game now, what a pain in the butt.
Classic RPG are called classic for a reason, they are Classics, no developers will be stupid enough to attempt to create game aiming to overtake a classic game, cos it will never meet the expectations of the players.
If people only expects the whole "Open world Sandbox games with lots of classic features and tactical gameplay, with tons to explore and play with" there will be several problems:
Price, tons to explore with no DLC is impossible, developers will need justifications to make such a vast game, therefore you paid more for more content.
Purpose, with so many aspects fusion into one game, one can asked what is the purpose of the game? Are we suppose to explore or drive through the story? This isn't discussed in the mmo forum so I'll presume when endgame means the game ended (lol)
Grim future, so what happens when you get what you asked for? Are players gonna ask for more of the same? Will the just simply be comply to move on to newer genres? I doubt it, majority of players are chronic complainers and they will not stop until all developers give up.
Is this the decline of Classic RPG, maybe it is, maybe it is time to move onto newer and possibly better things, not all innovations are good, but if we don't close the first good book we read, we will never get to the second good book we are about to get.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Is this some kind of wishful thinking, just because they make games that aren't in the genre you like, classic RPG?
The fact that all their last games sold magnanimous and that they have 3 big titles this year proves enough that they won't be gone within the next 4 years. Besides, at least they have the guts to try different things, in contrast to other big game companies who after their big first success keep making sequels within the same franchise: Halo, Call of Duty/Modern Warfare, Starcraft, Diablo, to name a few.
Bioware could have made easily a BG3 or NWN3 or KOTOR 3, and they would've sold gold.
Instead they made KOTOR after BG.
With NWN they went into making one of the best world creator tools around, which resulted into fantastic player made MORPG worlds.
Then they went onto a completely new track with Jade Empire, away from high fantasy and scifi into an original Asian themed fantasy setting.
After that, they again didn't make a sequel, but launched 2 new franchises, with intriguing worlds, and in the case of ME/ME2 with different game mechanics, more action RPG and shooter oriented instead of the BG style of play.
Now, with DA2 they're trying some other changes in the gameplay again.
Sure, not all their adventures into new territories are equally successful, as Jade Empire proved, but at least they have the guts and take risks, of trying new things, mechanics, IP franchises and settings with each new game they make, instead of making safe sequels of their former successes as other companies do.
I wish they'd make a BG3, or NWN3 with an even more advanced world creation toolset. But I can understand and respect that they're trying different paths all the time. Whether they'll be successful with it, we'll see.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dragon Age bombed on PC isn't because Console had the bigger market, is because PC is being PC. I'm sure a lot of people here is well known to the fact of pirated games, lots and lots of copies of Dragon Age: Origins was pirated, not bought therefore it is much harder to predict the sales of PC than Consoles if piracy isn't an alternative.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I absolutely loved Dragon Age Origins. I thought it was a throwback game to the days of Icewind Dale, Baldurs gate and the Bioware classics.
My only complaint with Dragon Age Origins was how easy it was once you figured out the Tactics, or just assigned everyone actions. It got to the point I was just playing two characters instead of a full party on Nightmare mode (the hardest setting). Baldurs Gate would kick your ass trying to pull that.
I played the demo of DA2 and it has great potential, sure it's more flashy and has cooler abilities, like that awesome rogue shadowstep backstab thing (who doesn't want that?), but it was again, extremely easy. There was only the normal difficulty level available, so maybe it won't be so bad, but I hope I at least have a good challenge on the harder settings without having to purposely gimp myself like I did in DA:O
That really is the only real difference I saw between the old school Bioware games and Dragon Age, besides, of course, the graphics and voice acting etc... give us a real Hardcore/Nightmare mode.