It really is a pointless argument, players are gone, and you are right in stating it is unlikely they'll be back within the next 4 months. Fixing the bugs and releasing new content followed by another PR push could resurge the population, but in all honesty, this was the time they had to pull me in and take my money. I was ready to play this game until SWTOR or Skryim, but with the way things have been, I wasn't playing nearly as much as before and it allowed me to try out Xsyon, and now I'll be playing that while my enjoyment lasts there.
All the problems aside, DCUO really did have some fun and excitement going for it... it was *almost* everything I wanted in an action MMO. I'm afraid we won't see combat like this in an MMO for a long time, and TERA is pretty much akin to the phantasy star series with the way their action combat plays. I'm very happy I bought DCUO just like I was with SWG, but just like in SWG I feel like the fun ended too soon when it didn't have to.
Some people may play games for some kind of emotional investment, I've played games for decades and don't feel it necessary to have an emotional investment to continue playing something as long as its fun.
Ah, but for many, it IS required. At least in a game you pay a sub for. Many people need to feel a connection with the world and their character that extends beyond combat. And many that might disagree with me are simply not realizing it. They get bored with a game that they were entertained by and quit, not knowing that much of the reason had to do with getting everything they think they want and nothing of what they thought they could do without. A steady diet of nothing but candy loses its sweetness very quickly.
Not everything has to be impactful, and crafting in any game doesn't necessarily make me feel like I'm impacting anything more or less than if I was a combat only character. Fallen earth is a good example of this, where I was very active in my clan, crafted weapons, and mounts for them, and was a big part of the social network, but in the end, when the game became stale and no longer fun for me I moved on, just like the others in my group.
When there aren't very many good, fun ways to invest yourself into a game, like I said, you'll invest less of yourself into it. Your example of Fallen Earth fits. Crafting is about as good as gameplay gets in FE. But in the end, you use those crafted items to do other things which aren't particularly fun. Combat being one.
Games are meant as entertainment, and you only bring out of it the enjoyment you can get from it. Downtime activities don't provide that in every game, in fact, they don't provide that in most games. Think of all the recent games that have done poorly with these kind of downtime activities. Think of all the very one-note games like Halo that have made many multi-million dollar purchases, have very strong followings, and yet, provide little more than a space age shooter. People pay to play halo monthly (via xbox live) and it provides much less in the way of content and longevity.
I would say, it's because they DID those downtime activities poorly.
I can't think of very many recent games that have had good downtime activities, or shown any evidence whatsoever that they've put any kind of thought into them. Eve and LotRO are some of the better games for downtime, and I could still criticize LotRO plenty on how they're missing the boat. Pretty much everything else recently released has just stacked generic systems on, like Cryptic's 2 games, and DDO. All 3 have completely missed the whole point of crafting, and downtime activities in general from the social angle. Their models do nothing for anyone outside of the "I got the stuff-I pushed the button-now gimme sweet lootz" set. AoC's crafting is also a mess; and on social aspects, shall we bring up the limited edition beer cape?
And yes, I'll agree that not every game has to have a million.2 different activities in it... plants vs. zombies, anyone? But I'm holding to my assertion that they won't pay $15 a month for it. And your Halo example, as you already know is suspect because they aren't necessarily paying to PLAY HALO. They are paying for Xbox Live.
Simple comparisons are relevant here as they are in roughly the same genre. This game has an offering of different activiites and achievements, and at one time these were even strong enough to have kept me for an undetermined amount of time until the next game launch that I was interested in. Unfortunately due to the way development was handled, it was cut extremely short.
Some design changes could have helped in that, most notably more translucency in the extra features the game offers that would have kept players coming back for those "other things" the game offered that players never caught on to. Mostly it is the bug fixes which SOE just seems to move too slowly or not react on at all similar to how SWG went for many multiple years changing and reiterating without ever fixing the underlying problems.
Here the problems were much more prevalent. There was room for players to get attached and grow, but when you have developers working against their players, and a company that makes it tough for those developers to support the game with restrictions and what have you on patch schedules... its a really daunting task for them, and a frustrating experience for us.
I felt none of that attachment. My character just felt like one of many shlubs. Even with the good voice acting and perfectly good gfx(and even Jim Lee!), I just never really felt like I was in the Watchtower, in Gotham, in the DC world in general. There were lots of reasons I can think of, and also very... ummm... nebulous reasons? That X factor just wasn't there.
It really is a pointless argument, players are gone, and you are right in stating it is unlikely they'll be back within the next 4 months. Fixing the bugs and releasing new content followed by another PR push could resurge the population, but in all honesty, this was the time they had to pull me in and take my money. I was ready to play this game until SWTOR or Skryim, but with the way things have been, I wasn't playing nearly as much as before and it allowed me to try out Xsyon, and now I'll be playing that while my enjoyment lasts there.
All the problems aside, DCUO really did have some fun and excitement going for it... it was *almost* everything I wanted in an action MMO. I'm afraid we won't see combat like this in an MMO for a long time, and TERA is pretty much akin to the phantasy star series with the way their action combat plays. I'm very happy I bought DCUO just like I was with SWG, but just like in SWG I feel like the fun ended too soon when it didn't have to.
They'll go F2P with M/T's. I'd almost bet money on it. I think it's been their plan for a long time. If not, I probably will give it another go when the box hits the bargain bin.
They'll go F2P with M/T's. I'd almost bet money on it. I think it's been their plan for a long time. If not, I probably will give it another go when the box hits the bargain bin.
I agree with this. SOE spent a lot of time not commenting on how they were going to model payments for DCU and the gameplay does look like it could fit a F2P model somewhat decent. As with most of the game it is stuck somewhere inbetween two aspects. In this case a price model.
It really is a pointless argument, players are gone, and you are right in stating it is unlikely they'll be back within the next 4 months. Fixing the bugs and releasing new content followed by another PR push could resurge the population, but in all honesty, this was the time they had to pull me in and take my money. I was ready to play this game until SWTOR or Skryim, but with the way things have been, I wasn't playing nearly as much as before and it allowed me to try out Xsyon, and now I'll be playing that while my enjoyment lasts there.
All the problems aside, DCUO really did have some fun and excitement going for it... it was *almost* everything I wanted in an action MMO. I'm afraid we won't see combat like this in an MMO for a long time, and TERA is pretty much akin to the phantasy star series with the way their action combat plays. I'm very happy I bought DCUO just like I was with SWG, but just like in SWG I feel like the fun ended too soon when it didn't have to.
You are correct that is is pointless for us to argue our views of why players are gone already. In the long run however, companies will look back at this game to see what went wrong. It is sort of the first mmo for console platforms, so much of what DCU does will be examined under a microscope when other companies consider making mmos for consoles.
I agree that the game has some pretty cool stuff in it, just not enough of it and it was released far to early. It should still be in beta right now.
Ah, but for many, it IS required. At least in a game you pay a sub for. Many people need to feel a connection with the world and their character that extends beyond combat. And many that might disagree with me are simply not realizing it. They get bored with a game that they were entertained by and quit, not knowing that much of the reason had to do with getting everything they think they want and nothing of what they thought they could do without. A steady diet of nothing but candy loses its sweetness very quickly.
When there aren't very many good, fun ways to invest yourself into a game, like I said, you'll invest less of yourself into it. Your example of Fallen Earth fits. Crafting is about as good as gameplay gets in FE. But in the end, you use those crafted items to do other things which aren't particularly fun. Combat being one.
I would say, it's because they DID those downtime activities poorly.
I can't think of very many recent games that have had good downtime activities, or shown any evidence whatsoever that they've put any kind of thought into them. Eve and LotRO are some of the better games for downtime, and I could still criticize LotRO plenty on how they're missing the boat. Pretty much everything else recently released has just stacked generic systems on, like Cryptic's 2 games, and DDO. All 3 have completely missed the whole point of crafting, and downtime activities in general from the social angle. Their models do nothing for anyone outside of the "I got the stuff-I pushed the button-now gimme sweet lootz" set. AoC's crafting is also a mess; and on social aspects, shall we bring up the limited edition beer cape?
And yes, I'll agree that not every game has to have a million.2 different activities in it... plants vs. zombies, anyone? But I'm holding to my assertion that they won't pay $15 a month for it. And your Halo example, as you already know is suspect because they aren't necessarily paying to PLAY HALO. They are paying for Xbox Live.
I felt none of that attachment. My character just felt like one of many shlubs. Even with the good voice acting and perfectly good gfx(and even Jim Lee!), I just never really felt like I was in the Watchtower, in Gotham, in the DC world in general. There were lots of reasons I can think of, and also very... ummm... nebulous reasons? That X factor just wasn't there.
Few points, Halo is one example I gave as people go to great lengths for the game. Its one of the few titles people buy systems for, and some people play it exclusively. While it is somewhat flawed to think they are paying monthly ONLY for halo, the truth could very well be that may players do currently play only halo whilst paying for Xbox live.
Even in SWG I didn't feel particularly attached to any one thing although I enjoyed the game immensely. A friend of mine and I reminisced about our time just the other day, and despite the enjoyment we had playing it, (most notably with the launch of JTL) we never spoke about the downtime activities like the cantinas. Buff lines notwithstanding. Perhaps we are just different players, you and I. Likewise I enjoyed the crafting in fallen earth, but found the combat to be quite enjoyable too.
Maybe I just don't take as much involvement in MMOs coming from a different line of gaming altogether. (I was a console player for a number of years, rarely playing PC games - with the obvious exception or two). In those games I was always pushed by an underlying drive and sense of skillful accomplishment to achieve goals, it relied much less on interdependancy and forced socialization.
For someone like myself a game that is enjoyable more or less mechanically but faulters in other places can still be considered a good game. While its very obvious for some others here that this genre in particular requires necessary "downtime" activites to enhance some sort of extended socialization or reliance on others. While these kind of community building tools may seem necessary, its rare to find one thats enjoyable to do. Its almost as if people put up with mind numbing, soul crushing systems sometimes just because it could enhance a community experience... much like putting up with ridiclous comments on your facebook wall from people you hardly know.
Everyone has their own opinion on what this game did wrong, thats apparent, and what I've seen and experienced in my very close observation and mostly daily play here is what drove my subscription decision, and my opinion, of what this game was and how this game was, to where I am now. As stated though, it doesn't matter how it happened to us - the players - in the end, it is what happened.
Few points, Halo is one example I gave as people go to great lengths for the game. Its one of the few titles people buy systems for, and some people play it exclusively. While it is somewhat flawed to think they are paying monthly ONLY for halo, the truth could very well be that may players do currently play only halo whilst paying for Xbox live.
A valid point. But I'd say that those people STILL don't make those decisions with the idea, "I'm buying the system, and I'm paying the XBL sub so I can play Halo." Those may be their motivating reasons, and sometimes, I'd even submit that they might be all they ever DO and all the other reasons just end up rationalizations(evident by craigs list). But I bet, that if the Halo folks said, "hey, forget this XBL stuff. You wanna play our game? $50 bucks for the box and $15 a month after." folks would fall out of love with Halo pretty quick.
Even in SWG I didn't feel particularly attached to any one thing although I enjoyed the game immensely. A friend of mine and I reminisced about our time just the other day, and despite the enjoyment we had playing it, (most notably with the launch of JTL) we never spoke about the downtime activities like the cantinas. Buff lines notwithstanding. Perhaps we are just different players, you and I. Likewise I enjoyed the crafting in fallen earth, but found the combat to be quite enjoyable too.
You and I probably aren't too far off with our opinions of SWG. Matter of fact, when playing SWG, I despised many of the time sinks that went along with it. And even now, when I talk about downtime activities, I talk about VOLUNTARY downtime activities. Poor game design philosophies start with FORCING a player to do ANYTHING. You have to design a game where they WANT to do downtime activities.
Maybe I just don't take as much involvement in MMOs coming from a different line of gaming altogether. (I was a console player for a number of years, rarely playing PC games - with the obvious exception or two). In those games I was always pushed by an underlying drive and sense of skillful accomplishment to achieve goals, it relied much less on interdependancy and forced socialization.
And FORCED is the key word, here. I'm in 100% agreement.
Since SWG, where I was fascinated by the whole crafting system, a game's downtime activities never have done much for me except for Eve and LotRO. Eve, in that you can join a corp, and spend a bunch of time mining and yapping with each other. Or just spend hours setting up ship configurations.
LotRO, in that they had the whole music system, and crafting, particularly consumables, is a viable source of income. And they try stuff like the Winter Theatre. Still not perfect stuff, but much could be done.
But the biggest thing for me about LotRO, is it was the first game to come along since SWG that made me want to SLOW DOWN. Levelling didn't matter to me so much. I WANTED to work on crafting and even sought explorer deeds. My big frustration with LotRO is that they put in limits to crafting via special ingredient missions. But that's another topic...
For me, it's all mostly about having choices. In SWG, I could spend my whole time for the night scouting for the best harvestor drops. Or run kill missions. Or missions in space in JtL. Or just go nuts shooting up Imperial controlled bases.
In LotRO I can run deeds, craft, run skirmishes, play music, help kinnies through crafting, raiding, skirmishes, do seasonal events, etc...
But with many newer games, and particularly DCUO, STO, or CO, I haven't really seen any comparable options to that. At all. Let alone them actually being fun or not.
For someone like myself a game that is enjoyable more or less mechanically but faulters in other places can still be considered a good game. While its very obvious for some others here that this genre in particular requires necessary "downtime" activites to enhance some sort of extended socialization or reliance on others. While these kind of community building tools may seem necessary, its rare to find one thats enjoyable to do. Its almost as if people put up with mind numbing, soul crushing systems sometimes just because it could enhance a community experience... much like putting up with ridiclous comments on your facebook wall from people you hardly know.
To me, a game like that would be DDO. I enjoy alot of things about it, but it's lacking in alot of things that normally keep me logging in often to do SOMETHING. Once every few months I log in and enjoy the crap out of it. But for games like LotRO I think completely differently; I want to log in to run a quick skirmish, or help new kinnies out, or I farm and cook my butt off Thursday to make a ton of gold for the weekend. I just saw very little opportunity for those things in DCUO.
Everyone has their own opinion on what this game did wrong, thats apparent, and what I've seen and experienced in my very close observation and mostly daily play here is what drove my subscription decision, and my opinion, of what this game was and how this game was, to where I am now. As stated though, it doesn't matter how it happened to us - the players - in the end, it is what happened.
And the saddest part is, despite how different many of those opinions were, they were mostly RIGHT. That doesn't discount what YOU like about it, as it is an enjoyable game. The problem lies, IMO, when you want to shift gears, but still contribute to the same game(world).
And there we go... one forum conversation not ending in a litany of "YER A FANBOI!!!" "YER A HAYTA!!!" nonsense. Such a wonderful thing.
Edited to correct a BIG spelling oopsy... yes I prefer SHIfTING gears to the alternative... owtch...
Woke up, every single server was low pop. It was 7 pm pst, but even then...When I first got DC Universe about 15 days ago, the servers were all medium 24/7, and occasionally reached high. And there was even a content patch recently, and its still dead. Only server currently at medium is Death and Glory (at 10 am)
You say...population means nothing...but then I will not have experiences like...(by the way, this was on Public Enemies, but I have since made a new character (hero) on Death and Glory, because that is only server that still has a vague amount of life)
I LOVE DC Universe...most fun I've had in an MMO for ages. But that is only because the world PvP is so much fun...it starts off as a villain or hero ganking lowbies, and it turns to all out war. When I first got DC, two days in...villains were attacking the lowbie hero area. Three level 30 villains. Two level 30 heroes, and a level 24 (might have been 25, forgot) hero come along and start trying to push them back. The villains recruited more villains, heroes brought in more heroes...it was all out war. Cars being thrown, objects being destroyed...we managed (I was a low level, but still was tons of fun, even if I died lots) push them back onto the roof tops. The battle went back and forth, with villains 75% or so of the time having the upperhand...but near the end of the two and a half hour (literally) battle, the heroes managed to drive them away.
That was epic fun and what sold me on DC. But if population keeps dying off so quick, I won't have experiences like that at all...I'll just see emptiness.
I feel really sad As DC is so much fun and one of my favorite MMOs to come out...but its all because of the PvP wars that used to happen.
I'm really upset over how bad DC is doing, and it's so much fun. I can interact with the environment (very little MMOs let you do this, as "most" are static worlds where you can't interact with anything)...reminds me greatly of Oblivion/fallout 3 and vegas in a way...PvP is tons of fun, but you don't have to worry about losing equipment or exp that would take hours or days to replace...its just pure fun.
Oh well...I can keep ranting, but it's getting a bit long. I'll keep subbed to DC as long as possible, maybe Death and Glory will be better. I almost feel like crying and it's just a game, never felt like that before...but servers are so empty and almost no more awesome PvP wars are happening.
I will keep it brief for you.
Most of the people still playing DCUO like the game and dont care to do the same dailies forever (even them will be tired at some point, they just dont acept it or know it yet)
An MMO need people with different tastes in game.: Explorers, social, achievers, farmers, merchant, pvp oriented, storyline oriented, ect. They all play toguether and make things happen for everyone.
when any of those people complain about the game no longer meeting these needs, the fanboys start telling them :
-if you dont like the game, RIFT is there
-sometimes they tell you plain and simple: GTFO
- go back to WOW
-If you ran the content in a week is not my fault
- the game is in the infancy give it some time.
- WOW had way less content than this one at Vanilla
- Few populations is normal after the free month
-sometimes they even tell you to do things that you dont need or things that are not fun at all, like complete feats, get more gear and so on.
and many other things that the fanboys say that you get surprised sometimes.
Dont be surprised if you are the only ones playing.
Dude the game lacks proper end content. Myself, I only tried WOW for a week and i did not like it. I dont know what end content is there.
I will use another game as a sample. Perfect world International (PWI) by no means better than DCUO but the end game is way way way way way better than DCUO as the end game is meaninfull and proper and you get the feeling of the end game very early.
I will break it down for you:
- the game has territorial wars (TW), in which the powerfull guilds are competing for territories.
-when the server opens, nobody owns territories, they are occupied by mobs. So, your guild must take the territory from the mobs. For tha,t your guild goes to an arena place to fight them. If you win, you own the territory.
-By keeping the territory your guild earns coins that are later used to defend the territory from other guilds.
-If your guild wants to participate in TW, they must participate in a bid process, the higher bidder gets the right to face the guild owning that territory. Keep in mind there are many territories and many guilds trying to dominate the entire map.
By above you should understand that if you want to go to TW, you must be well geared to be accepted in a TW guild. Also, since the guild wants to win (as they need every member to be powerfull), they will help you to get your powerfull gear and so on.
Guilds will also farm gear to get money for TW ( as they need money to bid).
No need to say all the spying and betrayal going on, batle plans, ect.
Saying that, this is just a sample of end game. Dont see it as PWI is a good game or anything like that.
the Raids were fun to do, but there was only 2 for ever, now they added 1 more. but even these you can only do once a week. and the rest of the time you just grind hard modes and duos, that gets old after day 2, same maps over and over and over and over.......
too bad, the current players dont see it that way, at least the game could improve. Righ now, they see everything as a paradise or game utopia. Anything that is not right, they see it as normal in a new MMO.
As a current player myself this isn't entirely fair and although, as with every mmo, there are blinkered fanbois who shout out over the equally blinkered haters those two groups are a tiny subset of the vast majority of us who know the volume of content is lacking atm. Its a new game, as with every other recent release it went retail too early, unlike every other recent release the core game is actually pretty fresh and fun so it warrants the extra effort needed to make it progress so there is plenty of pressure and suggestions being fired at the devs to expand content as rapidly as possible.
The one point I would suggest is hurting/compromising progress is SoE's own forum policing which is far too draconian/aggressive you don't get long to flesh out ideas.
Overall DCUO is a great starting point, but it has to evolve and develop quickly and it has to do this in the face of the lag SoE bring to the table.....but in all honesty I think given half a chance it is sufficiently good at the core, where it really matters, to win through.
Check what a fanboy is
This is from poster that is in love with the game. I took it from the PC DCUO forums and lets see what you think
in DCUO there is a tool to see all post from any poster. This guy in particular has 1,607, most of then supporting the game.
These are some of them
if somebody complaints about low server population this is the answer:
Welcome to MMOs that are not World of Warcraft
“
If the person insist on the topic his answers is (now he is getting mad)
They are working on server transfers and that has been confirmed, is that good enough for you?
If somebody suggests FTP (he is still mad)
Yes, every MMO should go free to play because a certain thing about it bothers you
If somebody continue talking about the economical impact of low population his answer is:
f it was really a concern, SOE would be rushing to remedy the situation.
They're obviously more than happy with the current population of the servers matching their forecasted results or there would be ALOT more presence on these forums.
In another tread, somebody complained about low population again (it does not matter if the player complaining is in a empty server, he replies based on his)
I'm on Death and Glory hero side and I log at all times of the day.
Watchtower is always full of people, if I do collections/races for an hour I always get jumped a few times and whenever I queue for an arena or alert it pops instantly.
Pretty sure your expectations are unrealistic, don't expect WoW size population here
This is another post about the same question above:
I wish people would stop acting like all the servers are dead.
I was on D&G tonight and there was like 30 people sitting in some random bridge in the watchtower and queues are really good at end game.
Reminded me of launch, I guess more people are rerolling that we realize.
When somebody reminds him that most servers are empty (in the pc in reality only 2 o 3 servers have medium population at peak hrs, most of the time they are low):
Oh I have no doubt it is a reality for some of the smaller servers.
But not all of the servers have a problem, is what i'm getting at
If somebody asks, if you are happy with the direction of the game:
Yes!
Keep the fixes coming hard and fast, the alert finder is better but not perfect and that is one of the main draws for me as I don't play extremely often.
This MMO is basically perfect for a casual player.
If somebody complaints about the new content being more of the same stuff or very similar to what we have or content that gets old right away:
I'm loving it.
If we see the same amount of content in the april update PLUS an extra raid/alert or even being overly ambitious a new powerset or movement type then i'll be very happy indeed.
Since the quarterly updates ARE meant to be larger in scope.
Sometimes he accepts the servers are low and try to get people to reroll to his server. Sometimes is so ridiculous that he even mentions that people with 60 points are rerolling too. Anyone who has played this knows how difficult it is to get 40 skill points:
Death and Glory is pretty awesome. Lots of people are rerolling here because the server is so active, even those with 60+ skill points.
Maybe you guys should give it a go, if you got what it takes?
If somebody says that GW is more MMO than DCUO (regardless if the world is empty):
Don't agree, theres no world (Gotham and Metro are the world)
again if somebody complained about new monthly content not worth a subscription:
except this time instead of paying for a persistent world (well there is one, two HUGE cities that take ages to travel across, but opinions may vary) we are paying for content patches every month.
One month after release we are getting quite alot for $15, I won't quote it all but you have to agree its worth $15 over COD's four maps for $25
The real problem with servers mergers in a game this young is that it doesn't really solve anything. It is a temporary solution to current population problems, but without fixing the issues that caused so many players to leave in the first place then the situations will just repeat itself in the near future.
Fixing the problems to stop the losses is paramount, but at the same time ignoring population issues allows the population to continue to decline.
RadarX has said they are working on server transfer tools, but if they repeat the same methods used in other soe games that will just make matters worse. The freedom of those tools will over populate a small set of servers as everyone tries to get to "the servers with population". The remaining servers will just see more population decline and more players quitting.
Most likely it will be a repeat of Starsider/AntoniaBayle. The sad part is that it will most likley have a hefty fee for the honor of addressing the problem.
I have yet to see an action based combat MMO be anything more than niche, which means niche numbers of course. Until they can entice console gamers to pay to play, you'll never see a very popular action MMO. Lets face it, most PC gamers play on PC's for a reason, as an alternative gaming platform that gets away from twitch combat for more thoughtful, slower paced adventuring.
the Raids were fun to do, but there was only 2 for ever, now they added 1 more. but even these you can only do once a week. and the rest of the time you just grind hard modes and duos, that gets old after day 2, same maps over and over and over and over.......
too bad, the current players dont see it that way, at least the game could improve. Righ now, they see everything as a paradise or game utopia. Anything that is not right, they see it as normal in a new MMO.
As a current player myself this isn't entirely fair and although, as with every mmo, there are blinkered fanbois who shout out over the equally blinkered haters those two groups are a tiny subset of the vast majority of us who know the volume of content is lacking atm. Its a new game, as with every other recent release it went retail too early, unlike every other recent release the core game is actually pretty fresh and fun so it warrants the extra effort needed to make it progress so there is plenty of pressure and suggestions being fired at the devs to expand content as rapidly as possible.
The one point I would suggest is hurting/compromising progress is SoE's own forum policing which is far too draconian/aggressive you don't get long to flesh out ideas.
Overall DCUO is a great starting point, but it has to evolve and develop quickly and it has to do this in the face of the lag SoE bring to the table.....but in all honesty I think given half a chance it is sufficiently good at the core, where it really matters, to win through.
Check what a fanboy is
This is from poster that is in love with the game. I took it from the PC DCUO forums and lets see what you think
in DCUO there is a tool to see all post from any poster. This guy in particular has 1,607, most of then supporting the game.
These are some of them
if somebody complaints about low server population this is the answer:
Welcome to MMOs that are not World of Warcraft
“
If the person insist on the topic his answers is (now he is getting mad)
They are working on server transfers and that has been confirmed, is that good enough for you?
If somebody suggests FTP (he is still mad)
Yes, every MMO should go free to play because a certain thing about it bothers you
If somebody continue talking about the economical impact of low population his answer is:
f it was really a concern, SOE would be rushing to remedy the situation.
They're obviously more than happy with the current population of the servers matching their forecasted results or there would be ALOT more presence on these forums.
In another tread, somebody complained about low population again (it does not matter if the player complaining is in a empty server, he replies based on his)
I'm on Death and Glory hero side and I log at all times of the day.
Watchtower is always full of people, if I do collections/races for an hour I always get jumped a few times and whenever I queue for an arena or alert it pops instantly.
Pretty sure your expectations are unrealistic, don't expect WoW size population here
This is another post about the same question above:
I wish people would stop acting like all the servers are dead.
I was on D&G tonight and there was like 30 people sitting in some random bridge in the watchtower and queues are really good at end game.
Reminded me of launch, I guess more people are rerolling that we realize.
When somebody reminds him that most servers are empty (in the pc in reality only 2 o 3 servers have medium population at peak hrs, most of the time they are low):
Oh I have no doubt it is a reality for some of the smaller servers.
But not all of the servers have a problem, is what i'm getting at
If somebody asks, if you are happy with the direction of the game:
Yes!
Keep the fixes coming hard and fast, the alert finder is better but not perfect and that is one of the main draws for me as I don't play extremely often.
This MMO is basically perfect for a casual player.
If somebody complaints about the new content being more of the same stuff or very similar to what we have or content that gets old right away:
I'm loving it.
If we see the same amount of content in the april update PLUS an extra raid/alert or even being overly ambitious a new powerset or movement type then i'll be very happy indeed.
Since the quarterly updates ARE meant to be larger in scope.
Sometimes he accepts the servers are low and try to get people to reroll to his server. Sometimes is so ridiculous that he even mentions that people with 60 points are rerolling too. Anyone who has played this knows how difficult it is to get 40 skill points:
Death and Glory is pretty awesome. Lots of people are rerolling here because the server is so active, even those with 60+ skill points.
Maybe you guys should give it a go, if you got what it takes?
If somebody says that GW is more MMO than DCUO (regardless if the world is empty):
Don't agree, theres no world (Gotham and Metro are the world)
again if somebody complained about new monthly content not worth a subscription:
except this time instead of paying for a persistent world (well there is one, two HUGE cities that take ages to travel across, but opinions may vary) we are paying for content patches every month.
One month after release we are getting quite alot for $15, I won't quote it all but you have to agree its worth $15 over COD's four maps for $25
Fanboi's exist I'm not sure what citing the replies by one proves and this is extreme - very few people have time to log 1,600+ replies in 2 months so its hardly representatitve of the majority of the board. The extremes ie fanbois & haters are the minority and they make themselves sufficiently obvious to be easily skipped, the important stuff is what comes from the ones between these extremes.
The simple fact is the vast majority of people playing the game, and the subset who go the extra mile to visit the official forums, are actually very much aware that a lot more needs to be done and are offering suggestions and raising concerns to address them...soe being soe don't respond direwctly and have draconian forum policies to ensure few discussions last long but the players still respond because they percieve some potential, and that arises from the experience had to date and the broader experience that its supremely naive to expect an instant turn around on any coding/design issue.
I've never seen a game empty our as fast as it has on the PC version of this. It doesn't matter when I pop on or what day, its low pop and I'm lucky to see maybe 5 people in Doom ( villian side, Darkness Falls) and no answers to shouts. Even Champions online seemd to hold out a little longer. When people say Wow had less content they are smoking something good. I didnt max out a character and get the first tier of armor in under a month on WoW or explore everyhing in that time. Mind you I Have no dessire to play WoW anymore. I wanted something new and had high hopes for DCU. Unfortunalty, the game was just too darn easy and didn't have enough copntent to hold interest. Maybe in a year it will be more engaging.
* still have 2 months on my 3 month sub but no desire to play it single player (
I'm glad I got a chance to beta this game and see that SOE hasn't changed at all. I put them and Cryptic at the top of my list of companies that I will never buy another MMO title from.
I'm glad I got a chance to beta this game and see that SOE hasn't changed at all. I put them and Cryptic at the top of my list of companies that I will never buy another MMO title from.
Amen to that. And now that one of the head guys from Cryptic, John Needham, has moved to Gazillion I am going to go ahead and add them to that list as well
For those that it did detect it is trending a rather large decline in the game.
Historically xfire has been very accurate about a games population trend.
Originally posted by Cavod
The only thing Xfire is good for is telling which games Xfire users play most often. Everything else is conjecture whether you like it or not. I suppose now I have to sit tight and watch while the young male Xfire fans foam at the mouth about how accurate Xfire is. *rolls eyes*
Saying exactly what I did but in a refuting manner, I see what you did there.
...about it being historically accurate... POIDH, burden of proof and all that good stuff. Also, incase you didn't know: conjecture
Lastly, the part you said about pet peeve was meaningless and argumentative to the discussion. The part about it not tracking my game does infact matter when we're talking about activity of all users and not just xfire users. If I'm a player of DCUO and an user of xfire yet xfire refuses to track my DCUO time despite executing the known fixes how does that not matter? That's the exact definition of pertinence for this situation. lol That's not even taking into consideration the less tech savvy people out there along with the non-xfire users nor the PS3 users. >_>;;
I see through the tactics employed here.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Xfire is NOT about how many people are playing, so it doesn't matter if xifre detected your client or not. All that matters is that it does detect a certain number of players and since release those numbers have drastically gone down.
The same exact thing is happening with the raptr and steam numbers. Upwards of an 80% decline. All three TRENDING tools are showing massive dropoff.
As for proof, just go look at the xfire numbers for Age of Conan and Warhammer online. People said xfire wasn't accurate back then too. They gave a ton of very valid reason that are scientifically accurate about statistics and sampling. Despite all of that xfire was spot on accurate about predicting the massive decline of those games.
If you think the numbers are wrong in this case all you need to do is go read the forums and listen to how frequent the subject of server mergers, transfers, empty servers, lack of players is.
If you are seeing some "tactics" being employeed then you are searching for a reason to justify your peeve about xfire. It is just information that anyone can check up on. No spin, no gimmicks, just information and sticking your fingers in your ears will not change that.
Xfire is NOT about how many people are playing, so it doesn't matter if xifre detected your client or not. All that matters is that it does detect a certain number of players and since release those numbers have drastically gone down.
The same exact thing is happening with the raptr and steam numbers. Upwards of an 80% decline. All three TRENDING tools are showing massive dropoff.
As for proof, just go look at the xfire numbers for Age of Conan and Warhammer online. People said xfire wasn't accurate back then too. They gave a ton of very valid reason that are scientifically accurate about statistics and sampling. Despite all of that xfire was spot on accurate about predicting the massive decline of those games.
If you think the numbers are wrong in this case all you need to do is go read the forums and listen to how frequent the subject of server mergers, transfers, empty servers, lack of players is.
If you are seeing some "tactics" being employeed then you are searching for a reason to justify your peeve about xfire. It is just information that anyone can check up on. No spin, no gimmicks, just information and sticking your fingers in your ears will not change that.
Let me just get this out of the way, I agree about the game's decline, I never said otherwise. I'm refuting xfire, not the decline.
"Xfire is NOT about how many people are playing"
"For those that it did detect it is trending a rather large decline in the game.
Historically xfire has been very accurate about a games population trend."
Your words, not mine. So it's not about how many people are playing, it's about the population and the decline/increase of said population... um... ???.... same thing? To track rise and decline, it first has to be capable of accurately tracking population. If there's a flaw in population tracking, there will be a larger flaw in the rise/decline tracking. This is not my opinion, this is scientific fact.
I could say the same thing about you not recognizing your tactics because you're trying to justify your conjecture but that'd just be argumentative so let's kill that useless topic for the sake of this board and it's rules.
I don't know what else to say if you think it's not important that a 'trending tool' is having a problem pooling it's own subjects. If we can't agree now then we will never agree and this is exactly what I knew would happen when I posted.
My original comment:
"The only thing Xfire is good for is telling which games Xfire users play most often.
Everything else is conjecture..."
If you want to prove xfire right, then get official numbers and line them up with xfire results. If they prove accurate for said game then congrats, you prove xfire right for that game.(but not all games) Every game has it's own unique variables. Inferring another game's seemingly reliable outcome onto others is inaccurate.
Social standards dictate that it's your responsibility to support your asserting claim.(see burden of proof link) If you say there's a big pink invisible elephant floating above your house, it's your responsibility to prove it and not my responsibility to track down where you live and disprove it. So, until you can prove xfire correct as you claim, it is infact conjecture as I said. I won't bother arguing semantics and rhetoric anymore, this discussion has turned into an argument and I don't want to be a part of the inevitable infractions of that route.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Xfire is not going to tell an overall population of the game or specifically how many people are playing it. Nor will it show you how many people are playing game A compared to game B on the xfire list. It just shows the trend of the games population. Sorry if that was not clear enough for you. I thought most of that would go without needing to be repeated. So sorry if my glossing over those points was confusing.
The strangest part about your stance is that you are quick to agree with some nameless people who post on a message forum that the game is in decline, despite any real burden of proof. Yet you quickly dismiss xfire which has far more real data than you or I have access to. That strikes me as being rather strange for someone who runs to the alter of wikipedia definitions and demands for burdens of proof.
Anyhow I'm not saying xfire is the standard and beyond refute, but despite the many claims like yours, it has been accurate about trends in several mmos. Perhaps there is something we are not seeing and xfire is crazy wrong about DCU.
Perhaps there is something we are not seeing and xfire is crazy wrong about DCU like you claim there is. Perhaps before you go beating on me for burden of proof for statements, you can do the same thing for you own which sort of started this whole discussion?
"Xfire is as inaccurate as ever and then some with this game. " [link]
In a technical nitpicking sort of way you were the first to make claims about xfire being incorrect, so by the social standards you listed the burden of proof falls on you?
Honestly I don't expect you to give any proof, because you are just speaking your opinion as if it is a fact and beating on me for speaking a few facts about xfires past track record and drawing some opinions about that. I'll even concede that maybe xfire is crazy inaccurate. Despite the daily cries from DCU players begging for server mergers, transfers and complaining about population decline, maybe something is drastically different about this game that is throwing the results off so wildly. It is just going to take a little more than your techincal problems with the software and a personal pet peeves to be convincing.
The four German servers are essentially DEAD like a graveyard most of the time. Granted DC comics aren't so popular here as in USA, but even trashy CO and old CoX have their populations on German servers.
The US server Vice and Victory where I am mostly on now is ok population-wise if you play hero in Metropolis. Strangely Gotham is less populated. Another issue is: the cities of DCU are HUGE and they span in all 3 directions. So the not so many people are even spread out more. So you can spent a lot of time fighting without meeting many others. It's not a bad game, but I am sure they will be in VERY troubled waters soon.
Only 30 levels, way too less content, way too few costumes and powers all considerably limit the time you can play DCU. A pity, combat is mostly fun and the cities are visually nothing but breathtaking IMO. If SOE does not conjure up a BIG patch, and soon, DCU is soon very very screwed. And we don't REALLY expect SOE to manage that, do we now?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The four German servers are essentially DEAD like a graveyard most of the time. Granted DC comics aren't so popular here as in USA, but even trashy CO and old CoX have their populations on German servers.
The US server Vice and Victory where I am mostly on now is ok population-wise if you play hero in Metropolis. Strangely Gotham is less populated. Another issue is: the cities of DCU are HUGE and they span in all 3 directions. So the not so many people are even spread out more. So you can spent a lot of time fighting without meeting many others. It's not a bad game, but I am sure they will be in VERY troubled waters soon.
Only 30 levels, way too less content, way too few costumes and powers all considerably limit the time you can play DCU. A pity, combat is mostly fun and the cities are visually nothing but breathtaking IMO. If SOE does not conjure up a BIG patch, and soon, DCU is soon very very screwed. And we don't REALLY expect SOE to manage that, do we now?
I don't feel so downbeat as yourself and indeed this last week seems to be recovering some population - I always played the US servers though despite being from the UK - it just seems inevitable they are going to be the most consistent and lag has been non existent for me.
Part of the ongoing problem is the game structure, as the game ages so more of the population is level 30 and in the endgame....where does that endgame take you, off into instances where even chat struggles to penetrate. The game offers a wonderful environment full and immersive, but once you hit 30 everything seems designed to keep you away, this is a problem they have to address imo.
Most mmos assume you sepnd the majority of your life levelling and less in endgame and therefore it makes sense to leave the open world clear for the levelling characters....but DCUO has bucked that trend levelling is actually consumes far less of your life, the endgame is the major occupier so the big open city is where the endgame should play out while the instances (where level gating could limit instance of ganking in contentious zones) is the right place for the levelling of characters. The tutorial should drop you into the watchtower or Hall of doom to learn your skills and powers as you are tp'ed from zone to zone on assigned missions...as you rise in level you get more and more freedom till the late 20's when you are cut lose into the city and your real personal journey begins.
Comments
It really is a pointless argument, players are gone, and you are right in stating it is unlikely they'll be back within the next 4 months. Fixing the bugs and releasing new content followed by another PR push could resurge the population, but in all honesty, this was the time they had to pull me in and take my money. I was ready to play this game until SWTOR or Skryim, but with the way things have been, I wasn't playing nearly as much as before and it allowed me to try out Xsyon, and now I'll be playing that while my enjoyment lasts there.
All the problems aside, DCUO really did have some fun and excitement going for it... it was *almost* everything I wanted in an action MMO. I'm afraid we won't see combat like this in an MMO for a long time, and TERA is pretty much akin to the phantasy star series with the way their action combat plays. I'm very happy I bought DCUO just like I was with SWG, but just like in SWG I feel like the fun ended too soon when it didn't have to.
They'll go F2P with M/T's. I'd almost bet money on it. I think it's been their plan for a long time. If not, I probably will give it another go when the box hits the bargain bin.
I agree with this. SOE spent a lot of time not commenting on how they were going to model payments for DCU and the gameplay does look like it could fit a F2P model somewhat decent. As with most of the game it is stuck somewhere inbetween two aspects. In this case a price model.
You are correct that is is pointless for us to argue our views of why players are gone already. In the long run however, companies will look back at this game to see what went wrong. It is sort of the first mmo for console platforms, so much of what DCU does will be examined under a microscope when other companies consider making mmos for consoles.
I agree that the game has some pretty cool stuff in it, just not enough of it and it was released far to early. It should still be in beta right now.
Few points, Halo is one example I gave as people go to great lengths for the game. Its one of the few titles people buy systems for, and some people play it exclusively. While it is somewhat flawed to think they are paying monthly ONLY for halo, the truth could very well be that may players do currently play only halo whilst paying for Xbox live.
Even in SWG I didn't feel particularly attached to any one thing although I enjoyed the game immensely. A friend of mine and I reminisced about our time just the other day, and despite the enjoyment we had playing it, (most notably with the launch of JTL) we never spoke about the downtime activities like the cantinas. Buff lines notwithstanding. Perhaps we are just different players, you and I. Likewise I enjoyed the crafting in fallen earth, but found the combat to be quite enjoyable too.
Maybe I just don't take as much involvement in MMOs coming from a different line of gaming altogether. (I was a console player for a number of years, rarely playing PC games - with the obvious exception or two). In those games I was always pushed by an underlying drive and sense of skillful accomplishment to achieve goals, it relied much less on interdependancy and forced socialization.
For someone like myself a game that is enjoyable more or less mechanically but faulters in other places can still be considered a good game. While its very obvious for some others here that this genre in particular requires necessary "downtime" activites to enhance some sort of extended socialization or reliance on others. While these kind of community building tools may seem necessary, its rare to find one thats enjoyable to do. Its almost as if people put up with mind numbing, soul crushing systems sometimes just because it could enhance a community experience... much like putting up with ridiclous comments on your facebook wall from people you hardly know.
Everyone has their own opinion on what this game did wrong, thats apparent, and what I've seen and experienced in my very close observation and mostly daily play here is what drove my subscription decision, and my opinion, of what this game was and how this game was, to where I am now. As stated though, it doesn't matter how it happened to us - the players - in the end, it is what happened.
Um, yeah that sounds like a lot of fun...
I will keep it brief for you.
Most of the people still playing DCUO like the game and dont care to do the same dailies forever (even them will be tired at some point, they just dont acept it or know it yet)
An MMO need people with different tastes in game.: Explorers, social, achievers, farmers, merchant, pvp oriented, storyline oriented, ect. They all play toguether and make things happen for everyone.
when any of those people complain about the game no longer meeting these needs, the fanboys start telling them :
-if you dont like the game, RIFT is there
-sometimes they tell you plain and simple: GTFO
- go back to WOW
-If you ran the content in a week is not my fault
- the game is in the infancy give it some time.
- WOW had way less content than this one at Vanilla
- Few populations is normal after the free month
-sometimes they even tell you to do things that you dont need or things that are not fun at all, like complete feats, get more gear and so on.
and many other things that the fanboys say that you get surprised sometimes.
Dont be surprised if you are the only ones playing.
Like the above poster said, game ended in a week.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
maskedweasel
Dude the game lacks proper end content. Myself, I only tried WOW for a week and i did not like it. I dont know what end content is there.
I will use another game as a sample. Perfect world International (PWI) by no means better than DCUO but the end game is way way way way way better than DCUO as the end game is meaninfull and proper and you get the feeling of the end game very early.
I will break it down for you:
- the game has territorial wars (TW), in which the powerfull guilds are competing for territories.
-when the server opens, nobody owns territories, they are occupied by mobs. So, your guild must take the territory from the mobs. For tha,t your guild goes to an arena place to fight them. If you win, you own the territory.
-By keeping the territory your guild earns coins that are later used to defend the territory from other guilds.
-If your guild wants to participate in TW, they must participate in a bid process, the higher bidder gets the right to face the guild owning that territory. Keep in mind there are many territories and many guilds trying to dominate the entire map.
By above you should understand that if you want to go to TW, you must be well geared to be accepted in a TW guild. Also, since the guild wants to win (as they need every member to be powerfull), they will help you to get your powerfull gear and so on.
Guilds will also farm gear to get money for TW ( as they need money to bid).
No need to say all the spying and betrayal going on, batle plans, ect.
Saying that, this is just a sample of end game. Dont see it as PWI is a good game or anything like that.
Check what a fanboy is
This is from poster that is in love with the game. I took it from the PC DCUO forums and lets see what you think
in DCUO there is a tool to see all post from any poster. This guy in particular has 1,607, most of then supporting the game.
These are some of them
if somebody complaints about low server population this is the answer:
Welcome to MMOs that are not World of Warcraft
“
If the person insist on the topic his answers is (now he is getting mad)
They are working on server transfers and that has been confirmed, is that good enough for you?
If somebody suggests FTP (he is still mad)
Yes, every MMO should go free to play because a certain thing about it bothers you
If somebody continue talking about the economical impact of low population his answer is:
f it was really a concern, SOE would be rushing to remedy the situation.
They're obviously more than happy with the current population of the servers matching their forecasted results or there would be ALOT more presence on these forums.
In another tread, somebody complained about low population again (it does not matter if the player complaining is in a empty server, he replies based on his)
I'm on Death and Glory hero side and I log at all times of the day.
Watchtower is always full of people, if I do collections/races for an hour I always get jumped a few times and whenever I queue for an arena or alert it pops instantly.
Pretty sure your expectations are unrealistic, don't expect WoW size population here
This is another post about the same question above:
I wish people would stop acting like all the servers are dead.
I was on D&G tonight and there was like 30 people sitting in some random bridge in the watchtower and queues are really good at end game.
Reminded me of launch, I guess more people are rerolling that we realize.
When somebody reminds him that most servers are empty (in the pc in reality only 2 o 3 servers have medium population at peak hrs, most of the time they are low):
Oh I have no doubt it is a reality for some of the smaller servers.
But not all of the servers have a problem, is what i'm getting at
If somebody asks, if you are happy with the direction of the game:
Yes!
Keep the fixes coming hard and fast, the alert finder is better but not perfect and that is one of the main draws for me as I don't play extremely often.
This MMO is basically perfect for a casual player.
If somebody complaints about the new content being more of the same stuff or very similar to what we have or content that gets old right away:
I'm loving it.
If we see the same amount of content in the april update PLUS an extra raid/alert or even being overly ambitious a new powerset or movement type then i'll be very happy indeed.
Since the quarterly updates ARE meant to be larger in scope.
Sometimes he accepts the servers are low and try to get people to reroll to his server. Sometimes is so ridiculous that he even mentions that people with 60 points are rerolling too. Anyone who has played this knows how difficult it is to get 40 skill points:
Death and Glory is pretty awesome. Lots of people are rerolling here because the server is so active, even those with 60+ skill points.
Maybe you guys should give it a go, if you got what it takes?
If somebody says that GW is more MMO than DCUO (regardless if the world is empty):
Don't agree, theres no world (Gotham and Metro are the world)
again if somebody complained about new monthly content not worth a subscription:
except this time instead of paying for a persistent world (well there is one, two HUGE cities that take ages to travel across, but opinions may vary) we are paying for content patches every month.
One month after release we are getting quite alot for $15, I won't quote it all but you have to agree its worth $15 over COD's four maps for $25
i would play it if was a one time fee or free to play
The real problem with servers mergers in a game this young is that it doesn't really solve anything. It is a temporary solution to current population problems, but without fixing the issues that caused so many players to leave in the first place then the situations will just repeat itself in the near future.
Fixing the problems to stop the losses is paramount, but at the same time ignoring population issues allows the population to continue to decline.
RadarX has said they are working on server transfer tools, but if they repeat the same methods used in other soe games that will just make matters worse. The freedom of those tools will over populate a small set of servers as everyone tries to get to "the servers with population". The remaining servers will just see more population decline and more players quitting.
Most likely it will be a repeat of Starsider/AntoniaBayle. The sad part is that it will most likley have a hefty fee for the honor of addressing the problem.
I have yet to see an action based combat MMO be anything more than niche, which means niche numbers of course. Until they can entice console gamers to pay to play, you'll never see a very popular action MMO. Lets face it, most PC gamers play on PC's for a reason, as an alternative gaming platform that gets away from twitch combat for more thoughtful, slower paced adventuring.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Fanboi's exist I'm not sure what citing the replies by one proves and this is extreme - very few people have time to log 1,600+ replies in 2 months so its hardly representatitve of the majority of the board. The extremes ie fanbois & haters are the minority and they make themselves sufficiently obvious to be easily skipped, the important stuff is what comes from the ones between these extremes.
The simple fact is the vast majority of people playing the game, and the subset who go the extra mile to visit the official forums, are actually very much aware that a lot more needs to be done and are offering suggestions and raising concerns to address them...soe being soe don't respond direwctly and have draconian forum policies to ensure few discussions last long but the players still respond because they percieve some potential, and that arises from the experience had to date and the broader experience that its supremely naive to expect an instant turn around on any coding/design issue.
I've never seen a game empty our as fast as it has on the PC version of this. It doesn't matter when I pop on or what day, its low pop and I'm lucky to see maybe 5 people in Doom ( villian side, Darkness Falls) and no answers to shouts. Even Champions online seemd to hold out a little longer. When people say Wow had less content they are smoking something good. I didnt max out a character and get the first tier of armor in under a month on WoW or explore everyhing in that time. Mind you I Have no dessire to play WoW anymore. I wanted something new and had high hopes for DCU. Unfortunalty, the game was just too darn easy and didn't have enough copntent to hold interest. Maybe in a year it will be more engaging.
* still have 2 months on my 3 month sub but no desire to play it single player (
I'm glad I got a chance to beta this game and see that SOE hasn't changed at all. I put them and Cryptic at the top of my list of companies that I will never buy another MMO title from.
Amen to that. And now that one of the head guys from Cryptic, John Needham, has moved to Gazillion I am going to go ahead and add them to that list as well
Saying exactly what I did but in a refuting manner, I see what you did there.
...about it being historically accurate... POIDH, burden of proof and all that good stuff. Also, incase you didn't know: conjecture
Lastly, the part you said about pet peeve was meaningless and argumentative to the discussion. The part about it not tracking my game does infact matter when we're talking about activity of all users and not just xfire users. If I'm a player of DCUO and an user of xfire yet xfire refuses to track my DCUO time despite executing the known fixes how does that not matter? That's the exact definition of pertinence for this situation. lol That's not even taking into consideration the less tech savvy people out there along with the non-xfire users nor the PS3 users. >_>;;
I see through the tactics employed here.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Xfire is NOT about how many people are playing, so it doesn't matter if xifre detected your client or not. All that matters is that it does detect a certain number of players and since release those numbers have drastically gone down.
The same exact thing is happening with the raptr and steam numbers. Upwards of an 80% decline. All three TRENDING tools are showing massive dropoff.
As for proof, just go look at the xfire numbers for Age of Conan and Warhammer online. People said xfire wasn't accurate back then too. They gave a ton of very valid reason that are scientifically accurate about statistics and sampling. Despite all of that xfire was spot on accurate about predicting the massive decline of those games.
If you think the numbers are wrong in this case all you need to do is go read the forums and listen to how frequent the subject of server mergers, transfers, empty servers, lack of players is.
If you are seeing some "tactics" being employeed then you are searching for a reason to justify your peeve about xfire. It is just information that anyone can check up on. No spin, no gimmicks, just information and sticking your fingers in your ears will not change that.
Let me just get this out of the way, I agree about the game's decline, I never said otherwise. I'm refuting xfire, not the decline.
"Xfire is NOT about how many people are playing"
"For those that it did detect it is trending a rather large decline in the game.
Historically xfire has been very accurate about a games population trend."
Your words, not mine. So it's not about how many people are playing, it's about the population and the decline/increase of said population... um... ???.... same thing? To track rise and decline, it first has to be capable of accurately tracking population. If there's a flaw in population tracking, there will be a larger flaw in the rise/decline tracking. This is not my opinion, this is scientific fact.
I could say the same thing about you not recognizing your tactics because you're trying to justify your conjecture but that'd just be argumentative so let's kill that useless topic for the sake of this board and it's rules.
I don't know what else to say if you think it's not important that a 'trending tool' is having a problem pooling it's own subjects. If we can't agree now then we will never agree and this is exactly what I knew would happen when I posted.
My original comment:
"The only thing Xfire is good for is telling which games Xfire users play most often.
Everything else is conjecture..."
If you want to prove xfire right, then get official numbers and line them up with xfire results. If they prove accurate for said game then congrats, you prove xfire right for that game.(but not all games) Every game has it's own unique variables. Inferring another game's seemingly reliable outcome onto others is inaccurate.
burden of proof
conjecture
Social standards dictate that it's your responsibility to support your asserting claim.(see burden of proof link) If you say there's a big pink invisible elephant floating above your house, it's your responsibility to prove it and not my responsibility to track down where you live and disprove it. So, until you can prove xfire correct as you claim, it is infact conjecture as I said. I won't bother arguing semantics and rhetoric anymore, this discussion has turned into an argument and I don't want to be a part of the inevitable infractions of that route.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Xfire is not going to tell an overall population of the game or specifically how many people are playing it. Nor will it show you how many people are playing game A compared to game B on the xfire list. It just shows the trend of the games population. Sorry if that was not clear enough for you. I thought most of that would go without needing to be repeated. So sorry if my glossing over those points was confusing.
The strangest part about your stance is that you are quick to agree with some nameless people who post on a message forum that the game is in decline, despite any real burden of proof. Yet you quickly dismiss xfire which has far more real data than you or I have access to. That strikes me as being rather strange for someone who runs to the alter of wikipedia definitions and demands for burdens of proof.
Anyhow I'm not saying xfire is the standard and beyond refute, but despite the many claims like yours, it has been accurate about trends in several mmos. Perhaps there is something we are not seeing and xfire is crazy wrong about DCU.
Perhaps there is something we are not seeing and xfire is crazy wrong about DCU like you claim there is. Perhaps before you go beating on me for burden of proof for statements, you can do the same thing for you own which sort of started this whole discussion?
"Xfire is as inaccurate as ever and then some with this game. " [link]
In a technical nitpicking sort of way you were the first to make claims about xfire being incorrect, so by the social standards you listed the burden of proof falls on you?
Honestly I don't expect you to give any proof, because you are just speaking your opinion as if it is a fact and beating on me for speaking a few facts about xfires past track record and drawing some opinions about that. I'll even concede that maybe xfire is crazy inaccurate. Despite the daily cries from DCU players begging for server mergers, transfers and complaining about population decline, maybe something is drastically different about this game that is throwing the results off so wildly. It is just going to take a little more than your techincal problems with the software and a personal pet peeves to be convincing.
The four German servers are essentially DEAD like a graveyard most of the time. Granted DC comics aren't so popular here as in USA, but even trashy CO and old CoX have their populations on German servers.
The US server Vice and Victory where I am mostly on now is ok population-wise if you play hero in Metropolis. Strangely Gotham is less populated. Another issue is: the cities of DCU are HUGE and they span in all 3 directions. So the not so many people are even spread out more. So you can spent a lot of time fighting without meeting many others. It's not a bad game, but I am sure they will be in VERY troubled waters soon.
Only 30 levels, way too less content, way too few costumes and powers all considerably limit the time you can play DCU. A pity, combat is mostly fun and the cities are visually nothing but breathtaking IMO. If SOE does not conjure up a BIG patch, and soon, DCU is soon very very screwed. And we don't REALLY expect SOE to manage that, do we now?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't feel so downbeat as yourself and indeed this last week seems to be recovering some population - I always played the US servers though despite being from the UK - it just seems inevitable they are going to be the most consistent and lag has been non existent for me.
Part of the ongoing problem is the game structure, as the game ages so more of the population is level 30 and in the endgame....where does that endgame take you, off into instances where even chat struggles to penetrate. The game offers a wonderful environment full and immersive, but once you hit 30 everything seems designed to keep you away, this is a problem they have to address imo.
Most mmos assume you sepnd the majority of your life levelling and less in endgame and therefore it makes sense to leave the open world clear for the levelling characters....but DCUO has bucked that trend levelling is actually consumes far less of your life, the endgame is the major occupier so the big open city is where the endgame should play out while the instances (where level gating could limit instance of ganking in contentious zones) is the right place for the levelling of characters. The tutorial should drop you into the watchtower or Hall of doom to learn your skills and powers as you are tp'ed from zone to zone on assigned missions...as you rise in level you get more and more freedom till the late 20's when you are cut lose into the city and your real personal journey begins.