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It's sad. All these games, and not one to play...
nethervoid
Member UncommonPosts: 533
Anarchy OnlineAsheron's CallAsheron's Call 2City of HeroesDark Age of CamelotEVE OnlineEverquestEverquest IIFinal Fantasy XIGuild WarsHorizonsKnight OnlineLineage IIThe Matrix OnlineNeocronPlanetsideRagnarok OnlineRYL: Path of the EmperorSavage EdenShadowbaneStar Wars GalaxiesStarportThe Saga of RyzomThe Sims OnlineUltima OnlineWorld of WarcraftWorld War II Online
MapleStory
All these games, and not a one to play. I've played the oldies to death, and can't really start the old schoolers that I have never played, because the newbie base is dead. The new games suck.
Look at all those titles, and I'm STILL waiting for a game to play! GRRRR!
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
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This is the feeling a lot of peoples around are getting! We are used to be PLAYING and having fun, I say we blame the devs for this!
They intend on doing this, must be a plot! Make a very good game, get peoples addicted, then let them starve with lack of anything new but similar ever again!
Bad bad devs!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. I know the feeling. I've pre-ordered nearly every MMO for the past several years, and still have yet to find anything that really grabbed me. After four years in Asheron's Call, I sort of just became a serial tourist of virtual worlds. I did spend a year in SWG, though most of that was spent just hoping it would live up to its potential. Everytime a new game gets released, I rush into it thinking "Maybe this is it!," but it just hasn't been the case so far.
Worse yet, all the time I've spent in the various MMOs has given me a list of a few great features from each of them. Whenever I go into a new game now, I bring all of those features with me in a mental checklist. I've seen the "good" in other games, so the smart shopper in me subconsciously expects new products to contain those good features. When they don't, disappointment ensues.
I think a lot of us who have been doing this for awhile have become somewhat saturated, and more than just a little jaded. We're the old folks who sit on our porches talking about the "good old days." "I remember when I first stepped into Dereth and got attacked by those mosswarts! Oh, those were the days! And remember when the seasons changed and we had all those snowball fights near Mayoi? Fantastic!"
It's difficult for anything to measure up to nostalgia, although it doesn't really seem like anyone in the gaming industry is using the same measuring sticks that made those older titles magic for so many. The current crop of games seems quite shallow and rather extreme. Even "casual" titles like World of Warcraft culminate in nothing but hardcore, 8-hour raids and pvp. Either games are doing one thing for one group of players (niche titles), or they're trying to do everything for everybody and failing at it. My perception as an average gamer is that art has been eclipsed by business; idealists and visionaries have been replaced with consultants and focus groups. The end result is pablum for the masses rather than satisfaction for the savvy.
Whatcha' gonna do, though? I suppose we either play the games that are available, we vote with our credit cards and play nothing, or we try to make our own. Oh, and of course we can come to message boards and commiserate with other oldtimers who relate to us.
hi nethervoid.
To be honest, I think you should take a break from the whole genre altogether.
I saw your review for Saga of Ryzom recently, it jumps out at me because of something of the things you said about who came up with these rating system anyhow? which I thought was kinda funny. But one of the thing that you mentioned is that you don't much care whether a community is good or bad. To me, the community makes the mmorpgs, any mmorpgs, regardless of whether the game has state of the graphic or just plain text, has horrid gameplays or gameplays that makes you sweat for hours, etc.
I would say a MMORPGs is 80% community and 20% evrything else (I just pulled these numbers outta my bum, but you get the idea). That's what make an mmorpg different from a standalone game. That's what you want to experience when you play an mmorpg, else, why not just play a single player game?
So, I think maybe you are approaching most of these mmorpgs at the wrong angle, having a too critical eye maybe, or failed to get out of them what you can (because you're refusing to). I think maybe you should take a break from the mmorpg games and check back after a while.
Hope you don't take offense, none is meant, just an observation (which may very well be wrong).
Nah you don't know what he means;
I feel exactly like he does
I think its because we were younger that age, when we played the oldies. Now everything is just a rip-off with easy gameplay :P
I've played the last months GW, WoW, EVE, DaoC, L2.. I dont like any of these :
Dragon Raja is going free and I'm going to play it till a good game releases :
if u find one tell me :b
Well, maybe you're right, but I am currently playing counterstrike, guildwars, and saga of ryzom, and I find things to enjoy out of all of them.
Guildwars is defnitely for when I feel like just casual playing without depth, mindless kinda gameplay (very relaxing), and SoR when I want more depth to my gameplay. I don't think I am a fanbois of either game, but I might be wrong :P
SoR has a depth and innovation that are unlike any of the EQ-clone, so I figure nethervoid would like it if he's against the EQ clone types of game, but he doesn't. This is why I think he's becoming a tad too cynical. However, SoR is not as polished as WoW and these other major studio production type are, and there are certainly a lot it's missing, can improve on. But the foundation is there, and what it has, it is already so very different with the rest of the mmorpgs, that I think (and hope) it can survive long enough to become more.
Counterstrike, I just play for the sheer love of adrelinin it gives me :P
But I fired up Fallout and KOTOR once in a while for a little quiet play and have a blast too, without the stress of social interaction.
I totally agree with the first two posts. I have totally lost interest in mmorpgs now. I've been playing WoW for a while, EvE for a couple of years, and a load of others besides.
There seems to be a total lack of originality in games now, I'm really stuggling to find a game with great fantasy and amazment about it, something special. I played UO for the first year it came out, and that was fantastic, it's a bit old now, but was great at the time.
I think the community on mmorpgs has changed too. People playing mmorpgs for the first time and have no history or understanding of the "Original Mmorpgs". They seem quite happy to play any game, no matter how dull, because they think it's the communiy that makes the game.... It's not. The community is always gonna be there, it's the game that makes the community how it feels.
I'm bored of all the games out there, all these new ones seem pants.
If anyone knows of a good game let me know... Have you ever played Divine Divinity? A mmorpg like that would be lovely.
Well you're dead WRONG. So game play, graphics, and content is supposed to be in that 20%?
Give me a break, no wonder so many games end up vaporware if this is all players are looking for
I enjoyed Divine Divinity. It was basically a better version of an offline Diablo. I've just been playing MUDs and downloading a bunch of modifications for Baldur's Gate II recently. Next on my replay list is going to be the latest incarnation of "Pirates!", I think. I have the collector's edition of that, and there's just something fun about raiding a Spanish trade fleet with your commandeered pirate frigates while reggae plays in the background.
I've also been thinking about giving EVE a try, though that's mostly desperation on my part. I'm sure it's a perfectly wonderful game, but I know myself well enough to realize it's not what I'm looking for. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope some of my beta applications bear fruit. I'm most interested in an MMO set in the wild west that I applied to (it looks as unique as anything I've seen), but I have no idea what the actual status of that game is, or even what it will really be like. The website is pretty sparse, so it's all just guesswork at this stage.
Wild West linky
Interesting.... about the wild west game, i've applied for beta also.
EvE is a good space game, it's quite slow combat, mainly a trading kinda game. Quite original, a bit like the old Elite games, or Wingcommander, but with amazing graphics. It's worth giving it a try, but I got bored. I think there is still a 14 day free trial offer, no credit card required.
I'll have to keep an eye on that Wild West Sim
Did any of you stop to think that maybe MMoRPGs are not for you? Each game in itself is basically nothing more then a game board and the pieces with a set of rules. Its upto you to get something out of the games.
There are certain styles of games I do not like, so I don't even consider buying them or even pay much attention to them. But there are thousands of other people who like those games, are either of us right or wrong? no.
Look at what you do like and maybe start from there , most types of games are now coming out with some type of online play, if not play you can still find communities via message boards or something so theat you can interact with others who like the same style of gaming.
Godz of War I call Thee
As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't tried all the free trials in that whole entire list, then you have things that you can try.
Newbie base is dead quickly in all MMORPGs. The reason is simply that nobody is a newbie for long. The best thing you can do for yourself is just to try a free trial, and see if you enjoy the game. Even if the community is smaller than expected, it can be big enough to make lots of friends and get into groups when you hit the mid levels.
I play AC2 a lot, and it has a smaller community compared to newer games, but I hardly notice it. I know lots of people, and I commonly join quest groups with 10 or more people. It should be about the quality of the community, not the number of people. I played WoW for a few months, and the quality of players is terrible. People are stupid children who don't know how to play their class, and drag too many monsters into the group and get everyone killed.
I would rather have a few hundred smart, mature players than thousands of idiots. The point is, try as many games as you can. If you don't think about the size of the community, you may find yourself surprised at how much you are enjoying the game.
I've played probably over 30 MMO's and haven't found one to stick with.
The only MMORPG that is getting the right idea is probably Dark and Light, and It won't be out for quite a while.
30 mmos? And i thought i have played alot of mmorpgs.
Jenuviel, it's almost creepy how you took the words right out of my mouth.
Alas, I'm beginning to fear that I've become so jaded... after the culmination of failure after failure, I wonder if it's me or the games. Nowadays my first reaction is cynicism rather than awe where most MMORPG's are concerned. Have I just seen too much over the years to be excited by anything? Will I ever again feel that giddy anticipation for an MMORPG that I just can't wait to see go gold?
It seems like each game attempts to start over from scratch... in, like you said, a niche market. Star Wars Galaxies had the social aspect nailed, City of Heroes and World of Warcraft brought that 'polished' feeling, Guild Wars is innovative but built to an extremely specific type of gamer, etc... each game has its accomplishments, but none bring all the achievements of the genre together to form an innovative, in depth, well polished, socially inclined, interesting MMORPG that isn't trying to reinvent the wheel. They need to take the good from EVERY game, build upon them, innovate... create an exciting feature list, but not at the cost of the rest of the game. Stop trying to specialize - every MMO's problems stem from the fact that they pulled off something wonderfully well, but because that something received so much attention... the rest of the game suffered.
The obvious counter-argument to my philosophy is that an MMO won't succeed if it spreads itself so thin. It's been tried and failed... Star Wars Galaxies is probably a good example of this, still to this day trying to cater to their diverse player base pulling every which way. I recognize this. It's why I'm jaded.
I've kept myself up to speed despite all this by frequenting websites such as these, leading a multi-gaming guild, and so forth... but each day culminates my growing distaste for gaming in general, as I just don't feel that magic with FPS's, consoles, or what have you.
Well you're dead WRONG. So game play, graphics, and content is supposed to be in that 20%?
Give me a break, no wonder so many games end up vaporware if this is all players are looking for
I agree with Zeth. Community is irrelevant to me. Completely and totally irrelevant.
In CoH it was a nice community, I was taking that as an edge. In EQ pre-Kunark the community was awesome. In EQ post PoP the community was as bad as it could drop to, lower then that is something I have issues to even bring into concept.
Yet, community is hardly what I care for. I play the game for what it is. I more or less add to the community by been a friendly stranger to group with, to help newcomers(I help a lot, kinda enjoy to help) and so on. So despite the fact I add a lot to a community, I frankly cant care less about the community, as long as I can walk away from it and play in my instanced.
Community, for achievers, are irrelevants unless they mess with my achievements, so it is a neutral/lose scenario depending on the game view toward instancing.
For me, and only for me, community is 10% maybe, if you include ''competition'' and rank lists or some form to compare with others. Graphics are 20%. Gameplay divided among group and solo including nasty challenges is what make the game fun to me... When I play a game, I either play with my rl friends, or go solo/grouping with the wave(for a few months I even prefer to go with the wave then group my rl friends to say how deeply interested I was in EQ back then), wherever it bring me...if the wave is nasty in the grouping side(bad community), I will just solo. If the game cant allow me to solo efficiently, I just drop the game, not because of community, because of a wrong gameplay. You cant expect a game community to be good. On every server you have a different community, how can you seriously value community, the 1 data the devs have no power over? I like to held my devs accountable for the game they release, and if they hide behind community talking, I know they fail to deliver a nice game and walk away(oh we change the game according to what the community want...bullshit).
Must group, must raid, must this or that with others will always be a mistake. If someone is a social jerk, he deserve to be left alone, and any game that enforce grouping, raiding, or whatever interaction with such a jerk will fail, since the jerk will become more a jerk with every jerking he does. A community is not a prison. And if the devs think about ''enforcing'' community, they lose me right away. I will happily group a stranger rather then solo...but if that stranger annoy me for any reason, then I will not group him and if the game penalised me, it will lose me. I wont bear lamerzs!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
For all people having identity crisis "is it me or the games?", don't worry.
It s not you.............. it s the games.
All the new games are quite watered, to appeal as many players as possible.
Nothing wrong with that, lots of them are actually fun.
At the moment I am playing WoW which (unbelievebly) i am enjoying it.
Don't get me wrong, this kind of games are just like prostitutes, you use them for sex for a while then you gonna forget about them, when you see new meat. (not that I am encouraging such practise, it is just an euphenism).
What I am looking at the moment, it s true love, and so far after my first love (EQ), I haven't been able to love any other game.
All the devs at the moment are working more on quantity rather than quality, but with the casual market getting saturated, who knows, maybe some devs will come up with a game that will appeal the core players for once (/spotlight on Vanguard)
I think if the devolopers specialize only because they dont want to compete in such a large and growing market.
Nuffsaid
"I've played probably over 30 MMO's and haven't found one to stick with.
The only MMORPG that is getting the right idea is probably Dark and Light, and It won't be out for quite a while."
Dark&Light is going to be just like all the others for you. All those games you played and none of them are good enough. D&L will not be the perfect game for you either because it will have game mechanics you'll hate, or graphics that'll not be right, or something, somewhere in it that will make you quit it too.
I've played many, many MMORPG's since before they had graphical interfaces, in fact I played a type of MMORPG before there were even MUDS, it was all prose based and free-form with just a few rules on how to play and you even had to roll dice (an onscreen macro) to see the outcome of a fight.
Some of you keep bitching and moaning about these games like all of them should be perfect and made a certain way. It isn't going to happen - ever. No game will ever be made that will suit your needs - unless you can come up with the 15+ million dollars it'll take to make your own I guess you're going to be SOL.
For my money, I think Planetside is the best of everything that is out there. It doesn't take months and months of endless grinding to get to the end game. It is very newbie friendly. It has decent graphis for it's age(especially if you have a newer computer with good memory and good graphics card). It has outstanding game play. It has a dash of RTS, mixed with the right amount of RPG element and it is an FPS. It has character development as good if not better than most other MMORPG's on the market. It is constantly having new content added. It also has the best online community of any game on the internet.
Planetside is the best. Nothing I have ever played can compare.
Anofalye, if community means so little to you and some of the others that have responded in this thread why are you all playing MMORPG's? Seems to me that you'd be better off playing single-player based RPG's. Know why I quit playing CoH? CoH is a great game by the way...fun as fun can be, one of the best online games I have ever played, but it lacks one thing - a good game community. That game sucks because of that. Literally...it is, next to WoW one of the worst game ever created because it is not condusive to creating a good online community - both in game and out.
Now a game I love to death is Planetside, and we do have our in game and out of game communites. It is one of the sole reasons why I love to play the game so much. Planetside brings gamers together in a way that no other game I ahve ever played online has done. Community maybe not everything, but it is a very important part of the larger equation in making or breaking a game. If the game doesn't develop a good online community - it soon dies or is basically dead to most gamers.
Want examples:
How about the empty servers of AC2?
How about the dead game that is Horizons?
They no longer have very active communties and those games are basically dead to most gamers.
Granted these games have problems and are considered bad games, but no moreso than any other MMORPG. EQ isn't exactly praised all over the internet. SWG isn't praised all over the internet. Yet they maintain their player base because of the online communties that play them.
Community in these games is important - don't delude yourself thinking they aren't.
In my opinion, what you are all mourning is your youth. Or the year or years when you played EQ. Or whatever game it is that you miss so sorely. I feel the same way but I've identified it.
I can't go back to the days when there were only 2 or 3 MMO's. I can't unlearn Everquest. I can't take a pill that makes me forget what it was like to finish Final Fantasy III--believe me I've tried a lot of pills jk hehe. We're all jaded, pure and simple. Sites like this only add to that problem--you can say to yourself "no one can change my opinion" but all the negative rants and b.s. DO work their way into your psyche. If World of Warcraft came out 5 years ago I know damn well you would all be going to bed in WoW footy pajamas. But instead we pick them apart and whine about the tiniest little thing that seems to have been borrowed from another game or we think is watered down and not hardcore. Does that mean WoW is less good now? No it means you've been there done that bought the T-shirt. It's not the games that have changed, it's you my friends.
I for one love this crazy community even with all its bad points--griefers ( a term unheard of a few years go) farmers and flamers to name but a few. And I'm happy as a pig in slop to play EQ2 or SWG or WoW even with their faults and bugs. You have to find something that you like and keep that childish excitement inside you and forgoe all the flaming and dissing and focusing on the bad, not in an oblivious fashion but a happy fashion: In a way that shows you know how damn lucky you are to be living in a free society and able to squander your free time on "meaningless" video games without being beheaded or beaten because you're the wrong religion.
In the words written by S.E. Hinton
Stay gold, pony boy
I'd agree with all of this, but also, I feel that just like anything, gaming can become an addiction of sorts. I recognize it in myself, as well as other people that I know.
Gaming, especially MMOGs, is an easy escape from the world, a way to go to a place where you feel good all the time and don't have to worry about anything.
Some people become addicted to that feeling. Over time, their "fix" doesn't do it for them like it used to, so they try to find other ways to get their fix, from the same type of thing. Like a wino who tries white wine after drinking red for years.
After awhile, you get to the point where the thing you're using to get your fix doesn't work for you anymore, and really the only thing to do is to add new activities to your life. With summer coming along, now is a great time to do it.
I had this happen to me like 2 years ago after playing DAOC for 1.5 years, and I quit gaming altogether for probably 3 months. When I came back to gaming, it was fresh and new feeling again, even with games that before I would have said were no fun. It kind of gave me an opportunity to recharge my gaming batteries.
And now, like many other people, it's happening to me again. I bought a gameboy and some games, and enjoyed them for a few days, but now I'm getting that same kind of stale feeling, like I wish I could really enjoy them, but I just can't. But that doesn't mean that I won't visit a gaming message board or go to review sites to try to find that one magical "fix".
So, now's the time for me to take up biking.. or maybe something else. Gaming's not an option right now. After 22 years of it, it's like my brain's overloaded on it.
I don't know if this fits with anyone else, but I'm sure it's what's happening with me right now.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
I tend to think is less of this "addiction and fix" problem and more of the newness of it. When MMOGs came out they were a new thing and everyone who played it was being exposed to something new. Now time has passed and the concept is no longer new. The graphics are better. The stories are better. But its not new. Now if you take these same qualities and put them into a CRPG, not an online one, you get a good game. Great Graphics and Great Story make a great game.. single player wise. The game companies are following the logical evolution of video game sand making better graphics and better stories, some even adding better content, but it will never be new again.
For me the games are not as much fun because the of the community involvment in-game. I truely like a role playing experience but for the most part games are now just "grind and go." Do I think the immersive RP was there in the beginning? Nope. But it was NEW! It was a chance to play this game with a hundred thousand strangers. The RP was never there but while it was new I never noticed. Now its not new and I notice.
The servers are not empty. Just the low level areas. The populations feel like they a have been rising since the expansion pack. I'm sick and tired of people slamming AC2 who never even tried the game.