The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And yes they will have to invest 10 million dollars at least for this translation. Blindly
Without knowing if these traditionally anti-mmo markets are even good for it
Aahh, I love the smell of blind anti-BW/TOR ranting in the morning (yeah, it's that odd 'Apocalypse Now'-quoting time)
'anti-mmo market'?
Hmmm. To take a recent example: Rift.
Rift has
- 11 German servers
- 7 French servers
That is:
- German part of the EU servers: 27%
- German part of the total Rift population: 11%, 1 in 10 is a player on a German server
- French part of the EU servers: 17%
- French part of the total Rift population: 7%, 1 in 14 players is a player on a French server
Some might call that little, some might call it significant.
In any case, I'd hardly call that 'anti-MMO market'.
In the contrary, actually.
hilarious comparison .
im sure some German and French folks checked Star Wars movies also,and im pretty sure Lucas didnt make German and whatever versions with different actors a) because quality b) money. c) thousands of reasons.
Oh, its only a matter of time untill Lucas releases the re-re-re-re-re-release of dubbed Star Wars. Also removing all guns with walkie talkies.
And yes they will have to invest 10 million dollars at least for this translation. Blindly
Without knowing if these traditionally anti-mmo markets are even good for it
Aahh, I love the smell of blind anti-BW/TOR ranting in the morning (yeah, it's that odd 'Apocalypse Now'-quoting time)
'anti-mmo market'?
Hmmm. To take a recent example: Rift.
Rift has
- 11 German servers
- 7 French servers
That is:
- German part of the EU servers: 27%
- German part of the total Rift population: 11%, 1 in 9 is a player on a German server
- French part of the EU servers: 17%
- French part of the total Rift population: 7%, 1 in 14 players is a player on a French server
Some might call that little, some might call it significant.
In any case, I'd hardly call that 'anti-MMO market'.
In the contrary, actually.
hilarious comparison .
im sure some German and French folks checked Star Wars movies also,and im pretty sure Lucas didnt make German and whatever versions with different actors a) because quality b) money. c) thousands of reasons.
A useless comment.
We were talking about mmorpg's and the mmorpg market, and MMO companies of the past 10 years have clearly shown to take non-English market like the French and German MMO market seriously, even if you don't.
Movies, tv shows and games have been localised/dubbed for the German and French customer base since decades. Obviously, because it is beneficial.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
"In a way, their's is a silent movie and ours is the first talkie," he said of WoW. "By and large, theirs is not a voiced MMO. Ours is a fully voiced MMO in multiple languages."
They will translate all the Voice Overs in mulitple languages!!!???
So it's going to be in English, say french? german? Won't this cost A LOT?
Don't the gamers in France and German understand English?
I was always under the impression that since English is international language, many countries try and educate their population with English. Even in a 3rd rate country such as Pakistan, there are students in high school who are able to speak English.
Why would they translate it?
Becaues the have respect for other countries native languges and don't expect the world to just speak "american".
I don't think that was the point of the OP. As I understood it, he simply implied that the voice over in say 2 more languages will not pay off for the VERY hard work it requires to be done, in which I'd agree with him.
Well the developer probabaly knows more than you do about the market numbers that they are shooting for in each region and a planned business decision was probably made to translate the voices.
Someone somewhere quoted $10million to translate into a couple more languages, what a load of rubbish. Come back down to earth.
Also many, many games are translated (voiceover). Most games that come out of Ubisoft (Assassins Creed etc) are actually in French i believe (its a french studio based in Paris and Montreal, Canada) and thanks to them translating their work you dont need a french dictinary to kick some Renaissance butt in their games.
Finally to the OP - I laughed so hard when I read your post (I am english by the way - as in from England). English is not an "International Language", just because you speak it dont assume everyone else does, thats so self centred and ridiculous! And in any case, even if a large portion of the world does speak english, there are massive markets in the german speaking world (many european languages are Germanic by the way), the french speaking world and others. In fact, heres a bit of a geography lesson for you. The European Union has a population of 501million people (USA has 300 million) of all those people from the European Union only 60million speak English natively. When you go to France or Germany 90% of them dont speak or understand english, just as i dont understand what they say.
So by not translating to germanic and french languages, the developer looses out on an extra populaiton of approximately 400million people (more than the USA and Canada combined) to market the game to.
Why are you so bothered anyway. Its like you have a real disgust at the fact that they should dare to translate it!
Oh and I wouldnt call Pakistan a 3rd rate country you racist xenophobic idiot, they are a nuclear power after all.
Not sure if this is such a smart move becuase all it's gonna do is become a massive drain on their resources when it comes to making new content. Not only will it have to be fully voiced, which is already draining their money, but now it'll have to be in multiple languages. This could really hurt the regularity of content releases.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Not sure if this is such a smart move becuase all it's gonna do is become a massive drain on their resources when it comes to making new content. Not only will it have to be fully voiced, which is already draining their money, but now it'll have to be in multiple languages. This could really hurt the regularity of content releases.
This had not come to my mind. This is another good point. It will lead to significantly slower content updates no dout.
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
+ these Countrys have always afforded it aswell, to voice over the entire filmindustry and "force" gamestudios to make it in their language or the game won't sell in that country..
I'm from Sweden , but my father is German ...And I spent alot of time in Germany as a kid , and when you discuss this issue with them they look at you as you were stupid..And I keep telling them that it's impossible to Voice Over Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop to German language without missing almost all the points of the jokes.
Personally, I can't understand why anyone would want a story destroyed because of bad translations(impossible translations), but I guess they don't know any better, this was also the conclusion I got from beiing in Germany alot as a kid and teenager.
Ok guys, the tsunami of misinformation (pun intended) here is about to wash my sanity away.
First off, I'm from Germany, my father is german, my mother is german, my grandfather is german, I'm about as German as it gets, so let me tell you from an 'insider' perspective...
English is taught at school here, but most, and by most I mean (+80%) of the people here have mediocre english skills, at best. Why, because they don't need them. German-speaking countries (Austria, Switzerland, Germany) are and have been since the 1970s the strongest european media and entertainment market (cashwise); it's not some banana republic (cashwise).
Absolutely every bit of purchasable media entertainment is supplied in German. If you go to a store, everything, from the 70s Star Wars movies to the complete set of Two and a Half Men is dubbed in German; Actually, you can have a really hard time finding even the most popular stuff in original versions. Sure, on DVDs, you can switch languages, but stuff that is originally the english version, no sir.
Keeping this in mind, reason 1 they translate, people EXPECT an AAA game to be translated and to be translated well (there are lots of badly dubbed media products on the german market because if you want to sell, you translate)
and reason 2, people's english usually just isn't good enough for original versions.
When it comes to MMOs, there's usually a younger crowd playing these games, especially for comic-style SWTOR. So reason 3 is, 12-year olds english is bad. They lose a lot of money if they exclude this age group.
Reason 4 is educational level. Some, not many, but more than in a cross-cut of the whole german society, players coming from less educated social classes and lower educational levels, their english is even worse than the average german's. But they still buy, they still pay.
Games that appeared in english and offered no german speaking servers, like Vanguard, tanked even more in this country than they did internationally. Everquest 2 suffered very bad translations and always stayed behind expectations on the non-english speaking markets.
Again, the european, especially french and german speaking countries, market for MMO is not some sidenote, most games draw a major chunk of their revenue from this; Ignoring lingual limitations there and expecting people to hop on an undubbed game would be the hell of a bad move, profitwise.
If EA/Bioware are doing it then it makes sense for them! Is it so hard to grasp? I hate reading posts from haters who just come up with some random stuff, speculating on things which they clearly DON'T understand. 99% of you, have no idea what management and doing business means. Since when you all became marketing experts?
For people who have never studied geography and history, please go educate yourselves. The French are an extremely proud nation. And rightfully so, they were the first country in Europe. They don't want to play their games/see their movies in English. They want them in French? Is it so hard to understand? And France is a big market and they will translate it for them and several other countries.
It's all business. Every investment has a purpose. Do you guys think you know more than people who work in finance/marketing etc? I can tell you, you don't!
Originally posted by thark
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
"In a way, their's is a silent movie and ours is the first talkie," he said of WoW. "By and large, theirs is not a voiced MMO. Ours is a fully voiced MMO in multiple languages."
They will translate all the Voice Overs in mulitple languages!!!???
So it's going to be in English, say french? german? Won't this cost A LOT?
Don't the gamers in France and German understand English?
I was always under the impression that since English is international language, many countries try and educate their population with English. Even in a 3rd rate country such as Pakistan, there are students in high school who are able to speak English.
Why would they translate it?
Becaues the have respect for other countries native languges and don't expect the world to just speak "american".
It's not speaking 'American', it's speaking 'English'.
English, which consists of major parts of europe, is considered the world lanaguage of business and culture.
What a ridicilous waste of money that could have been invested elswhere.
LOL
Some heads are going to roll when this thing flops
Yeah because opening markets that may not speak the English language is a bad thing...
I dont think you gripe the ammount of work and investment needed for this translation.
If anything - if EA had any brains , they would release the game with english only subs (and text translations) see how the game fares (and especially in foreign language countries) - Than release voice patch 3-4 months after for countries that showed most interest.
This is how other smart buisnesses operate
Or just translate it into multiple languages because a huge budget allows for extra strings to be pulled without weighing production down in other development areas.
Neither of us know how well BW is budgeting their money besides petty assumptions so who are we to judge yet. As EA stated, 500,000 subs is a financial success.
Seeing as neither of us have the full picture, it is impossible to say whether bioware is making good financial decisions or not. I wouldn't be so quick to point out 'smart businesses' in reference against bioware, past experience shows that they have a majorly successful develpment practice.
What a ridicilous waste of money that could have been invested elswhere.
LOL
Some heads are going to roll when this thing flops
Yeah because opening markets that may not speak the English language is a bad thing...
I dont think you gripe the ammount of work and investment needed for this translation.
If anything - if EA had any brains , they would release the game with english only subs (and text translations) see how the game fares (and especially in foreign language countries) - Than release voice patch 3-4 months after for countries that showed most interest.
This is how other smart buisnesses operate
Do you realize they would have to test the subtitled versions and then test the whole thing ALL OVER AGAIN, this time with dubbing?
If EA/Bioware are doing it then it makes sense for them! Is it so hard to grasp? I hate reading posts from haters who just come up with some random stuff, speculating on things which they clearly DON'T understand. 99% of you, have no idea what management and doing business means. Since when you all became marketing experts?
For people who have never studied geography and history, please go educate yourselves. The French are an extremely proud nation. And rightfully so, they were the first country in Europe. They don't want to play their games/see their movies in English. They want them in French? Is it so hard to understand? And France is a big market and they will translate it for them and several other countries.
It's all business. Every investment has a purpose. Do you guys think you know more than people who work in finance/marketing etc? I can tell you, you don't!
Originally posted by thark
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise.
Why did you qoute me and then add text that I didnt write.." "
"There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise."
There are 3 countries ?
German and French are the only ones that keep dubbing their entertainment, and refuse to have it in any other way..YES they are large and rich countries, and therefor it would be a stupid move by Bioware to NOT make a French and German version, but that doesnt make it less stupid..
But I'm guessing, It's to late for them to realise that the films get better in the language it's made, you simply CAN'T dubb everything, I'm half German and has lived in both Germany and Sweden and I know how stupid it is, but I'm sure I woudn't feel this way If I lived my entire life in Germany(because I woudnt know anything else)..
In Sweden we have dubbed films/games for children, because at a certain age they haven't started to learn English yet..
In Sweden everyone also speaks rather good English, because it's simply the second language of choice, after that we can choose to learn French or German ..English is the global language of choice, It's not so hard to understand , and I think it's wrong to exclude an entire country of something this important just becauyse they claim to be "proud"
If EA/Bioware are doing it then it makes sense for them! Is it so hard to grasp? I hate reading posts from haters who just come up with some random stuff, speculating on things which they clearly DON'T understand. 99% of you, have no idea what management and doing business means. Since when you all became marketing experts?
For people who have never studied geography and history, please go educate yourselves. The French are an extremely proud nation. And rightfully so, they were the first country in Europe. They don't want to play their games/see their movies in English. They want them in French? Is it so hard to understand? And France is a big market and they will translate it for them and several other countries.
It's all business. Every investment has a purpose. Do you guys think you know more than people who work in finance/marketing etc? I can tell you, you don't!
Originally posted by thark
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise.
Why did you qoute me and then add text that I didnt write.." "
"There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise."
There are 3 countries ?
German and French are the only ones that keep dubbing their entertainment, and refuse to have it in any other way..YES they are large and rich countries, and therefor it would be a stupid move by Bioware to NOT make a French and German version, but that doesnt make it less stupid..
But I'm guessing, It's to late for them to realise that the films get better in the language it's made, you simply CAN'T dubb everything, I'm half German and has lived in both Germany and Sweden and I know how stupid it is, but I'm sure I woudn't feel this way If I lived my entire life in Germany(because I woudnt know anything else)..
In Sweden we have dubbed films/games for children, because at a certain age they haven't started to learn English yet..
In Sweden everyone also speaks rather good English, because it's simply the second language of choice, after that we can choose to learn French or German ..English is the global language of choice, It's not so hard to understand , and I think it's wrong to exclude an entire country of something this important just becauyse they claim to be "proud"
While post-producing 'Inglorious basterds' the US distributor decided to overdubb many scenes featuring christoph waltz (Hans Landa), because they thought english speakers wouldn't accept the movie if theres too much foreign language (namely french and german) in it.
Why do you think is that? Because people in the US and England are proud of their language and don't want to be humiliated by not understanding german or french or some bullshit like that?
No, it's just because people are used to their native tongue. If the markets in greece or iceland or whereever would be big enough (money- and populationwise) I'm 100% sure distributors would overdub their stuff and it would increase profit immensely.
That's not some elusive, ideologic 'proud peoples pride is entitled to have it their way'-blah blah; It's obviously (because a major media distributor doesn't care for anything else except cash, cash and cash again) more profitable. There are about 100 million german speakers in europe in some of the richest countries in the world and you, as a big media company, want their money. Period.
Any speculation beyond this is, imo, pathetic. Everyone knows that money is the only and final factor in decisions like these.
M
P:S: Oh, and btw, I use to play my games in the original versions (if the original version is english), and for the most part, any voice acting in them is horrible, in both languages. Sometimes the german versions are even better than the english ones because the US-distributor obviously lacked the money to engage real actors for a fair price while synchronizing english stuff into german has a long history here; And getting 'good' people for voice acting is a lot easier than in a english-speaking county.
Voice overs are going to be an important part of TOR. So, its a no brainer that Bioware / EA are taking into account other major spoken languages. It confirms TOR's very high production values. Probably this is aimed mostly towards the EU / Europe where German, Spanish and Russian are spoken by about 280.000.000 people!! This is simply a number way to high not to take into account.
Blizzard translated WoW into Spanish, German, Russian AND gave these people / customers the option to play on dedicated servers. Why? Because there was a great deal of them wanting to play the game in their native language.
People should really think a bit before replying BS on these boards.
Voice overs are going to be an important part of TOR. So, its a no brainer that Bioware / EA are taking into account other major spoken languages. It confirms TOR's very high production values. Probably this is aimed mostly for the EU / Europe where German, Spanish and Russian are spoken by about 280.000.000 people!! This is simply a number way to high not to take into account.
Blizzard translated WoW into Spanish, German, Russian AND gave these people / customers the option to play on dedicated servers. Why? Because there was a great deal of them wanting to play the game in their native language.
People should really think a bit before replying BS on these boards.
^^^ Agree 100% ^^^
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
If EA/Bioware are doing it then it makes sense for them! Is it so hard to grasp? I hate reading posts from haters who just come up with some random stuff, speculating on things which they clearly DON'T understand. 99% of you, have no idea what management and doing business means. Since when you all became marketing experts?
For people who have never studied geography and history, please go educate yourselves. The French are an extremely proud nation. And rightfully so, they were the first country in Europe. They don't want to play their games/see their movies in English. They want them in French? Is it so hard to understand? And France is a big market and they will translate it for them and several other countries.
It's all business. Every investment has a purpose. Do you guys think you know more than people who work in finance/marketing etc? I can tell you, you don't!
Originally posted by thark
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise.
Why did you qoute me and then add text that I didnt write.." "
"There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise."
There are 3 countries ?
German and French are the only ones that keep dubbing their entertainment, and refuse to have it in any other way..YES they are large and rich countries, and therefor it would be a stupid move by Bioware to NOT make a French and German version, but that doesnt make it less stupid..
But I'm guessing, It's to late for them to realise that the films get better in the language it's made, you simply CAN'T dubb everything, I'm half German and has lived in both Germany and Sweden and I know how stupid it is, but I'm sure I woudn't feel this way If I lived my entire life in Germany(because I woudnt know anything else)..
In Sweden we have dubbed films/games for children, because at a certain age they haven't started to learn English yet..
In Sweden everyone also speaks rather good English, because it's simply the second language of choice, after that we can choose to learn French or German ..English is the global language of choice, It's not so hard to understand , and I think it's wrong to exclude an entire country of something this important just becauyse they claim to be "proud"
While post-producing 'Inglorious basterds' the US distributor decided to overdubb many scenes featuring christoph waltz (Hans Landa), because they thought english speakers wouldn't accept the movie if theres too much foreign language (namely french and german) in it.
Why do you think is that? Because people in the US and England are proud of their language and don't want to be humiliated by not understanding german or french or some bullshit like that?
No, it's just because people are used to their native tongue. If the markets in greece or iceland or whereever would be big enough (money- and populationwise) I'm 100% sure distributors would overdub their stuff and it would increase profit immensely.
That's not some elusive, ideologic 'proud peoples pride is entitled to have it their way'-blah blah; It's obviously (because a major media distributor doesn't care for anything else except cash, cash and cash again) more profitable. There are about 100 million german speakers in europe in some of the richest countries in the world and you, as a big media company, want their money. Period.
Any speculation beyond this is, imo, pathetic. Everyone knows that money is the only and final factor in decisions like these.
M
P:S: Oh, and btw, I use to play my games in the original versions (if the original version is english), and for the most part, any voice acting in them is horrible, in both languages. Sometimes the german versions are even better than the english ones because the US-distributor obviously lacked the money to engage real actors for a fair price while synchronizing english stuff into german has a long history here; And getting 'good' people for voice acting is a lot easier than in a english-speaking county.
Look, I understand why !!.. Money , Yes I understand that very well thank you.
But I also understand that changes does not come over a day, These countries has had everything dubbed since ages back, and It's going to stay this way, until someone actually understands that "entertainment gets worse" if it's dubbed from the original language.
The small percent of movies we dubb from English(American) to Swedish(Disney and Pixar Movies) is absolutly horrible if you actually take your time and listen to both versions ..In the Cinema in Sweden they nowadays shows both versions for those that actually understands that no film can actually be dubbed and make justice for it's original ..
100 % sure !! that they will overdub if they had the money !!! Hmm..Well If they did this in Sweden , people would just stop looking at films..The only category that would enjoy this is either very old or very very young.
Well and for your last example, well I do not know what game that is, but games (until recently a few years back) has not a huge history of putting huge actors or professional voice actors in their games, because it hasn't been a main or large selling focus..
Thats not saying that the German/French dubbers are bad , as you say they have a large history in doing these voice overs, it just doesn't fit well, It's impossible to translate certain things, It's just as simple as that
But today the market for games has in many ways captured a much bigger audience, and hence they also use big hollywood actors as a selling point.
Yes reading and speech have different rates of understanding. I know of people who learn English in schools and yet cannot watch American television because they cannot understand it in its spoken form. People need to adjust to the slang and speed of speech.
Yes they are spending a lot probably but think about what this means for the playerbase in those countries .That a game company is actually catering to their language which is rare. A lot of time it is done textwise in their language and the dialogue left in the original form. I hate dubbed stuff as far as possible I use subtitles for animes and foreign movies dubbed movies make my teeth ache.
Pakistan btw was part of India before the split which was part of the British Empire. Coming from a country formally from that Empire most of us speak English fluently . That is why Pakistanis speak English or study it.
Comments
@Gman3: Thanks
And one correction, that should be '1 in 9 players is a player on a German server'
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
starwars is in german, french spanish and italian as far as I know.
Not a smart move imo.
It would be better to have English only voice acting with international subtitles first off at launch.
Then as their market increases, they can add voices later on for the languages they deem popular.
Not even WoW:Europe was launched at the same time as regular WoW.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Oh, its only a matter of time untill Lucas releases the re-re-re-re-re-release of dubbed Star Wars. Also removing all guns with walkie talkies.
A useless comment.
We were talking about mmorpg's and the mmorpg market, and MMO companies of the past 10 years have clearly shown to take non-English market like the French and German MMO market seriously, even if you don't.
Movies, tv shows and games have been localised/dubbed for the German and French customer base since decades. Obviously, because it is beneficial.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well the developer probabaly knows more than you do about the market numbers that they are shooting for in each region and a planned business decision was probably made to translate the voices.
Someone somewhere quoted $10million to translate into a couple more languages, what a load of rubbish. Come back down to earth.
Also many, many games are translated (voiceover). Most games that come out of Ubisoft (Assassins Creed etc) are actually in French i believe (its a french studio based in Paris and Montreal, Canada) and thanks to them translating their work you dont need a french dictinary to kick some Renaissance butt in their games.
Finally to the OP - I laughed so hard when I read your post (I am english by the way - as in from England). English is not an "International Language", just because you speak it dont assume everyone else does, thats so self centred and ridiculous! And in any case, even if a large portion of the world does speak english, there are massive markets in the german speaking world (many european languages are Germanic by the way), the french speaking world and others. In fact, heres a bit of a geography lesson for you. The European Union has a population of 501million people (USA has 300 million) of all those people from the European Union only 60million speak English natively. When you go to France or Germany 90% of them dont speak or understand english, just as i dont understand what they say.
So by not translating to germanic and french languages, the developer looses out on an extra populaiton of approximately 400million people (more than the USA and Canada combined) to market the game to.
Why are you so bothered anyway. Its like you have a real disgust at the fact that they should dare to translate it!
Oh and I wouldnt call Pakistan a 3rd rate country you racist xenophobic idiot, they are a nuclear power after all.
Thanks for your comment Matt.
Not sure if this is such a smart move becuase all it's gonna do is become a massive drain on their resources when it comes to making new content. Not only will it have to be fully voiced, which is already draining their money, but now it'll have to be in multiple languages. This could really hurt the regularity of content releases.
This had not come to my mind. This is another good point. It will lead to significantly slower content updates no dout.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
To sell games in Germany and France you have to make the game in their native language..
They also dubb every film on TV and Cinema
But it's bullshit !!!
Because Germans and French can read and speak English(atleast this generation), it's part of what they have to learn at school, but they don't want to , because they have been spoonfed with this attitude for ages, that their language is somehow better or just as big as English.
+ these Countrys have always afforded it aswell, to voice over the entire filmindustry and "force" gamestudios to make it in their language or the game won't sell in that country..
I'm from Sweden , but my father is German ...And I spent alot of time in Germany as a kid , and when you discuss this issue with them they look at you as you were stupid..And I keep telling them that it's impossible to Voice Over Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop to German language without missing almost all the points of the jokes.
Personally, I can't understand why anyone would want a story destroyed because of bad translations(impossible translations), but I guess they don't know any better, this was also the conclusion I got from beiing in Germany alot as a kid and teenager.
/junker
Ok guys, the tsunami of misinformation (pun intended) here is about to wash my sanity away.
First off, I'm from Germany, my father is german, my mother is german, my grandfather is german, I'm about as German as it gets, so let me tell you from an 'insider' perspective...
English is taught at school here, but most, and by most I mean (+80%) of the people here have mediocre english skills, at best. Why, because they don't need them. German-speaking countries (Austria, Switzerland, Germany) are and have been since the 1970s the strongest european media and entertainment market (cashwise); it's not some banana republic (cashwise).
Absolutely every bit of purchasable media entertainment is supplied in German. If you go to a store, everything, from the 70s Star Wars movies to the complete set of Two and a Half Men is dubbed in German; Actually, you can have a really hard time finding even the most popular stuff in original versions. Sure, on DVDs, you can switch languages, but stuff that is originally the english version, no sir.
Keeping this in mind, reason 1 they translate, people EXPECT an AAA game to be translated and to be translated well (there are lots of badly dubbed media products on the german market because if you want to sell, you translate)
and reason 2, people's english usually just isn't good enough for original versions.
When it comes to MMOs, there's usually a younger crowd playing these games, especially for comic-style SWTOR. So reason 3 is, 12-year olds english is bad. They lose a lot of money if they exclude this age group.
Reason 4 is educational level. Some, not many, but more than in a cross-cut of the whole german society, players coming from less educated social classes and lower educational levels, their english is even worse than the average german's. But they still buy, they still pay.
Games that appeared in english and offered no german speaking servers, like Vanguard, tanked even more in this country than they did internationally. Everquest 2 suffered very bad translations and always stayed behind expectations on the non-english speaking markets.
Again, the european, especially french and german speaking countries, market for MMO is not some sidenote, most games draw a major chunk of their revenue from this; Ignoring lingual limitations there and expecting people to hop on an undubbed game would be the hell of a bad move, profitwise.
M
If EA/Bioware are doing it then it makes sense for them! Is it so hard to grasp? I hate reading posts from haters who just come up with some random stuff, speculating on things which they clearly DON'T understand. 99% of you, have no idea what management and doing business means. Since when you all became marketing experts?
For people who have never studied geography and history, please go educate yourselves. The French are an extremely proud nation. And rightfully so, they were the first country in Europe. They don't want to play their games/see their movies in English. They want them in French? Is it so hard to understand? And France is a big market and they will translate it for them and several other countries.
It's all business. Every investment has a purpose. Do you guys think you know more than people who work in finance/marketing etc? I can tell you, you don't!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's not speaking 'American', it's speaking 'English'.
English, which consists of major parts of europe, is considered the world lanaguage of business and culture.
Or just translate it into multiple languages because a huge budget allows for extra strings to be pulled without weighing production down in other development areas.
Neither of us know how well BW is budgeting their money besides petty assumptions so who are we to judge yet. As EA stated, 500,000 subs is a financial success.
Seeing as neither of us have the full picture, it is impossible to say whether bioware is making good financial decisions or not. I wouldn't be so quick to point out 'smart businesses' in reference against bioware, past experience shows that they have a majorly successful develpment practice.
Do you realize they would have to test the subtitled versions and then test the whole thing ALL OVER AGAIN, this time with dubbing?
Great idea, lol
Why did you qoute me and then add text that I didnt write.." "
"There are three markets in Europe which countries always try to capture - France, Germany and UK. Other countries in Europe are either not so big, or not faring so well economically-wise."
There are 3 countries ?
German and French are the only ones that keep dubbing their entertainment, and refuse to have it in any other way..YES they are large and rich countries, and therefor it would be a stupid move by Bioware to NOT make a French and German version, but that doesnt make it less stupid..
But I'm guessing, It's to late for them to realise that the films get better in the language it's made, you simply CAN'T dubb everything, I'm half German and has lived in both Germany and Sweden and I know how stupid it is, but I'm sure I woudn't feel this way If I lived my entire life in Germany(because I woudnt know anything else)..
In Sweden we have dubbed films/games for children, because at a certain age they haven't started to learn English yet..
In Sweden everyone also speaks rather good English, because it's simply the second language of choice, after that we can choose to learn French or German ..English is the global language of choice, It's not so hard to understand , and I think it's wrong to exclude an entire country of something this important just becauyse they claim to be "proud"
While post-producing 'Inglorious basterds' the US distributor decided to overdubb many scenes featuring christoph waltz (Hans Landa), because they thought english speakers wouldn't accept the movie if theres too much foreign language (namely french and german) in it.
Why do you think is that? Because people in the US and England are proud of their language and don't want to be humiliated by not understanding german or french or some bullshit like that?
No, it's just because people are used to their native tongue. If the markets in greece or iceland or whereever would be big enough (money- and populationwise) I'm 100% sure distributors would overdub their stuff and it would increase profit immensely.
That's not some elusive, ideologic 'proud peoples pride is entitled to have it their way'-blah blah; It's obviously (because a major media distributor doesn't care for anything else except cash, cash and cash again) more profitable. There are about 100 million german speakers in europe in some of the richest countries in the world and you, as a big media company, want their money. Period.
Any speculation beyond this is, imo, pathetic. Everyone knows that money is the only and final factor in decisions like these.
M
P:S: Oh, and btw, I use to play my games in the original versions (if the original version is english), and for the most part, any voice acting in them is horrible, in both languages. Sometimes the german versions are even better than the english ones because the US-distributor obviously lacked the money to engage real actors for a fair price while synchronizing english stuff into german has a long history here; And getting 'good' people for voice acting is a lot easier than in a english-speaking county.
Voice overs are going to be an important part of TOR. So, its a no brainer that Bioware / EA are taking into account other major spoken languages. It confirms TOR's very high production values. Probably this is aimed mostly towards the EU / Europe where German, Spanish and Russian are spoken by about 280.000.000 people!! This is simply a number way to high not to take into account.
Blizzard translated WoW into Spanish, German, Russian AND gave these people / customers the option to play on dedicated servers. Why? Because there was a great deal of them wanting to play the game in their native language.
People should really think a bit before replying BS on these boards.
^^^ Agree 100% ^^^
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Look, I understand why !!.. Money , Yes I understand that very well thank you.
But I also understand that changes does not come over a day, These countries has had everything dubbed since ages back, and It's going to stay this way, until someone actually understands that "entertainment gets worse" if it's dubbed from the original language.
The small percent of movies we dubb from English(American) to Swedish(Disney and Pixar Movies) is absolutly horrible if you actually take your time and listen to both versions ..In the Cinema in Sweden they nowadays shows both versions for those that actually understands that no film can actually be dubbed and make justice for it's original ..
100 % sure !! that they will overdub if they had the money !!! Hmm..Well If they did this in Sweden , people would just stop looking at films..The only category that would enjoy this is either very old or very very young.
Well and for your last example, well I do not know what game that is, but games (until recently a few years back) has not a huge history of putting huge actors or professional voice actors in their games, because it hasn't been a main or large selling focus..
Thats not saying that the German/French dubbers are bad , as you say they have a large history in doing these voice overs, it just doesn't fit well, It's impossible to translate certain things, It's just as simple as that
But today the market for games has in many ways captured a much bigger audience, and hence they also use big hollywood actors as a selling point.
Yes reading and speech have different rates of understanding. I know of people who learn English in schools and yet cannot watch American television because they cannot understand it in its spoken form. People need to adjust to the slang and speed of speech.
Yes they are spending a lot probably but think about what this means for the playerbase in those countries .That a game company is actually catering to their language which is rare. A lot of time it is done textwise in their language and the dialogue left in the original form. I hate dubbed stuff as far as possible I use subtitles for animes and foreign movies dubbed movies make my teeth ache.
Pakistan btw was part of India before the split which was part of the British Empire. Coming from a country formally from that Empire most of us speak English fluently . That is why Pakistanis speak English or study it.