Unfortunately no, outside of the failed Roma Victor I can't think of too many MMO's who've taken the "very low" fantasy road.
LotRO tried to go down this path, and look how many people complained about the lack of a true mage. (and how many people complained that what was provided was excessive.
I disagree with those who say we need magic, magic weapons and the like, game mechanics could be coded to allow different weapons to be weilded and react differently. (morningstars, daggers, longswords, longbows, shortbows, pikes, spears etc)
As for healing, let people rest and take potions after the fight, that's a little realistic without stretching things to far. Sure it means the health you go into a fight is all you get, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
But of course in this no-magic world, you'd have to figure out a way to not justify permadeath.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I don't really see why a game "has to" have magic. Or gear grind. Make it so that "good" gear is attainable but let it detiorate. The game could be about actually dealing with issues of the time period (as another poster mentioned).
There is no magic in Rome or Medieval total war. Granted it's a different type of game but the setting has no magic.
The thing is that without magic you can't use the holy triad magic and will actually be forced to think out a new system.
I agree, we need a few historical MMOs with new and fun combat systems. It really isn't that hard and it have worked in historical single player games since a long time.
As for gear grind, many P&P games have little or none. I played an entire Warhammer fantasy RPG campaign with my starter gear and it sin't the only game like that. You want skills and attributes first.
I rather meet someone who never hold a sword before with mastercrafted gear than a grizzly veteran with an old rusty sword IRL, that thing is sure.
There are so many other setting MMOs could have but fantasy with a few Sci-fi and pirate games is rather pathetic.
A Non-Fantasy Medieval Simulation would be incredibly boring.
i have to agree.
just look at a game like MO where melee combat is as close to reality as possible, and its pretty much swing right/swing left/stab/block left/block right.......that's it.
just slashing back and forth gets pretty boring without absolutely no healing or any sort of different play style. some magic is required just to brake the monotony.
i'd like to add that MO's magic system is very very limited. it only has a couple of offencive spells, a couple of heals and 1 buff, 1 debuff. wile you can rez with the proper skills it's almost impossible to do wile in combat.
what you describe is far from being realistic. in general people dont have a clue about real sword fighting and other types of melee. standard strikes ala hack n slash is just noob-sh1t. there are so many moves with counters and countercounters, levers, feints, footwork and whatnot. spearfighting is different from sword from sword+shield from longaxe from axe+shield from 2handed sword from warhammer etc etc. there is far enough stuff to build great combat mechanics with scissors-paper-rock elements.
what probably will not work is a system based on a click-to-strike approach (like mortal online), since melee is far too fast and complex to be handled via WASD+2 mouse buttons, so there needs to be some sort of abstraction.
also what all games totally ignore is the effectiveness of armor. if there is a guy totally glad in plate you will not hurt him with a heavy swing of your two-handed sword, maybe cause some blunt damage but not kill him. you need to go for the weak spots or bring him down to the ground and kill him with your dagger. or indeed use maces etc. so this type of opponent would require more skill to be brought down, but he also has disadvantages, like a vastly limited vision and less maneuverability than a less armored fighter.
there is enough stuff to build a combat system based on medieval combat rules. it just takes some imagination. i am convinced of this. and i didn't even start considering infantry/cavalry/archer playstyles or massive battles with formations and tactics.
also i dont see the point of the "interesting-ness" of common magic-based systems anymore (after a zillion games like this) where one just presses a button and a spell is cast that does some damage. or a pet summoned. THIS is boring!
also for enemies: ok 90% of them would be humans, but the fascination for fighting pig-people, bear-people, owl-people, horse-people, bull-people, snake-people, rat-people, etc etc has left me years ago. in the end it's just another model a shallow background story that gives legitimation to kill these guys and no difference from there, they do an animation and apply damage without significant variance. in a medieval game the diversity would come from different factions (bandits, vikings, saracens, mongols, ...) that have different fighting styles. also animals would be an optiuon, allthough these should be handled much different. instead of fighting a big boar with platemail and sword you would use a spear, bows, crossbows, maybe traps and nets. so creature-fighting != man-fighting. it could be quite it's own sort of minigame (hunting, duh).
I agree that a medieval game with the common pointy-clicky ability system or a plain hack-n-slash-twitch mechanic where you start killing rats for the local catholic priest would probably be not appealing to most people. but i think the market is big enough that a sufficient niche is there that has people which would like just this kind of setting.
and yes this type of game would also need a focus on a player-driven economy, settling, building villages, towns and fortifications and the infrastructure to fuel the war machinery.
And if not, why not? Something along the lines of Darkfall minus the goblins, magic and portal. Or DAOC without magic. I really cant stand magic and goblins and fantasy anymore, and I really just want to hack and slash, ride a horse and lance someone, craft a sword without +10 to fate, etc etc etc. Why does it seem that no one makes a realistic middle ages game thats playable?
Because it wouldn't be playable.
99% of the population in the middle ages never hacked and slashed anyone, never rode a horse, never lanced someone and never crafted a sword. Most of them spent their life as farmer and never travelled further away from their birth place than 10 kilometres.
Thus you cannot have a realistic, playable middle ages game, it's either realistic or playable.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
And if not, why not? Something along the lines of Darkfall minus the goblins, magic and portal. Or DAOC without magic. I really cant stand magic and goblins and fantasy anymore, and I really just want to hack and slash, ride a horse and lance someone, craft a sword without +10 to fate, etc etc etc. Why does it seem that no one makes a realistic middle ages game thats playable?
Because it wouldn't be playable.
99% of the population in the middle ages never hacked and slashed anyone, never rode a horse, never lanced someone and never crafted a sword. Most of them spent their life as farmer and never travelled further away from their birth place than 10 kilometres.
Thus you cannot have a realistic, playable middle ages game, it's either realistic or playable.
Perhaps youve heard of NPCs? Maybe they could play the boring parts? And then you could play one of the few hundred thousand people that fought in armies, or were knights or kings, bandits or theives?
Comments
Unfortunately no, outside of the failed Roma Victor I can't think of too many MMO's who've taken the "very low" fantasy road.
LotRO tried to go down this path, and look how many people complained about the lack of a true mage. (and how many people complained that what was provided was excessive.
I disagree with those who say we need magic, magic weapons and the like, game mechanics could be coded to allow different weapons to be weilded and react differently. (morningstars, daggers, longswords, longbows, shortbows, pikes, spears etc)
As for healing, let people rest and take potions after the fight, that's a little realistic without stretching things to far. Sure it means the health you go into a fight is all you get, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
But of course in this no-magic world, you'd have to figure out a way to not justify permadeath.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
May be to you, but not the milions of other players.
Plus, you can always go play FPS if you don't like fantasy MMOs.
solitaire online.
The thing is that without magic you can't use the holy triad magic and will actually be forced to think out a new system.
I agree, we need a few historical MMOs with new and fun combat systems. It really isn't that hard and it have worked in historical single player games since a long time.
As for gear grind, many P&P games have little or none. I played an entire Warhammer fantasy RPG campaign with my starter gear and it sin't the only game like that. You want skills and attributes first.
I rather meet someone who never hold a sword before with mastercrafted gear than a grizzly veteran with an old rusty sword IRL, that thing is sure.
There are so many other setting MMOs could have but fantasy with a few Sci-fi and pirate games is rather pathetic.
what you describe is far from being realistic. in general people dont have a clue about real sword fighting and other types of melee. standard strikes ala hack n slash is just noob-sh1t. there are so many moves with counters and countercounters, levers, feints, footwork and whatnot. spearfighting is different from sword from sword+shield from longaxe from axe+shield from 2handed sword from warhammer etc etc. there is far enough stuff to build great combat mechanics with scissors-paper-rock elements.
what probably will not work is a system based on a click-to-strike approach (like mortal online), since melee is far too fast and complex to be handled via WASD+2 mouse buttons, so there needs to be some sort of abstraction.
also what all games totally ignore is the effectiveness of armor. if there is a guy totally glad in plate you will not hurt him with a heavy swing of your two-handed sword, maybe cause some blunt damage but not kill him. you need to go for the weak spots or bring him down to the ground and kill him with your dagger. or indeed use maces etc. so this type of opponent would require more skill to be brought down, but he also has disadvantages, like a vastly limited vision and less maneuverability than a less armored fighter.
there is enough stuff to build a combat system based on medieval combat rules. it just takes some imagination. i am convinced of this. and i didn't even start considering infantry/cavalry/archer playstyles or massive battles with formations and tactics.
also i dont see the point of the "interesting-ness" of common magic-based systems anymore (after a zillion games like this) where one just presses a button and a spell is cast that does some damage. or a pet summoned. THIS is boring!
also for enemies: ok 90% of them would be humans, but the fascination for fighting pig-people, bear-people, owl-people, horse-people, bull-people, snake-people, rat-people, etc etc has left me years ago. in the end it's just another model a shallow background story that gives legitimation to kill these guys and no difference from there, they do an animation and apply damage without significant variance. in a medieval game the diversity would come from different factions (bandits, vikings, saracens, mongols, ...) that have different fighting styles. also animals would be an optiuon, allthough these should be handled much different. instead of fighting a big boar with platemail and sword you would use a spear, bows, crossbows, maybe traps and nets. so creature-fighting != man-fighting. it could be quite it's own sort of minigame (hunting, duh).
I agree that a medieval game with the common pointy-clicky ability system or a plain hack-n-slash-twitch mechanic where you start killing rats for the local catholic priest would probably be not appealing to most people. but i think the market is big enough that a sufficient niche is there that has people which would like just this kind of setting.
and yes this type of game would also need a focus on a player-driven economy, settling, building villages, towns and fortifications and the infrastructure to fuel the war machinery.
Well said. But I guess we're stuck with wow clones for now.
I looked at the game list and it lists 6 "historical" games in the last 10 years. That is sad.
Because it wouldn't be playable.
99% of the population in the middle ages never hacked and slashed anyone, never rode a horse, never lanced someone and never crafted a sword. Most of them spent their life as farmer and never travelled further away from their birth place than 10 kilometres.
Thus you cannot have a realistic, playable middle ages game, it's either realistic or playable.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Midgard from Funcom was supposed to be like that. Basically you lived the life of a villager in Viking times. It got cancelled.
Perhaps youve heard of NPCs? Maybe they could play the boring parts? And then you could play one of the few hundred thousand people that fought in armies, or were knights or kings, bandits or theives?