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I Hate "F2P" Games
Morghulis
Member Posts: 43
Because they're never, ever "free" in any way shape or form. It's inevitable that the game will be impossible to play after a certain point without cash or that you'll need cash shops items to be able to compete in P2P or any of this sort of stuff.
Ever major "F2P" game of the past few years has done this and then made their cash shop items ridiculously expensive (hi Allods Online, with your £1,000 drop in - AT THE VERY LEAST - to get started in basic end game grouping) because they think they're clever.
How do you feel towards "F2P" models?
Comments
Allods could have been the perfect example why people should at least review the F2P games. But then gpotato trashed it and made it the perfect example of why people should avoid the F2P games.
There are decent enough F2P games out there, I think. Vindictus, at least.
Gamer by nature,
poet by heart.
If you hate F2P games just don't play them and let others who do enjoy them. What's the point in making threads such as these?
I like how they're 'f2p' games, and they're 'free'.
It's like every couple days, somebody feels the need to come into the MMORPG.com forums and yell "Hey everybody! I just found out that F2P games aren't actually free! Their name is a FRAUD!'
It's kind of weird.
I kind of feel like somebody is coming in and screaming 'Soylent Green is made out of people!', and we all look at our Soylent Green burgers, wrapped in packaging that says 'Now with 90% more human flesh' along with a picture of a dead person, and say 'Uhm... yeah? Little late to the party there.'
Don't worry, nobody is going to be fooled and horribly confused if you say F2P without quotes, it's just a name.
Intriguing! So, exactly how have all the F2P games that I've ever played always, always been free for me? Am I somehow special? Do I have magic powers?
That's one way of looking at it, but consider this. Every MMO—barring a few exceptions—inevitably has a certain point at which it's impossible to keep progressing. It's called the end of the game... the point at which there's no way to further add to your character's power, no better gear to obtain or AA abilities to unlock. What happens when you reach the end of the game in a P2P game, and there's no content patch on the way? Do you tear your hair out, curse the gods, and swear vengeance upon the game's malicious creators? No, you either spend your time socializing and dicking around if you enjoy the game's world and community, or you shrug your shoulders and say "good game" and quit. You stop playing the game. This doesn't have to be a source of rage.
Same deal in an F2P. You reach the point at which it is either "impossible" or prohibitively difficult to advance further. You're at what you could call the end of the free game. So either socialize and faff about or just stop playing. Either way, you were entertained for a good while and it was free. How can anyone complain about that?
Free-to-play games are free to download and log in. People who never spend any money on them are little more than NPCs for the people who do. I'd like to say that they were NPCs with better than average AI, but it turns out that you can't even count on Natural Intelligenct in a natural being.
If that upsets you, DO NOT PLAY! RUN AWAY! RUN! FASTER!
(EDIT: I just realized that calling people NPCs is likely to offend them, but I meant it pretty literally. The games are there to make money, and so they give advantages of one sort or another to people who pay (even if it is only having an awesome outfit that says, "I am not too cheap to spend money on a game I enjoy"). There's not too much incentive for the company to make things "fair" for people who aren't supporting the game, but those people do provide a service to the paying players-- they fill out the world with people to talk to, group with, and kill. But I don't take back the second part; there are a lot of really stupid people out there, paying or not.)
If I see a game has a cash shop, that's the end of my interest. I don't want to see any screen shots, hear anything about the game mechanics, etc.
I don't enjoy cash shop games, so I don't play them. It's pretty much as if they don't exist.
I see "Wow, look at this cool MMO coming out!"
I get interested, see it's a cash shop game, and then forget all about it and never look at it again.
If people like playing cash shop games, that's fine. It's their money, they are free to spend however they wish, and if they have fun playing cash shop games, good for them.
The wierd thing is how cash shop game players don't have the same attitude.
They have to come up with reasons why people that don't like cash shop games are inferior to themselves.
Oh, you dojn't like it cause you're jealous of what other people have in the game, oh, you have no discipline, and you can't just pretend there's no cash shop, oh you're a bad person because you don't like the kind of game I like!!!!!
I really don't get this attitude.
You left out the most important function of players in cash shop games that don't spend money. They are the "peasants".
I think everyone has forgotten that the primary purpose of an MMO is to generate profit. I'm not certain why some have categorized the act of generating that profit into acceptable and unacceptable forms. In the end, it really is comparing apples to oranges - but everyone's still eating a fruit.
I've been playing F2P MMOs since 2004, there's only 2 MMOs where I've actually spent money, and I only spent $120. Aside from that, I've played pretty much every other F2P title without ever spending a single penny. I only play F2P Titles where I believe the Cash Shop to be "fair" and optional, in other words, it contains mostly cosmetic or minor bonuses (XP, Potions, etc) that aren't "Game Changing". Only exception would be Dungeon Fighter's Avatars that do give a significant bonus, but they can be bought with in-game currency from other players so it balances things out.
If the Cash Shop gives game changing advantages (Runes of Magic, Allods, etc) I just don't bother with those games. That's why F2Ps are great. If I don't like it, it doesn't matter I can just move to another MMORPG. I don't have to buy a boxed game for $50-60, nor pay a sub $15/month for a game I'm not even sure that I will like. I'd rather support a game I really enjoy by spending money in the Cash Shop, then take a blind guess with Boxed games. Just to be sure there's no misunderstanding, I don't hate P2Ps, I don't mind paying for a P2P title so long as I like what the game has to offer, but I do hate having to buy a boxed game (or online version) before I can actually try the game, it's without a doubt my biggest pet peeve with the business model. Too many P2P MMOs rely on the boxed game sales in the first week/month to rack up the money, deliver a horrible game, and then forget about the game (Warhammer, Star Trek, or Champion anyone?).
The game subscription model use needs to be shared. I think Runescape did it first, and I've seen some other games do it, like Champion's Online. They do have the free-to-play, and they have a cash shop filled with extras (although, not Runescape). But if you really, really want all those extras (or in the case of CO, if you really have the need to customize your own archetypes) then you can get a monthly subscription and pay for the game that way.
More choice for the people = Larger Subscriber Base
I like cash shop games (<--- What they should be called.) to a point, although I've never paid for anything in it before. And I like monthly subscription games (<--- Also what they should be called.), although I still haven't stayed with one.
The way I see it. If the game has a subscription, then the company is pushed to make the game good enough so people will stay. And with a cash shop game, they also have to sell things that people will want, whether that be storylines, classes, races, weapons, armor, tools, etc.
If it were my choice, I would make them all with the choice. You can either buy what you want from a cash shop, or you can pay a monthly subscription. Who ever said one way is the right way? It's easier, and more beneficial for all, if we just utilized both.
Ignorance may be Bliss, but Knowledge is Power
League of legends is a good F2p game, you can play the game completely free with a bit of extra grind elementl the only thing you pay for are skins and new characters but the characters can be bought with in game currency. A better version of dota essentially, much better.
The whole complaint about F2P games is rather silly when you think about it from a marketting point of view.
F2P games in general have a stigma of being "Bad Gameplay", and that you get what you pay for; 'Nothing' or 'Everything'.
Personally I despise having to pay cash to stay competative in a game, but I do get excited when I see games like Firefall which offer competative gameplay on a F2P model with cosmetic items only for sale in their item mall.
One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching.
F2P is a better buisness model then P2P by far though due to people's misconceptions and a few bad examples that exist, they go by the ignorant assumption that all F2Ps are the same. Worst part is the fact that people are willing to buy P2P game after P2P game to just get bored with it and complain that it's too much like a previous game but will continue to say it's a better model when it's already been proven that F2P is better for both company and consumer.
Err...
Please point me to a major F2P game that doesn't offer game changing items in it's item mall.
I like how people just try to avoid the point.
WOW! Man, you are so witty with these retorts! It's not like you've attempted to completely dodge the point of the thread in order to push your opinion!
Because, ultimately, MMOs are an investment of time to get to the point where the game is fun to play. In F2P MMOs, you can never reach the point where the game is fun to play due to the fact that the game forces you to pay cash.
Ultimately: My point is that F2P games are an attempt to rip off players. It's like DLC. DLC is overpriced compared to the amount of content / time and effort it takes for the company to put it out. This is why it's so stupidly overused in modern gaming. $4 for horse armour that took a few artists an hour or two to make then 20 minutes to put in game? ker-ching.
This is how the F2P model works. They shroud the amount of cash required for a purchase in various layers in order to hide it's true value (hence why you buy "tokens" and then buy the item now, it's more likely to generate a purchase) and ultimately overcharge for the content.
Look at Allods Online for the perfect example: It will cost upwards of $60k to get "top" level runes. $60,000. Just think about that. That'd be enough to buy EVERY game that came out for about 6 years. Every single one. But, of course, you buy the starter runes for $5. Then you have to combine two starter runes (with a chance of failure, mind) for a total of $10. Then you combine those for a total of $20. Etc etc. This is for every piece of gear.
Isn't that game still in Beta and is a Nexon game? Yeah, give it time.
No, it's been released for quite sometime but it is a nexon game which is why the cash shop prices suck. Either way, the items are not game breaking and anything you would want from it can be bought with in game cash from other players.
I believe Avatars (Costumes) and Platinum Tokens cannot be sold to other players. The 3rd type of Token can though.
---
Dungeon Fighter doesn't offer game breaking items either. Avatars can be sold to players using in-game currency. Same goes for upcoming title from Nexon, "Dragon Nest", or Red5's FireFall.
I work on a F2P game. It's a piece of crap. I'm amazed at the people that play it. I'm even more amazed at the very intelligent and skilled players that play it. But to each their own - some games just seem very interesting and fun to certain people. I won't provide the name of the game but I will say that less then 2% of the actual player base has spent any money..
So 97%-98% are just looking for something free and usually complain about the spenders or "casher noobs" as they like to say it, even though those "casher noobs" are actually the people that are keeping the game running.
In my experiences, I have only play one free to play game that I would consider a good game and that is League of Legends.
I don't want to play p2p games any more, in this economic environment it just doesn't make feasible sense.
But I don't want to give my personal details to an x korean game or company or a proxy of theirs where my account will be hacked every other day, so it leaves quite a chunk of f2p off the table based on the previously mentioned criteria. I am getting into DDO quite a bit, but I want a perpretual world developed in the west. I'm not hooked on LOTRO. I wish I was, but it hasn't clicked for me. Maybe it will one day but for now my search continues.
This is my perception of how things work:
F2P games are free for the casual, relatively uninvested gamers who like to have the option to go elsewhere, and come back if they want to, essentially at the drop of a hat. It's kind of a nice change sometimes.
F2P games are supported entirely by the extremely invested gamers who are prepared to spend large amounts of cash on in-game advantages. These gamers carry the more 'casual' gamers' shares of the game's running costs.
F2P games are under no obligation to place theoretically 'casual' players (who may have actually levelled to max) at the same echelon as their paying supporters. The paying gamers do, after all, need to receive some reward for their money. No reward = no supporters = no game. In that scenario, everyone loses.
It's entirely possible for the game company to place exploitive, unfair prices on cash shop items. It's also not their fault if their supporters are willing to pay those prices.
If the system offends you, might I suggest trying a different pay scheme? P2P can add up in costs over time, and it's understandable if you want to stay away from those. B2P can be more accessible, and often cheaper. Guild Wars and Global Agenda come to mind. There are probably more.
I can assure you that developers will never be on your side if you refuse to pay them anything for their efforts.
It makes me laugh that people get their panties in such a bind about free to play games. 9 of 10 games that claim they are free to play are indeed free to play. There is nothing that forces you to buy anything out of the cash shop for real money. Most of the items are able to be traded which makes for a game that is completely 100% free to play for the person who wants to put the time into the game to get the gold to buy the cash shop items.
With all of the trash AAA games out now F2P gives me the ability to plink around trying to find a game that suits me. Heck, I even consider Eve Online F2P now as I make more than enough isk per week ( I can make enough in a day if I play long enough) from missions to buy PLEX or a 60 day GTC.
F2P will be the saving grace for MMO's.
My bad. I guess while I was typing that post up, I assumed that the point of the thread was to have forumgoers explain how they feel about "F2P" models, complete with a poll asking for an answer to the question How do you feel towards "F2P" models?
I'll try harder to stay on topic from now on.
But I, like many other gamers who know what they want, don't bother playing games that aren't fun. I would not dream of spending time playing a game purely for the sake of investment, with hopes that my wasted time will pay off with a far better game farther down the line. Even if you trudge through content that you loathe in hopes of some day reaching a point towards the end of the game where it finally becomes fun to play, you should not assume other people play the same way. And you certainly should not assume that it is the ultimate reason for the existence of the MMO genre.
To put it more directly, yes I do reach the point where a F2P game is fun to play. In every F2P game I've played, I had fun or else I dropped it and never looked back.
And it only costs Taco Bell half a cent to upgrade your medium Pepsi to a large but they charge you 20 cents more. What's your point? Pricing is absolutely not a simple matter of saying "How much does it cost us to make this, and how much profit do we want to make each time we sell it?"
In order for an F2P company to rip players off, they would have to deceive them. Who's being deceived here? The marketplace entries don't explicitly say what the profit margin on a sparkle pony is. Are there really players out there who are wildly leaping to the conclusion that a $4 price tag means it probably costs the company $3.50 every time they upload a sparkle pony to your bank? I think not.
The best part is that they clearly don't understand basic economics. There's a reason Henry Ford became a very, VERY rich man and he had to pay the costs of the materials. The even better part is that many of the MMO players arguing in this thread REALLY don't understand economics and are still trying so hard. So very hard.
Did you not read the rest of my post? I actually posted the deceptive methods they used. Forcing you to turn cash into "MMO coins" in order to facillitate the hiding of actual prices, hiding the ultimate cost behind a variety of mechanisms (again, Allods Online starts off at $5 for a single rune, there're 13 rune levels and lots of equipment slots - can't remember exactly how many - and it ends up at something ridiculous like $10k for a single rune slot completely filled, you can't be competitive without getting at least level 5-7 runes in every slot) etc etc.
So, you're saying that other players that bought stuff carried you, right?
The issue is that this model eventually collapses horribly. The "elite" players end up being squeezed for money and quitting, new players don't bother buying stuff because it's ridiculously expensive etc etc. It's a self-destructive payment model that will seriously hurt the industry if it carries on.
I'm quite happy to do P2P, just can't find a reasonable game that I'm willing to put my subscription on. Already have Guild Wars and Global Agenda, etc etc.
I am willing to pay, I am just not willing to be nickled and dimed by a bunch of greedy morons.