It doesn't really count as a choice. That's what the analogy was saying. You can either shoot yourself or let them shoot your mother. IT'S NOT REALLY A VIABLE OPTION.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
That is just wishful thinking with NO evidence to back up.
DDO increases its revenue 500% by turning F2P. LOTRO makes more money too. Yeah, i am sure Turbine is hurting a lot ... NOT.
Again, another tit who doesn't read the whole thread and just reads the first post. I hate these people, seriously.
It's not hard for a game on it's death bed to increase revenue by 500%. If I gain £4 where I have £1, I have increased my total money by 500%!
We've already talked over DDO and LotRO and they don't really count due to the game structure that would be hurt if they tried a traditional cash shop. Due to a massive amount of content for being a P2P game, they were capable of dividing the content up and selling it off in chunks which is far better. Nevermind the fact they couldn't really kill off the levelling experience to force players to use XP potions etc.
Do you understand?
LOL .. they don't count because it makes you look silly?
Well, if DDO is on dead bed before, it certainly no longer is. That is what VIABLE means. And how about LOTRO, are you going to claim it is on dead bed too?
What about Maple Story, Free Realms, RoM? Are you going to say they are not viable too? You have zero credibility if you think all F2P games are not making it. There are many who have made money and has frequent updates.
Free 2 play has become a buisness model to appeal to people who dont want to spend a monthly fee which I think is a smart way to go. Id rather spend like 15 bucks buying stuff in 2-3 months rather than 15 a month for something similar.
I play 2 F2P and I enjoy myself I may not level as fast and more limted but the game experince is fun, my Digimon online and Dragon Saga guilds are fun and we are all broke students so it fits, and i do supporti t by buying items every so often.
LOL .. they don't count because it makes you look silly?
Well, if DDO is on dead bed before, it certainly no longer is. That is what VIABLE means. And how about LOTRO, are you going to claim it is on dead bed too?
What about Maple Story, Free Realms, RoM? Are you going to say they are not viable too? You have zero credibility if you think all F2P games are not making it. There are many who have made money and has frequent updates.
Actually, I just realised something.
LotRO sells overpowered things in it's item mall that are NOT obtainable through gameplay. It sells item "tomes" which give you, overall, +50 to each stat. It sells potions far better than craftable ones, it does everything that is at issue with F2P MMOs and more.
Does anyone play Free Realms? RoM sells items in it's item mall that gate content too, which makes it's PvP horrible.
The heck? There's nothing wrong with entering a thread and commenting on the OP's post.
Of course not, if the matter hasn't been addressed.
Originally posted by warmaster670
Whatever excuse makes you feel better about F2P being a viable model.
And ya, belive it or not someone doesnt have to read an entire thread to post in it.
I have no idea what you're saying here. Are you American? You just said that you think that F2P is not a viable model.
It's considered a matter of forum etiquette to read the entire thread before you post in it.
If I had my way, people who didn't do it would get warnings and then bannings if they carried on with that crap.
Who gaves a crap what you think is forum etiquette? quite frankly is you expect someone to read 9 pages of threads before you grant them the priviledge of posting in a thread, whatever forum you were in control of would crash and burn faster than a flaming ballon full of gasoline.
Also apparently you need to learn to read, since i very clearly said F2P is a viable model, because it is whether you like it or not, and wether or not im American is completely irrelevent to anything.
Originally posted by kaorusdream
None of the F2P is actually free. but I dont hate them.
Again, funny since i play lotro without spending a dime just fine.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
LOL .. they don't count because it makes you look silly?
Well, if DDO is on dead bed before, it certainly no longer is. That is what VIABLE means. And how about LOTRO, are you going to claim it is on dead bed too?
What about Maple Story, Free Realms, RoM? Are you going to say they are not viable too? You have zero credibility if you think all F2P games are not making it. There are many who have made money and has frequent updates.
LotRO sells overpowered things in it's item mall that are NOT obtainable through gameplay. It sells item "tomes" which give you, overall, +50 to each stat. It sells potions far better than craftable ones, it does everything that is at issue with F2P MMOs and more.
Why are you talking out of your arse? GTFO.
Why are you talking out your ***?
heres a hint, every single item available in the lotro store, is available through gameplay, fact, there called turbine points, and you can earn them in game, so maybe you should take your own advice and GTFO since you clearly dont know what your talking about.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Perhaps it is you who clearly don't understand basic economics. You claim that many players don't understand economics, yet you provides nothing to back up your arguments. Beside, the F2P business model has been proven to be quite succesfull times and times again, Turbine has releases many statistic after both DDO and LOTRO went F2P that have shown a significant increase in revenue. As far as the industry is concerned, F2P wins. In your post you also use Allods has an exemple. Now to be fair, Allods cash shop is quite outrageous, and it was severely punished at launch for that reason. Many players who were interested are not playing it anymore, and that's it. The thing about F2P MMORPGs (all video games for that matter) is that no one is forcing you to play, but yourself. If you disagree with a game's Cash Shop, don't play it. It's as simple as that. I personally disagree with it, so I'm not playing Allods.
See, I don't really think DDO and LotRO count as "F2P" games. At the very least, they're closer to Guild Wars than they are to your average F2P MMO. I'm not denying the business model worked for them (and I'm certainly not surprised it did) because they offer a reasonable pay model. Outright buying content? Absolutely fine. Anyway, they were evolved from a P2P model game (therefore none of these ridiculous imbalances you see in current F2P games) so they had to work out another way to make players pay.
The fact that DDO and LotRO were both dying (therefore low subscribers and low income) and were boosted by going F2P (more subscribers and more income) isn't really surprising, either. A good portion won't pay if they DEFINITELY have to pay, but if there's a chance of F2P? They'll buy it and be happy with it.
I used Allods as an example of a game killing itself in the womb with a stupid, overpriced and inflated cash shop. It's the perfect example of the failed F2P cash model. You'll never see Richard Aihoshi address this on the front page, of course, he's too busy jizzing over how LotRO and DDO made money from going F2P or posting about this great new F2P game coming out that isn't exactly the same as every other one for some minor reason.
I have been playing allods for about a year now on and off as a casual 30y/o gamer with a child and a full time demanding job. I have been having a blast and have yet to spend one dime... Not one. The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money. I have a great time grouping and experiencing the content and even pvping. The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win, however I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.
However, since I have played, and am currently enjoying a f2p game and haven't spent a dime.. I have successfully disproved most of your arguments. You can stop now. Also.. I didn't know someone had to know a great deal about economics to play a game and have fun. You wouldn't happen to be a current college student would ya?
-The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money.
-The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win.
-However I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.
1. People spend money to access content, in Allods, that is not available otherwise. It has nothing to do with players being Hardcore or not.
2. Yes the PvP works, but it's ridiculously unfair and unbalanced. If a player can win simply because he uses Cash Shop, then by no mean does it make the PvP a "good" experience. Your success in both PvE and PvP should not be determined by a Cash Shop, as it is detrimental to the game, the overall experience, and the community.
3. By no mean is Allods anywhere close to WoW's PvP, for the simple fact that in WoW, you are not locked out of gears because of a Cash Shop. Yes Casuals will have to grind longer in WoW to get that "best gear", but it's a given. Nonetheless, WoW player's success is not determined by the amount of money spent in a Cash Shop, but the amount of time spent playing. Allod is the complete opposite of WoW (or any P2P titles with PvP for that matter).
F2P games are never trully free, there is always something out there that you will need to succeed in the game, like extra content, or the ability to level higher, games like runes of magic, its F2P but its P2W (pay to win), where you have to pay lots of money to be able to do the high end level instances and to do good in PvP. And games like Dungeons and Dragons where you have to pay for extra quest packs or adventure packs after you reach like level 10 otherwise you wont be able to level good. F2P games i guess need to make money some how, when it comes to it thought i prefer they just have an item shop with customization items, mounts, xp potions, skill potions, adventure pack ( but be able to do with out it).
-The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money.
-The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win.
-However I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.
1. People spend money to access content, in Allods, that is not available otherwise. It has nothing to do with players being Hardcore or not.
2. Yes the PvP works, but it's ridiculously unfair and unbalanced. If a player can win simply because he uses Cash Shop, then by no mean does it make the PvP a "good" experience. Your success in both PvE and PvP should not be determined by a Cash Shop, as it is detrimental to the game, the overall experience, and the community.
3. By no mean is Allods anywhere close to WoW's PvP, for the simple fact that in WoW, you are not locked out of gears because of a Cash Shop. Yes Casuals will have to grind longer in WoW to get that "best gear", but it's a given. Nonetheless, WoW player's success is not determined by the amount of money spent in a Cash Shop, but the amount of time spent playing. Allod is the complete opposite of WoW (or any P2P titles with PvP for that matter).
That is incorrect Sir. I have been playing Allods for a year now and have never spent money in the cash shop. I'm having a good time playing also. I have not spent any money. I have not been denied access to content. I have been able to pvp without issue. I would agree that if you MUST have the best of everything, you would probably need to spend money. I don't need the best of everything, just want a good time, so I don't spend money.
Do me a favor and describe the content you cannot access without paying... perhaps I've been playing incorrectly...
-The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money.
-The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win.
-However I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.
1. People spend money to access content, in Allods, that is not available otherwise. It has nothing to do with players being Hardcore or not.
2. Yes the PvP works, but it's ridiculously unfair and unbalanced. If a player can win simply because he uses Cash Shop, then by no mean does it make the PvP a "good" experience. Your success in both PvE and PvP should not be determined by a Cash Shop, as it is detrimental to the game, the overall experience, and the community.
3. By no mean is Allods anywhere close to WoW's PvP, for the simple fact that in WoW, you are not locked out of gears because of a Cash Shop. Yes Casuals will have to grind longer in WoW to get that "best gear", but it's a given. Nonetheless, WoW player's success is not determined by the amount of money spent in a Cash Shop, but the amount of time spent playing. Allod is the complete opposite of WoW (or any P2P titles with PvP for that matter).
That is incorrect Sir. I have been playing Allods for a year now and have never spent money in the cash shop. I'm having a good time playing also. I have not spent any money. I have not been denied access to content. I have been able to pvp without issue. I would agree that if you MUST have the best of everything, you would probably need to spend money. I don't need the best of everything, just want a good time, so I don't spend money.
Do me a favor and describe the content you cannot access without paying... perhaps I've been playing incorrectly...
This is the mentality that drives a lot of gamers nowadays , if people just accept second best / third rated, F2P games ain´t bad or grind there asses off or find a system of grind that involves minimal time verus maximum profit .
But again you have to have that 2nd best mentality to play for Free , if you cannot pay to play games like sub based.
Then don´t expect to be a king in a F2P market . no matter how much time invested into it .
-The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money.
-The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win.
-However I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.
1. People spend money to access content, in Allods, that is not available otherwise. It has nothing to do with players being Hardcore or not.
2. Yes the PvP works, but it's ridiculously unfair and unbalanced. If a player can win simply because he uses Cash Shop, then by no mean does it make the PvP a "good" experience. Your success in both PvE and PvP should not be determined by a Cash Shop, as it is detrimental to the game, the overall experience, and the community.
3. By no mean is Allods anywhere close to WoW's PvP, for the simple fact that in WoW, you are not locked out of gears because of a Cash Shop. Yes Casuals will have to grind longer in WoW to get that "best gear", but it's a given. Nonetheless, WoW player's success is not determined by the amount of money spent in a Cash Shop, but the amount of time spent playing. Allod is the complete opposite of WoW (or any P2P titles with PvP for that matter).
That is incorrect Sir. I have been playing Allods for a year now and have never spent money in the cash shop. I'm having a good time playing also. I have not spent any money. I have not been denied access to content. I have been able to pvp without issue. I would agree that if you MUST have the best of everything, you would probably need to spend money. I don't need the best of everything, just want a good time, so I don't spend money.
Do me a favor and describe the content you cannot access without paying... perhaps I've been playing incorrectly...
Quick exemple, if you cannot win against a player that uses Cash Shop, then you are being denied content. You are being denied access to the positive outcome of a battle because of an unfair and imbalanced system that gives overly significant bonuses to Cash Shop users.
This is the mentality that drives a lot of gamers nowadays , if people just accept second best / third rated, F2P games ain´t bad or grind there asses off or find a system of grind that involves minimal time verus maximum profit .
But again you have to have that 2nd best mentality to play for Free , if you cannot pay to play games like sub based.
Then don´t expect to be a king in a F2P market . no matter how much time invested into it .
Of course not. It is only fair. Some fun for free in exchange for not getting all the content.
Quick exemple, if you cannot win against a player that uses Cash Shop, then you are being denied content. You are being denied access to the positive outcome of a battle because of an unfair and imbalanced system that gives overly significant bonuses to Cash Shop users.
It was your personal decison to compete with someone who spent money, and your personal decision to not spend money yourself. You at no point were ever denied content. If anything, you simply made a series of bad choices.
There's an amazing level of entitlement displayed when one is getting entertainment for free and not only complaining that the person who paid money has more, but actually accusing the entertainers of denying them content - that they are actually somehow entitled to free access to entertainment that others are paying a premium to get.... in an entertainment arena where the content they are getting for free is being subsidized by the content that others are paying for! It's just an insanely over-the-top level of entitlement that I simply cannot in any way relate to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The best part is that they clearly don't understand basic economics. There's a reason Henry Ford became a very, VERY rich man and he had to pay the costs of the materials. The even better part is that many of the MMO players arguing in this thread REALLY don't understand economics and are still trying so hard. So very hard.
Did you not read the rest of my post? I actually posted the deceptive methods they used. Forcing you to turn cash into "MMO coins" in order to facillitate the hiding of actual prices, hiding the ultimate cost behind a variety of mechanisms (again, Allods Online starts off at $5 for a single rune, there're 13 rune levels and lots of equipment slots - can't remember exactly how many - and it ends up at something ridiculous like $10k for a single rune slot completely filled, you can't be competitive without getting at least level 5-7 runes in every slot) etc etc.
{mod edit}
Read up on supply and demand. The developer controls how much of something goes into a game, the players determine how much they want it (which, in turn, determines that price/value of the object). If something is incredibly rare and/or powerful, they can charge you however much they want, or, more accurately, however much they believe their paying customers will pay for it. You aren't one of their paying customers, but they're being nice and letting you play anyway.
First, as a game developer, I can tell you that the reason they use "credits" instead of cash is not to be deceptive. There are several reasons, but the main one is that if something goes wrong and you don't get your item, or you complain about something you bought, etc, its much easier to refund you digital credits than it is to refund actual money.
Second, and I think this is the most blindingly obvious, the game is free. {mod edit}
In the end, you pay money for a P2P game. In a F2P game you don't have to in order to play, but you can if you want to get the full experience. I would think that a F2P model is far more preferable to a 10 day trial in WoW.
sighhhh.... things like OPs post are the only reason why i still visit MMORPG forums from time to time these days
It really bothers me to read all these 10 pages or so, so i will be short as i can in my opinion. In the end after all these years, it doesnt matter if the game is F2P or P2P. We, the customers, let them to make us believe that they need money for server costs, maintenances, content developments, Coffee vending machines blahblah... which started all of this.
The point is: each and every game in video game industry is made for one purpose - to make money. But, in early F2P days, some of them offered more flexible free content. Back in 1999 (i think that is the year) EQ and similar games were fresh and new. In past 5 years or so, things drastically changed. Every new "buy the box for account" game now looks more and more terrible, while its makers still demands money for their box. On other side, every new "free to make account' game is becoming more and more terrible as well, while its makers demands money for anything else other than entering and logging in the game. And EQ became as old as hell now.
Ok, to sum it up: only difference is that F2P dont require bying box for client and thats all, while all new MMORPGs in global offer less and less fun (however if anyone finds more of grind, fluff, "paying for being cometitive" etc. fun, thats ok too but as for me, no more fun in that.). Something really needs to be done with the genre, regarding content and gameplay in global, so that customers will want to spend money or game, like many years before.
At least it seems that GW2 developers are the only ones aware of issues (if they are not trying to trick us into bying their product :P).
Just my opinion here. Greetings, dzoni87
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Actually, the primary difference between P2P and F2P is the monthly sub, not box sales. Many P2P MMOs have a free download (with extra perks like buddy codes if you buy the box), and there are even some F2P MMOs which still require you to buy the game first (Champions Online).
You also have to consider that these games can take anywhere from 2 to 4 years to develop. Now, if the company is paying bills, salaries, etc in that time, that can easily be 50 to 100+k every month (for a modest development company). That equals about 1.2 to 5 million dollars that the company has already spent on this one game without receiving any money at all. (This is why these games are so risky to build.)
So yes, the primary goal of any MMO (free or not) is to generate money. Even if these developers are simply creating this game for the passion of the community, they still need to get something back just to break even. If you like a game, support it in any way you can. If you don't, don't. But if you're not paying for these games that you would otherwise like, don't complain when they close their doors and you see 12 more WoW clones churned out on the assembly line instead.
I think everyone has forgotten that the primary purpose of an MMO is to generate profit. I'm not certain why some have categorized the act of generating that profit into acceptable and unacceptable forms. In the end, it really is comparing apples to oranges - but everyone's still eating a fruit.
This just goes to show the sad state of affairs we're in.
You know the original design of the monetary system is that you did something worthwhile and as a side-effect you got paid for it. That money you got paid then gave you access to the results of the worthwhile actions of others.
So you'd create an MMO with the primary purpose of entertaining the players and as a side-effect those players gave you money. So that you in turn could spend it at a baker who's primary purpose was making good bread and as a side-effect made money so he could play that MMO of yours.
But why do something worthwhile when by now the system is twisted so much that the primary purpose is making money and not providing quality.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
In the end, you pay money for a P2P game. In a F2P game you don't have to in order to play, but you can if you want to get the full experience. I would think that a F2P model is far more preferable to a 10 day trial in WoW.
{mod edit}
Way more. The key is that there is no time limit and I don't have to commit enough of my play-time to get my sub-fee worth. That is why F2P is so popular. No commitment and unlmited play on limited content.
Quick exemple, if you cannot win against a player that uses Cash Shop, then you are being denied content. You are being denied access to the positive outcome of a battle because of an unfair and imbalanced system that gives overly significant bonuses to Cash Shop users.
It was your personal decison to compete with someone who spent money, and your personal decision to not spend money yourself. You at no point were ever denied content. If anything, you simply made a series of bad choices.
Not quite. When you PvP, you don't get to choose wether you fight players who spent Cash Shop or not. You fight whatever player appears. The only decision the player made, was to PvP. If PvP is part of the game, then it is expected to be accessible and fair.
I like F2P because they are free. These games allow me to play and enjoy even if I don't spend money. If all MMOs are P2P, I probably wouldn't care about the industry. The F2P system allows players like us to still enjoy the game.
I know that there are games that are overly cash shop dependent. If that's the case, then I don't play it. But there are games which do not really require you to cash shop in order to be good. Those are the games that I play. On the other hand, there are also games which you can play the early and mid levels without cash shop, but requires it for end-game. For these kinds of games, I just enjoy it first, and then stop whenever I think that it already requires cash shop.
Played: Runescape, Adventure Quest Currently playing: Aika Global, Atlantica Online Waiting for: Cardmon Hero, Dynasty Warriors Online
F2P games really attracts us because it's FREE. but we didn't noticed that we do spend much money to f2p because you need to buy on their item mall shop for you're character to live in the game...
Yes, it depends on the game. i agree.. it's stupid if developers make games that create scenarios that pressure players in a way to purchase items from the cash shop. There should of course be an incentive in doing so but it shouldn't be an obvious "must."
One can't really argue with this problem. If you hate F2P MMOs, I'm sorry. All kinds of games (MMOs or not) require some sort of cash out if you think about it. If you're a tightwad like me, stick with console or pc games (singleplayer).
"The world's still the same - there's just less in it."
Comments
LOL .. they don't count because it makes you look silly?
Well, if DDO is on dead bed before, it certainly no longer is. That is what VIABLE means. And how about LOTRO, are you going to claim it is on dead bed too?
What about Maple Story, Free Realms, RoM? Are you going to say they are not viable too? You have zero credibility if you think all F2P games are not making it. There are many who have made money and has frequent updates.
None of the F2P is actually free. but I dont hate them.
Free 2 play has become a buisness model to appeal to people who dont want to spend a monthly fee which I think is a smart way to go. Id rather spend like 15 bucks buying stuff in 2-3 months rather than 15 a month for something similar.
I play 2 F2P and I enjoy myself I may not level as fast and more limted but the game experince is fun, my Digimon online and Dragon Saga guilds are fun and we are all broke students so it fits, and i do supporti t by buying items every so often.
Actually, I just realised something.
LotRO sells overpowered things in it's item mall that are NOT obtainable through gameplay. It sells item "tomes" which give you, overall, +50 to each stat. It sells potions far better than craftable ones, it does everything that is at issue with F2P MMOs and more.
Does anyone play Free Realms? RoM sells items in it's item mall that gate content too, which makes it's PvP horrible.
Why are you talking out of your arse? GTFO.
in the end. all they want is your money. depends if you're willing to let out some cash....
"The world's still the same - there's just less in it."
Who gaves a crap what you think is forum etiquette? quite frankly is you expect someone to read 9 pages of threads before you grant them the priviledge of posting in a thread, whatever forum you were in control of would crash and burn faster than a flaming ballon full of gasoline.
Also apparently you need to learn to read, since i very clearly said F2P is a viable model, because it is whether you like it or not, and wether or not im American is completely irrelevent to anything.
Again, funny since i play lotro without spending a dime just fine.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Why are you talking out your ***?
heres a hint, every single item available in the lotro store, is available through gameplay, fact, there called turbine points, and you can earn them in game, so maybe you should take your own advice and GTFO since you clearly dont know what your talking about.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
See, I don't really think DDO and LotRO count as "F2P" games. At the very least, they're closer to Guild Wars than they are to your average F2P MMO. I'm not denying the business model worked for them (and I'm certainly not surprised it did) because they offer a reasonable pay model. Outright buying content? Absolutely fine. Anyway, they were evolved from a P2P model game (therefore none of these ridiculous imbalances you see in current F2P games) so they had to work out another way to make players pay.
The fact that DDO and LotRO were both dying (therefore low subscribers and low income) and were boosted by going F2P (more subscribers and more income) isn't really surprising, either. A good portion won't pay if they DEFINITELY have to pay, but if there's a chance of F2P? They'll buy it and be happy with it.
I used Allods as an example of a game killing itself in the womb with a stupid, overpriced and inflated cash shop. It's the perfect example of the failed F2P cash model. You'll never see Richard Aihoshi address this on the front page, of course, he's too busy jizzing over how LotRO and DDO made money from going F2P or posting about this great new F2P game coming out that isn't exactly the same as every other one for some minor reason.
I have been playing allods for about a year now on and off as a casual 30y/o gamer with a child and a full time demanding job. I have been having a blast and have yet to spend one dime... Not one. The problem is that so many of these hardcore gamers feel the need to have the best everything and be the best at everything. That's the only reason you would have to spend money. I have a great time grouping and experiencing the content and even pvping. The pvp works because most of the people I fight have obviously not spent any money either. There will always be the person who has spent money.. And yes, they will win, however I experienced this same thing in wow with hardcore players with the best gear from raiding, it's no different.However, since I have played, and am currently enjoying a f2p game and haven't spent a dime.. I have successfully disproved most of your arguments. You can stop now. Also.. I didn't know someone had to know a great deal about economics to play a game and have fun. You wouldn't happen to be a current college student would ya?
1. People spend money to access content, in Allods, that is not available otherwise. It has nothing to do with players being Hardcore or not.
2. Yes the PvP works, but it's ridiculously unfair and unbalanced. If a player can win simply because he uses Cash Shop, then by no mean does it make the PvP a "good" experience. Your success in both PvE and PvP should not be determined by a Cash Shop, as it is detrimental to the game, the overall experience, and the community.
3. By no mean is Allods anywhere close to WoW's PvP, for the simple fact that in WoW, you are not locked out of gears because of a Cash Shop. Yes Casuals will have to grind longer in WoW to get that "best gear", but it's a given. Nonetheless, WoW player's success is not determined by the amount of money spent in a Cash Shop, but the amount of time spent playing. Allod is the complete opposite of WoW (or any P2P titles with PvP for that matter).
F2P games are never trully free, there is always something out there that you will need to succeed in the game, like extra content, or the ability to level higher, games like runes of magic, its F2P but its P2W (pay to win), where you have to pay lots of money to be able to do the high end level instances and to do good in PvP. And games like Dungeons and Dragons where you have to pay for extra quest packs or adventure packs after you reach like level 10 otherwise you wont be able to level good. F2P games i guess need to make money some how, when it comes to it thought i prefer they just have an item shop with customization items, mounts, xp potions, skill potions, adventure pack ( but be able to do with out it).
That is incorrect Sir. I have been playing Allods for a year now and have never spent money in the cash shop. I'm having a good time playing also. I have not spent any money. I have not been denied access to content. I have been able to pvp without issue. I would agree that if you MUST have the best of everything, you would probably need to spend money. I don't need the best of everything, just want a good time, so I don't spend money.
Do me a favor and describe the content you cannot access without paying... perhaps I've been playing incorrectly...
Have you done ANY end game content in Allods?
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This is the mentality that drives a lot of gamers nowadays , if people just accept second best / third rated, F2P games ain´t bad or grind there asses off or find a system of grind that involves minimal time verus maximum profit .
But again you have to have that 2nd best mentality to play for Free , if you cannot pay to play games like sub based.
Then don´t expect to be a king in a F2P market . no matter how much time invested into it .
Quick exemple, if you cannot win against a player that uses Cash Shop, then you are being denied content. You are being denied access to the positive outcome of a battle because of an unfair and imbalanced system that gives overly significant bonuses to Cash Shop users.
Of course not. It is only fair. Some fun for free in exchange for not getting all the content.
It was your personal decison to compete with someone who spent money, and your personal decision to not spend money yourself. You at no point were ever denied content. If anything, you simply made a series of bad choices.
There's an amazing level of entitlement displayed when one is getting entertainment for free and not only complaining that the person who paid money has more, but actually accusing the entertainers of denying them content - that they are actually somehow entitled to free access to entertainment that others are paying a premium to get.... in an entertainment arena where the content they are getting for free is being subsidized by the content that others are paying for! It's just an insanely over-the-top level of entitlement that I simply cannot in any way relate to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
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Read up on supply and demand. The developer controls how much of something goes into a game, the players determine how much they want it (which, in turn, determines that price/value of the object). If something is incredibly rare and/or powerful, they can charge you however much they want, or, more accurately, however much they believe their paying customers will pay for it. You aren't one of their paying customers, but they're being nice and letting you play anyway.
First, as a game developer, I can tell you that the reason they use "credits" instead of cash is not to be deceptive. There are several reasons, but the main one is that if something goes wrong and you don't get your item, or you complain about something you bought, etc, its much easier to refund you digital credits than it is to refund actual money.
Second, and I think this is the most blindingly obvious, the game is free. {mod edit}
In the end, you pay money for a P2P game. In a F2P game you don't have to in order to play, but you can if you want to get the full experience. I would think that a F2P model is far more preferable to a 10 day trial in WoW.
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sighhhh.... things like OPs post are the only reason why i still visit MMORPG forums from time to time these days
It really bothers me to read all these 10 pages or so, so i will be short as i can in my opinion. In the end after all these years, it doesnt matter if the game is F2P or P2P. We, the customers, let them to make us believe that they need money for server costs, maintenances, content developments, Coffee vending machines blahblah... which started all of this.
The point is: each and every game in video game industry is made for one purpose - to make money. But, in early F2P days, some of them offered more flexible free content. Back in 1999 (i think that is the year) EQ and similar games were fresh and new. In past 5 years or so, things drastically changed. Every new "buy the box for account" game now looks more and more terrible, while its makers still demands money for their box. On other side, every new "free to make account' game is becoming more and more terrible as well, while its makers demands money for anything else other than entering and logging in the game. And EQ became as old as hell now.
Ok, to sum it up: only difference is that F2P dont require bying box for client and thats all, while all new MMORPGs in global offer less and less fun (however if anyone finds more of grind, fluff, "paying for being cometitive" etc. fun, thats ok too but as for me, no more fun in that.). Something really needs to be done with the genre, regarding content and gameplay in global, so that customers will want to spend money or game, like many years before.
At least it seems that GW2 developers are the only ones aware of issues (if they are not trying to trick us into bying their product :P).
Just my opinion here. Greetings, dzoni87
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Actually, the primary difference between P2P and F2P is the monthly sub, not box sales. Many P2P MMOs have a free download (with extra perks like buddy codes if you buy the box), and there are even some F2P MMOs which still require you to buy the game first (Champions Online).
You also have to consider that these games can take anywhere from 2 to 4 years to develop. Now, if the company is paying bills, salaries, etc in that time, that can easily be 50 to 100+k every month (for a modest development company). That equals about 1.2 to 5 million dollars that the company has already spent on this one game without receiving any money at all. (This is why these games are so risky to build.)
So yes, the primary goal of any MMO (free or not) is to generate money. Even if these developers are simply creating this game for the passion of the community, they still need to get something back just to break even. If you like a game, support it in any way you can. If you don't, don't. But if you're not paying for these games that you would otherwise like, don't complain when they close their doors and you see 12 more WoW clones churned out on the assembly line instead.
This just goes to show the sad state of affairs we're in.
You know the original design of the monetary system is that you did something worthwhile and as a side-effect you got paid for it. That money you got paid then gave you access to the results of the worthwhile actions of others.
So you'd create an MMO with the primary purpose of entertaining the players and as a side-effect those players gave you money. So that you in turn could spend it at a baker who's primary purpose was making good bread and as a side-effect made money so he could play that MMO of yours.
But why do something worthwhile when by now the system is twisted so much that the primary purpose is making money and not providing quality.
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Resistance is futile.
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Way more. The key is that there is no time limit and I don't have to commit enough of my play-time to get my sub-fee worth. That is why F2P is so popular. No commitment and unlmited play on limited content.
Not quite. When you PvP, you don't get to choose wether you fight players who spent Cash Shop or not. You fight whatever player appears. The only decision the player made, was to PvP. If PvP is part of the game, then it is expected to be accessible and fair.
I like F2P because they are free. These games allow me to play and enjoy even if I don't spend money. If all MMOs are P2P, I probably wouldn't care about the industry. The F2P system allows players like us to still enjoy the game.
I know that there are games that are overly cash shop dependent. If that's the case, then I don't play it. But there are games which do not really require you to cash shop in order to be good. Those are the games that I play. On the other hand, there are also games which you can play the early and mid levels without cash shop, but requires it for end-game. For these kinds of games, I just enjoy it first, and then stop whenever I think that it already requires cash shop.
Played: Runescape, Adventure Quest
Currently playing: Aika Global, Atlantica Online
Waiting for: Cardmon Hero, Dynasty Warriors Online
F2P games really attracts us because it's FREE. but we didn't noticed that we do spend much money to f2p because you need to buy on their item mall shop for you're character to live in the game...
Yes, it depends on the game. i agree.. it's stupid if developers make games that create scenarios that pressure players in a way to purchase items from the cash shop. There should of course be an incentive in doing so but it shouldn't be an obvious "must."
One can't really argue with this problem. If you hate F2P MMOs, I'm sorry. All kinds of games (MMOs or not) require some sort of cash out if you think about it. If you're a tightwad like me, stick with console or pc games (singleplayer).
"The world's still the same - there's just less in it."