The Syndicate might indeed have become part of the problem, the above statement would indicate that (if true) then they are influencing the Dev process of MMO's... and.. their a business, their not players, and they have a vested interest.. which to me would mean that any input they have.. would be tainted.. who they are no longer matters. I'd be very interested in what games they have been involved in.. it may even explain why certain games have failed. were they involved with APB ?
I'd be interested in which post-DAoC MMOs didn't have input from established and influential guilds during development. As a dev, one is seeing things from the inside. The combination of already knowing how everything works, intrinsic familiarity with the best possible paths and attachment to the project often colors things in such a way that an outsider's view is necessary. It's why about 5-6 years into almost every MMO some abomination happens, as the team - in focus and in members - is so far removed from the original design that crap like Gates of Discord, Trials of Atlantis and Age of Shadows happen. I don't follow WOW... how's Cataclysm? Did they break the pattern?
As for your theory about player-involvement in development and game success/failure, you do know how WOW was created, right?
Ain't that the truth. One thing I think I can add, (not a correction mind you!) is that I think as a dev you don't see everything. You work on things and become so ingrained into a project you see what is before you and how everything does work, but you lose sight past that. On the one project I was working on, I was developing mechanics and implenting them for this game. I had everything written down from every single suggestion after a playtest session. I looked at everything on the list and asked if the suggestion was right, did it make the game more fun, etc. I rexamined myself from the feedback I was given. As a result the testers influenced the way the game changed and it changed dramatically. Often they would point out things that I would miss. It's like writing a book. You don't see alot of spelling errors or gramatical errors and that's what an editor is for. Playtesters are the editors. I think player testing is crucial on so many levels in games.
Oh and as far as Cataclysm, lets just say I think it's aptly named. I was never a big WoW fan for many reasons, but it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'm not into uber gaming as I think you may have picked up from previous posts of mine hahaha. In my opinion I think WoW is a clear case of what happens when you let ex uber guild leaders develop. It did some things right but the core values and ethics of the game were broken since beta. As Bioware is ran by role players at it's core, I believe that I'll enjoy The Old Republic much more as a result just on that notion alone. On a sidenote Lokto, it's nice to see we can agree and disagree I enjoy your posts even if I disagree with some of your points
Banegrivm Leader of the 1st Fist of Light www.1stfistoflight.com
Aref - To help educate everyone a little bit on Trademarks ... not only is "The Syndicate" able to be trademarked but it was done so over 5 years ago. That means that it is now unchallengeable as to its legitimacy or for anyone else to claim earlier first use. In terms of those other examples you sited, trademarks are done only for a specific area of commerce. You can be "Hooters the Car Dealership" and not violate the Hooters restaurant chain's trademark. You can only protect your name within your area of commerce. In our case that is within the gaming space and supporting guild websites. In fact a major gaming company just bumped into our mark working on a similarly titled game and we ended up putting some legal documents in place so as to confirm we agreed there was no conflict. Hopefully that helps clarify a bit more on how marks work.
LOL.
Have you considered it's that no one else is douchebaggy enough to try to trademarked a (quite frankly) terrible guild name?
Dear lord. :') This shit is downright funny. You guys are REALLY full of yourselves, aren't you?
I've been playing MMOs longer than TS has been around. Never heard of them. That doesnt mean they aren't big OR small. Doesn't matter to me.
I would like to say though, that if a 'world renowned' guild were donating $$ to disaster relief, it would be a newsworthy event and could/should be posted here. Not the OP, April Fool's joke or not.
If this thread were a game, you'd be rolling in money, and have a nearly united community that could do nothing but grow.
Maybe if the syndicate lead a substantial movement against the agenda instead of making a joke, they wouldnt be unanimously lol'd at. If this is all they can offer, who cares. Looks like nobody.
Maybe get out of bed with the devs, wipe your face off, give back the gifts, and remember who your freinds are. We can offer 'real' fame.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I'd never heard of these guys before I read about them on this site, and in all the games I've played I have yet to run into them or see any remnant of them that deserves any kind of acknowledgement. If it's a slow news day, I'd rather see no news than news about an irrelevant guild.
Now if said guild decides to start developing an game of their own, they're worth talking about on this site. Until then, why do they keep being written about? Someone on staff part of the guild? I've never seen any other guild written about. I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
If anyone has suggestions for editorial (such as the member highlight suggested above) please email us or use the Site Suggestions forum. Those are more direct ways of letting us know what you'd like to see more or less of.
This is really simple. The core idea of all these long comments are:
"People don't care."
Personally, I still find reading the comments very entertaining. :P
I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
I don't feel it's a lack of professionalism. It seems they just assumed the posters here were more familiar with the industry than they actually are. I have a feeling that statement is going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's either that or given the choice of learn from something new or burn something new at the stake, they'll take the latter.
This thread said a lot about the crowd here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If they are more of a business than a guild then why perpetuate an outright lie that they are the oldest guild when they are clearly not? Their are plenty of other guilds that are long term who have been around as I mentioned in another post previously.
Yeah i can snip my own post if i like...
Now this will perhaps sound pissy but it is out of pure curiosity... Give me names of guilds who have been going strong for 15 solid years (pref with no re-forming or re-branding) because i am realy curious.
If they are more of a business than a guild then why perpetuate an outright lie that they are the oldest guild when they are clearly not? Their are plenty of other guilds that are long term who have been around as I mentioned in another post previously.
Yeah i can snip my own post if i like...
Now this will perhaps sound pissy but it is out of pure curiosity... Give me names of guilds who have been going strong for 15 solid years (pref with no re-forming or re-branding) because i am realy curious.
Well I don't sound to be pissy, but i have a better question which keeps getting ignored by all of you... why is the syndicate or any other guild mmo news? Because they helped test games and are a long standing guild? Who cares.
You might have an arguement if the articles where about their actual involvement in mmo's, but they're not, they're about the guild. We should have a monthly update on what derek smart is doing too, in no relation to whatever game he is designing, just what he and his family has been doing in the free time and where they're going to vacation.
If they're going to do a story on them have a interview that actually relates to anything relevant to people that would be reading it, not about their guild.
Also, as another reader said, these stories did reveal a lot about the readers here... like they don't want to read irrelevant updates on guilds not related to games. And if the community is gona to be so on sidedly negative... why put more updates on the guild?
@Heartless - While there is a massive leap between what you do in an Alpha/Beta/FAF and The Syndicate's contracted producer-level interactions, you've been a member of the MMO community for quite a while, spending half that time blogging about it. I'm quite sure that if you submitted a particularly insightful, humorous or controversial article from your site to MMORPG.com they would post a news article about it. The same goes for Paragus, Teala Te'jir and quite a few others here with some really great insight into MMO and game development.
I meant it as a joke. Their claim to fame is the fact that they have been in this community for a long time and that they test games, as do many other people btw, and I'm not sure this community need monthly (or is it bi-monthly now?), updates on some obscure guild which claims to be the voice of the MMORPG community. Just like I'm sure that this community does not need bi-monthly updates about me, although I am a pretty kick ass person once you get to know me.
People like Paragus, Teala and a few others who run blogs on this website actually contribute positively to the community as very often, their blogs are informative and thought provoking. You can't compare them to a group of people who believe that they are "industry leaders" because they test games and have been around for a long time or some crap.
Now that I think about it though, if these people do claim to have been contracted by game developers to test their games and help with design and such, I now know who to blame for the flood of WoW-like themepark MMOs. I wonder if there is a list of which games these "industry leaders" have been involved with.
I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
I don't feel it's a lack of professionalism. It seems they just assumed the posters here were more familiar with the industry than they actually are. I have a feeling that statement is going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's either that or given the choice of learn from something new or burn something new at the stake, they'll take the latter.
This thread said a lot about the crowd here.
Not quite. Knowledge of the industry or lack thereof is irrelevant to a discussion on whether or not the movements of a particular guild is news-worthy. You're off on a bit of a tangent. Unless of course that's what others were talking about. I can't comment on that, I didn't read through all of the posts in this thread so your final statement could in some ways be true.
My own point was this is a site about gaming, not about guilds. I could see if this were an article about some huge gaming event that guild sponsored, something along that line. But it gets to be a bit much. I don't particularly care who's in the guild, how long they've been around, or if they get to play games before the rest of us do. I'm not that shallow. But there's a very distinct amount of favoritism displayed towards the guild which is disappointing.
If they want to talk about guilds, talk about guilds. There are other guilds that have been around a while, others that have done interesting things, etc. But while they're at it, I hope they put that in a separate section. I don't want to read about them, either.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
I don't feel it's a lack of professionalism. It seems they just assumed the posters here were more familiar with the industry than they actually are. I have a feeling that statement is going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's either that or given the choice of learn from something new or burn something new at the stake, they'll take the latter.
This thread said a lot about the crowd here.
Pardon?
I have been 'involved' in mmos as both a cross game guild leader and as someone who has been involved with guilds which have lasted longer than most mmos do. I'd like to think I am relatively 'familiar' with the industry in general but I fail to see exactly what that has to do with people having zero interest in what is essentially a beta testing guild...
It's great that they have lasted so long and that they get involved in beta testing, but for me, that's about as news worthy as, well it's not even worth an anecdote put it that way.
This thread may indeed have said alot about some of the readers here, they are more interested in reading about a guild that is actively dominating/doing something major in an mmo now, in the here and present, then about seeing repeat, throwaway articles about a guild that most don't seem to have actually seen ig at any point.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Aref - To help educate everyone a little bit on Trademarks ... not only is "The Syndicate" able to be trademarked but it was done so over 5 years ago. That means that it is now unchallengeable as to its legitimacy or for anyone else to claim earlier first use.
Ok, I am going to stop you there; just because it hasn't successfully been challenged (has anyone even bothered to try?), does not mean that it cannot be successfully challenged in court. It is much the same as when Microsoft sued Lindows because of it's similarity to Windows, and Lindows countersued Microsoft because Microsoft didn't create the word Windows. Microsoft wisely settled out of court on that one, and paid Lindows to change their name. The simple fact of the matter is that ANYTHING can be challenged in court (and generally is these days); NOTHING is unchallengeable.
The lawsuit over "Sun" as well. Not "Sun Microsystems" just "Sun", had they won, would that have covered "Son" as well?
Much more recently is Apple trying to copyright "App Store" and suing the various mega and minor companies using "App store", "Appstore" and "Apps store" when anyone on the interwebz before facebook know that "App store" has been used on thousands on websites, since shortly after the first software was sold on the internet.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
If they are more of a business than a guild then why perpetuate an outright lie that they are the oldest guild when they are clearly not? Their are plenty of other guilds that are long term who have been around as I mentioned in another post previously.
Yeah i can snip my own post if i like...
Now this will perhaps sound pissy but it is out of pure curiosity... Give me names of guilds who have been going strong for 15 solid years (pref with no re-forming or re-branding) because i am realy curious.
Well I don't sound to be pissy, but i have a better question which keeps getting ignored by all of you... why is the syndicate or any other guild mmo news? Because they helped test games and are a long standing guild? Who cares.
You might have an arguement if the articles where about their actual involvement in mmo's, but they're not, they're about the guild. We should have a monthly update on what derek smart is doing too, in no relation to whatever game he is designing, just what he and his family has been doing in the free time and where they're going to vacation.
If they're going to do a story on them have a interview that actually relates to anything relevant to people that would be reading it, not about their guild.
Also, as another reader said, these stories did reveal a lot about the readers here... like they don't want to read irrelevant updates on guilds not related to games. And if the community is gona to be so on sidedly negative... why put more updates on the guild?
Well this one... They listed pretty much every other april fools joke in the mmo genre... the other one.. well let's see... a major MMORPG site + a major MMO guild (with precens in several games) = A opening for interesting articles. But not without some buttering.
I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
I don't feel it's a lack of professionalism. It seems they just assumed the posters here were more familiar with the industry than they actually are. I have a feeling that statement is going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's either that or given the choice of learn from something new or burn something new at the stake, they'll take the latter.
This thread said a lot about the crowd here.
Not quite. Knowledge of the industry or lack thereof is irrelevant to a discussion on whether or not the movements of a particular guild is news-worthy. You're off on a bit of a tangent. Unless of course that's what others were talking about. I can't comment on that, I didn't read through all of the posts in this thread so your final statement could in some ways be true.
My own point was this is a site about gaming, not about guilds. I could see if this were an article about some huge gaming event that guild sponsored, something along that line. But it gets to be a bit much. I don't particularly care who's in the guild, how long they've been around, or if they get to play games before the rest of us do. I'm not that shallow. But there's a very distinct amount of favoritism displayed towards the guild which is disappointing.
If they want to talk about guilds, talk about guilds. There are other guilds that have been around a while, others that have done interesting things, etc. But while they're at it, I hope they put that in a separate section. I don't want to read about them, either.
I want to focus on that line specifically.This is MMORPG.com. The posters very often and very avidly discuss how MMOs need renewed emphasis on social interaction. They also discuss development and design mechanics very extensively. Along comes news about a guild that has a long-standing history and that has an intrinsic knowledge of the very topics these forums are always abuzz about. Instead of using this opportunity to engage members of The Syndicate in conversation or discuss any related topics, we see quite a few posts here rebuuking both the article writer and TS, even going as far as saying they will not come to this site anymore because news about a guild was posted.
The general contention by so many on these forums is that the social aspect of MMOs is lost, which makes it very odd to see so many posts echoing the sentiments in that one statement I bolded above. MMOs are as much about the members of their community as they are about the code and mechanics that run in the background.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm not sure that being "influential in the development of several games" through the conceptual, alpha, beta, and release phases is really anything to brag about since one of the problems in the MMO community is the stale drivel and drool.
You're taking credit for the influence, are you taking equal blame for the lack of innovation? Have you never told a company "Guys, there's no reason a player would leave their bank time-invested characters on [x similar games]"? If you have told them that, then your influence is not nearly what you think it is because they are not listening.
Have you never told a company that the game was good but had too many bugs and needed at least 3 or 6 more months to work these programmatatic and interaction bugs out and to test how the fixes influence the system? Because if you have, they aren't listening to you more than they are any of us.
If you were involved in DC Universe (I didn't see a list of games you helped test, I understand NDAs may and probably would restrict you from mentioning them), did you tell them the game was boring at cap like every gamer it seems, seems to think?
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Sure i want more prisons... they are good... But not here in my backyard.
" I'm not sure that being "influential in the development of several games" through the conceptual, alpha, beta, and release phases is really anything to brag about since one of the problems in the MMO community is the stale drivel and drool.
You're taking credit for the influence, are you taking equal blame for the lack of innovation? Have you never told a company "Guys, there's no reason a player would leave their bank time-invested characters on [x similar games]"? If you have told them that, then your influence is not nearly what you think it is because they are not listening.
Have you never told a company that the game was good but had too many bugs and needed at least 3 or 6 more months to work these programmatatic and interaction bugs out and to test how the fixes influence the system? Because if you have, they aren't listening to you more than they are any of us. "
You don't live much in the real world do you.... If this is your view of the reality, i realy woudl like to live in your world... Here in reality things are not that black and white.. you work within the system.. within the limits you have and make the best of what you get... You can not turn a Old Volvo in to a Ferrari... But you can turn it in to a pretty awsome Volvo. And in such a scenario it is better to try and make the volvo then to throw your arms in the air and say.. Ferrari or bust. That is how it goes down in the real world,
" I'm not sure that being "influential in the development of several games" through the conceptual, alpha, beta, and release phases is really anything to brag about since one of the problems in the MMO community is the stale drivel and drool.
You're taking credit for the influence, are you taking equal blame for the lack of innovation? Have you never told a company "Guys, there's no reason a player would leave their bank time-invested characters on [x similar games]"? If you have told them that, then your influence is not nearly what you think it is because they are not listening.
Have you never told a company that the game was good but had too many bugs and needed at least 3 or 6 more months to work these programmatatic and interaction bugs out and to test how the fixes influence the system? Because if you have, they aren't listening to you more than they are any of us. "
You don't live much in the real world do you.... If this is your view of the reality, i realy woudl like to live in your world... Here in reality things are not that black and white.. you work within the system.. within the limits you have and make the best of what you get... You can not turn a Old Volvo in to a Ferrari... But you can turn it in to a pretty awsome Volvo. And in such a scenario it is better to try and make the volvo then to throw your arms in the air and say.. Ferrari or bust. That is how it goes down in the real world,
Hmm. I don't know what's up with the personal attacks, but on to your points...
All I meant, and I gave a few examples is we all know, as is frequently discussed, there is a serious lack of innovation in the MMO industry. AAA stuff is mindnumbingly the same with little change in the better part of a decade.
They imply some higher relation with developers than your typical alpha or beta tester. But we're not seeing the results of a guild "of the communnity" communicating with developers. We see the same drivel and stale drool, or something so far way off base (FFXIV) or something released way too eary (DCUO). If I had the developer's ear, and considered my opinion to matter I'd:
I'd've told RIFT to bring build in quality voice chat. This is a feature that the market they are are after desires. I'd've told them that first impressions matter a great deal and they could do a lot for their game by making the UI feel different. CoH (I've only played a trial) has a UI that does most of the same things RIFT's does but different placement and different design furthers its distinction as different from a lot of other games.
I'd've told SE that FFXI was great and level-sync was great. I'd've told them 14 is terrible and you just can't limit the amount a player can do in a week and expect hardcores or even heavier casuals to maintain an interest. Complicated menus or lagging menu interaction? This just cannot happen. There's nothing more frustrating than the connection really being at fault for why you died.
It's pretty clear what DCUO should have done.
I'd tell all these games that PVP is a great and fun and worthwhile experience but promising balance of PVE abilities in a PVP environment is a really bad idea. The Holy Trinity is a large part of the reason, probably that PVE clashes so badly with PVP.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
To dismiss a group like TS because your ideas of a better world did not come to fruitation is not a clear case that no-one is listening... The point i tried to get across.. that most people today seems to miss is that during development 4/5 of all good ideas get scrapped in one way or another... in the ned it all comes down to cost/return... What a team like TS can do for a company.. as they stated is to clarify if the assesment is correct without haiving to rely on people who have nothing but a moral obligation to protect the company or it's assets.
When they speak of being on the inside and having the developers ear...it is not like they can dictate how the game developes.. they can make suggestions and you can be very much sure that the company listen more to them then you or me.
So your intital asumption that they are not "in the loop" because they do not get what you consider the right things done.
But if i may be soo bold and make an asumption of my own... I asume games could have been a lot worse if they had not been there...
We will never know as time saddly is linear at this time and age.
To dismiss a group like TS because your ideas of a better world did not come to fruitation is not a clear case that no-one is listening... The point i tried to get across.. that most people today seems to miss is that during development 4/5 of all good ideas get scrapped in one way or another... in the ned it all comes down to cost/return... What a team like TS can do for a company.. as they stated is to clarify if the assesment is correct without haiving to rely on people who have nothing but a moral obligation to protect the company or it's assets.
When they speak of being on the inside and having the developers ear...it is not like they can dictate how the game developes.. they can make suggestions and you can be very much sure that the company listen more to them then you or me.
So your intital asumption that they are not "in the loop" because they do not get what you consider the right things done.
But if i may be soo bold and make an asumption of my own... I asume games could have been a lot worse if they had not been there...
We will never know as time saddly is linear at this time and age.
If some of the wilder LHC theories succeed, maybe we can send Sony a few quantum whispers .
I'm not sure most of the big release games could be much worse because they're just rehashing the same thing. It's hard to copy wrong, unless TS was involved in the inovations*** WoW made.
It's funny, when I saw Syndicate post yesterday I saw they signed up in like Jan 04, so I looked at their posting history, and their first or second post is defending the ill press they still have to this day.
*** I strictly mean by streamlining and getting rid of some of the job-feel that previous mmo's had. Of course WoW, previous MMOs and later-releases came to feel like a job in a different way.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering what the demographics of TS might be to have garnered this kind of uncharacteristic lavishment of access and privelege, not just by game developers but by game media.
It would be interesting to note the following:
Gender
Age
Race
Real World profession
Real World Salary.
Perhaps then we would see the bias in this industry toward one group over another, and why the genre has really failed to move forward in innovation and design.
It's funny, when I saw Syndicate post yesterday I saw they signed up in like Jan 04, so I looked at their posting history, and their first or second post is defending the ill press they still have to this day.
Just did this. I advise everyone else to do it, too. Every single post has been "We don't post here often but we've came to defend ourselves from baseless accusations."
The past seven years have had "baseless accusations" levelled at them. There's no smoke without fire, guys.
hey my wife is the guildmaster of almost 600 people on WoW. does this mean we can start running news stories on what they do? Cause they are bigger than The Syndicate, And that's only one game.
And back in Ultima IV me and a buddy formed a lore guild named "16th street", we never broke the guild up (just him and I) does this mean I can send letters to The Syndicate telling them to no longer claim they are the oldest??
Jesus, I ONLY hear about The Syndicate from stupid crap like this. I've played since 1997 and NEVER ONCE seen them in ANY game.
They are the Paris Hilton of MMOs, they claim they are the best at what they do... Yet they have never done anything... Yet they are famous for being famous.
I don't get why this is news. OMG the syndicate is doing something?! whoopty shit. Same even if its for april fools. Hey you guys my Aunt Cindy got RED car! lol tricked she hates the color red I totally tricked you. That's just as newsworthy.
Every top guild I have seen in MMO's has NOT been the syndicate. I think their famous just for being famous and don't actually do anything people care about.
In no way, not from any angle, is this a good news story or april fools joke. It is a total failure in the most literal and complete sense of the term.
This ^^^
Just when you think this site cant lower its "standards" any further......
Comments
Ain't that the truth. One thing I think I can add, (not a correction mind you!) is that I think as a dev you don't see everything. You work on things and become so ingrained into a project you see what is before you and how everything does work, but you lose sight past that. On the one project I was working on, I was developing mechanics and implenting them for this game. I had everything written down from every single suggestion after a playtest session. I looked at everything on the list and asked if the suggestion was right, did it make the game more fun, etc. I rexamined myself from the feedback I was given. As a result the testers influenced the way the game changed and it changed dramatically. Often they would point out things that I would miss. It's like writing a book. You don't see alot of spelling errors or gramatical errors and that's what an editor is for. Playtesters are the editors. I think player testing is crucial on so many levels in games.
Oh and as far as Cataclysm, lets just say I think it's aptly named. I was never a big WoW fan for many reasons, but it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'm not into uber gaming as I think you may have picked up from previous posts of mine hahaha. In my opinion I think WoW is a clear case of what happens when you let ex uber guild leaders develop. It did some things right but the core values and ethics of the game were broken since beta. As Bioware is ran by role players at it's core, I believe that I'll enjoy The Old Republic much more as a result just on that notion alone. On a sidenote Lokto, it's nice to see we can agree and disagree
I enjoy your posts even if I disagree with some of your points 
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
LOL.
Have you considered it's that no one else is douchebaggy enough to try to trademarked a (quite frankly) terrible guild name?
Dear lord. :') This shit is downright funny. You guys are REALLY full of yourselves, aren't you?
Add me on Steam!
Me and a Friend are Bad At Games
I've been playing MMOs longer than TS has been around. Never heard of them. That doesnt mean they aren't big OR small. Doesn't matter to me.
I would like to say though, that if a 'world renowned' guild were donating $$ to disaster relief, it would be a newsworthy event and could/should be posted here. Not the OP, April Fool's joke or not.
If this thread were a game, you'd be rolling in money, and have a nearly united community that could do nothing but grow.
Maybe if the syndicate lead a substantial movement against the agenda instead of making a joke, they wouldnt be unanimously lol'd at. If this is all they can offer, who cares. Looks like nobody.
Maybe get out of bed with the devs, wipe your face off, give back the gifts, and remember who your freinds are. We can offer 'real' fame.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Never heard of them in PoTBS, Planetside, DDO or Warhammer.....
I'd never heard of these guys before I read about them on this site, and in all the games I've played I have yet to run into them or see any remnant of them that deserves any kind of acknowledgement. If it's a slow news day, I'd rather see no news than news about an irrelevant guild.
Now if said guild decides to start developing an game of their own, they're worth talking about on this site. Until then, why do they keep being written about? Someone on staff part of the guild? I've never seen any other guild written about. I'm usually quick to stick up for the staff here, but all the articles about this guild reek of a lack of professionalism.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
This is really simple. The core idea of all these long comments are:
"People don't care."
Personally, I still find reading the comments very entertaining. :P
I don't feel it's a lack of professionalism. It seems they just assumed the posters here were more familiar with the industry than they actually are. I have a feeling that statement is going to ruffle a few feathers, but it's either that or given the choice of learn from something new or burn something new at the stake, they'll take the latter.
This thread said a lot about the crowd here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yeah i can snip my own post if i like...
Now this will perhaps sound pissy but it is out of pure curiosity... Give me names of guilds who have been going strong for 15 solid years (pref with no re-forming or re-branding) because i am realy curious.
This have been a good conversation
Well I don't sound to be pissy, but i have a better question which keeps getting ignored by all of you... why is the syndicate or any other guild mmo news? Because they helped test games and are a long standing guild? Who cares.
You might have an arguement if the articles where about their actual involvement in mmo's, but they're not, they're about the guild. We should have a monthly update on what derek smart is doing too, in no relation to whatever game he is designing, just what he and his family has been doing in the free time and where they're going to vacation.
If they're going to do a story on them have a interview that actually relates to anything relevant to people that would be reading it, not about their guild.
Also, as another reader said, these stories did reveal a lot about the readers here... like they don't want to read irrelevant updates on guilds not related to games. And if the community is gona to be so on sidedly negative... why put more updates on the guild?
I meant it as a joke. Their claim to fame is the fact that they have been in this community for a long time and that they test games, as do many other people btw, and I'm not sure this community need monthly (or is it bi-monthly now?), updates on some obscure guild which claims to be the voice of the MMORPG community. Just like I'm sure that this community does not need bi-monthly updates about me, although I am a pretty kick ass person once you get to know me.
People like Paragus, Teala and a few others who run blogs on this website actually contribute positively to the community as very often, their blogs are informative and thought provoking. You can't compare them to a group of people who believe that they are "industry leaders" because they test games and have been around for a long time or some crap.
Now that I think about it though, if these people do claim to have been contracted by game developers to test their games and help with design and such, I now know who to blame for the flood of WoW-like themepark MMOs. I wonder if there is a list of which games these "industry leaders" have been involved with.
Not quite. Knowledge of the industry or lack thereof is irrelevant to a discussion on whether or not the movements of a particular guild is news-worthy. You're off on a bit of a tangent. Unless of course that's what others were talking about. I can't comment on that, I didn't read through all of the posts in this thread so your final statement could in some ways be true.
My own point was this is a site about gaming, not about guilds. I could see if this were an article about some huge gaming event that guild sponsored, something along that line. But it gets to be a bit much. I don't particularly care who's in the guild, how long they've been around, or if they get to play games before the rest of us do. I'm not that shallow. But there's a very distinct amount of favoritism displayed towards the guild which is disappointing.
If they want to talk about guilds, talk about guilds. There are other guilds that have been around a while, others that have done interesting things, etc. But while they're at it, I hope they put that in a separate section. I don't want to read about them, either.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Pardon?
I have been 'involved' in mmos as both a cross game guild leader and as someone who has been involved with guilds which have lasted longer than most mmos do. I'd like to think I am relatively 'familiar' with the industry in general but I fail to see exactly what that has to do with people having zero interest in what is essentially a beta testing guild...
It's great that they have lasted so long and that they get involved in beta testing, but for me, that's about as news worthy as, well it's not even worth an anecdote put it that way.
This thread may indeed have said alot about some of the readers here, they are more interested in reading about a guild that is actively dominating/doing something major in an mmo now, in the here and present, then about seeing repeat, throwaway articles about a guild that most don't seem to have actually seen ig at any point.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
The lawsuit over "Sun" as well. Not "Sun Microsystems" just "Sun", had they won, would that have covered "Son" as well?
Much more recently is Apple trying to copyright "App Store" and suing the various mega and minor companies using "App store", "Appstore" and "Apps store" when anyone on the interwebz before facebook know that "App store" has been used on thousands on websites, since shortly after the first software was sold on the internet.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Well this one... They listed pretty much every other april fools joke in the mmo genre... the other one.. well let's see... a major MMORPG site + a major MMO guild (with precens in several games) = A opening for interesting articles. But not without some buttering.
Or what do you thing...
This have been a good conversation
I want to focus on that line specifically.This is MMORPG.com. The posters very often and very avidly discuss how MMOs need renewed emphasis on social interaction. They also discuss development and design mechanics very extensively. Along comes news about a guild that has a long-standing history and that has an intrinsic knowledge of the very topics these forums are always abuzz about. Instead of using this opportunity to engage members of The Syndicate in conversation or discuss any related topics, we see quite a few posts here rebuuking both the article writer and TS, even going as far as saying they will not come to this site anymore because news about a guild was posted.
The general contention by so many on these forums is that the social aspect of MMOs is lost, which makes it very odd to see so many posts echoing the sentiments in that one statement I bolded above. MMOs are as much about the members of their community as they are about the code and mechanics that run in the background.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm not sure that being "influential in the development of several games" through the conceptual, alpha, beta, and release phases is really anything to brag about since one of the problems in the MMO community is the stale drivel and drool.
You're taking credit for the influence, are you taking equal blame for the lack of innovation? Have you never told a company "Guys, there's no reason a player would leave their bank time-invested characters on [x similar games]"? If you have told them that, then your influence is not nearly what you think it is because they are not listening.
Have you never told a company that the game was good but had too many bugs and needed at least 3 or 6 more months to work these programmatatic and interaction bugs out and to test how the fixes influence the system? Because if you have, they aren't listening to you more than they are any of us.
If you were involved in DC Universe (I didn't see a list of games you helped test, I understand NDAs may and probably would restrict you from mentioning them), did you tell them the game was boring at cap like every gamer it seems, seems to think?
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
well it is like tha age old joke...
Sure i want more prisons... they are good... But not here in my backyard.
" I'm not sure that being "influential in the development of several games" through the conceptual, alpha, beta, and release phases is really anything to brag about since one of the problems in the MMO community is the stale drivel and drool.
You're taking credit for the influence, are you taking equal blame for the lack of innovation? Have you never told a company "Guys, there's no reason a player would leave their bank time-invested characters on [x similar games]"? If you have told them that, then your influence is not nearly what you think it is because they are not listening.
Have you never told a company that the game was good but had too many bugs and needed at least 3 or 6 more months to work these programmatatic and interaction bugs out and to test how the fixes influence the system? Because if you have, they aren't listening to you more than they are any of us. "
You don't live much in the real world do you.... If this is your view of the reality, i realy woudl like to live in your world... Here in reality things are not that black and white.. you work within the system.. within the limits you have and make the best of what you get... You can not turn a Old Volvo in to a Ferrari... But you can turn it in to a pretty awsome Volvo. And in such a scenario it is better to try and make the volvo then to throw your arms in the air and say.. Ferrari or bust. That is how it goes down in the real world,
This have been a good conversation
Hmm. I don't know what's up with the personal attacks, but on to your points...
All I meant, and I gave a few examples is we all know, as is frequently discussed, there is a serious lack of innovation in the MMO industry. AAA stuff is mindnumbingly the same with little change in the better part of a decade.
They imply some higher relation with developers than your typical alpha or beta tester. But we're not seeing the results of a guild "of the communnity" communicating with developers. We see the same drivel and stale drool, or something so far way off base (FFXIV) or something released way too eary (DCUO). If I had the developer's ear, and considered my opinion to matter I'd:
I'd've told RIFT to bring build in quality voice chat. This is a feature that the market they are are after desires. I'd've told them that first impressions matter a great deal and they could do a lot for their game by making the UI feel different. CoH (I've only played a trial) has a UI that does most of the same things RIFT's does but different placement and different design furthers its distinction as different from a lot of other games.
I'd've told SE that FFXI was great and level-sync was great. I'd've told them 14 is terrible and you just can't limit the amount a player can do in a week and expect hardcores or even heavier casuals to maintain an interest. Complicated menus or lagging menu interaction? This just cannot happen. There's nothing more frustrating than the connection really being at fault for why you died.
It's pretty clear what DCUO should have done.
I'd tell all these games that PVP is a great and fun and worthwhile experience but promising balance of PVE abilities in a PVP environment is a really bad idea. The Holy Trinity is a large part of the reason, probably that PVE clashes so badly with PVP.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
To dismiss a group like TS because your ideas of a better world did not come to fruitation is not a clear case that no-one is listening... The point i tried to get across.. that most people today seems to miss is that during development 4/5 of all good ideas get scrapped in one way or another... in the ned it all comes down to cost/return... What a team like TS can do for a company.. as they stated is to clarify if the assesment is correct without haiving to rely on people who have nothing but a moral obligation to protect the company or it's assets.
When they speak of being on the inside and having the developers ear...it is not like they can dictate how the game developes.. they can make suggestions and you can be very much sure that the company listen more to them then you or me.
So your intital asumption that they are not "in the loop" because they do not get what you consider the right things done.
But if i may be soo bold and make an asumption of my own... I asume games could have been a lot worse if they had not been there...
We will never know as time saddly is linear at this time and age.
This have been a good conversation
If some of the wilder LHC theories succeed, maybe we can send Sony a few quantum whispers
.
I'm not sure most of the big release games could be much worse because they're just rehashing the same thing. It's hard to copy wrong, unless TS was involved in the inovations*** WoW made.
It's funny, when I saw Syndicate post yesterday I saw they signed up in like Jan 04, so I looked at their posting history, and their first or second post is defending the ill press they still have to this day.
*** I strictly mean by streamlining and getting rid of some of the job-feel that previous mmo's had. Of course WoW, previous MMOs and later-releases came to feel like a job in a different way.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Now that I think about it, I'm wondering what the demographics of TS might be to have garnered this kind of uncharacteristic lavishment of access and privelege, not just by game developers but by game media.
It would be interesting to note the following:
Gender
Age
Race
Real World profession
Real World Salary.
Perhaps then we would see the bias in this industry toward one group over another, and why the genre has really failed to move forward in innovation and design.
Just did this. I advise everyone else to do it, too. Every single post has been "We don't post here often but we've came to defend ourselves from baseless accusations."
The past seven years have had "baseless accusations" levelled at them. There's no smoke without fire, guys.
Add me on Steam!
Me and a Friend are Bad At Games
hey my wife is the guildmaster of almost 600 people on WoW. does this mean we can start running news stories on what they do? Cause they are bigger than The Syndicate, And that's only one game.
And back in Ultima IV me and a buddy formed a lore guild named "16th street", we never broke the guild up (just him and I) does this mean I can send letters to The Syndicate telling them to no longer claim they are the oldest??
Jesus, I ONLY hear about The Syndicate from stupid crap like this. I've played since 1997 and NEVER ONCE seen them in ANY game.
They are the Paris Hilton of MMOs, they claim they are the best at what they do... Yet they have never done anything... Yet they are famous for being famous.
This ^^^
Just when you think this site cant lower its "standards" any further......