No offense to Lepidus, who's doing a job as best you can, but SOE is really blowing sunshine up your butt. I've cancelled, but still have until June 9th, so I check in from time to time to say my goodbyes. And SWG is a ghost-town, on Ahazi server anyway, which used to be one of if not the most crowded and fun. I believe SOE is losing millions. The CU is a disaster. There are the kernels of some good ideas, but so under-developed and poorly balanced.
SOE will not admit their blunder. Correspondents are getting replaced, developers are leaving. In a few months, see if they don't consolidate some servers quietly.
What a shame. My only hope is that one day soon LucasArts rips the license away from Sony and does the game themselves - their developers seem far more competent.
I have played this game since it came out. It started where you could solo, but not super easily. Then they changed it to the point that you could become buffed and just sit in your back yard barbecuing while your toon was almost invulnerable. Now after the recent combat upgrade Soe has decided to make their game like EQ. Now you must have a group to actually hunt, and its really hard to make xp unless you are in just the right situation. I think it was good that they took out the holo grind, but it is still ridiculous what they have done with the game. If they wanted this game to flourish, give the players an ability to solo, as in WOW. Because of episode III there has been a big surge in players starting up and coming back. SWG has one major strongpoint, and that is its STAR WARS. If it wasn't star wars, no one would play, because this game is so poorly made. Nothing flows. Because of the $30 full experience box they came out with they have found lots of people willing to try it. But, after the Star Wars exitinment from episode III dies out , they will find lots of people droppping their subscriptions left and right. Soe needs to stop nerfing everything on SWG, they need to make the game fun, give soloing opportunities and give the game some stability. I hope that eventually they will find out what is going on, and make the game unique, but still fun. May the force be with them, cuz god knows they have not been using it thus far.
Show me a game where i can pilot a starship and walk into a bar for a drink and ill go play it.The CU isnt bad at all.This is the way it should have been from day one.Most players are just mad that they cant solo a whole lot anymore and cant accept having to change tactics.
Go play WoW for a month like i did and you will be right back here.
SWG still has more depth and immersion than any mmo on the market.Between SWG,EvE and CoH this genre needs a kick in the pants badly.PvP is going to be making a comeback in the next year or so with a few releases as well.
Change is good for everyone.The old combat system was going to doom SWG to no end.The new one is good for the game.Once you come back i suggest you start a new character to get a grasp of the new combat style.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Originally posted by kinglog123 ok what im about to say will probably make ppl mad or pissed whatever though I believe that the only people that dont like the CU are the TKM composite armor clones that used to be able to kill anything and now that you cant kill everything that comes in your path your pissed. Well ya know what the CU was for the better and i for one love the new system Now im not saying the cu is perfect... hell far from it with all the bugs and stuff but it was for the better and it balances it out alot better then the old combat system when you had to be a tkm or jedi just to be good. When any online game comes out it always has bugs theres no doubt about it you gotta be patient and wait for the bugs to get fixed. And also i like it because it makes you group hell before cu you could solo rancor... which is unbelievable and impossible.If you wanna live the starwars experiance now is your chance now it makes it more "realistic" and if you have friends which i hope everyone does it makes this game even more enjoyable because you do need to group now and the emphasis is streched on grouping. So with this up in grouping it makes the community more enjoyable. IM EXTREAMLY HAPPY THAT THEY GOT RID OF UBER BUFFS!!! People complain- "oh boo hoo the community is gone places such as cornet that used to be a bustling city are now gone" .. The only freaking reason it was bustling was because everyone and there grandmothers where there to get the uber buffs. Plus im glad all those people left because of cu i dont need the TKM Uber leet master composite clones crying cuz i killed them with my Master bounty hunter/ Master carbineer toon because of the blance that took place from the CU. There is one thing i do hate about the CU - There is hardly any non-combat classes anymore... its way to hard to find a doctor now if you need your wounds healed and its hard to find any architects or anything to that standard so its hard to buy items now. And the economy is fu**ed up over 1 mill for a suit of armor is unbelievable. My final thought - i love the new cu it was long needed and it is a great addition but we need to give another month or so to let the devs fix the bugs. Another fix needed would be the fix of non-combat classes and the economy needs a serious upgrade
Like I posted previously, I have seen plenty of players who could solo any jedi and any TKM and rip them a new a-hole. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE GAME AND HOW TO PLAY!!!!! I serousily doubt that you had done any serious PVP'ing because you're sitting here crying about how other professions were uber. Infact, your post specifically tells me you were one of those corpses I stomped across in my travels. My char got whipped plenty of times and I never cried to the DEVS or CSR about how unfair it was. Not only did SOE ruin the game but people, like you?, who cried to SOE everytime their ass was handed to them.
The game and economy survive from a strong community nimrod. Thats why Docs buffed, Entertainers entertained. A starport is where people gathered not only to get buffed, but to socialize, form groups, trade, etc etc. Evidently you're too young or immature to understand the concept of the game.
SOME PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE TO GROUP. That make sense to you? The CU forces people to do things they may not want to do. SWG is a game. There are alot of unrealistic things to the game. To make it realistic is impossible. For you to rant on about people crying, you'd better get the Visine out and clear the red-eyes you have. In my experience, the only people who enjoy the CU are the people who couldn't learn the game and it's concepts before the CU and the 8 year olds who just saw Episode III. No offense to 8 year olds.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
Its just lately I have read so much of how SOE feels things are by them and LucasArts and very little actually anwering to the fact that they may have made a few mistakes along the way that my head is just read to pop. I am not against the CU, but I do think SOE and LA made some rather bad mistakes and can't even admit them, not just once. All I want is alittle honesty from them, just a tiny bit. I understand as a business they have to keep face, but just give me alittle tiny bit of love. Hell right now if they told me "We don't care what you like, we are doing it this way. Deal with it!" I would feel better then I do right now with all these feel good we are so proud of the CU articles I am getting fed one after the other. ... Am I really asking too much as a consumer and fan?
Honestly, yes. I guess you've never really had any experience dealing with public opinion, because the things that would fly between friends will end up murdering you in the public arena. I know what you want - you want some sort of assurance that everything is going to be okay. I think it is. I've had more fun playing SWG in the past couple weeks than ever before. However, SOE can't say that because it will just end up being fodder for the pissed off folks. You have to understand that nothing SOE can say or do at this point - even reverting to the system before the CU - can save them in the eyes of some very vocal people. The thread in the forums where they announced the multipassenger vehicles turned into a flame war because we got new and long wanted content rather than fixing bugs. Honestly, all they can do is wait it out because everything they say, no matter how little, will just be used against them tenfold.
If they admit a mistake, that just throws gas on the fire as now people will have some sort of official backing for their beliefs - no matter how twisted or misguided they may be. Suddenly, the CU doesn't just suck in their eyes, the Devs admitted it and you'd have to be a complete fool to disagree with evidence like that. If they say, mistake or not, sit down and shut up because this is how we're going to do it, you'll have a bunch of players getting upset at their arrogance and not listening to the customer base. Frankly, saying nothing will result in the vocal minority getting frustrated and leaving sooner when they don't get the attention they need. SOE is handling this situation the only way they can, and though it frustrates people, it is the approach that will lead to a happy equilibrium quickest.
One of the things I've always liked about SWG is that the developers have been really open about the development process, and indeed have tried to involve the players as much as possible - even when it wasn't feasible. This has perhaps been their biggest downfall as it frustrates players who are used to getting their way, as well as frustrates those who get excited about an in development idea that doesn't come out quite like they were expecting (or worse, getting cancelled). They told us about the Smuggler Revamp that they wanted to do, and I have no doubt that they did and still do want to work on it. But priorities are priorities, and the CU (which affects Smugglers) took precedence over a single class. And yet, I still see people complaining that there has yet to be a Smuggler Revamp - completely ignoring all the other new features and bugfixes that SOE has managed while still pumping out both a CU and an expansion pack. If they had never mentioned a Smuggler Revamp, there'd be nothing to complain about. I've seen docs on the new slicing mini-game they're working on, so I expect that the Smuggler Revamp may not be too far away - but patience can be so difficult when we want something so intensely.
SOE is learning the hard way how that kind of openness with the players can bite them in the ass hard. I've been on other MMORPGs, like WoW, where the developers never announced anything, responded to any of the complaints of the playerbase, or said "hey, we're working on it" - and I found the lack of information to be far more frustrating than SOE having to say, "we wanted to do this, but it wasn't as feasible as we suspected". I think SOE is brave for being so open, and I applaud them. As both an ex-game developer and now someone who has to deal with a bloodthirsty public on a daily basis, I not only understand what they are going through, but I am filled with empathy at their plight. They suffer the worst attacks and insults I've seen in a long time, and for a game they obviously believe in and want to make better in the most sincere way possible. I've yet to see another developer who cared more than these guys, and it really gives me faith that everything's going to turn out right. I don't think you guys appreciate how deeply the wounds you cut go. It's been a war against the morale of the devs for months now, and the onslaught has lessened but not disappeared. Were they the developers you guys think they are, they wouldn't be working weekends to fix bugs and add new features to the game. I know I wouldn't. I'd tell all you ungrateful bastard to go fuck yourself, but they haven't and they won't.
Mistakes were made, but they made the right decisions where it mattered most - even though they had to step on some toes to do it. They aren't perfect, but they do what has to be done. The SWG of today is almost nothing like the SWG that was first released - it's better. And it will keep getting better, not because they developers are falling just short of expectations, but because they are aiming for them in the first place. Just have a little patience and go a little easier on the devs. SWG has never been in a better place.
I can understand the numbers and believe that what they said to be correct. When the CU got implemented a mass of players left the game, when the RoTW expansion and the Total Experience were released, they had an influx of players joining the game. The problem that SOE/LA have is that they essentially cancelled each other out.
What would be worrying me though if I was a producer of the game is that as a result of the combined effects of the CU and the expansion, the number of subscribers has essentially plateau'd at a time when the release of Ep3 should of seen a rather large overall net gain. With nothing really new on the horizon in the way of expansions aside from maybe a new adventure planet or two, and without the marketing power that a new SW film can give the game, its hard to imagine a further growth in numbers of the type that the game so desperately needs to remain viable.
To me, the opportunities that the release of Ep3 gave SOE and LA have been completely blown away by the botched implementation of the CU. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for the game and now its gone. Its really hard to see what SOE/LA can come up with now to bring more players into the game. They effectively burnt a large portion of their veteran player base so I wouldn't go banking on those numbers, but I guess wishful thinking on SOE/LAs part has these players coming back at some future date.
As a veteran I played the old game and the CU, and whilst I experienced the inherent problems with the old game and could see the need for change, the changes that they made were not the best they could of done. But at the end of the day, lots of aspects of the new game just don't do it for me - and to be honest I doubt that they ever will. And because of that in all likelyhood I wont be back.
In terms of the existing player numbers, If you were to graph the subscription rates to this game over time, my guess is that it will show a slow and progressive bleed off with a few bumps and blips, but the overall trend is downwards.
It'll be interesting to see though how many of the new players play beyond their initial 1, 2 or 3 month subscription period. That will be when the crud starts hitting the fan as far as the player base numbers are concerned.
My final thought - i love the new cu it was long needed and it is a great addition but we need to give another month or so to let the devs fix the bugs. Another fix needed would be the fix of non-combat classes and the economy needs a serious upgrade
They will fix the non-combat classes. They will eliminate them. All items will be handled by NPC vendors. I can see no way to make pure crafting classes feasable with the current combat system. Ninety-nine percent of the universe is unavailable to pure crafters. The old system had crafters relying on combat classes for creature resourses and loot, while the combat classes depended on the crafters for weapons, armor and enhancements. The CU eliminates the interdependence. The logical answer is to eliminate crafting or at least remove any value in it and offer the crafters a respec to combat. They never made crafting of any value in EverQuest and since the CU was lifted almost directly from EQ, it only make sense to finish off the conversion.
PS To those that claim the only ones that hate the CU are former uber TKM's. I have never been a master in any combat profession and I am still going to cancel my account when the prepay has expired.
PPS Although I disagree with points of the article, it was very well written and I appreciate the work the author put into writing it, and their attempt to inform MMORPG.com's readers.
Originally posted by Stuman I can understand the numbers and believe that what they said to be correct. When the CU got implemented a mass of players left the game, when the RoTW expansion and the Total Experience were released, they had an influx of players joining the game. The problem that SOE/LA have is that they essentially cancelled each other out. What would be worrying me though if I was a producer of the game is that as a result of the combined effects of the CU and the expansion, the number of subscribers has essentially plateau'd at a time when the release of Ep3 should of seen a rather large overall net gain. With nothing really new on the horizon in the way of expansions aside from maybe a new adventure planet or two, and without the marketing power that a new SW film can give the game, its hard to imagine a further growth in numbers of the type that the game so desperately needs to remain viable. To me, the opportunities that the release of Ep3 gave SOE and LA have been completely blown away by the botched implementation of the CU. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for the game and now its gone. Its really hard to see what SOE/LA can come up with now to bring more players into the game. They effectively burnt a large portion of their veteran player base so I wouldn't go banking on those numbers, but I guess wishful thinking on SOE/LAs part has these players coming back at some future date. As a veteran I played the old game and the CU, and whilst I experienced the inherent problems with the old game and could see the need for change, the changes that they made were not the best they could of done. But at the end of the day, lots of aspects of the new game just don't do it for me - and to be honest I doubt that they ever will. And because of that in all likelyhood I wont be back. In terms of the existing player numbers, If you were to graph the subscription rates to this game over time, my guess is that it will show a slow and progressive bleed off with a few bumps and blips, but the overall trend is downwards. It'll be interesting to see though how many of the new players play beyond their initial 1, 2 or 3 month subscription period. That will be when the crud starts hitting the fan as far as the player base numbers are concerned.
Well put Stuman. I agree 100%. A plaque, a new planet, a mulitplayer vehicle cannot begin to make up for the mistakes made. Multiplayer vehicle?!!!! Give me a break. There's hardly anyone left to ride in it with me. LMAO OMG For those who like it and aren't bashing the vets, I am actually happy for them. It's the bashers that get me worked up. Does anyone know if SOE has the means of creating a few pre-CU servers? Does it take that much effort to, maybe, bring back former subscribers and make mo' money? I've tried to think like SOE but I get dizzy and almost pass out from hallucinations.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
Originally posted by kinglog123 My final thought - i love the new cu it was long needed and it is a great addition but we need to give another month or so to let the devs fix the bugs. Another fix needed would be the fix of non-combat classes and the economy needs a serious upgrade
They will fix the non-combat classes. They will eliminate them. All items will be handled by NPC vendors. I can see no way to make pure crafting classes feasable with the current combat system. Ninety-nine percent of the universe is unavailable to pure crafters. The old system had crafters relying on combat classes for creature resourses and loot, while the combat classes depended on the crafters for weapons, armor and enhancements. The CU eliminates the interdependence. The logical answer is to eliminate crafting or at least remove any value in it and offer the crafters a respec to combat. They never made crafting of any value in EverQuest and since the CU was lifted almost directly from EQ, it only make sense to finish off the conversion.
PS To those that claim the only ones that hate the CU are former uber TKM's. I have never been a master in any combat profession and I am still going to cancel my account when the prepay has expired.
PPS Although I disagree with points of the article, it was very well written and I appreciate the work the author put into writing it, and their attempt to inform MMORPG.com's readers.
Well said Wudu. And I believe what you say to be very possible. Makes sense. I talked to one of my former SWG guild members and we discussed the same thing. I told him that I miss the game so much, I was willing to go back and be a crafter of some sort but SOE has nerfed those professions as well.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
"The Star Wars Galaxies team admitted that at first they thought they would see a large negative impact on subscriber levels, but as time passed things evened out and now they claim that subscription levels are virtually unchanged from where they were before the changes."
Now that is some interesting accouting, I have to tell you. The release of Revenge of the Sith, and SOE's ad campaign for the game to coincide with it, should have resulted in a marked increase in subscribers. If instead the subscriber levels are what they were just before the CU, then this means that neither the movie or the ads boosted their subscriptions.
What has actually happened is that the new subscriptions resulting from the film and the ad campaign were barely able to compensate them for their losses.
Only SOE could spin that as a success.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
SOEs attempt to make everyone happy with double XP? Hmm my lvl 80 toon gets 1 xp from anything less then 80 whats the damn use of playing? All my freinds have quit and I like doing my own hunting, not what a bunch of now little kids want to do since everyones been forced to group hunt now. Stop the EQ2 clone and bring it back to the way things were and fix that system.
Originally posted by BillTanner Wow. No offense to Lepidus, who's doing a job as best you can, but SOE is really blowing sunshine up your butt. I've cancelled, but still have until June 9th, so I check in from time to time to say my goodbyes. And SWG is a ghost-town, on Ahazi server anyway, which used to be one of if not the most crowded and fun. I believe SOE is losing millions. The CU is a disaster. There are the kernels of some good ideas, but so under-developed and poorly balanced.SOE will not admit their blunder. Correspondents are getting replaced, developers are leaving. In a few months, see if they don't consolidate some servers quietly. What a shame. My only hope is that one day soon LucasArts rips the license away from Sony and does the game themselves - their developers seem far more competent.
What the HECK are you talking about? Ahazi is PACKED. Walk into Coronet or Mos Eisley. There are tons of people running around.
Everyone is going on about SOE this and that but thay seem to be forgetting something.
When SWG was being made I was playing EQ and remember reading a post that said Sony was to make SWG under licence to LA, in short Sony works for LA on this project and are contracted to make the game and two exspansion before LA take over.
Now i'm not trying to defend SOE for this crap thay call SWG, BUT thay were told by LA to go "live" with the CU even though thay knew it was not ready and from what I have read thay were even told by LA to reduce the amount of active Jedi conciderable.
In makeing the CU, SOE have made it currently impossible for novice Jedi to increase there ability becuse if you are a lvl80 combat proffesion than your jedi has to fight at that lvl inorder to gain experiance unless respec down.
This was a good game, in fact I would go as far as saying it was the best that was out there and SWG had a very loyal fan base, now SOE who have had great success with the first EQ nows how to run a on-line game ( given thay had to buy out Varent to learn it) but given who thay are partnered with this time it makes me wonder weather LA should stick to makeing standard PC games and leave the on-line stuff to people who know what thay are doing.
LA protects Star Wars as if it was the Holy Grail itself and you can under stand that if you look at other titles LA has made which IMO have been total crap, now SWG as not perfect but it worked and it was fun and had a little thing called playabilite, remember that word, PLAYABILITE wich is something now missing.
Before I closed my 2 accounts my guild went on a mission to the Death Watch Bunker ( group limited to 8 people now under CU) and we were all lvl 80's and we were all killed before we had even managed to kill one Battle Droid, cos under the CU we were slower and could only handle one mob at a time but the NPC's would still attack in force and had ALL be set to a combat lvl that conned red to a lvl80, fair enough it happened, no harm, no foul.
But LA and Sony have taken a big crap on its Vets, LA has cos it dont give a crap what us "Little" people and Sony cos thay had the muscle to say no to LA but instead thay gave it to us all up the rear end.
In conclusion, I dont realy care if thay go back to the old system or not, and given SOE have already said thay wont any arguement on that subject is closed, I personly will play something else till D&D online or even Middle Earth online finaly go lives.
So SOE/LA you can do as you please with SWG cos i'm going to give my money to someone else and it will be a long,long time before I even concider going back to a Sony or a LA title again.
PS/ Oh, and on the original post on this thread from the E3, Who care if sertain questions was not asked or answered, at least the person as good enough to put the post up in the first place.
I will admit it is funny to see SoE telling peoples they are doing as good as they where doing before the CU, usually a company dont try to do as good, but they try to do better and get more. If you dont move to offense and remain always defensive, eventually you meet defeat.
I wish SWG all the best they can do, however, I will never even try it. I didnt like some initial stuff, they change it and I like even less what I am reading now. For me Star Wars was always a game I play when I am solo...I would not mind grouping in Star Wars, actually might prefer it...but it sound like having to much EQ2ish influence, raiding might be implemented soon! Staying clear!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am a SWG refugee, I've heard and said all the rants and bashes. I am biased and I hate SOE. Everyone can go check www.mmogchart.com in July to get the may and june numbers for SOE's subscriber base. Ironically enough, from what I've seen on these charts, none of SOE's games ever came close to competing with NCSoft's games. SOE has been skirting the fringe for many a moon now. This CU probably won't end the last chapter in SOE's existance as a competitive company, but the failure of EQ2 coupled with the dropping numbers in EQ subscriptions just may. This will then take a large rock from the road and smooth the path for companies who know what players want and are willing to listen their opinions.
Squidi, you really think SOE is a great company for practicing business like it does? It openly oppresses anyone who speaks out against their changes, and it lies to its community, AND YOU FIND THAT BRAVE? I can't even comprehend how you could feel this way, seriously, its rediculous. You respect them for shutting vocal members up about changes they don't like within the game, thats like respecting Hitler for killing anyone who spoke up against killing Jewish people. I mean seriously, I can't see how anyone could think the way you do about SOE right now, unless you have totally been paid off. Don't feel bad because people bad mouth SOE, its a gigantic company, and the words of a 30 something year old man who makes 50k a year living in Nevada don't really bother SOE.
It's not that CU worked. It was shoved down player's throats, and when we saw that nothing we said to SoE worked, we moved on. For the guy who loves the CU, he must group fight A LOT! Soloing has been totally eliminated in the game unless you want no experience. I have a spouse who makes the food buffs and even he has lost all the enjoyment in the game. He is looking for a new game to play.
SWG had a fabulous crafting system and was a fun game for people no matter what time they played. I am not the traditional in the US American player and I am very choosy who I group with as I really hate dying. I tried SWG for about a week after the CU came out. I tried reworking my character and finally gave up. I know many friends who quit too.
As I have said before, SoE put too much into this and had they done it gradually it would have maybe worked better. They banked their money on the new influx from RotS and people who were obviously BH who complained that they couldn't kill a Jedi. I really wanted the CU to work and I really hated the nay saying before the upgrade went in (They changed so much that COMBAT upgrade is not appropriate). After it went in, I feel that they were right. If I seem upset, it was because I had just started the Village quests when the CU went in and as big of a SW (saw it with my Dad in 1977) and Jedi fan I am, I will never know what it was like to run a Jedi.
Originally posted by Ettiave Originally posted by BillTanner Wow. No offense to Lepidus, who's doing a job as best you can, but SOE is really blowing sunshine up your butt. I've cancelled, but still have until June 9th, so I check in from time to time to say my goodbyes. And SWG is a ghost-town, on Ahazi server anyway, which used to be one of if not the most crowded and fun. I believe SOE is losing millions. The CU is a disaster. There are the kernels of some good ideas, but so under-developed and poorly balanced.SOE will not admit their blunder. Correspondents are getting replaced, developers are leaving. In a few months, see if they don't consolidate some servers quietly. What a shame. My only hope is that one day soon LucasArts rips the license away from Sony and does the game themselves - their developers seem far more competent.
What the HECK are you talking about? Ahazi is PACKED. Walk into Coronet or Mos Eisley. There are tons of people running around.
Umm, those are starter cities. Of course they are crowded (but nothing like they used to be). Try getting out to places like Talus or Yavin and see how empty it is. Duh.
Originally posted by Semaj Squidi, you really think SOE is a great company for practicing business like it does? It openly oppresses anyone who speaks out against their changes, and it lies to its community, AND YOU FIND THAT BRAVE? I can't even comprehend how you could feel this way, seriously, its rediculous. You respect them for shutting vocal members up about changes they don't like within the game, thats like respecting Hitler for killing anyone who spoke up against killing Jewish people. I mean seriously, I can't see how anyone could think the way you do about SOE right now, unless you have totally been paid off. Don't feel bad because people bad mouth SOE, its a gigantic company, and the words of a 30 something year old man who makes 50k a year living in Nevada don't really bother SOE.
SOE is a big company, but the people who work there are not. Like I said, I've been a game developer, and I know that those guys care what is said about the game - maybe not from one guy, but when there is overwhelming descent, it can be quite damaging to morale. Working in the game industry is all about morale. It's what gets you through the 80 hour weeks, working holidays, and never seeing your family.
I mean, come on. You are a presumably educated man. What are the chances that SOE is going to change back from the CU? You and I both know that it is done and over with. So why the vocal complaining? Because you want to be heard. You want to reach out to the developers who ruined the game you love and you want to hurt them back, no matter how little. I've read more than enough anti-CU posts that were nothing more than petty attacks based on intense anger, and hardly a rational understanding of why they did it, why they can't do what you want them to, and why being a jerk about it won't change a damn thing. It sounds cliched, but if you don't like the CU, the best thing you can do, in complete and total honesty, is to leave the game. Being a turd won't change a thing. It won't even make you feel better.
As for the first part of your post, I respect how open SOE has been with the playerbase. The CU wasn't just sprung on us. They talked a great deal about it, even a year before they started working on it. They released several of the design documents, completely outlining the specific changes and ideas surrounding the CU - and even gave everyone a chance to comment on it. At that point, they couldn't change the foundation of the CU, but they did make significant changes, like including Scout/Ranger as a combat class, allowing them to wear armor and benefit from the HP and combat benefits of a higher CU level. Despite a rather hurried deadline, they gave us ALL a chance to test out the CU, rather than going through private betas - and many folks used the opportunity to /bug important game breaking bugs that were actually fixed before it went live. It could've used more time in the oven, sure, but I won't pretend that the testing phase was completely worthless, and I certainly didn't use Test Center as my bug ridden first and only impression of the CU - but many people did.
What you are talking about is not business practice. It's policing. It's maintaining order. You say that people were banned for voicing their opinions? That's not the whole story. In most cases, these were individuals who were presenting rational and well thought out responses. They were spamming the forums and inciting riots. I know one guy got banned because he posted a LucasArts email for people to spam. As someone who's been the victim of such a thing, I know damn well that the emails that went to that email address were not helpful. I'm guessing that email address got swamped in spam, even signed up for a few porn mailing lists. Then there were a bunch of people which staged an anti-CU protest in Theed, crashing the server and ruining the experience of the other players who weren't protesting - despite a quite clear warning before hand saying that if they went through with it, they would be banned as per a rather specific policy SOE has, which exists not to shut people up, but to prevent them from intentionally crashing the servers.
The fact is, anti-CU people were, for the most part, rabid and riotous. SOE needed to keep order, both in their forums and in the game. Their first attempts weren't excessive at all, but it was a digital riot and they needed to use tear gas to quell it. They took down the people who either crossed the line or encouraged others to do it for them. They took down those who ignored warnings and those who ignored the rules. They took down who they had to for the purpose of keeping order - and it did. I don't know enough about who and what happened in every single case. It's possible SOE did get a little slap happy (do you blame them? Turn the other cheek my ass - they've got the power to slap back). But I know, as I'm sure you do to, that there was no way to keep order without stepping on toes. The question is merely if they stepped on too many or on the right ones.
And why do you suggest that I've been paid off? Do you have any idea how much SOE would have to dish out to pay off all the people that you anti-CU guys suggest they do? Who the hell am I? Some guy. Why would they pay me anything? How do I benefit AT ALL from defending them? The fact of the matter is I don't benefit. You only wish to imply that I do to discredit what I've said in defense of the CU, and that's just pure bullshit bully tactics. I say I like the CU and I get insulted and flamed. But I like the CU. I like it a lot. I think it's the best thing to happen to SWG and I hope they implement equally wide spread changes to the other broken parts of the game. I'm stating my pre-CU opinion only because you guys threaten and attack anyone who shares it, and I don't care for such strong armed approaches to getting your way. You want to bully the CU supporters, that's fine. But I'm not going to sit here and take it, and I can write posts that dwarf yours, that are far better constructed and communicated (see how I managed to make it through a lengthy post without comparing anybody to Hitler?). In the world of internet arguments, my sword is much sharper than yours.
If we want to talk about SOE and the CU, we'll do it through facts and rational discussion - NOT through hyperbolic smear campaigns. Throw those argumental fallacies and misplaced blame out the window and let's discuss the CU for real. Let's start. I like it because I started over. I didn't start this new system at max level. I didn't lose the stuff that took years to accumulate. I lost nothing and gained everything the CU had to offer. Taken on it's own, the CU is a much better combat system than what previously existed.
I'm glad you wanted to start over. Many of us don't want to start over....especially like me, who were finally getting to the Jedi class. Maybe you think it's great at "low levels" but who in their right mind wants to play a low level character all their life? How many times can you see the same missions over and over and over again? Is doing the Rebel Mission more exciting the second or third time around? I have seen Jabba's Palace with three different characters. I finally found one I really wanted to be Jedi and poof, SOE says, "We have changed all the rules. Start again at the beginning." Come on...if that's the case, then maybe they should have just wiped the player database and made everyone start over.
For your information, my spouse was making money like crazy before he quit because people wanted chef food and he was Master Chef, however, it was impossible for him to get his character from place to place to get resources with no armor. We haven't touched how they made it impossible not to get attacked outside of a mercant's tent on Dantooine. Not everyone was a combat class. This isn't EQ2 where everyone can be a crafter without giving up any of the combat abilities. The problem with the upgrade is that it is EQ2 combat which is set up different. There you have solo encounters and group encounters. Both are clearly marked. Not so in SWG. Doing crafting only? You don't have to leave the comfort of your free room at the inn except to go to the crafting hall. There's no wandering from planet to planet, some of which are deadly. I'm not even getting into PvP since there is none (yet) in EQ2.
Let's face it, SOE tried to save a buck by taking an existing engine and pushed and shoved to make it fit. It's a square peg in a round hole. Yes, it was a year in the making with many people saying there were problems and they were unhappy. It makes you wonder what they did for a year if they used an existing engine and adapted it.
It just finally got to the point that I don't want to start another time. I don't have it in me to see Jedi loom so close like an impossible dream. Like I said, some of us moved on but that doesn't mean we wouldn't come back if there wasn't a "responsible" compromise. I am not saying "Make it like it was before...what I want is a game where when it is 2 am in the US, I can still play the game even if it has to be by myself." I really hate raids at 2 - 4 am my time (I am living in Europe right now and it is soon to be Asia and no, I don't speak fluent German or French to play with those groups)
It just seems that SOE is saying, "We don't care if we lose players. After all, SWG wasn't our money maker anyways and then we don't have to deal with LucasArts anymore." (Oh, and things that needed fixed, can SOE keep Bria from crashing once a day without warning or are they still ignoring the problem?)
It is not a matter of SOE wont fix SWG, it is that they can't fix it. The engine SWG is built on is broken and they are unable to completely fix it to avoid lag issues and some of the crashing problems. SOE has put together one of the largest teams together to re-release SWG (SWG2) in the next year or so under a completely new engine that the data base will fit into.
My irritation is, I am sure they will make the SWG community PAY for the re-release for a broken game we have been playing for a few years now, instead of just saying "we fucked up and we are trying our best to un-fuck it now".
Originally posted by JediMaya I'm glad you wanted to start over. Many of us don't want to start over....especially like me, who were finally getting to the Jedi class. Maybe you think it's great at "low levels" but who in their right mind wants to play a low level character all their life? How many times can you see the same missions over and over and over again? Is doing the Rebel Mission more exciting the second or third time around? I have seen Jabba's Palace with three different characters. I finally found one I really wanted to be Jedi and poof, SOE says, "We have changed all the rules. Start again at the beginning." Come on...if that's the case, then maybe they should have just wiped the player database and made everyone start over.
I didn't say you had to start over. I said I did. Being introduced to the system, bit by bit, really does ease the translation. Even if you start the new system at max level, you're still a novice and need to relearn pretty much everything - and the whole combat level thing may be quite foreign if you didn't spend those 80 levels learning the ins and outs of it. Chances are, you'd try to play the NEW system the same way you played the OLD system, then get frustrated that it wasn't working the same. I didn't have to go through it, but I have enough faith in the human ability to adapt to think that everyone is capable of doing it if they have to. It just might be more frustrating than fun at first, and you may not be willing to give the new system a chance.
For your information, my spouse was making money like crazy before he quit because people wanted chef food and he was Master Chef, however, it was impossible for him to get his character from place to place to get resources with no armor. We haven't touched how they made it impossible not to get attacked outside of a mercant's tent on Dantooine. Not everyone was a combat class.
It's dangerous living on the fringe. However, with the new patch, not only is it possible for anyone to use camo kits, they've also made it so grey conned mobs don't attack - and since your level is set to the highest level of the people in your group, you can see practically the entire universe at no risk by grouping with a level 80 friend. And considering how much money the crafting classes make compared to the combat ones, they can afford a camo kit and a fast vehicle just fine.
Let's face it, SOE tried to save a buck by taking an existing engine and pushed and shoved to make it fit. It's a square peg in a round hole. Yes, it was a year in the making with many people saying there were problems and they were unhappy. It makes you wonder what they did for a year if they used an existing engine and adapted it.
What the hell are you going on about? I play EQ2. Got that nifty station pass. Tried out a Froglok yesterday. SWG is NOTHING like EQ2. EQ2 has stuff like heroic opportunities, with an almost too balanced grouping system (for some content, you must have at least one of the four archtypes to succeed, no matter what), and an emphasis on magic attacks.
Meanwhile, SWG has a plethora of classes that you can mix and match together. Do you want a bounty hunter that has some pistoleer skills and some medic stuff? Do it. They changed many of the skills to be cross profession compatible, meaning that you can use a pistol skill with a rifle and vice versa. There is a much greater emphasis on ranged attacks. You get experience based on what skill you used, not just combat and trade. Only use rifles and only get better at rifles. There's only three types of armor, with only the appearances varying. The core equipment is still a majority player made.
They play completely different - unless, of course, you are talking about only the most shallow foundation that the two systems share, namely the fact that the icons have warm up timers rather than a queue and combat is based on level. In that case, you might as well call City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and Dark Age of Camelot EQ2 clones as well. They all use levels and timer based attacks, yet they all use it differently - and SWG still has way more customization, depth, and fun than any of those other games combined.
I am not saying "Make it like it was before...what I want is a game where when it is 2 am in the US, I can still play the game even if it has to be by myself."
You can. There is certain content which may be locked out to you without a large group, but you can still do plenty of stuff. For instance, at 4am today, I spent 30 minutes killing ro-roos on Kashyyyk, flying duty missions, checking my harvesters, and rearranging my space yacht. I got this really cool bantha head trophy that's bigger than I am that I just had to wedge around a corner to surprise guests. SWG has more non-combat gameplay than any other MMORPG, and that has not changed with the CU. As for the combat stuff, I've had no problems soloing, except early on before I got my first elite class and some armor.
It just seems that SOE is saying, "We don't care if we lose players. After all, SWG wasn't our money maker anyways and then we don't have to deal with LucasArts anymore."
It seems to me that they are saying "I know you are upset now, but the CU is for the future of SWG. A little pain now for a much brighter future." In fact, I think they really did say that in one of the interviews. They care if they lose players, but they are looking at the big picture. They are looking at what the game will be like in two years, not tomorrow. I recommend leaving the game for a while. Take a break and see what outside looks like. Come back when the next expansion is released, when the bugs will be less damaging, and your frustration levels will be such that you can deal with change a little more gracefully.
OUCH .... this was not an article, that was hero worship. And that is coming from one of the most active supporters of SWG and the combat revamp.
COME ON, this is SOE. Squeeze their tender bits about the errors that were made. No wonder negative comments on the forum are dying down - these threads are getting deleted and the people that cancelled their accounts are losing forum access.
Where are the questions about often pushing patches live too soon with not enough testing ?
Where are the questions about long overdue bug fixes and profession fixes (ask them about the smuggler revamp promised in autumn 2003) !?!
Lets see some journalism here, PULLEZZEEE !!!!!!!!
Comments
Wow.
No offense to Lepidus, who's doing a job as best you can, but SOE is really blowing sunshine up your butt. I've cancelled, but still have until June 9th, so I check in from time to time to say my goodbyes. And SWG is a ghost-town, on Ahazi server anyway, which used to be one of if not the most crowded and fun. I believe SOE is losing millions. The CU is a disaster. There are the kernels of some good ideas, but so under-developed and poorly balanced.
SOE will not admit their blunder. Correspondents are getting replaced, developers are leaving. In a few months, see if they don't consolidate some servers quietly.
What a shame. My only hope is that one day soon LucasArts rips the license away from Sony and does the game themselves - their developers seem far more competent.
I have played this game since it came out. It started where you could solo, but not super easily. Then they changed it to the point that you could become buffed and just sit in your back yard barbecuing while your toon was almost invulnerable. Now after the recent combat upgrade Soe has decided to make their game like EQ. Now you must have a group to actually hunt, and its really hard to make xp unless you are in just the right situation. I think it was good that they took out the holo grind, but it is still ridiculous what they have done with the game. If they wanted this game to flourish, give the players an ability to solo, as in WOW. Because of episode III there has been a big surge in players starting up and coming back. SWG has one major strongpoint, and that is its STAR WARS. If it wasn't star wars, no one would play, because this game is so poorly made. Nothing flows. Because of the $30 full experience box they came out with they have found lots of people willing to try it. But, after the Star Wars exitinment from episode III dies out , they will find lots of people droppping their subscriptions left and right. Soe needs to stop nerfing everything on SWG, they need to make the game fun, give soloing opportunities and give the game some stability. I hope that eventually they will find out what is going on, and make the game unique, but still fun. May the force be with them, cuz god knows they have not been using it thus far.
Show me a game where i can pilot a starship and walk into a bar for a drink and ill go play it.The CU isnt bad at all.This is the way it should have been from day one.Most players are just mad that they cant solo a whole lot anymore and cant accept having to change tactics.
Go play WoW for a month like i did and you will be right back here.
SWG still has more depth and immersion than any mmo on the market.Between SWG,EvE and CoH this genre needs a kick in the pants badly.PvP is going to be making a comeback in the next year or so with a few releases as well.
Change is good for everyone.The old combat system was going to doom SWG to no end.The new one is good for the game.Once you come back i suggest you start a new character to get a grasp of the new combat style.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Like I posted previously, I have seen plenty of players who could solo any jedi and any TKM and rip them a new a-hole. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE GAME AND HOW TO PLAY!!!!! I serousily doubt that you had done any serious PVP'ing because you're sitting here crying about how other professions were uber. Infact, your post specifically tells me you were one of those corpses I stomped across in my travels. My char got whipped plenty of times and I never cried to the DEVS or CSR about how unfair it was. Not only did SOE ruin the game but people, like you?, who cried to SOE everytime their ass was handed to them.
The game and economy survive from a strong community nimrod. Thats why Docs buffed, Entertainers entertained. A starport is where people gathered not only to get buffed, but to socialize, form groups, trade, etc etc. Evidently you're too young or immature to understand the concept of the game.
SOME PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE TO GROUP. That make sense to you? The CU forces people to do things they may not want to do. SWG is a game. There are alot of unrealistic things to the game. To make it realistic is impossible. For you to rant on about people crying, you'd better get the Visine out and clear the red-eyes you have. In my experience, the only people who enjoy the CU are the people who couldn't learn the game and it's concepts before the CU and the 8 year olds who just saw Episode III. No offense to 8 year olds.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
Honestly, yes. I guess you've never really had any experience dealing with public opinion, because the things that would fly between friends will end up murdering you in the public arena. I know what you want - you want some sort of assurance that everything is going to be okay. I think it is. I've had more fun playing SWG in the past couple weeks than ever before. However, SOE can't say that because it will just end up being fodder for the pissed off folks. You have to understand that nothing SOE can say or do at this point - even reverting to the system before the CU - can save them in the eyes of some very vocal people. The thread in the forums where they announced the multipassenger vehicles turned into a flame war because we got new and long wanted content rather than fixing bugs. Honestly, all they can do is wait it out because everything they say, no matter how little, will just be used against them tenfold.
If they admit a mistake, that just throws gas on the fire as now people will have some sort of official backing for their beliefs - no matter how twisted or misguided they may be. Suddenly, the CU doesn't just suck in their eyes, the Devs admitted it and you'd have to be a complete fool to disagree with evidence like that. If they say, mistake or not, sit down and shut up because this is how we're going to do it, you'll have a bunch of players getting upset at their arrogance and not listening to the customer base. Frankly, saying nothing will result in the vocal minority getting frustrated and leaving sooner when they don't get the attention they need. SOE is handling this situation the only way they can, and though it frustrates people, it is the approach that will lead to a happy equilibrium quickest.
One of the things I've always liked about SWG is that the developers have been really open about the development process, and indeed have tried to involve the players as much as possible - even when it wasn't feasible. This has perhaps been their biggest downfall as it frustrates players who are used to getting their way, as well as frustrates those who get excited about an in development idea that doesn't come out quite like they were expecting (or worse, getting cancelled). They told us about the Smuggler Revamp that they wanted to do, and I have no doubt that they did and still do want to work on it. But priorities are priorities, and the CU (which affects Smugglers) took precedence over a single class. And yet, I still see people complaining that there has yet to be a Smuggler Revamp - completely ignoring all the other new features and bugfixes that SOE has managed while still pumping out both a CU and an expansion pack. If they had never mentioned a Smuggler Revamp, there'd be nothing to complain about. I've seen docs on the new slicing mini-game they're working on, so I expect that the Smuggler Revamp may not be too far away - but patience can be so difficult when we want something so intensely.
SOE is learning the hard way how that kind of openness with the players can bite them in the ass hard. I've been on other MMORPGs, like WoW, where the developers never announced anything, responded to any of the complaints of the playerbase, or said "hey, we're working on it" - and I found the lack of information to be far more frustrating than SOE having to say, "we wanted to do this, but it wasn't as feasible as we suspected". I think SOE is brave for being so open, and I applaud them. As both an ex-game developer and now someone who has to deal with a bloodthirsty public on a daily basis, I not only understand what they are going through, but I am filled with empathy at their plight. They suffer the worst attacks and insults I've seen in a long time, and for a game they obviously believe in and want to make better in the most sincere way possible. I've yet to see another developer who cared more than these guys, and it really gives me faith that everything's going to turn out right. I don't think you guys appreciate how deeply the wounds you cut go. It's been a war against the morale of the devs for months now, and the onslaught has lessened but not disappeared. Were they the developers you guys think they are, they wouldn't be working weekends to fix bugs and add new features to the game. I know I wouldn't. I'd tell all you ungrateful bastard to go fuck yourself, but they haven't and they won't.
Mistakes were made, but they made the right decisions where it mattered most - even though they had to step on some toes to do it. They aren't perfect, but they do what has to be done. The SWG of today is almost nothing like the SWG that was first released - it's better. And it will keep getting better, not because they developers are falling just short of expectations, but because they are aiming for them in the first place. Just have a little patience and go a little easier on the devs. SWG has never been in a better place.
Squidi, I could not have said it better my self
I can understand the numbers and believe that what they said to be correct. When the CU got implemented a mass of players left the game, when the RoTW expansion and the Total Experience were released, they had an influx of players joining the game. The problem that SOE/LA have is that they essentially cancelled each other out.
What would be worrying me though if I was a producer of the game is that as a result of the combined effects of the CU and the expansion, the number of subscribers has essentially plateau'd at a time when the release of Ep3 should of seen a rather large overall net gain. With nothing really new on the horizon in the way of expansions aside from maybe a new adventure planet or two, and without the marketing power that a new SW film can give the game, its hard to imagine a further growth in numbers of the type that the game so desperately needs to remain viable.
To me, the opportunities that the release of Ep3 gave SOE and LA have been completely blown away by the botched implementation of the CU. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for the game and now its gone. Its really hard to see what SOE/LA can come up with now to bring more players into the game. They effectively burnt a large portion of their veteran player base so I wouldn't go banking on those numbers, but I guess wishful thinking on SOE/LAs part has these players coming back at some future date.
As a veteran I played the old game and the CU, and whilst I experienced the inherent problems with the old game and could see the need for change, the changes that they made were not the best they could of done. But at the end of the day, lots of aspects of the new game just don't do it for me - and to be honest I doubt that they ever will. And because of that in all likelyhood I wont be back.
In terms of the existing player numbers, If you were to graph the subscription rates to this game over time, my guess is that it will show a slow and progressive bleed off with a few bumps and blips, but the overall trend is downwards.
It'll be interesting to see though how many of the new players play beyond their initial 1, 2 or 3 month subscription period. That will be when the crud starts hitting the fan as far as the player base numbers are concerned.
They will fix the non-combat classes. They will eliminate them. All items will be handled by NPC vendors. I can see no way to make pure crafting classes feasable with the current combat system. Ninety-nine percent of the universe is unavailable to pure crafters. The old system had crafters relying on combat classes for creature resourses and loot, while the combat classes depended on the crafters for weapons, armor and enhancements. The CU eliminates the interdependence. The logical answer is to eliminate crafting or at least remove any value in it and offer the crafters a respec to combat. They never made crafting of any value in EverQuest and since the CU was lifted almost directly from EQ, it only make sense to finish off the conversion.
PS To those that claim the only ones that hate the CU are former uber TKM's. I have never been a master in any combat profession and I am still going to cancel my account when the prepay has expired.
PPS Although I disagree with points of the article, it was very well written and I appreciate the work the author put into writing it, and their attempt to inform MMORPG.com's readers.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
They will fix the non-combat classes. They will eliminate them. All items will be handled by NPC vendors. I can see no way to make pure crafting classes feasable with the current combat system. Ninety-nine percent of the universe is unavailable to pure crafters. The old system had crafters relying on combat classes for creature resourses and loot, while the combat classes depended on the crafters for weapons, armor and enhancements. The CU eliminates the interdependence. The logical answer is to eliminate crafting or at least remove any value in it and offer the crafters a respec to combat. They never made crafting of any value in EverQuest and since the CU was lifted almost directly from EQ, it only make sense to finish off the conversion.
PS To those that claim the only ones that hate the CU are former uber TKM's. I have never been a master in any combat profession and I am still going to cancel my account when the prepay has expired.
PPS Although I disagree with points of the article, it was very well written and I appreciate the work the author put into writing it, and their attempt to inform MMORPG.com's readers.
Well said Wudu. And I believe what you say to be very possible. Makes sense. I talked to one of my former SWG guild members and we discussed the same thing. I told him that I miss the game so much, I was willing to go back and be a crafter of some sort but SOE has nerfed those professions as well.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
"The Star Wars Galaxies team admitted that at first they thought they would see a large negative impact on subscriber levels, but as time passed things evened out and now they claim that subscription levels are virtually unchanged from where they were before the changes."
Now that is some interesting accouting, I have to tell you. The release of Revenge of the Sith, and SOE's ad campaign for the game to coincide with it, should have resulted in a marked increase in subscribers. If instead the subscriber levels are what they were just before the CU, then this means that neither the movie or the ads boosted their subscriptions.
What has actually happened is that the new subscriptions resulting from the film and the ad campaign were barely able to compensate them for their losses.
Only SOE could spin that as a success.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
What the HECK are you talking about? Ahazi is PACKED. Walk into Coronet or Mos Eisley. There are tons of people running around.
Everyone is going on about SOE this and that but thay seem to be forgetting something.
When SWG was being made I was playing EQ and remember reading a post that said Sony was to make SWG under licence to LA, in short Sony works for LA on this project and are contracted to make the game and two exspansion before LA take over.
Now i'm not trying to defend SOE for this crap thay call SWG, BUT thay were told by LA to go "live" with the CU even though thay knew it was not ready and from what I have read thay were even told by LA to reduce the amount of active Jedi conciderable.
In makeing the CU, SOE have made it currently impossible for novice Jedi to increase there ability becuse if you are a lvl80 combat proffesion than your jedi has to fight at that lvl inorder to gain experiance unless respec down.
This was a good game, in fact I would go as far as saying it was the best that was out there and SWG had a very loyal fan base, now SOE who have had great success with the first EQ nows how to run a on-line game ( given thay had to buy out Varent to learn it) but given who thay are partnered with this time it makes me wonder weather LA should stick to makeing standard PC games and leave the on-line stuff to people who know what thay are doing.
LA protects Star Wars as if it was the Holy Grail itself and you can under stand that if you look at other titles LA has made which IMO have been total crap, now SWG as not perfect but it worked and it was fun and had a little thing called playabilite, remember that word, PLAYABILITE wich is something now missing.
Before I closed my 2 accounts my guild went on a mission to the Death Watch Bunker ( group limited to 8 people now under CU) and we were all lvl 80's and we were all killed before we had even managed to kill one Battle Droid, cos under the CU we were slower and could only handle one mob at a time but the NPC's would still attack in force and had ALL be set to a combat lvl that conned red to a lvl80, fair enough it happened, no harm, no foul.
But LA and Sony have taken a big crap on its Vets, LA has cos it dont give a crap what us "Little" people and Sony cos thay had the muscle to say no to LA but instead thay gave it to us all up the rear end.
In conclusion, I dont realy care if thay go back to the old system or not, and given SOE have already said thay wont any arguement on that subject is closed, I personly will play something else till D&D online or even Middle Earth online finaly go lives.
So SOE/LA you can do as you please with SWG cos i'm going to give my money to someone else and it will be a long,long time before I even concider going back to a Sony or a LA title again.
PS/ Oh, and on the original post on this thread from the E3, Who care if sertain questions was not asked or answered, at least the person as good enough to put the post up in the first place.
Good job Dana!
I will admit it is funny to see SoE telling peoples they are doing as good as they where doing before the CU, usually a company dont try to do as good, but they try to do better and get more. If you dont move to offense and remain always defensive, eventually you meet defeat.
I wish SWG all the best they can do, however, I will never even try it. I didnt like some initial stuff, they change it and I like even less what I am reading now. For me Star Wars was always a game I play when I am solo...I would not mind grouping in Star Wars, actually might prefer it...but it sound like having to much EQ2ish influence, raiding might be implemented soon! Staying clear!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
while as others have said its more of the same SOE slapping across the face. i dont think its fair to bash Dana on this one.
Squidi, you really think SOE is a great company for practicing business like it does? It openly oppresses anyone who speaks out against their changes, and it lies to its community, AND YOU FIND THAT BRAVE? I can't even comprehend how you could feel this way, seriously, its rediculous. You respect them for shutting vocal members up about changes they don't like within the game, thats like respecting Hitler for killing anyone who spoke up against killing Jewish people. I mean seriously, I can't see how anyone could think the way you do about SOE right now, unless you have totally been paid off. Don't feel bad because people bad mouth SOE, its a gigantic company, and the words of a 30 something year old man who makes 50k a year living in Nevada don't really bother SOE.
It's not that CU worked. It was shoved down player's throats, and when we saw that nothing we said to SoE worked, we moved on. For the guy who loves the CU, he must group fight A LOT! Soloing has been totally eliminated in the game unless you want no experience. I have a spouse who makes the food buffs and even he has lost all the enjoyment in the game. He is looking for a new game to play.
SWG had a fabulous crafting system and was a fun game for people no matter what time they played. I am not the traditional in the US American player and I am very choosy who I group with as I really hate dying. I tried SWG for about a week after the CU came out. I tried reworking my character and finally gave up. I know many friends who quit too.
As I have said before, SoE put too much into this and had they done it gradually it would have maybe worked better. They banked their money on the new influx from RotS and people who were obviously BH who complained that they couldn't kill a Jedi. I really wanted the CU to work and I really hated the nay saying before the upgrade went in (They changed so much that COMBAT upgrade is not appropriate). After it went in, I feel that they were right. If I seem upset, it was because I had just started the Village quests when the CU went in and as big of a SW (saw it with my Dad in 1977) and Jedi fan I am, I will never know what it was like to run a Jedi.
What the HECK are you talking about? Ahazi is PACKED. Walk into Coronet or Mos Eisley. There are tons of people running around.
Umm, those are starter cities. Of course they are crowded (but nothing like they used to be). Try getting out to places like Talus or Yavin and see how empty it is. Duh.
SOE is a big company, but the people who work there are not. Like I said, I've been a game developer, and I know that those guys care what is said about the game - maybe not from one guy, but when there is overwhelming descent, it can be quite damaging to morale. Working in the game industry is all about morale. It's what gets you through the 80 hour weeks, working holidays, and never seeing your family.
I mean, come on. You are a presumably educated man. What are the chances that SOE is going to change back from the CU? You and I both know that it is done and over with. So why the vocal complaining? Because you want to be heard. You want to reach out to the developers who ruined the game you love and you want to hurt them back, no matter how little. I've read more than enough anti-CU posts that were nothing more than petty attacks based on intense anger, and hardly a rational understanding of why they did it, why they can't do what you want them to, and why being a jerk about it won't change a damn thing. It sounds cliched, but if you don't like the CU, the best thing you can do, in complete and total honesty, is to leave the game. Being a turd won't change a thing. It won't even make you feel better.
As for the first part of your post, I respect how open SOE has been with the playerbase. The CU wasn't just sprung on us. They talked a great deal about it, even a year before they started working on it. They released several of the design documents, completely outlining the specific changes and ideas surrounding the CU - and even gave everyone a chance to comment on it. At that point, they couldn't change the foundation of the CU, but they did make significant changes, like including Scout/Ranger as a combat class, allowing them to wear armor and benefit from the HP and combat benefits of a higher CU level. Despite a rather hurried deadline, they gave us ALL a chance to test out the CU, rather than going through private betas - and many folks used the opportunity to /bug important game breaking bugs that were actually fixed before it went live. It could've used more time in the oven, sure, but I won't pretend that the testing phase was completely worthless, and I certainly didn't use Test Center as my bug ridden first and only impression of the CU - but many people did.
What you are talking about is not business practice. It's policing. It's maintaining order. You say that people were banned for voicing their opinions? That's not the whole story. In most cases, these were individuals who were presenting rational and well thought out responses. They were spamming the forums and inciting riots. I know one guy got banned because he posted a LucasArts email for people to spam. As someone who's been the victim of such a thing, I know damn well that the emails that went to that email address were not helpful. I'm guessing that email address got swamped in spam, even signed up for a few porn mailing lists. Then there were a bunch of people which staged an anti-CU protest in Theed, crashing the server and ruining the experience of the other players who weren't protesting - despite a quite clear warning before hand saying that if they went through with it, they would be banned as per a rather specific policy SOE has, which exists not to shut people up, but to prevent them from intentionally crashing the servers.
The fact is, anti-CU people were, for the most part, rabid and riotous. SOE needed to keep order, both in their forums and in the game. Their first attempts weren't excessive at all, but it was a digital riot and they needed to use tear gas to quell it. They took down the people who either crossed the line or encouraged others to do it for them. They took down those who ignored warnings and those who ignored the rules. They took down who they had to for the purpose of keeping order - and it did. I don't know enough about who and what happened in every single case. It's possible SOE did get a little slap happy (do you blame them? Turn the other cheek my ass - they've got the power to slap back). But I know, as I'm sure you do to, that there was no way to keep order without stepping on toes. The question is merely if they stepped on too many or on the right ones.
And why do you suggest that I've been paid off? Do you have any idea how much SOE would have to dish out to pay off all the people that you anti-CU guys suggest they do? Who the hell am I? Some guy. Why would they pay me anything? How do I benefit AT ALL from defending them? The fact of the matter is I don't benefit. You only wish to imply that I do to discredit what I've said in defense of the CU, and that's just pure bullshit bully tactics. I say I like the CU and I get insulted and flamed. But I like the CU. I like it a lot. I think it's the best thing to happen to SWG and I hope they implement equally wide spread changes to the other broken parts of the game. I'm stating my pre-CU opinion only because you guys threaten and attack anyone who shares it, and I don't care for such strong armed approaches to getting your way. You want to bully the CU supporters, that's fine. But I'm not going to sit here and take it, and I can write posts that dwarf yours, that are far better constructed and communicated (see how I managed to make it through a lengthy post without comparing anybody to Hitler?). In the world of internet arguments, my sword is much sharper than yours.
If we want to talk about SOE and the CU, we'll do it through facts and rational discussion - NOT through hyperbolic smear campaigns. Throw those argumental fallacies and misplaced blame out the window and let's discuss the CU for real. Let's start. I like it because I started over. I didn't start this new system at max level. I didn't lose the stuff that took years to accumulate. I lost nothing and gained everything the CU had to offer. Taken on it's own, the CU is a much better combat system than what previously existed.
I'm glad you wanted to start over. Many of us don't want to start over....especially like me, who were finally getting to the Jedi class. Maybe you think it's great at "low levels" but who in their right mind wants to play a low level character all their life? How many times can you see the same missions over and over and over again? Is doing the Rebel Mission more exciting the second or third time around? I have seen Jabba's Palace with three different characters. I finally found one I really wanted to be Jedi and poof, SOE says, "We have changed all the rules. Start again at the beginning." Come on...if that's the case, then maybe they should have just wiped the player database and made everyone start over.
For your information, my spouse was making money like crazy before he quit because people wanted chef food and he was Master Chef, however, it was impossible for him to get his character from place to place to get resources with no armor. We haven't touched how they made it impossible not to get attacked outside of a mercant's tent on Dantooine. Not everyone was a combat class. This isn't EQ2 where everyone can be a crafter without giving up any of the combat abilities. The problem with the upgrade is that it is EQ2 combat which is set up different. There you have solo encounters and group encounters. Both are clearly marked. Not so in SWG. Doing crafting only? You don't have to leave the comfort of your free room at the inn except to go to the crafting hall. There's no wandering from planet to planet, some of which are deadly. I'm not even getting into PvP since there is none (yet) in EQ2.
Let's face it, SOE tried to save a buck by taking an existing engine and pushed and shoved to make it fit. It's a square peg in a round hole. Yes, it was a year in the making with many people saying there were problems and they were unhappy. It makes you wonder what they did for a year if they used an existing engine and adapted it.
It just finally got to the point that I don't want to start another time. I don't have it in me to see Jedi loom so close like an impossible dream. Like I said, some of us moved on but that doesn't mean we wouldn't come back if there wasn't a "responsible" compromise. I am not saying "Make it like it was before...what I want is a game where when it is 2 am in the US, I can still play the game even if it has to be by myself." I really hate raids at 2 - 4 am my time (I am living in Europe right now and it is soon to be Asia and no, I don't speak fluent German or French to play with those groups)
It just seems that SOE is saying, "We don't care if we lose players. After all, SWG wasn't our money maker anyways and then we don't have to deal with LucasArts anymore." (Oh, and things that needed fixed, can SOE keep Bria from crashing once a day without warning or are they still ignoring the problem?)
It is not a matter of SOE wont fix SWG, it is that they can't fix it. The engine SWG is built on is broken and they are unable to completely fix it to avoid lag issues and some of the crashing problems. SOE has put together one of the largest teams together to re-release SWG (SWG2) in the next year or so under a completely new engine that the data base will fit into.
My irritation is, I am sure they will make the SWG community PAY for the re-release for a broken game we have been playing for a few years now, instead of just saying "we fucked up and we are trying our best to un-fuck it now".
We shall see what happens in the future.
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What the hell are you going on about? I play EQ2. Got that nifty station pass. Tried out a Froglok yesterday. SWG is NOTHING like EQ2. EQ2 has stuff like heroic opportunities, with an almost too balanced grouping system (for some content, you must have at least one of the four archtypes to succeed, no matter what), and an emphasis on magic attacks.Meanwhile, SWG has a plethora of classes that you can mix and match together. Do you want a bounty hunter that has some pistoleer skills and some medic stuff? Do it. They changed many of the skills to be cross profession compatible, meaning that you can use a pistol skill with a rifle and vice versa. There is a much greater emphasis on ranged attacks. You get experience based on what skill you used, not just combat and trade. Only use rifles and only get better at rifles. There's only three types of armor, with only the appearances varying. The core equipment is still a majority player made.
They play completely different - unless, of course, you are talking about only the most shallow foundation that the two systems share, namely the fact that the icons have warm up timers rather than a queue and combat is based on level. In that case, you might as well call City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and Dark Age of Camelot EQ2 clones as well. They all use levels and timer based attacks, yet they all use it differently - and SWG still has way more customization, depth, and fun than any of those other games combined.
You can. There is certain content which may be locked out to you without a large group, but you can still do plenty of stuff. For instance, at 4am today, I spent 30 minutes killing ro-roos on Kashyyyk, flying duty missions, checking my harvesters, and rearranging my space yacht. I got this really cool bantha head trophy that's bigger than I am that I just had to wedge around a corner to surprise guests. SWG has more non-combat gameplay than any other MMORPG, and that has not changed with the CU. As for the combat stuff, I've had no problems soloing, except early on before I got my first elite class and some armor. It seems to me that they are saying "I know you are upset now, but the CU is for the future of SWG. A little pain now for a much brighter future." In fact, I think they really did say that in one of the interviews. They care if they lose players, but they are looking at the big picture. They are looking at what the game will be like in two years, not tomorrow. I recommend leaving the game for a while. Take a break and see what outside looks like. Come back when the next expansion is released, when the bugs will be less damaging, and your frustration levels will be such that you can deal with change a little more gracefully.OUCH .... this was not an article, that was hero worship. And that is coming from one of the most active supporters of SWG and the combat revamp.
COME ON, this is SOE. Squeeze their tender bits about the errors that were made. No wonder negative comments on the forum are dying down - these threads are getting deleted and the people that cancelled their accounts are losing forum access.
Where are the questions about often pushing patches live too soon with not enough testing ?
Where are the questions about long overdue bug fixes and profession fixes (ask them about the smuggler revamp promised in autumn 2003) !?!
Lets see some journalism here, PULLEZZEEE !!!!!!!!
have fun
Erillion