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Loot and my concerns with GW2
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No raids for you OP, and no epeen stroking that goes along with it. If you are looking for that type of gameplay there are plenty of other games out there that are better suited to your taste.
Want raids and pointless garbage? 3 words:
Go Play Rift
The more i hear the more this game (and the fanboys defending it) sounds like some feel-good socialist nonsense. Everyone is equal we all hold hands, sing kumbaya, juiceboxes and nila wafers after the game, and everyones a real weiner.
When we are all special little snowflakes.
Nobody is.
Perhaps it isn't the game for you then. Again, there are many mmos out there that cater to your preference. Heck, a new one came out just over a month ago.
I'm too lazy to look it up for the links at the moment, but I believe there's room for what you describe here in GW2. Not that skill-capturing is a part of the game the way it was in GW1, but there was mention of traits that could only be acquired out "in the wild", for example master swordsman traits that could only be earned after defeating certain npcs you had to seek out, or ancient tomes that had to be found and studied for an elementalist to learn a new trait, etc.
There's also the fact that some crafting recipes are dropped from mobs in the world, and this might be your means of acquiring "boots of wall climbing" or what have you.
I don't see how everyone is equal as a truely better player would curb stomp a bad one and likely have cosmetic gear that shows as much.
My theme song.
Go into either the world vs world vs world PVP or the structured PVP and I will happily smash your characters face in (and I will not be holding anyone’s hand and I will not be singing kumbaya when I do it). The only difference is that my gear will not be the deciding factor, my skill as a player will make it so your character cries like a little girl.
How does that sound for your feel good socialist nonsense?
Some people are so used to "gear = win" concept that the "skill = win" concept is foreign to them.
Personally, I'm happy that GW2 will have a bigger emphasis on player skill as opposed to gear. Although I can see how someone who is a fan of WoW's highly gear dependent approach would dislike not having an automatic advantage over another player.
Skill > Gear
That's all I'm going to say on this subject.
WoW's endgame concept turns the game into a gear grind. Rift's endgame concept turns that game into a gear grind also. You guys who are looking for this, there are already many games doing it pretty well. No one "has to" play GW2.
Considering the heights of boredom which many of the MMO players today reached (from playing practically the same game with different skins), being different is good. Designing GW2 to follow the same concept of "farm dungeons, farm raids, get better gear" (which lots of people did in different theme parks for the last 7 years) would have been suicide for the game.
I will admit that I have harbored the same thoughts as the OP. Being a guy that only occasionally pvp's, I have wondered what the system is gonna offer for those that only PvE. If what someone said is true and you get skills as drops as well as loot and such, I think that is brilliant. I never got very far in GW1 so I am not familiar with all the details on skill aquisition. But getting rewarded is one aspect of a game that a lot of players look forward to. Doesn't make GW a bad game, just maybe not for that type. I do like getting drops myself, but I dont see rewarding all that go on a dungeon run vs hoping your roll is better than anothers for an item is a bad thing.
The pvp aspect and balance is great and I definately agree with skill > gear. The OP made the mistake of attacking the game and its potential players and that's where he went wrong. Maybe he is just trolling, but I can see why this would be a concern for some. While I don't share his worries, it has crossed my mind. I know I can't wait to gobble up the next bit of news they release to the masses because the game is sounding like just what I have been looking for.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Sorry but your wrong. Ultima Online was very much an mmorpg and had no loot grind at all. Real mmo fans will be playing it. Just not the ones that have been sold on this horrible end game content you seem to be clinging to. I don't want "fat lewt" dropped from some end game boss. I want my items to be crafted by the players which drives a strong in game economy but GW2 isn't really giving us that either. But I'm over it. It still looks like a lot of fun to me. If you really like the loot grind and cosmetic loot isn't good enough this game simply wont be for you. I recommend Rift or WoW and I don't mean that in a bad way. To each their own.
My theme song.
O.o
Will Guild Wars 2 be an MMO?
Yes. Guild Wars 2 provides a massive, online persistent world.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#five
The official site is your friend.
Um i'm pretty sure WoW and Rift are the games you are looking for. The "millions" that "love" that end game content already have 2 big titles to play. Hell I'm sure SWTOR and TERA will probably have the end game your looking for so that makes 4. Go join them. The "millions" that don't love it will be playing the games that don't have it.
My theme song.
UGHHHH , Dude that why Guild Wars 2 will be good...the fact that it isnt like other MMOS...in fact its like guild wars 1 one fo the best...call me a fanboi...I am, becuase I have played thier products and enjoy their philo about their games.
you sir will not like Guild Wars 2 but i am sure many will and hell if i am the only one doing some DEs so be it...i will be playing in a beautiful world with some of the best art I ahve ever seen.
so be it if people think i share all my loot ...ill show them skill over gear and ill be lauhging at all the money in my pockets when you are paying 15 a month to a game where playing becomes works and fun decreases.
{mod edit}
Then why does the original Guild Wars have such a nice and dedicated community?
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/04/11/flameseeker-chronicles-the-power-of-community/
I don't understand the argument here.
DKP vs gw2 token grind for dungeon raid.
Isn't DKP a token grind system set up by the player to determine who get the looting right?
Doesn't gw2 token grind provide a fairer loot system than DKP raid system where u may get ur item in after 6 month if the mmo decided not to drop ur piece.
For me it's a improvement. OP probably enjoy seeing some of his guild/raid mate spend months in vain trying to get their pieces due to tremendous bad luck. I would classify that as sadistic.
Yeah thats pretty much it. But I think the OP doesn't like the fact that everyone is rewarded fairly for the amount of work they put into running raids and dungeons and PvP or the idea of gear that is more for looks but has the same stats as the best crafted gear.
My theme song.
Good, a lot less lootwhores in gw2
if you dont like the system there are tons of other games that do give you your loot fix, or dont and you can complain on the forums about all those ninja rollers.
I think I saw some one ask or say something about skill capture. I'm pretty sure I saw an interview where they said that would not be in GW2.
My theme song.
this is the difference between the two systems tho....The raids in WoW focus around the end game gear which equals the best gear in the game. There is no other way to achieve the stats, which are needed by your character to reach to peak of its skills. Being a better players then someone only can go so far, In Wow if i hit 85 and just ahve my questing gear on and i go into the raids i will be lowers on the dps charts or i will die to fast as a tank.
In Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 a person running off of their quest gear and those running off of the end game dungeon gear will ahve the same base stats (this is of course is only for base stats due to variables such as runes and buffs) and the skills will be able to do the same dmg (base wise again becuase traits can mod skills and their effects) While one person may have armor that is shinny and floating around their body and multi colored, and the other players having piece of metal forged to fit his/her body, The fight will be a fair one (Stat wise) Skills will play a much larger part in Guild Wars 2 combat as well as moving and dodging and using the enviroment.
This is the true difference.
I understand that and it's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to playing it.
My theme song.
There will probably be some gear differences, just the gear is not the main focus. The differences between gear sets will not be game breaking.
Incentives?
GW2 - play if you have fun playing. Progress manifested in the form of vanity items and achievements. No gearscore based segregation ("We will not take you because you do not have the gear"). Experience only makes you better. Pay once for the box. If you stop having fun you stop playing. You can go back for free and you will not fall eons behind everyone.
GearGrindGame - based on compulsion, the whole idea is "i play to get those pieces of better gear to be able to get even better pieces of gear to be able to get even better pieces..." till an expansion comes and wipes everything and you start from zero. Gear and experience make you better. Pay for the box and pay monthly. If you stop having fun you keep playing, just to get that "next piece". If you miss the headstart for an expansion you fall behind, as all the "raiding guilds" are established. You cannot catch up because of the gear based segregation.
There are incentives, just not the same.
Just as a general reply to this thread:
A game can not always be simply great fun. Soccer is fun ( if you're the type that enjoys soccer. ) not because it's a constant steady stream of fun but because there's a few semi-rare moments in which everything goes as you planned and you make this perfect action. Most of the time soccer is just going on auto-pilot and sometimes it's downright frustrating.
I think the OPs concern is that GW2 is trying the constant steady stream of fun approach which frankly just isn't how fun works in the human brain ( like how a mosquito bite stops itching if you ignore it for a time, yet when you alternate with scratching/pain it keeps on itching all day long ).
Carrot on a stick is inherint in everything we consider fun. The carrot being that near-perfect moment when you achieve what you were trying to do and the stick being the mundane moments between these near-perfect moments.
Take GW1 Arena. Every now and then you had this amazingly skilled match where both teams had healers, all players were competent and evenly matced, there weren't any hard-counters ( 2 air eles vs melee team, 2 mesmers vs caster team etc. ) Most games weren't like this, most games were pretty mundane and nothing really to get that excited about. And a few games where downright frustrating when you got that mending warrior or faced a 55 monk when nobody had enchantment removal.
Yet you kept on playing for those few great matches. I can gaurantee you that if all matches were that great then you'd just start viewing those matches as 'mundane' and started looking for the matches that were even better then those.
Raiding's much the same. You go through this long mundane series of thrash mobs to eventually get to the exciting part of facing a boss for the first time and getting started on your new gear set. After that you go through this mundane series of raids to finally get to this great moment of completing your gear set.
The problem starts when the carrot on a stick gets too obvious. When either the stick gets too long or the carrot too small. When you spend a month raiding and get only a single piece of gear which is hardly an improvement at all you stop. When you spend a week doing arena matches and get only a single just above average match with the rest being your standard unbalanced match-ups then you quit.
Carrots on a stick and skinner boxes aren't some sort of weird malfunction that the lesser players among us fall for while the real gamers instantly notice such things and disregard them as the boring stuff they are. No, carrots on a stick and skinner boxes are how we work. They only fail when they're so obvious and we notice them and stop playing. GW2 will have carrots on a stick, GW2 will be a skinner box. The only question is how juicy the carrots, how long the sticks and how complicated the skinner box will be.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
If all you want to do is find the best pieces of gear or make the perfect set of armor then you can, but the way the game is designed is that even if you do you won't be able to face-roll dungeons or opponents in PvP just because of your gear.