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Charrs are beasts that eat the children of Ascalon.
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Dont' forget the British, Spanish and Portugeuse!
What a bunch of jerks, amirite?
I mean, anybody descended from any of those groups, and their Charrlike tactics, I wouldn't trust them worth spit.
Darn imperialistic nations.
Meowhead misunderstood my post again, probably the language barrier.
I am not refering to group of people, I am refering to individuals thet have
personal responsabilitys like those war criminals that were judged guilty at Nurenberg.
I am not talking about nations, are you mind-blowing too?
? So you're saying EVERY Charr is basically Hitler/Stalin/Mao?
... yes, there's definitely a language barrier problem here, because can you point to how those people exemplify the Charr virtues, or how Charr are like those people?
Just want to post a quick reminder to not get too in depth in terms of politics or real-life stuff. Comparisons are fine, and this is lore, but be mindful of how thigns are phrased for discussion purposes. Thanks for understanding, guys.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
This thread is disgusting, glorifying the horrible immoral acts of the humans in GW1, filled with selfishness and hate. Shortly in to the story line I was so disgusted I asked for a refund. I was thinking of picking up GW2 since it lets you play as Charr, the true heroes who have fought to liberate themselves from tyranny both internally and externally, but seeing people play as humans just reminds me of the disgusting ascalonians so much I think it may make me physically ill.
Charrs love other charrs. Their children grow up seeing all other charrs in their warband around their age as brothers and sisters. no hate because of social caste. They would lay down their lives for each other with no concern for family history, differences of opinion, gender, where they were born, color of their fur, not even what legion they are from. As long as they are fellow loyal charr to the greater good. They may argue and share words with each other but when the chips are down, they fight to the death for each other.
Not like the humans who disown their children for disagreeing with them, doom their cities with their inability to listen to each other objectively and their hatred of their own seen in many places. Sinfull humans are a display of what to do to be morally wrong, with only a few minor examples of those who want to do right, and are constantly opposed by their own people.
It is fitting that the Charr world that is absent of hate, and centered around working together despite differences rises as the cream does, and is the most advanced technologically but also militaristically. I may buy this game after all. As long as I don't have to play an evil traitorous human in a society of hate and propoganda.
thats the nerdiest thing ive ever read
It is not the Charr's fault human children are so tasty.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
The charr aren't perfect either though, they've had their political squabbles in much the same way that any race has, so they do err. What are the charr? Human. It was a human mind that created them so ultimately there'll always be some level of human conflict and savagery to their storyline, no matter what. If you ever had a storyline that didn't involve conflict then it would alienate the vast, vast majority, because conflict is a very human thing. So there are charr that disagree based on different philosophies, but then, that's true of all the races.
They're not without flaw, but they're no worse off than any of the other races either, and the charr still haven't managed to drive a race to extinction yet (there is one Guild Wars race that has pulled this off, one that's playable in Guild Wars 2, and I'm not going to tell you which it is) or anything like that, so they don't seem that bad by comparison. I suppose that's the nature of the things we create, we add elements that are ethical and unethical to create depth.
The charr are still my personal favourites though of all the races, and this is simply because of their honesty, which I like. Aside from the Gold Legion and potentially the Ash Legion, deceit seems to be a distasteful element to the charr, because deceit was used in part to enslave them, so many of them choose to be honest based upon their past experiences. They can be deceitful, as the Gold Legion shows, but many choose not to. An exemplar of this is Pyre.
It is fair to say though that there's little hate inside a legion, a charr loves their legion above all things, and they'd die to protect it, now it's when all three legions bind into one entity... that's when things will really get interesting.
Anyone that do not understand me yet, please read attentively this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel
Their motto was "Meine Ehre heißt Treue ("My Honour is Loyalty.")
I find your post absolutely hilarious since anytime anyone brought up real world examples you said the following:
Seems like a nice double standard you got doing there, but to each their own.
Also does that mean you are condemning everything that has the mindset of the Charr, since you said part of the Charr can be linked to the SS of the Nazi party? Well then I guess you better condemn the U.S. Marines because they have a lot in common with the mindset of the Charr. In fact their official Marine Corps motto is Semper Fidelis “Always faithful”. Which could be applied to the Charr since loyalty to their leaders is the top priority. So I guess that means all the Marines that ever died whereas evil as you say the Charr are, since the Charr have the same characteristics.
So then all of these Marines that won the Medal of Honor where bad people then? Since they were loyal and faithful to a cause above all else. Oh and these Marines that died in WW2 fighting (and won the medal of honor) the Nazi’s with the same determination as the common German soldier must be bad too.
After all you say the Charr are bad because they put duty and loyalty above all else. So that means anyone that has that trait must be bad! I have to admit that is such a great way to look at life that anyone that has any values like that is bad! I just hope your country is never invaded and you have to join in a war for your survival, and have to do really bad things like kill children and women. Because then what you are going to do, when you are in the position of those you are judging?
Ok I see what's going on here. Goya you are condemning an entire race based on there leaders orders. And by leaders I mean the Flame Legion. You telling me your going to condemn all germans based on the Nazis? How about the americans for the Japanese camps after the bombing of Pearl Harber? You can condemn the entire human race with this logic.
Well then the Charr have many of the characteristics of the marines you call defenders here, so then how is the whole species of Charr evil?
You are honestly condemning a whole species because of the actions of the flame legion? Well in that case in our world Portugal, United States, Great Britain, France, Spain, Netherlands, Babylon, Greece, and Italy should all be condemned since they enslaved people too! Well do you Goya, do you condemn these nations and speak out against them for owning slaves in the past. Because that is what you are doing right here, you are saying all Charr are evil because 250 years ago they did bad things. Guess what some of these nations owned slaves less than 250 years ago, so I guess they are worse than Charr.
No, I am not telling you anything about germans or any other nation.
As I already explainded to Meowhead, I am talking about individuals that are responsible for their actions.
I am also saying that no nazi was innocent.
@Goya
No one at war time is ever "innocent", any veteran will gladly tell you this, as it forces you into situations where you do things that you are proud of, and things that you will never be able to be proud of. War is an ugly thing, and anyone involved in war has done terrible things.
The next thing I've been holding back because I don't want to seem biased against anyone, I'm not, but since you're so biased against the charr I need to do this to put everything in context. You've made me reveal this to you, it's necessary now.
According to Guild Wars 1's lore, the humans were responsible for driving a race to extinction simply because they didn't like/trust them. An entire race! All dead! Every last one of them! The charr had no involvement in this, they were still behind the wall at the time. And in regards to the three human nations of Kryta, Orr, and Ascalon, if you read the lore they were involved in some bloody wars known as the Guild Wars (which the game is named after), the three human nations would literally war with anyone who'd pick up a sword. Even in the background lore for GW1, they were bloodthirsty, brutal, and savage.
Now the only reason I'm explaining this is to put things into perspective, because you like to call the charr nazis, Goya. But the charr never tried to cause genocide to the point where it would result in the extinction of an entire race! The humans did. Once I'm done writing this post, I'll go dig out that bit of lore and post back with it here just to show you that war makes all people ugly, not just the charr but the humans as well, but it can also bring out some of the greatest virtues, too.
You treat everything black and white, you've fallen prey to something called dualistic thinking, or more recently, binary thinking, where anything that is you or is like you is 1/Good, and everything that is unlike you, everything that is unfamiliar to you is 0/Evil. It's an incredibly simplistic way of thinking, very black and white, and very naive. There are complexities and subtleties that this sort of view ignores, because you want to categorise everything simply in your head, and you want to feel superior.
But like I said, it's hardly fair to call the charr nazis when they haven't driven a race to extinction yet, but your beloved humans have. And again I'll say that I really didn't want to tell you this, but your hate speech has gotten the best of me.
Not every german was a nazi either. I could say every american was for the war in Iraq just because we went to war with them, but that would be incorrect seeing how I was never for that war.
So from your logic no Charr is innocent they are all guilty of the crimes committed 250 years ago. Well let’s look at the humans of Tryia and their sins 250 years ago. The white mantle ruled over Kryta with the help of the unseen ones. During their years of authority there was slavery, human sacrifice, mass genocide (anyone who disagreed with them died), and good old tyrannical oppression. Yeah it sounds to me like the human race of Tyria are all good little angles!
So by your logic that means all humans of Kryta are guilty of the sins that were committed 250 years ago. So I guess if the Charr should be bad guys according to your logic, which means all of Kryta should be bad guys too. So that would leave us with the following playable races; limited humans since they can only be from the Ascalon settlement and Ebonhawke, Norn, and Asura (although I really do not how you can say the Norn and Asura are worthy of being heroes they have sinned too, in fact the Asura are trying to commit mass genocide). This sounds like a wonderful game to me, where we have to kill all the humans of Kryta and Charr on sight for the sins of their fathers.
And I am saying that by doing that you did not behave as a charr hero.
So every charr was for the war against the humans? And oddly enough there were charr who overthrew the flame legion. Why would they do that if they were all so gung ho for the war?
Well, knowing the charr, I'd say they probably were missing their females.
@jukinru
Not to mention that they were enslaved by the Flame Legion, first using lies and deceit, and then lording the power over the titans over them, with the simple attitude that if you disagree with them, if you even think of disagreeing with them, you die. The Flame Legion were not a nice group of people, not remotely, and they basically took control over the charr, and they even brainwashed them, as Ember mentioned, to the point where few charr could even remember how things were before. But some found out, and this lead to the revolution against the Flame Legion. They wanted their freedom and independence back, even at the threat of death.
The Flame Legion is sort of like the charr analogue of the White Mantle, and imagine what would've happened if the corrupt White Mantle (corrupt as pointed out above), had come across a way to control and enslave humanity. They would've done it, and they would've been responsible for just as many horrible things as the charr. The worst thing is is that it was a human god (Abaddon) who gave the charr the titans in the first place, and let's not forget that the Searing was thanks to the Cauldrons of Abaddon. Perhaps if Abaddon hadn't been pissed off to the point of being consumed by hatred, then the Searing might never have even happened.
Essentially the charr, via the Flame Legion, were used as a play for power by one corrupt human god against the rest of the human gods (and by proxy, the humans). The charr were just sort of caught in the middle thanks to the idiocy, greed, and hatred of the Flame Legion - who're now outcasts in Guild Wars 2, much like the White Mantle are.
So the weak little 'females' didn't have anything to do with the charr gaining their freedom and independence? You'll find that you are wrong, Mr. Misogynist.
Yes they did, the German soldier in WW2 was considered one of the most discipline and fearless fighting forces on the face of the planet. They were also instances of them being ruthless and cruel, just like Allied Troops in WW2.
In fact my grandfather severed in WW2 in the 3rd armor tank battalion under General Patton, he drove supply trucks throughout the war. He told me he witnessed on more than one occasion allied soldiers executing German prisoners, because they were ahead of the battle lines and they did not have people to spare for guard duty. I have also talked to other WW2 vets that admitted seeing the same thing; this act is against the Geneva Convention and the rules of war. But that does not stop it from occurring, war is a brutal and ugly thing that makes men do things they will never forget.
OK now with all that said from the lore of the Charr: o our guiding principle for writing them has been to delve into some of the unexplored charr virtues (industry, discipline, fearlessness) along with their well-known vices (aggression, bloodthirst, and ruthlessness).
That sounds like both the German soldiers and the allied soldiers in WW2, so what was that about not behaving like a Charr hero?
I got a brilliant idea how about we close this thread everything has been said in it over and over again and no one is going to agree with the other party. Let’s just agree to disagree and please close this thread.
@AKASlapHappy
I concur, this thread just needs to die, now. It's been nothing more than an excuse for hate speech of all sorts (racism and misogyny) since the beginning. It just needs to die. Even if Goya is the last one posting, I don't give a damn, this thread is a travesty.
Lets not forget the ghosts of ascalon. Out of all the horrible things done during that time this is at the top somewhere. What a great guy that king Adelbern was. Not a bad person really, just you know he did use that foefire which I'm sure didn't have grave results. Well accept all those people who died and are now ghosts who hate the charr and are stuck like that pretty much forever or until someone figures out how to put an end to it. A pretty good example of an individual for you Goya.
Edit: I agree. page 18 and logic seems to be pretty useless.