That'd be like telling people with low-end graphics cards that no, they can't play this game.
Consider: If ArenaNet gives into the demands of mounts (touch wood they won't), then people will demand shinier mounts, so ArenaNet will provide shinier mounts, then people will demand shinier mounts, and ArenaNet will provide, and soon you'll have mounts with all sorts of nonsensical graphical effects floating around them, making them look like a mobile fireworks factory.
A few of these is not bad. But if you have a dynamic event with ~100 people in it, then that means ~100 mounts parked nearby. That's going to kill the framerate of anyone walking near enough to the event, it'll be ridiculous. That's why mounts in WoW disappear, which is annoying because it makes them look like pokemon critters. I think my point is that no matter what you do, mounts are going to seem ridiculous, and therefore they're best left out of the game.
Besides, as I pointed out, the game is being designed for X speed. Not X speed OR Y speed OR Z speed. If you do that then you have to artificially inflate the size of areas for Z speed mounts, and those on X speed mounts have to go across a boring, massive expanse, something they weren't doing at lower levels. See: WoW.
Seriously, mounts are a curse.
They don't have to make it so everyone can see them. They could make it so when you see someone dismount you can see the mount for a short period of time or if you move away it disapears however the owner will always see it. Not much load that way. Or a whistle/call and it comes running from off in the distance. Or when you dismount it simply runs back to the stable where you have to return if you wish to take your mount out again.
P.S. No glow in the dark mounts please. Just normal horses or what ever your race uses as a mount.
I recently discovered after making my first Worgen on World of Warcraft (kinda new player) that I am perfectly fine without a mount. As long as you sprint around that speed when you sheath your weapon, I'll be perfectly okay with it.
I recently discovered after making my first Worgen on World of Warcraft (kinda new player) that I am perfectly fine without a mount. As long as you sprint around that speed when you sheath your weapon, I'll be perfectly okay with it.
For the week that I played cataclysm, I still wanted a mount.. it just felt wrong. At least in wow it kinda made sense, it's a werewolf... but what's the excuse for a human running as fast as a mount?
I recently discovered after making my first Worgen on World of Warcraft (kinda new player) that I am perfectly fine without a mount. As long as you sprint around that speed when you sheath your weapon, I'll be perfectly okay with it.
For the week that I played cataclysm, I still wanted a mount.. it just felt wrong. At least in wow it kinda made sense, it's a werewolf... but what's the excuse for a human running as fast as a mount?
The gallop is very much like the canter, except that it is faster, more ground-covering, and the three-beat canter changes to a four-beat gait. It is the fastest gait of the horse, averaging about 25 to 30 miles per hour (40 to 48 km/h), and in the wild is used when the animal needs to flee from predators or simply cover short distances quickly. Horses seldom will gallop more than a mile or two (about 1.5–3 km) before they need to rest, though horses can sustain a moderately-paced gallop for longer distances before they become winded and have to slow down.
The fastest speed of a human running was set by Maurice Greene, who achieved a sprint speed of 26.7 mph.
Note that is anarobic : the highest sustained speed is just over 15 miles an hour - i.e. a 4 minute mile.
So the first is the limit of the legs, the second the limit of the heart.
And that's real world. Not even taking into account Asuran magic.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I dislike the idea of flying mounts in the game because flying ruins the visual aspect of the game by reducing the scale and the intention of game's aesthetics. The scenery in the game looks too beautiful to have some random player flying by to ruin the effect of it. It also allows people to drop into a specific area and bypass areas they'd normally have to walk through despite the teleport system.
Mounts though, I can't seem to figure out what kind of animals are available in Guild Wars for mounts that'd serve the purpose. Golems? Dolyaks? Charr motorcycles? Roller Beetles? What do you intend to ride when you wanted mounts? The ranger pets are companions not mounts. They'd look silly with you riding on their backs. I expect them kick you off or bite your ankles first.
The gallop is very much like the canter, except that it is faster, more ground-covering, and the three-beat canter changes to a four-beat gait. It is the fastest gait of the horse, averaging about 25 to 30 miles per hour (40 to 48 km/h), and in the wild is used when the animal needs to flee from predators or simply cover short distances quickly. Horses seldom will gallop more than a mile or two (about 1.5–3 km) before they need to rest, though horses can sustain a moderately-paced gallop for longer distances before they become winded and have to slow down.
The fastest speed of a human running was set by Maurice Greene, who achieved a sprint speed of 26.7 mph.
Note that is anarobic : the highest sustained speed is just over 15 miles an hour - i.e. a 4 minute mile.
So the first is the limit of the legs, the second the limit of the heart.
And that's real world. Not even taking into account Asuran magic.
You're comparing the average horse speed to the fastest human speed.....
The average human sprinting speed is much more likely to be at 15mph or so, at least if we only take healthy and fit adults.
If you want to take take that 26.7mph then you'll have to compare it to the fastest horse speed. Take for example the quarter horse which can sprint at speeds of 55mph.
Horses are, on average, twice as fast as people. If not more. Even donkeys are, on average, faster then us people. Hell, even an elephant is faster then we are. We've got the drop on cows though, at full sprint we're faster.... by like 2mph....
Long story short, people aren't built for speed. Which is why we built motorcycles....
I don't care whether or not GW2 uses mounts or not but if, for whatever possible reason, you feel the need to defend their decision ( because apperently the GW2 devs are about to start crying due to all the negativity here.... ) at least use numbers that are actually comparable.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I could say this... There is a chance arenanet will include them, but dont expect they will be very useful, its going to be like just for the looks. Like miniatures in original gw. Anyway, i would accept mounts in gw2 only then, when you ride one you would move 2x slower than normal.
The gallop is very much like the canter, except that it is faster, more ground-covering, and the three-beat canter changes to a four-beat gait. It is the fastest gait of the horse, averaging about 25 to 30 miles per hour (40 to 48 km/h), and in the wild is used when the animal needs to flee from predators or simply cover short distances quickly. Horses seldom will gallop more than a mile or two (about 1.5–3 km) before they need to rest, though horses can sustain a moderately-paced gallop for longer distances before they become winded and have to slow down.
The fastest speed of a human running was set by Maurice Greene, who achieved a sprint speed of 26.7 mph.
Note that is anarobic : the highest sustained speed is just over 15 miles an hour - i.e. a 4 minute mile.
So the first is the limit of the legs, the second the limit of the heart.
And that's real world. Not even taking into account Asuran magic.
You're comparing the average horse speed to the fastest human speed.....
The average human sprinting speed is much more likely to be at 15mph or so, at least if we only take healthy and fit adults.
If you want to take take that 26.7mph then you'll have to compare it to the fastest horse speed. Take for example the quarter horse which can sprint at speeds of 55mph.
Horses are, on average, twice as fast as people. If not more. Even donkeys are, on average, faster then us people. Hell, even an elephant is faster then we are. We've got the drop on cows though, at full sprint we're faster.... by like 2mph....
Long story short, people aren't built for speed. Which is why we built motorcycles....
I don't care whether or not GW2 uses mounts or not but if, for whatever possible reason, you feel the need to defend their decision ( because apperently the GW2 devs are about to start crying due to all the negativity here.... ) at least use numbers that are actually comparable.
Ok, that was clearly not a serious argument on my part. I'm obviously comparing apples to oranges in the first place, but then I come in with the "asuran magic makes 100m sprint speeds into sustained run speeds" implication at the end with the smiley face.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Long story short, people aren't built for speed. Which is why we built motorcycles....
Humans are built for long distance travel. Give an athletic human a whole day, and they'll beat that horse.
Arabian horses can cover 100 miles ( 160 km ) in a single day ( healthy day with rest, food and sleep. )
There's no way an average athletic human can cover that. A marathon is about 25 miles. the average marathon completion time is 4,5 hours. So you're basically expecting people to run 4 consecutive marathons a day taking 18 hours. Leaving them 6 hours to sleep and eat.
Let's say a lot of slobs also do marathons. We'll put the time at 2,5 hours per marathon. That's what professionals do. You're still doing 10 hours a day of straight marathon running. Seeing as most people that finish a single marathon are completely exhausted, dehydrated and fatigued I don't think doing that for 10 hours straight is something you'll survive.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Arabian horses can cover 100 miles ( 160 km ) in a single day ( healthy day with rest, food and sleep. )
There's no way an average athletic human can cover that. A marathon is 25 miles ( slightly more but we'll give humans the advantage. ) the average marathon completion time is 4,5 hours. So you're basically expecting people to run 4 consecutive marathons a day taking 18 hours. Leaving them 6 hours to sleep and eat.
Let's say a lot of slobs also do marathons. We'll put the time at 2,5 hours per marathon. That's what professionals do. You're still doing 10 hours a day of straight marathon running. Seeing as most people that finish a single marathon are completely exhausted, dehydrated and fatigued I don't think doing that for 10 hours straight is something you'll survive.
Actually, there are people who do ultra marathon running. :T ... though admittedly, those people are FREAKS. (Like the guy who ran a marathon a day for 50 days...)
The thing is, the horses you're talking about are born and bred, extremely trained athletes. that's not a 'lazy slob' Arabian horse doing that. I guess it depends upon what kind of horse you're talking about. Most kinds of horse can't do that either, at all. I guess horses have been bred so freakishly they're a lot more impressive than they used to be...
Actually, there are people who do ultra marathon running. :T ... though admittedly, those people are FREAKS. (Like the guy who ran a marathon a day for 50 days...)
The thing is, the horses you're talking about are born and bred, extremely trained athletes. that's not a 'lazy slob' Arabian horse doing that. I guess it depends upon what kind of horse you're talking about. Most kinds of horse can't do that either, at all. I guess horses have been bred so freakishly they're a lot more impressive than they used to be...
The 'lazy slob' was more sarcastic :P, I don't think there's any actual lazy people running marathons ( lazy marathon runner is a bit of a paradox )
But putting an arabian horse against someone who takes 2,5 hours is a fair comparison. Arabian horses are among the best from the horse world while 2,5 hours on a marathon makes you among the best of the human world.
But even taking averages horses are easily superior. Your average human can do at the very best 35 miles or so a day. That's almost 1,5 marathons. An average horse should be able to reach over 50 miles.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
The 'lazy slob' was more sarcastic :P, I don't think there's any actual lazy people running marathons ( lazy marathon runner is a bit of a paradox )
But putting an arabian horse against someone who takes 2,5 hours is a fair comparison. Arabian horses are among the best from the horse world while 2,5 hours on a marathon makes you among the best of the human world.
But even taking averages horses are easily superior. Your average human can do at the very best 35 miles or so a day. That's almost 1,5 marathons. An average horse should be able to reach over 50 miles.
Hmmm, after reading some more, it seems like I was under some sort of misapprehension. Humans are STILL long distance specialists, but apparently horses are both speed and long distance.
Humans are better at long distance movement than fast movement, but horses have been bred to be both.
... though of course, it's a subject of debate whether horses even exist in Tyria anymore. They might be extinct. :<
Or horses might never have existed in the first place.
There are certainly gaps filled in Tyria's ecology by creatures that don't exist on our world, so I can't imagine why vice versa wouldn't be true a s well.
Hmmm, after reading some more, it seems like I was under some sort of misapprehension. Humans are STILL long distance specialists, but apparently horses are both speed and long distance.
Humans are better at long distance movement than fast movement, but horses have been bred to be both.
... though of course, it's a subject of debate whether horses even exist in Tyria anymore. They might be extinct. :<
(PS. Pay attention to your healer topic!)
That's basically the gist of it. But as far as evolution goes humans are social interaction specialists. Our brains and bodies are extremely adept at expressing and interpreting feelings, ideas or whatever we want.
And I was actually hoping to let that topic die so I could start a "Building Better Horses" topic......
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Or horses might never have existed in the first place.
There are certainly gaps filled in Tyria's ecology by creatures that don't exist on our world, so I can't imagine why vice versa wouldn't be true a s well.
Nope. Horses were on Orr.
Necrid Horseman.
... so there at least USED to be horses, since there's zombie horses!
Or horses might never have existed in the first place.
There are certainly gaps filled in Tyria's ecology by creatures that don't exist on our world, so I can't imagine why vice versa wouldn't be true a s well.
Nope. Horses were on Orr.
Necrid Horseman.
... so there at least USED to be horses, since there's zombie horses!
OMG this breaks it wide OPEN!!
So are we talking about normal slob zombie horses or arabian bred and trained zombie horses.
Could a zombie human beat a zombie horse in a long distance race?
Could a zombie human beat a zombie horse in a long distance race?
Never. Everyone knows zombie humanoids have a 1 mp/h speed limit and are required to slowly shuffle with outstretched arms towards their objectives. (In Fallout they got it wrong!)
The development team may have decided mounts are not needed due to the size/layout of the world, or the convenience of other travel options. I'm interested if the playerbase will agree upon launch.
Could a zombie human beat a zombie horse in a long distance race?
Never. Everyone knows zombie humanoids have a 1 mp/h speed limit and are required to slowly shuffle with outstretched arms towards their objectives. (In Fallout they got it wrong!)
Well one things for certain, you can beat a horse to death...as seen by this thread, but you cant beat a zombie horse to death.
Could a zombie human beat a zombie horse in a long distance race?
Never. Everyone knows zombie humanoids have a 1 mp/h speed limit and are required to slowly shuffle with outstretched arms towards their objectives. (In Fallout they got it wrong!)
Some in Fallout are very slow. I think you are referring to those hunched and almost crawling mutants that move quite fast. You also have the typical shuffling zombies that go very slow and have their arms stretched out in front of them. I know this, because my melee toon used a gun to pull mobs and sometimes I lost my patience and ran towards them because I got tired of waiting for the pulled mob
The development team may have decided mounts are not needed due to the size/layout of the world, or the convenience of other travel options. I'm interested if the playerbase will agree upon launch.
I hope it's not do to the size, that would mean it's too small to warrent mounts. I don't see this being the case so I think we can rule that out.
The development team may have decided mounts are not needed due to the size/layout of the world, or the convenience of other travel options. I'm interested if the playerbase will agree upon launch.
I hope it's not do to the size, that would mean it's too small to warrent mounts. I don't see this being the case so I think we can rule that out.
That's a false dichotomy, it doesn't need to mean that at all. It could just mean that there's no empty space for mounts. Think about it for a moment - to have a mount, you have to have space to run it across. This is why there are huge stretches in WoW (and massive stretches in the later levels) where there is simply nothing. It's just space you ride your mount through from point A to point B.
What ArenaNet might have done instead is simply filled the blank spaces with content, and then dropped down waypoints liberally, so it could still be massive, but there'd be no point in riding a mount through it, because you'd be surrounded by content, and therefore mounts would probably be disruptive. And you may find yourself getting off often to help out anyway.
Comments
They don't have to make it so everyone can see them. They could make it so when you see someone dismount you can see the mount for a short period of time or if you move away it disapears however the owner will always see it. Not much load that way. Or a whistle/call and it comes running from off in the distance. Or when you dismount it simply runs back to the stable where you have to return if you wish to take your mount out again.
P.S. No glow in the dark mounts please. Just normal horses or what ever your race uses as a mount.
My theme song.
But I like to feed my mounts glow sticks....
As long as you sprint around that speed when you sheath your weapon, I'll be perfectly okay with it.
For the week that I played cataclysm, I still wanted a mount.. it just felt wrong. At least in wow it kinda made sense, it's a werewolf... but what's the excuse for a human running as fast as a mount?
From wikipedia
The gallop is very much like the canter, except that it is faster, more ground-covering, and the three-beat canter changes to a four-beat gait. It is the fastest gait of the horse, averaging about 25 to 30 miles per hour (40 to 48 km/h), and in the wild is used when the animal needs to flee from predators or simply cover short distances quickly. Horses seldom will gallop more than a mile or two (about 1.5–3 km) before they need to rest, though horses can sustain a moderately-paced gallop for longer distances before they become winded and have to slow down.
From wiki answers
The fastest speed of a human running was set by Maurice Greene, who achieved a sprint speed of 26.7 mph.
Note that is anarobic : the highest sustained speed is just over 15 miles an hour - i.e. a 4 minute mile.
So the first is the limit of the legs, the second the limit of the heart.
And that's real world. Not even taking into account Asuran magic.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I dislike the idea of flying mounts in the game because flying ruins the visual aspect of the game by reducing the scale and the intention of game's aesthetics. The scenery in the game looks too beautiful to have some random player flying by to ruin the effect of it. It also allows people to drop into a specific area and bypass areas they'd normally have to walk through despite the teleport system.
Mounts though, I can't seem to figure out what kind of animals are available in Guild Wars for mounts that'd serve the purpose. Golems? Dolyaks? Charr motorcycles? Roller Beetles? What do you intend to ride when you wanted mounts? The ranger pets are companions not mounts. They'd look silly with you riding on their backs. I expect them kick you off or bite your ankles first.
You're comparing the average horse speed to the fastest human speed.....
The average human sprinting speed is much more likely to be at 15mph or so, at least if we only take healthy and fit adults.
If you want to take take that 26.7mph then you'll have to compare it to the fastest horse speed. Take for example the quarter horse which can sprint at speeds of 55mph.
Horses are, on average, twice as fast as people. If not more. Even donkeys are, on average, faster then us people. Hell, even an elephant is faster then we are. We've got the drop on cows though, at full sprint we're faster.... by like 2mph....
Long story short, people aren't built for speed. Which is why we built motorcycles....
I don't care whether or not GW2 uses mounts or not but if, for whatever possible reason, you feel the need to defend their decision ( because apperently the GW2 devs are about to start crying due to all the negativity here.... ) at least use numbers that are actually comparable.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
I could say this... There is a chance arenanet will include them, but dont expect they will be very useful, its going to be like just for the looks. Like miniatures in original gw. Anyway, i would accept mounts in gw2 only then, when you ride one you would move 2x slower than normal.
Ok, that was clearly not a serious argument on my part. I'm obviously comparing apples to oranges in the first place, but then I come in with the "asuran magic makes 100m sprint speeds into sustained run speeds" implication at the end with the smiley face.
I actually went to bed thinking of the idea of "The 6 Million Karma Charr" and his bionic legs.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Humans are built for long distance travel. Give an athletic human a whole day, and they'll beat that horse.
Arabian horses can cover 100 miles ( 160 km ) in a single day ( healthy day with rest, food and sleep. )
There's no way an average athletic human can cover that. A marathon is about 25 miles. the average marathon completion time is 4,5 hours. So you're basically expecting people to run 4 consecutive marathons a day taking 18 hours. Leaving them 6 hours to sleep and eat.
Let's say a lot of slobs also do marathons. We'll put the time at 2,5 hours per marathon. That's what professionals do. You're still doing 10 hours a day of straight marathon running. Seeing as most people that finish a single marathon are completely exhausted, dehydrated and fatigued I don't think doing that for 10 hours straight is something you'll survive.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
i think he is using "beat that horse" to its literal meaning. :P
I need more vespene gas.
Actually, there are people who do ultra marathon running. :T ... though admittedly, those people are FREAKS. (Like the guy who ran a marathon a day for 50 days...)
The thing is, the horses you're talking about are born and bred, extremely trained athletes. that's not a 'lazy slob' Arabian horse doing that. I guess it depends upon what kind of horse you're talking about. Most kinds of horse can't do that either, at all.
I guess horses have been bred so freakishly they're a lot more impressive than they used to be...
The 'lazy slob' was more sarcastic :P, I don't think there's any actual lazy people running marathons ( lazy marathon runner is a bit of a paradox )
But putting an arabian horse against someone who takes 2,5 hours is a fair comparison. Arabian horses are among the best from the horse world while 2,5 hours on a marathon makes you among the best of the human world.
But even taking averages horses are easily superior. Your average human can do at the very best 35 miles or so a day. That's almost 1,5 marathons. An average horse should be able to reach over 50 miles.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Hmmm, after reading some more, it seems like I was under some sort of misapprehension. Humans are STILL long distance specialists, but apparently horses are both speed and long distance.
Humans are better at long distance movement than fast movement, but horses have been bred to be both.
... though of course, it's a subject of debate whether horses even exist in Tyria anymore. They might be extinct. :<
(PS. Pay attention to your healer topic!)
Or horses might never have existed in the first place.
There are certainly gaps filled in Tyria's ecology by creatures that don't exist on our world, so I can't imagine why vice versa wouldn't be true a s well.
That's basically the gist of it. But as far as evolution goes humans are social interaction specialists. Our brains and bodies are extremely adept at expressing and interpreting feelings, ideas or whatever we want.
And I was actually hoping to let that topic die so I could start a "Building Better Horses" topic......
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Nope. Horses were on Orr.
Necrid Horseman.
... so there at least USED to be horses, since there's zombie horses!
OMG this breaks it wide OPEN!!
So are we talking about normal slob zombie horses or arabian bred and trained zombie horses.
Could a zombie human beat a zombie horse in a long distance race?
Never. Everyone knows zombie humanoids have a 1 mp/h speed limit and are required to slowly shuffle with outstretched arms towards their objectives. (In Fallout they got it wrong!)
My brand new bloggity blog.
The development team may have decided mounts are not needed due to the size/layout of the world, or the convenience of other travel options. I'm interested if the playerbase will agree upon launch.
Well one things for certain, you can beat a horse to death...as seen by this thread, but you cant beat a zombie horse to death.
Some in Fallout are very slow. I think you are referring to those hunched and almost crawling mutants that move quite fast. You also have the typical shuffling zombies that go very slow and have their arms stretched out in front of them. I know this, because my melee toon used a gun to pull mobs and sometimes I lost my patience and ran towards them because I got tired of waiting for the pulled mob
I hope it's not do to the size, that would mean it's too small to warrent mounts. I don't see this being the case so I think we can rule that out.
That's a false dichotomy, it doesn't need to mean that at all. It could just mean that there's no empty space for mounts. Think about it for a moment - to have a mount, you have to have space to run it across. This is why there are huge stretches in WoW (and massive stretches in the later levels) where there is simply nothing. It's just space you ride your mount through from point A to point B.
What ArenaNet might have done instead is simply filled the blank spaces with content, and then dropped down waypoints liberally, so it could still be massive, but there'd be no point in riding a mount through it, because you'd be surrounded by content, and therefore mounts would probably be disruptive. And you may find yourself getting off often to help out anyway.