Here is my problem with TOR. They will never be able to add the kind of voice over story content after the game is released that will keep elder players playing. That is why I have said repeatedly that what TOR is on release is NOT as important to me in the longrun as what path the developers will take with the game.
They can not keep up with player desire for content, IMO without shifting over to the "living breathing world" to immerse yourself in model. In other words, they are going to have to add meta game sand box elements that allow players the facilitites to create their own content. Player cities, house decorating, a real crafting system, a real space system with player crafted ships, guild controlled capital ships or space stations, and real GCW with meaningful mechanics...those are the things, IMO, that TOR will have ot gravitate towards if it wants to continue to provide value to its subscriber base.
I fully expect the stories to be great. I look forward to playing through them all. But if we know one thing, it is that players will play through them infinitely faster they BW will be able to keep creating them....
Translation: it's no sandbox. There is no real endgame content. But it's a great fun while you play it! The goal of the game is not to reach top levels because there is nowhere to go from there; it's the journey itself that is fun and focus in this game!
And you know, it's great. I'm sooooo buying it at launch. I'm not going to subscribe, but I want to play through it at least twice, may be 4 times. A month will be enough, and it will be well worth my money.
I really can't see how anyone can legitimately claim that the STAFF writers here have given TOR bad press. Generaly, you guys seem to write pretty postively about MOST MMO's. You all seem far more lenient then most of us PLAYERS who post here. I won't go into reasons on why I think that might be....but as an organization...even when writing about games that have very serious problems...as a group, the MMORPG staff writers strike me as a very "silver lining" sort.
I CAN see why many folks would claim us FORUM Posters at MMORPG are pretty harsh/negative.... but not the staff writers.
I can't speak for anyone else but you can meet some pretty strongly cynical people in this industry so if you're looking for that there are quite a few people out there more than happy to take a glass half empty approach to things. That doesn't mean we won't call a spade a spade, we just don't lean towards looking for reasons to be negative about a game, even if that does make for good traffic.
With me, I shoot it as I see it. If you've been following my SWTOR articles since I started writing here they've been all over the place. If there is something I don't like, I'll write about it, if I'm ecstatic about something, I'll write about it too. I don't think anyone here who's actually read my stuff can say I've been hyping the game up or crapping on it every turn. Sure, my coverage coming out of the recent Immersion Days event was overwhelmingly positive. Why? I had a good time, the game looked good, that's all there was to it. At the same time I spent several articles blasting BioWare in the past for their approach to space combat (among many other things); it cuts both ways.
However, as far as an overall outlook goes, no, I don't have that cynical bias towards the genre, though I understand and appreciate the fact that many gamers do. After all, most of us have reason to be with how often we've been burned. I get it . I know what it's like following a game for years in the hopes it will be a solid place to hopefully serve as your virtual home away from home for perhaps years and years to come only for it to turn out to be a massive failure. I've made the friends that could last a lifetime in my MMO travels, I know why many of you guys pine for the olden days, and I understand that the trend of MMO design in recent history can sometimes be contrary to creating such an experience. Even so, I choose to write about this genre as a profession, so what's the point for me in simply being cynical? It seems kind of pointless to me. Despite all the canceled games, undelivered promises, and genuine screwups I stillI love MMOs and what they uniquely represent as a genre, and so I genuinely believe there are good times ahead. I prefer this outlook to just dwelling on the good times of the past and passing off all the new stuff as simple dreck by default. Would you really want us to be that way?
As a Star Wars fan it was Star Wars Galaxies that finally drew me into the genre and got me to try out an MMO and I was there for years hoping it'd get better while it mostly got worse (and then it REALLY got worse!). I've been there. I've felt the brunt of that particular burn, but I've moved on. I still believe there is yet more to see and more fun to be had and so I keep an open mind when looking at new games, especially so when they're being developed in ways that challenge the traditional way of doing MMOs.
Let's face it, the genre is still super young, I'm not going to get hung up on the way things were or have been, but it also doesn't mean I don't want those things or that I can no longer appreciate them. I'd love it if TOR were a sandbox like SWG was, but that just isn't what the game is. Should I bash it continuously because of that? No, and I would hope you wouldn't want me or us a publication to do so. We all have our biases and preferences, but I feel confident speaking for the team in saying that we try to keep a positive outlook nonetheless. I think we do it for our own sakes and especially for our readership. We know you want us to be fair and give it to you straight and we take a lot of pride in that responsibility. When we cover a game we know that if you're reading our articles you're putting a certain amount of stock in what we have to say, there's a certain trust relationship there, and we would never violate that. Take that as lip service if you like, but when I go out to shows I always think about what you guys would want to see or hear about, I don't care about what they want to talk about or what they'll think about what I have to say when I come back and write my piece. It's also why I come back with crappy shakycam videos when it's either that or nothing, it's the thought that counts! (I hope. :P)
Translation: it's no sandbox. There is no real endgame content. But it's a great fun while you play it! The goal of the game is not to reach top levels because there is nowhere to go from there; it's the journey itself that is fun and focus in this game!
And you know, it's great. I'm sooooo buying it at launch. I'm not going to subscribe, but I want to play through it at least twice, may be 4 times. A month will be enough, and it will be well worth my money.
This is sort of what I expect as well. I will buy it, play it, and enjoy it, then the experience will be over.
*That* is my problem. I just don't see myself invested in it much past a single player experience with some small grouping. I *want* it to be a deep, rich game that can hold my attention for months...its been a long time since I have gotten a year out of an MMO...would love this to be the one, but doubt it.
I'm enjoying the production quality that the news/features is bringing out on this game as well as the anticipation that the world/stories will be truly massive.So I'm down to enjoy the ride!
That said I'm still worried by the core of the game: Combat and classes and faction pvp. Scenarios sound strong so far. And of course the space flight would be nice to hear a big confirmation asap that it will be expanded in the right way.
I'm cautiously ambivilent about the game...what does that mean?
At this point if anyone ISN'T cautiously optimistic (at best) about games, and are going full out fanboy, I don't know what they're thinking. After so many massive failures (of either the game sucking or the game not living up to people expectations), I know I can't get super excited about a game anymore. I'm somewhat optimistic about Tera, and pretty optimistic about GW2 (moreso because there are no sub fees if it's mediocre I can keep playing without paying), but nothing like how I was about Warhammer or AoC. I went into the Rift beta with no expectations, being "cautiously optimistic". Found out that the game was a solid, great game, but not one that I wanted to pay for. I wasn't dissapointed, because I stopped buying into all the hype.
I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan and when I heard Biowar+Star Wars+MMO I about wet myself with excitment. However, I was thinking I was going to be able to live in the Star Wars universe not progress through a heavily scripted game with others. That's just not what I want from a Star Wars MMO.
I might try this game and spend a month or two playing through the story and 'going about my business' then 'move along' to another MMO.
You do often go back and forth between stances in regards to certain titles. Many game players, most especially on this site see themselves as the core demographic and grade games based upon those preferences and ideals.
I've played games for just about as long as I remember, though it may be longer than I remember depending on how many times I was ACTUALLY dropped on my head as a child, but not to digress, growing up, even some of the worst games I've played had (in their own way) a kind of silver lining.
While some games I would totally agree aren't worth the purchase, I think its very tough for some to take into consideration that even for as bad as something might be, or how let down they may be because something didn't turn out quite they way they expected, most games are usually better then the average jaded player would give the developers credit for.
I visit many sites, and read through plenty of articles. I am a member of plenty of forums too, but I choose to come back and be a longstanding.. eh... "active member" here because for some strange, masochistic reason, I really enjoy the perspective of *most* of your writers, even when I don't agree with them.
That being said, the dissonant tone so many have for SWTOR or perceive MMORPG has, largely comes from a population of the most critical advocates in the MMORPG gaming genre (critical, not necessarily meaning negative) and they're just perceiving things how they always have. At extremes. Maybe there was a day when the average forum warrior could look at a game and not take a hard chiseled approach (the day was probably a holiday... one of the ones where they get presents...) but unfortunately, for most here, hope and excitement of any kind is quite literally too much to ask, and to others its all too little.
I love DA2 and that space one, for the pure fun of playing an interesting story, that combined with the social aspect of an MMO ticks most my boxes. I know its themepark, but dam I prefer to ride a roller coaster than build a sand castle.
I love DA2 and that space one, for the pure fun of playing an interesting story, that combined with the social aspect of an MMO ticks most my boxes. I know its themepark, but dam I prefer to ride a roller coaster than build a sand castle.
I too enjoyed Bioware's console games, but that doesn't mean they'll translate well into MMO's.
Think of it like this, you prefer a roller coaster to a sandcastle, but how many times do you want to re-ride the same coaster, and pay each time to do so? That is my biggest fear about how / why SWTOR will not be to sucess everyone hopes and prays and rants it will be..
Flame me as a hater if you will, but I don't see it being the big hit it's hype is trying to make it. Bioware could have made this same game for less than 1/2 the cost and launched it as a single player / console, and it would have been a huge sucess, smashing even Battlefront's numbers. However as a subscription based MMO how long will it keep it's playerbase?
The comment about how they are making a game to recapture the movies, and not an immersive world? I don't want a movie if it's that pre-quel crap we got a few years ago. Not even Bioware can fix Jar-Jar, and Midichlorians.
IP, and who's making it only get's you so much. for the game to be viable it has to RETAIN PLAYERS. STO and WAR had good initial sales, and yet they are not a sucess because they couldn't keep players. SWG is Star Wars, yet... Conan, Matrix the list goes on and on about IP's and who's comming out with the games..
Vanguard, and Tabula rasa both had designers whith previous sucess under their belts, but they too didn't suceed.
So IP, and who's doing the project alone will not draw a playerbase, and frankly many have criticized SWTOR as it's solo-game play theme park model kinda get's reinforced.
I know Bioware is known for their stories, but eliminating grouping on the starter worlds as it's 'YOUR STORY' does nothing to dispell the solo-play over MMO that SWTOR could be.
All this said, I'm still going to get it. I like good games, and I feel SWTOR will be a good well polished fun game. Just like Mass Effect was, and Morrowind, and LEGO Batman, Gears of War, etc. Am I chomping at the bits that this will be the next MMO to end my search? No.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR more from curiosity of the ranged tank the Trooper gameplay will bring, more than a Star Wars MMO, or it's Bioware.
I can only hope it holds my interest longer than Rift did.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
I think they will make their cash off box sales and a couple of months of subs from a reasonable base, after that it is diminishing returns. (I am guessing).
Personally, I am quite happy to leave a roller coaster behind having enjoyed the ride (maybe a couple of times, at least to get a picture where I am not crapping myself the second time).
There are some sandbox elements in the game that we know of:
-Choices you make in the game reflect your story arc
-Companions are literally yours to command in a variety of ways (gathering resources from far off planets, assisting in missions, crafting, etc. i.e. anyone can choose to utilize their companions in any way they wish)
And I'm sure there will be plenty more. But by the way, a full on sandbox theme is not necessarily the most fun or successful. UO doubled its subscription numbers as soon as it added Trammel (taking away forced pvp) and Lineage and UO are both unprofitable now or shut down. Sandbox elements in gameplay is obviously not enough to keep players interested. A hybrid of sandbox and "themepark" is probably the best solution, which I think most games are aiming for now. So can we stop with the "its not sandbox" qq already and be more constuctive? Post on the BioWare boards about sandbox elements you would like to see implemented in the future that know SWtOR is lacking currently.
I'm really getting tired of the people running around screaming WoW clone, it really shows these people are not even bothering to research the game before they come out to yell that. ToR has, companions who you send of missions that they complete while your offline, dark, light, and gray alignment + equipment that is alignment specific. Real time crafting, active cover, social points, cut scenes that show off the victors at the end of your warzones, unreal tourny style capture the objective pvp, branching path instances that change based on dialog choices, comendations for pvp, long distance interaction with quest npcs for the party, personal story quests with long term consequences, as well a codex with exploration rewards. WoW's got pretty much none of that, it is also an auto attack game, without story.
The game has come a long way since it was announced years ago, I suggest anyone thinking of playing ToR sign up for the Beta or preorder it for the beta when that comes around. If you don't like it then don't buy it, no one is putting a gun to your head to make you do it. Post DA2 I was pretty much going there is no way I am getting ToR, but after seeing what they have done I have changed my mind, I look forward to the game.
I don't see the staff as TOR haters at all. I think the entire staff is quite open and enjoy different things. They want to play fun games like anyone else. Cautious Optimism applies to EVERYGAME. TOR/TSW/GW2/Archage all have HUGE promises. The staff is willing to give all of them a chance. It seems some people are not willing to do the same for unbaised reasons. "GW2 isn't an MMO", "TOR is Mainstream", "Archage is a sandbox themepark, ew!" etc.
I do think most of the staff at LEAST gives things a fair view. They don't judge a game because it's indie, or Bioware, or Blizzard, or minecraft. If they enjoy it or not, they let it be known with PERSONAL reasons as well as pros/cons of the game unrelated to opinion.
But, outside of that, the posters on this forum, many of them have hate for TOR. They already "know" the game is bad. Yet they praise their game, with a tiny amount of players, or a different game that is not out yet. It's quite silly at times.
I think its a good article, overall we should all be excited for TOR as it could usher in a new era and style of MMOs. On the other hand I've played far to many games that have let me down so in my mind its always a good thing to go in cautious. So my hopes go with TOR and I'm very excited to see the game get released, Bioware has a lot of great upcoming products, TOR and ME3 both look great and if they live up to their promises because if they do their future will be bright.
i personally find it refreshing to see a company such as mmorpg speaking their minds and being honest about it all.. their are too many people in the gameing industry that walk round with their eyes shut telling their selves lies..
for instance take a look at all the wow fans, you knock on wow in a forum for so long and they all come out of the woodwork trying to find ways to say wow is the best mmo ever developped!!
how the hell do these guys know, most of them have only ever played wow or maybe at a push 4-5 mmorpg's in their entire lives. the answer is blind devoation, they are lieing to them selves based of information fed to them and the only experience they have of an mmo game..
its kinda sad really that people go to these lengths to support the things they personally like which is only because they havnt experienced anything more or better so they stick with what they know. its a common human flaw!.
i strongly recomend that every person playing mmo's tries all diffrent genres and types of play.. rather than just loving the first thing they see..
truth is, those that have patience find more fullfilment from a deep content filled game where they are incontrol than they do from games such as wow.
i dont hate wow i despise it, wow is the sole reason for all these half hearted games we see today, wow set the industry standard for proffits and sales so naturally the way they have done things is very appealing to smaller companies and larger companies alike, the result is every one c ashing in that particular style of game creation. and the result is a market flooded with lots of the same products with slightly diffrent variations.. this means all the good games get covered over and hid away under the rubble of this wow crap and its clones.
and swtor looks and sounds and unfolds just the same as wow!! its not new its not diffrent its the same exact thing we have been getting for the past 6-7 years. mundane hand held game play that ends..
eve doesnt end darkfall doesnt mortal online doesnt end..... they are propper mmo's they give the player power and control they allow you to fully explore the potential of an unrestricted fantasy world.. thats what an mmo is supposed to be.
i guess people today are so lacking in imagination that they are simply incapable of thinking for them selves and makeing their own decisions. and the developers of wow lotro rift and all those other clones know this.
I do not care if its a MMO "enabled" version of the DragonAge2/ME3, it will be fun. After I am done going through a few of the strories, and notice there is no "elder game" I am fine with that. If I quit an MMO or did not atleast try it because of something trival, like space combat or innovative pvp, I would never play another MMO again. The only competiton for my buck against this game thats not ME3, Diablo 3, or Skyrim is GW2, and GW2 does not look as innovative as it would have you believe.
I really suspect that SWTOR might just fail miserably. They (Bioware / EA) are being far too secretive about their game. And they are, by their own admission, "worried" about the "competition. So they are holding off, second guessing themselves, and finding reasons to delay the release... Until there is some competition. At which point they will fail, just like they thought they would. Because people will be tired of their hype, and other games like Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 will syphon off enough of the market for them to come in far below their initial expectations. And when that happens EA will mandate changes that will wreck most of the "community" that try to stick it out.
See, what they've done is lost their "vision" for what SWTOR should be. And without that vision its inevitable that they will fail. Because nothing great has ever been accomplished without vision and the will to see it made reality.
"Cautious Optimism" is perfect for staying in neutral territory and not making any predictions good or bad.
Now what is your opinion today if this game turns out to be just ok or decent but nothing groundbreaking? Would the review say well it will improve over time (pay to play beta mode like some games are released). I hope not but what are the chances for that scenario happening?
I really suspect that SWTOR might just fail miserably. They (Bioware / EA) are being far too secretive about their game. And they are, by their own admission, "worried" about the "competition. So they are holding off, second guessing themselves, and finding reasons to delay the release... Until there is some competition. At which point they will fail, just like they thought they would. Because people will be tired of their hype, and other games like Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 will syphon off enough of the market for them to come in far below their initial expectations. And when that happens EA will mandate changes that will wreck most of the "community" that try to stick it out.
See, what they've done is lost their "vision" for what SWTOR should be. And without that vision its inevitable that they will fail. Because nothing great has ever been accomplished without vision and the will to see it made reality.
Did you just criticize Bioware for prolonged hype and mention Diablo 3 in the same paragraph? On second glance you did.... Wow... just wow.
How can you say they lost their vision? WIthout actually seeing the end result?
Bioware has always been known to delay as much as possible, just as Blizzard does, that's what separates studios such as them from the rest..uhg why bother...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Here is my problem with TOR. They will never be able to add the kind of voice over story content after the game is released that will keep elder players playing. That is why I have said repeatedly that what TOR is on release is NOT as important to me in the longrun as what path the developers will take with the game.
They can not keep up with player desire for content, IMO without shifting over to the "living breathing world" to immerse yourself in model. In other words, they are going to have to add meta game sand box elements that allow players the facilitites to create their own content. Player cities, house decorating, a real crafting system, a real space system with player crafted ships, guild controlled capital ships or space stations, and real GCW with meaningful mechanics...those are the things, IMO, that TOR will have ot gravitate towards if it wants to continue to provide value to its subscriber base.
I fully expect the stories to be great. I look forward to playing through them all. But if we know one thing, it is that players will play through them infinitely faster they BW will be able to keep creating them....
Translation: it's no sandbox. There is no real endgame content. But it's a great fun while you play it! The goal of the game is not to reach top levels because there is nowhere to go from there; it's the journey itself that is fun and focus in this game!
And you know, it's great. I'm sooooo buying it at launch. I'm not going to subscribe, but I want to play through it at least twice, may be 4 times. A month will be enough, and it will be well worth my money.
I can't speak for anyone else but you can meet some pretty strongly cynical people in this industry so if you're looking for that there are quite a few people out there more than happy to take a glass half empty approach to things. That doesn't mean we won't call a spade a spade, we just don't lean towards looking for reasons to be negative about a game, even if that does make for good traffic.
With me, I shoot it as I see it. If you've been following my SWTOR articles since I started writing here they've been all over the place. If there is something I don't like, I'll write about it, if I'm ecstatic about something, I'll write about it too. I don't think anyone here who's actually read my stuff can say I've been hyping the game up or crapping on it every turn. Sure, my coverage coming out of the recent Immersion Days event was overwhelmingly positive. Why? I had a good time, the game looked good, that's all there was to it. At the same time I spent several articles blasting BioWare in the past for their approach to space combat (among many other things); it cuts both ways.
However, as far as an overall outlook goes, no, I don't have that cynical bias towards the genre, though I understand and appreciate the fact that many gamers do. After all, most of us have reason to be with how often we've been burned. I get it . I know what it's like following a game for years in the hopes it will be a solid place to hopefully serve as your virtual home away from home for perhaps years and years to come only for it to turn out to be a massive failure. I've made the friends that could last a lifetime in my MMO travels, I know why many of you guys pine for the olden days, and I understand that the trend of MMO design in recent history can sometimes be contrary to creating such an experience. Even so, I choose to write about this genre as a profession, so what's the point for me in simply being cynical? It seems kind of pointless to me. Despite all the canceled games, undelivered promises, and genuine screwups I stillI love MMOs and what they uniquely represent as a genre, and so I genuinely believe there are good times ahead. I prefer this outlook to just dwelling on the good times of the past and passing off all the new stuff as simple dreck by default. Would you really want us to be that way?
As a Star Wars fan it was Star Wars Galaxies that finally drew me into the genre and got me to try out an MMO and I was there for years hoping it'd get better while it mostly got worse (and then it REALLY got worse!). I've been there. I've felt the brunt of that particular burn, but I've moved on. I still believe there is yet more to see and more fun to be had and so I keep an open mind when looking at new games, especially so when they're being developed in ways that challenge the traditional way of doing MMOs.
Let's face it, the genre is still super young, I'm not going to get hung up on the way things were or have been, but it also doesn't mean I don't want those things or that I can no longer appreciate them. I'd love it if TOR were a sandbox like SWG was, but that just isn't what the game is. Should I bash it continuously because of that? No, and I would hope you wouldn't want me or us a publication to do so. We all have our biases and preferences, but I feel confident speaking for the team in saying that we try to keep a positive outlook nonetheless. I think we do it for our own sakes and especially for our readership. We know you want us to be fair and give it to you straight and we take a lot of pride in that responsibility. When we cover a game we know that if you're reading our articles you're putting a certain amount of stock in what we have to say, there's a certain trust relationship there, and we would never violate that. Take that as lip service if you like, but when I go out to shows I always think about what you guys would want to see or hear about, I don't care about what they want to talk about or what they'll think about what I have to say when I come back and write my piece. It's also why I come back with crappy shakycam videos when it's either that or nothing, it's the thought that counts! (I hope. :P)
Apologies for the TL;DR post!
This is sort of what I expect as well. I will buy it, play it, and enjoy it, then the experience will be over.
*That* is my problem. I just don't see myself invested in it much past a single player experience with some small grouping. I *want* it to be a deep, rich game that can hold my attention for months...its been a long time since I have gotten a year out of an MMO...would love this to be the one, but doubt it.
I'm enjoying the production quality that the news/features is bringing out on this game as well as the anticipation that the world/stories will be truly massive.So I'm down to enjoy the ride!
That said I'm still worried by the core of the game: Combat and classes and faction pvp. Scenarios sound strong so far. And of course the space flight would be nice to hear a big confirmation asap that it will be expanded in the right way.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I'm cautiously ambivilent about the game...what does that mean?
At this point if anyone ISN'T cautiously optimistic (at best) about games, and are going full out fanboy, I don't know what they're thinking. After so many massive failures (of either the game sucking or the game not living up to people expectations), I know I can't get super excited about a game anymore. I'm somewhat optimistic about Tera, and pretty optimistic about GW2 (moreso because there are no sub fees if it's mediocre I can keep playing without paying), but nothing like how I was about Warhammer or AoC. I went into the Rift beta with no expectations, being "cautiously optimistic". Found out that the game was a solid, great game, but not one that I wanted to pay for. I wasn't dissapointed, because I stopped buying into all the hype.
I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan and when I heard Biowar+Star Wars+MMO I about wet myself with excitment. However, I was thinking I was going to be able to live in the Star Wars universe not progress through a heavily scripted game with others. That's just not what I want from a Star Wars MMO.
I might try this game and spend a month or two playing through the story and 'going about my business' then 'move along' to another MMO.
I know Bioware can craft a good story, but I hope they put a little of sandbox in the game.
Also end game. Fantasy games seem to do end game much better with grouping, raids and bosses more so then scifi.
If star wars doesn't have some sort of lare scale raids, its going to lose alot of people.
I am looking forward to SW and hope its good. I just hope they keep those things in mind which retain subscribers.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
You do often go back and forth between stances in regards to certain titles. Many game players, most especially on this site see themselves as the core demographic and grade games based upon those preferences and ideals.
I've played games for just about as long as I remember, though it may be longer than I remember depending on how many times I was ACTUALLY dropped on my head as a child, but not to digress, growing up, even some of the worst games I've played had (in their own way) a kind of silver lining.
While some games I would totally agree aren't worth the purchase, I think its very tough for some to take into consideration that even for as bad as something might be, or how let down they may be because something didn't turn out quite they way they expected, most games are usually better then the average jaded player would give the developers credit for.
I visit many sites, and read through plenty of articles. I am a member of plenty of forums too, but I choose to come back and be a longstanding.. eh... "active member" here because for some strange, masochistic reason, I really enjoy the perspective of *most* of your writers, even when I don't agree with them.
That being said, the dissonant tone so many have for SWTOR or perceive MMORPG has, largely comes from a population of the most critical advocates in the MMORPG gaming genre (critical, not necessarily meaning negative) and they're just perceiving things how they always have. At extremes. Maybe there was a day when the average forum warrior could look at a game and not take a hard chiseled approach (the day was probably a holiday... one of the ones where they get presents...) but unfortunately, for most here, hope and excitement of any kind is quite literally too much to ask, and to others its all too little.
My sister in law who never plays any computer games is excited about this game. that should tell you all you need to know.
Personally, I think playing a Sith Marauder is going to be fun.
Fun, remember that? I do.
TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!
Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!
I love DA2 and that space one, for the pure fun of playing an interesting story, that combined with the social aspect of an MMO ticks most my boxes. I know its themepark, but dam I prefer to ride a roller coaster than build a sand castle.
Chins
I too enjoyed Bioware's console games, but that doesn't mean they'll translate well into MMO's.
Think of it like this, you prefer a roller coaster to a sandcastle, but how many times do you want to re-ride the same coaster, and pay each time to do so? That is my biggest fear about how / why SWTOR will not be to sucess everyone hopes and prays and rants it will be..
Flame me as a hater if you will, but I don't see it being the big hit it's hype is trying to make it. Bioware could have made this same game for less than 1/2 the cost and launched it as a single player / console, and it would have been a huge sucess, smashing even Battlefront's numbers. However as a subscription based MMO how long will it keep it's playerbase?
The comment about how they are making a game to recapture the movies, and not an immersive world? I don't want a movie if it's that pre-quel crap we got a few years ago. Not even Bioware can fix Jar-Jar, and Midichlorians.
IP, and who's making it only get's you so much. for the game to be viable it has to RETAIN PLAYERS. STO and WAR had good initial sales, and yet they are not a sucess because they couldn't keep players. SWG is Star Wars, yet... Conan, Matrix the list goes on and on about IP's and who's comming out with the games..
Vanguard, and Tabula rasa both had designers whith previous sucess under their belts, but they too didn't suceed.
So IP, and who's doing the project alone will not draw a playerbase, and frankly many have criticized SWTOR as it's solo-game play theme park model kinda get's reinforced.
I know Bioware is known for their stories, but eliminating grouping on the starter worlds as it's 'YOUR STORY' does nothing to dispell the solo-play over MMO that SWTOR could be.
All this said, I'm still going to get it. I like good games, and I feel SWTOR will be a good well polished fun game. Just like Mass Effect was, and Morrowind, and LEGO Batman, Gears of War, etc. Am I chomping at the bits that this will be the next MMO to end my search? No.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR more from curiosity of the ranged tank the Trooper gameplay will bring, more than a Star Wars MMO, or it's Bioware.
I can only hope it holds my interest longer than Rift did.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
I think they will make their cash off box sales and a couple of months of subs from a reasonable base, after that it is diminishing returns. (I am guessing).
Personally, I am quite happy to leave a roller coaster behind having enjoyed the ride (maybe a couple of times, at least to get a picture where I am not crapping myself the second time).
Chins
There are some sandbox elements in the game that we know of:
-Choices you make in the game reflect your story arc
-Companions are literally yours to command in a variety of ways (gathering resources from far off planets, assisting in missions, crafting, etc. i.e. anyone can choose to utilize their companions in any way they wish)
And I'm sure there will be plenty more. But by the way, a full on sandbox theme is not necessarily the most fun or successful. UO doubled its subscription numbers as soon as it added Trammel (taking away forced pvp) and Lineage and UO are both unprofitable now or shut down. Sandbox elements in gameplay is obviously not enough to keep players interested. A hybrid of sandbox and "themepark" is probably the best solution, which I think most games are aiming for now. So can we stop with the "its not sandbox" qq already and be more constuctive? Post on the BioWare boards about sandbox elements you would like to see implemented in the future that know SWtOR is lacking currently.
I'm really getting tired of the people running around screaming WoW clone, it really shows these people are not even bothering to research the game before they come out to yell that. ToR has, companions who you send of missions that they complete while your offline, dark, light, and gray alignment + equipment that is alignment specific. Real time crafting, active cover, social points, cut scenes that show off the victors at the end of your warzones, unreal tourny style capture the objective pvp, branching path instances that change based on dialog choices, comendations for pvp, long distance interaction with quest npcs for the party, personal story quests with long term consequences, as well a codex with exploration rewards. WoW's got pretty much none of that, it is also an auto attack game, without story.
The game has come a long way since it was announced years ago, I suggest anyone thinking of playing ToR sign up for the Beta or preorder it for the beta when that comes around. If you don't like it then don't buy it, no one is putting a gun to your head to make you do it. Post DA2 I was pretty much going there is no way I am getting ToR, but after seeing what they have done I have changed my mind, I look forward to the game.
I don't see the staff as TOR haters at all. I think the entire staff is quite open and enjoy different things. They want to play fun games like anyone else. Cautious Optimism applies to EVERYGAME. TOR/TSW/GW2/Archage all have HUGE promises. The staff is willing to give all of them a chance. It seems some people are not willing to do the same for unbaised reasons. "GW2 isn't an MMO", "TOR is Mainstream", "Archage is a sandbox themepark, ew!" etc.
I do think most of the staff at LEAST gives things a fair view. They don't judge a game because it's indie, or Bioware, or Blizzard, or minecraft. If they enjoy it or not, they let it be known with PERSONAL reasons as well as pros/cons of the game unrelated to opinion.
But, outside of that, the posters on this forum, many of them have hate for TOR. They already "know" the game is bad. Yet they praise their game, with a tiny amount of players, or a different game that is not out yet. It's quite silly at times.
I think its a good article, overall we should all be excited for TOR as it could usher in a new era and style of MMOs. On the other hand I've played far to many games that have let me down so in my mind its always a good thing to go in cautious. So my hopes go with TOR and I'm very excited to see the game get released, Bioware has a lot of great upcoming products, TOR and ME3 both look great and if they live up to their promises because if they do their future will be bright.
hopefully TOR will be the one to dethrone wow... then the industry can move on and we can all quit this clone bs... >_<
I just wish that TOR had an offline version, as the personal stories and the setting are really the only things that draw me to this game.
i personally find it refreshing to see a company such as mmorpg speaking their minds and being honest about it all.. their are too many people in the gameing industry that walk round with their eyes shut telling their selves lies..
for instance take a look at all the wow fans, you knock on wow in a forum for so long and they all come out of the woodwork trying to find ways to say wow is the best mmo ever developped!!
how the hell do these guys know, most of them have only ever played wow or maybe at a push 4-5 mmorpg's in their entire lives. the answer is blind devoation, they are lieing to them selves based of information fed to them and the only experience they have of an mmo game..
its kinda sad really that people go to these lengths to support the things they personally like which is only because they havnt experienced anything more or better so they stick with what they know. its a common human flaw!.
i strongly recomend that every person playing mmo's tries all diffrent genres and types of play.. rather than just loving the first thing they see..
truth is, those that have patience find more fullfilment from a deep content filled game where they are incontrol than they do from games such as wow.
i dont hate wow i despise it, wow is the sole reason for all these half hearted games we see today, wow set the industry standard for proffits and sales so naturally the way they have done things is very appealing to smaller companies and larger companies alike, the result is every one c ashing in that particular style of game creation. and the result is a market flooded with lots of the same products with slightly diffrent variations.. this means all the good games get covered over and hid away under the rubble of this wow crap and its clones.
and swtor looks and sounds and unfolds just the same as wow!! its not new its not diffrent its the same exact thing we have been getting for the past 6-7 years. mundane hand held game play that ends..
eve doesnt end darkfall doesnt mortal online doesnt end..... they are propper mmo's they give the player power and control they allow you to fully explore the potential of an unrestricted fantasy world.. thats what an mmo is supposed to be.
i guess people today are so lacking in imagination that they are simply incapable of thinking for them selves and makeing their own decisions. and the developers of wow lotro rift and all those other clones know this.
I do not care if its a MMO "enabled" version of the DragonAge2/ME3, it will be fun. After I am done going through a few of the strories, and notice there is no "elder game" I am fine with that. If I quit an MMO or did not atleast try it because of something trival, like space combat or innovative pvp, I would never play another MMO again. The only competiton for my buck against this game thats not ME3, Diablo 3, or Skyrim is GW2, and GW2 does not look as innovative as it would have you believe.
I really suspect that SWTOR might just fail miserably. They (Bioware / EA) are being far too secretive about their game. And they are, by their own admission, "worried" about the "competition. So they are holding off, second guessing themselves, and finding reasons to delay the release... Until there is some competition. At which point they will fail, just like they thought they would. Because people will be tired of their hype, and other games like Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 will syphon off enough of the market for them to come in far below their initial expectations. And when that happens EA will mandate changes that will wreck most of the "community" that try to stick it out.
See, what they've done is lost their "vision" for what SWTOR should be. And without that vision its inevitable that they will fail. Because nothing great has ever been accomplished without vision and the will to see it made reality.
"Cautious Optimism" is perfect for staying in neutral territory and not making any predictions good or bad.
Now what is your opinion today if this game turns out to be just ok or decent but nothing groundbreaking? Would the review say well it will improve over time (pay to play beta mode like some games are released). I hope not but what are the chances for that scenario happening?
All I got to say is Outfit Tab and some more alien'ish races. other than that the games looking good imo.
I actually like the art style they chose. Not really cartoony but not to real either.
Did you just criticize Bioware for prolonged hype and mention Diablo 3 in the same paragraph? On second glance you did.... Wow... just wow.
How can you say they lost their vision? WIthout actually seeing the end result?
Bioware has always been known to delay as much as possible, just as Blizzard does, that's what separates studios such as them from the rest..uhg why bother...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson