I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Dont forget it was back then one first real mmo's you could play and that was offcorse awesome so most who start with UO wanne get that feeling back but that will never happen again im affraid.
I continually come to this site and see people repeating this over and over again in as many ways as it can be typed! It's a generalization and isn't true for all of us by far I'd wager. I enjoyed original EQ just as much as UO although they were very different games! I enjoyed both precisely because they were very different games! Even WoW had some uniqueness to it when it first launched (albeit not too much). Seems to me alot of the old school gamers aren't raving about the newer games because they don't offer much in the way of revolutionary game play.
I would have to disagree.
Many new MMO have offered new features. Its just that each time they do, people will over look them.
Well the rest of the community vents about what they want, let's hear what UO fans wants. I am a bit confused by their desire. I am sure MMORPG developers would be as well. I assumed UO fans simply wanted the hardcore death penalty that came with it, but there are many MMORPG with that, including TP MMORPG have that. But that still makes them uphappy.
Your confusion lies in thinking that harsh death penalty is a primary or even significant desire from the majority of UO fans.
- functional player owned structures in the game world
- guild-defined GvG objectives and win conditions as well as FFA with reasonably safe areas.
- locations/structures for gatherings and social interactions
- quick and easy travel to get to where the event or action is
- developer run live events (dedicated Content Team and Seer program)
- player owned shops and vendors
- freeform storage containers
- near endless storage compared to today's MMOs. For example, the smallest of houses can store over 800 item stacks.
- active combat that makes use of mounts, terrain and line of sight
- if you liked a look on Day 1, there were often still ways to maintain that look even years later without it negatively impacting stats.
There's a long list of features that UO fans desire - harsh death penalty is one of them, but it is really far down on the list for anyone but the most diehard of PvPers.
wait, out of that list, which cant you do in Darkfall/ MO?
- functional player owned structures in the game world
You could have these in DF, but they weren't the same as UO...see my post above.
- guild-defined GvG objectives and win conditions as well as FFA with reasonably safe areas.
DF is more just FFA guild combat. There are kind of objectives to beat the other guilds but nothing really defined. Also, DF has no safe areas . Even cities aren't really "safe."
- locations/structures for gatherings and social interactions
Yah DF has these via the guild cities. Still, I think the chat system in DF is a major hindrance to social interaction.
- the ability to carve out one's space
DF does not have this. You can buy a house in a pre-determined plot, but you're not "carving out" your space in the world. You're just buying a pre-made house and plot.
- dynamic. enhanceable loot
I don't recall that DF had enhanceable loot...but I'm not sure.
- quick and easy travel to get to where the event or action is
OMG did DF not have this. Travel in DF is PAAAAINFUL. You have to walk or ride EVERYWHERE.
- developer run live events (dedicated Content Team and Seer program)
If DF has these, I never noticed.
- player owned shops and vendors
DF has these but on an extremely limited basis. LIke I said before, you can buy houses in pre-determined plots, but they are few and far between (at least they were when I played).
- freeform storage containers
I don't think DF has these at all. Just a bank.
- near endless storage compared to today's MMOs. For example, the smallest of houses can store over 800 item stacks.
DF has a bank, but that's it AFAIK.
- active combat that makes use of mounts, terrain and line of sight
The combat in DF actually meets all these criteria.
- if you liked a look on Day 1, there were often still ways to maintain that look even years later without it negatively impacting stats.
I don't think you can do this in DF, if you are wearing plate armor, you look like you're in plate armor.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Dont forget it was back then one first real mmo's you could play and that was offcorse awesome so most who start with UO wanne get that feeling back but that will never happen again im affraid.
I continually come to this site and see people repeating this over and over again in as many ways as it can be typed! It's a generalization and isn't true for all of us by far I'd wager. I enjoyed original EQ just as much as UO although they were very different games! I enjoyed both precisely because they were very different games! Even WoW had some uniqueness to it when it first launched (albeit not too much). Seems to me alot of the old school gamers aren't raving about the newer games because they don't offer much in the way of revolutionary game play.
I would have to disagree.
Many new MMO have offered new features. Its just that each time they do, people will over look them.
*Warhammer's new = Plubic Quest+ 2 faction RvR ruleset
*Rift's new = Dynamic World/Zone events + New Talent Tree System
just to name a few of the recent names out there.
All these games had a couple new features but were the same over all experience as preceeding games! People also liked some of the things in your list for some reasons but not for others. I.e. WoW's new Instanced Raiding - Some people liked being free from the guild v guild competition for raid encounters found in EQ yet some missed it. They were still massive guild raid encounters so not much change there. Anything else?
P.S. Instanced raiding is partly to blame for every class looking the exact same at end game (for the most part). This was a large detractor from its appeal for some gamers. Also nothing, besides Thunderfury (maybe ZG trinkets), was even really rare or stood out like really rare loot from older games! For example, I'm pretty sure I could count on one hand the number of players who had completed Plane of Sky quests before Kunarks release in EQ.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
"Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves."
I don't think this is true. The developers have made it pretty clear that their game is built upon PvP and will revolve around such - same thing with Mortal. Most of Darkfall's patch notes reflect that. Hey, people that enjoy that, have a blast because I don't expect the developers to change their focus because they seem content with what they have.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
"Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves."
I don't think this is true. The developers have made it pretty clear that their game is built upon PvP and will revolve around such - same thing with Mortal. Most of Darkfall's patch notes reflect that.
Uohaloran is correct in this instance. Darkfall has little else to do besides PvP! Try it for yourself if you think differently.
I want MiBs, T-Maps, Player run shops / inns, taming mounts / mounts that don't magically appear, player created towns, houses that can be decorated anyway you want, stealing from players bags, free for all skill based pvp with a good "PK / Red" system...
Hell .... I Want UO (Pre-Tram) recreated exactly as it was except in 3D with Modern graphics.
You and every other UO fan out there... me included.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
Um,,, WoW also has PvP. Doens that make it s PvP focused MMORPG?
Really? By your definition, it would be, since the developers have PvP in it.
I want MiBs, T-Maps, Player run shops / inns, taming mounts / mounts that don't magically appear, player created towns, houses that can be decorated anyway you want, stealing from players bags, free for all skill based pvp with a good "PK / Red" system...
Hell .... I Want UO (Pre-Tram) recreated exactly as it was except in 3D with Modern graphics.
You and every other UO fan out there... me included.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Darkfall is a PvP fest for a few reasons, all basically caused by the developers/marketers:
1. Darkfall has full loot and laughable consequences for ganking. This means you stand to gain a lot from killing other players. This, more than anything, makes it a PvP fest.
2. There really isn't much to do beyond PvP. The PvE content in DF is fairly bad. It mainly consists of is fighting MOBs typically out in the open. There are dungeons, but they aren't very exciting. Also, the level of world interactivity and player housing is so much lower than UO that it's not really attractive. Crafting is also a bit of a bear in DF.
3. The game is marketed as being "hardcore, full loot." This attracted a lot of people looking to "gank" other players and immediately soured the community.
4. It takes a ridiculous amount of grinding to get your character anywhere near being remotely effective in PvP. This makes it pretty safe for experienced players to gank lowbies en masse.
You can't blame the players for DF being a PvP fest. Also, just because a game is marketed as a sand box doesn't mean that the players decide how it will turn out. A sandbox game is still a game, and has rules just like a theme park game. If those rules make it conducive to being a gank fest, then that's what it will be.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
Um,,, WoW also has PvP. Doens that make it s PvP focused MMORPG?
Really? By your definition, it would be, since the developers have PvP in it.
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
[Mod Edit]
I think he was trying to argue that Darkfall and MO are good successors to UO, so UO fans are just pointelessly whining.
This just simply isn't true. Darkfall and MO are a far cry from UO, and I think many of the points made in this thread illustrate why. If there was a really good successor to UO, I think all of us UO fans would be playing it, or already have burned ourselves out with it and be whining about something else .
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
[Mod Edit]
I think he was trying to argue that Darkfall and MO are good successors to UO, so UO fans are just pointelessly whining.
This just simply isn't true. Darkfall and MO are a far cry from UO, and I think many of the points made in this thread illustrate why. If there was a really good successor to UO, I think all of us UO fans would be playing it, or already have burned ourselves out with it and be whining about something else .
I agree. His assessment seems to stem from the perception that UO was solely a PVP game and that the PVP penalties were what people wanted from it. The PvE and social aspects of UO are far more pined for than the PVP. Even when it comes to PVP, what is offered in MO and DF is a mere fraction of what UO has had for 6 or 7 years now.
.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
[Mod Edit]
I think he was trying to argue that Darkfall and MO are good successors to UO, so UO fans are just pointelessly whin
This just simply isn't true. Darkfall and MO are a far cry from UO, and I think many of the points made in this thread illustrate why. If there was a really good successor to UO, I think all of us UO fans would be playing it, or already have burned ourselves out with it and be whining about something else .
Let's all go watch the old UO 2 game play/design video and RAGE about how the game was never finished =(!
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
I think he was trying to argue that Darkfall and MO are good successors to UO, so UO fans are just pointelessly whining.
This just simply isn't true. Darkfall and MO are a far cry from UO, and I think many of the points made in this thread illustrate why. If there was a really good successor to UO, I think all of us UO fans would be playing it, or already have burned ourselves out with it and be whining about something else .
Let's all go watch the old UO 2 game play/design video and RAGE about how the game was never finished =(!
I want MiBs, T-Maps, Player run shops / inns, taming mounts / mounts that don't magically appear, player created towns, houses that can be decorated anyway you want, stealing from players bags, free for all skill based pvp with a good "PK / Red" system...
Hell .... I Want UO (Pre-Tram) recreated exactly as it was except in 3D with Modern graphics.
Would you accept that without the PKing/looting/drive-by-thieves and a lot more players?
Excuse me for jumping in here, but personally the answer to that would be an emphatic... NO.
Why do peope feel the need to chase masses of subs at the cost of the dynamics of a game? You could probably get a lot more players by making it a themepark with a cash shop, I wouldn't want that crap either.
First off, I edited my post, I know you couldn't have seen that. But secondly, how good do you want the game? The masses matter, and "UO done right" could draw them.
Yeah, I missed the edit I'm afraid.
"Done right" in whose eyes exactly? For the poster you were questioning it seems like he prefered the pre Tram, more open pvp. I feel the same. I'd rather not see the game or it's like again then some bastardized version made to land grab as many casuals as possible. Others, will ofc, have a different view on that matter though ofc.
As for the 'masses matter' well not really, not unless you are actively chasing the Wow dollar. As long as a game has a healthy enough population for it to run, the 'masses' matter not a jot.
I was there and talked to alot of people who left. I was part of a huge roleplay/semi-roleplay community, so there was a lot to draw from.
What I gathered was that UO was almost there with their justice system. It was working very well as far as limiting the rampant PKing, yet allowing for confrontations when it mattered according to a "worldly" view. The primary thing people were leaving for was that there were a few abuses left in the system.
PKers had "counts" of murders, and they could stay in ghost form and work them off by sitting at a bank unattended, 24/7 (or as close as you could get with the daily maintenance), thus skirting the "punishment".
PKers could steal from you and if you attacked them, and they then killed you, you could not give them a murder count. This cause players to be forced to leave areas they wanted to be in because they felt helpless against characters built to PK this way.
Thieves could target items in your backpack safely, then run by you and macro the "steal", again leaving players feeling helpless.
Thieves could steal items from you at the bank, and quickly drop it into their own banks, thus even though they got guard whacked or killed by players, they got your item. Which might be a very good item.
Even so, most of this was limited due to the system. But by that time, most players were simply fed up with it all, and EQ was out. I don't know how many times leaving players told me that they liked UO better overall, but they simply had enough.
I don't think that "casuals" in that form are as abundant as most people claim. Most players who claim to be casual simply mean they can't play as much as others.
But the "masses" are possible for a great game like UO was, only better, and without the loopholes in the justice system. Because without the loopholes, players could then work with the justice system, bringing players closer together in a socailly interactive way that no game has yet shown, not even old UO. And I think most players would like this, but don't know it yet because they simply have never seen anything like it. It allows for crime, and a more realistic world, and for things to "be happening" that brings the world more alive.
I do think that a game like UO in worldiness, without PKing at all, but with restricted warfare, would draw even more players. Only because of the bad stigma that PKers have given the whole PvP thing.
And come on people. Masses do matter. It's what drives profits and allows for more and better additional game content.
Well, first off, the PKs waiting off murder counts as ghosts kept them out of comission for a while. So that wasnt such a bad thing. If they had kept stat loss in, it would have helped even more to keep them down for longer periods of time while they had to retrain their character back up.
As for the theives, I never had much problem with them, mostly because I knew not to stand too close to anyone and to bank while hidden. Anyone else worth their salt knew to do the same as well. Thanks to the whiners who couldnt handle the theives, one of the most ineresting aspects of the game got completely wiped out.
Youre idea to eliminate open PvP is a bad one. Games where there is no PvP opens the door wide for one of the biggest problems in MMORPGs today:
Gold farmers
Because there is no threat to their bot characters, or in the case of asia, their sweatshop workers, they are free to camp one area continuously and farm gold unopposed. When people see these bots, there is nothing they can do to stop them. Call a GM? HA, that never works. You usually end up sitting there for 2 hours until the system finally gives you an automated response saying there is no issue to be dealt with, or that there arent any GMs available to answer your call and your ticket gets closed. Thus, the gold farmer is free to continue to farm then turn around and sell it all. This causes inflation which causes prices to go up which kills the game's economy.
But, with open PvP, when a player sees Mr. Bot or Mr. Sweatshop worker, they are free to attack and kill them. the bot is stuck in a program loop trying to attack things while dead, and the sweatshop worker gets beaten for their incompetance. With open PvP, gold farming gets derailed.
For those who complain about gank squads, form your own and fight back. Play the Role of a peacekeeper and drive off the trouble makers.
Darkfall is an empty shell compared to UO, you just cannot compare them, they are both in an other scale.
Uo was a very rich environement for the players, you could be a theif or someone that caught theives, you could have a pack of wolfs or dragons, you could be a miner. And it was not just about claiming right, you really had some tool ingame to sustain your role. It wasn't those stupid fluff we have now; like in L2, man they made a treasure hunter class, what a joke. A treasure hunter in Uo, you had a full and rich environement for them, you could choose many builds to make one, many way to acheive that. What is a treasure hunter in Darkfall? As i said those game are simply at an other level. Darkfall is an emty shell compared to uo, and a feature list won't help to spot the difference. Its about game design, developer and players; but since you can't change much the players that the rest that is at fault.
Uo was made as a simulation of a living world, go read wikipedia about Uo and you will understand maybe. And even if in wikipedia the designer seam to think that was a lost cause to make it that way, it wasn't. Those concept is what is missing in our mmos today to make them anywhere close to interesting. So if you try to understand that with a list of feature your are going in a dead end, you must talk and see the concept(s) being it to understand it fully i think.
I want a true sequel to UO2, not what garriott was working on, that was an abomination, and I am saying this as a garriott disciple. I want it brought into this century and I still want it to be isometric perspective, because quite frankly there is infinitely more they can do with the gameplay if it is not total 3d.
Comments
I'm through with noncon PvP. It's not a matter of the mechanics, but rather the communities these games harbor now.
Darkfall and Mortal both are geared towards PvP. In UO the PvP was natural, so by pushing your game as being a PvP experience, you'll attract the crowd that has seemed to follow me from game to game since Shadowbane.
If the Darkfall devs had PvE developers and PvP developers, I'd most certainly be playing it right now. I loved everything about it apart from the very heavy focus on PvP.
I would have to disagree.
Many new MMO have offered new features. Its just that each time they do, people will over look them.
lets take a look.
*WoW's new = Instanced Raid Endgame + Quest focus leveling+ Phase tech
*LoTRO's new = PvE only with monster play
*AoC's new = Combo system
*Warhammer's new = Plubic Quest+ 2 faction RvR ruleset
*Rift's new = Dynamic World/Zone events + New Talent Tree System
just to name a few of the recent names out there.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
While I don't deny newer MMOs have made some strides into making this a better genre, those examples seem pretty minor in the scale of things.
- functional player owned structures in the game world
You could have these in DF, but they weren't the same as UO...see my post above.
- guild-defined GvG objectives and win conditions as well as FFA with reasonably safe areas.
DF is more just FFA guild combat. There are kind of objectives to beat the other guilds but nothing really defined. Also, DF has no safe areas
. Even cities aren't really "safe."
- locations/structures for gatherings and social interactions
Yah DF has these via the guild cities. Still, I think the chat system in DF is a major hindrance to social interaction.
- the ability to carve out one's space
DF does not have this. You can buy a house in a pre-determined plot, but you're not "carving out" your space in the world. You're just buying a pre-made house and plot.
- dynamic. enhanceable loot
I don't recall that DF had enhanceable loot...but I'm not sure.
- actual rogue skills : trapping, detecting traps, lock picking, disguises, snooping, stealth, stealing
DF didn't have any of these.
- quick and easy travel to get to where the event or action is
OMG did DF not have this. Travel in DF is PAAAAINFUL. You have to walk or ride EVERYWHERE.
- developer run live events (dedicated Content Team and Seer program)
If DF has these, I never noticed.
- player owned shops and vendors
DF has these but on an extremely limited basis. LIke I said before, you can buy houses in pre-determined plots, but they are few and far between (at least they were when I played).
- freeform storage containers
I don't think DF has these at all. Just a bank.
- near endless storage compared to today's MMOs. For example, the smallest of houses can store over 800 item stacks.
DF has a bank, but that's it AFAIK.
- active combat that makes use of mounts, terrain and line of sight
The combat in DF actually meets all these criteria.
- if you liked a look on Day 1, there were often still ways to maintain that look even years later without it negatively impacting stats.
I don't think you can do this in DF, if you are wearing plate armor, you look like you're in plate armor.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Wait, I disagree.
Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves.
Darkfall has PvE elements right?
But who turned it into a PvP fest, the developers or the PKing Players?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
All these games had a couple new features but were the same over all experience as preceeding games! People also liked some of the things in your list for some reasons but not for others. I.e. WoW's new Instanced Raiding - Some people liked being free from the guild v guild competition for raid encounters found in EQ yet some missed it. They were still massive guild raid encounters so not much change there. Anything else?
P.S. Instanced raiding is partly to blame for every class looking the exact same at end game (for the most part). This was a large detractor from its appeal for some gamers. Also nothing, besides Thunderfury (maybe ZG trinkets), was even really rare or stood out like really rare loot from older games! For example, I'm pretty sure I could count on one hand the number of players who had completed Plane of Sky quests before Kunarks release in EQ.
"Nothing makes PvP the focus in a sandbox mmo other than the PLAYER(vP) themselves."
I don't think this is true. The developers have made it pretty clear that their game is built upon PvP and will revolve around such - same thing with Mortal. Most of Darkfall's patch notes reflect that. Hey, people that enjoy that, have a blast because I don't expect the developers to change their focus because they seem content with what they have.
Uohaloran is correct in this instance. Darkfall has little else to do besides PvP! Try it for yourself if you think differently.
You and every other UO fan out there... me included.
Are you a complete newb to MMORPGs?
It takes developers to build it in the game, and PKers to run with it. What's your issue here?
Once upon a time....
Um,,, WoW also has PvP. Doens that make it s PvP focused MMORPG?
Really? By your definition, it would be, since the developers have PvP in it.
Right?
now Iam off. Have to call my girlfirend. bye
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
ME TOO!!
Darkfall is a PvP fest for a few reasons, all basically caused by the developers/marketers:
1. Darkfall has full loot and laughable consequences for ganking. This means you stand to gain a lot from killing other players. This, more than anything, makes it a PvP fest.
2. There really isn't much to do beyond PvP. The PvE content in DF is fairly bad. It mainly consists of is fighting MOBs typically out in the open. There are dungeons, but they aren't very exciting. Also, the level of world interactivity and player housing is so much lower than UO that it's not really attractive. Crafting is also a bit of a bear in DF.
3. The game is marketed as being "hardcore, full loot." This attracted a lot of people looking to "gank" other players and immediately soured the community.
4. It takes a ridiculous amount of grinding to get your character anywhere near being remotely effective in PvP. This makes it pretty safe for experienced players to gank lowbies en masse.
You can't blame the players for DF being a PvP fest. Also, just because a game is marketed as a sand box doesn't mean that the players decide how it will turn out. A sandbox game is still a game, and has rules just like a theme park game. If those rules make it conducive to being a gank fest, then that's what it will be.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I think the problem with MO and Darkfall is that they are lawless gank and grief fests.
My theme song.
I guess that answers my question. heh
Once upon a time....
I think he was trying to argue that Darkfall and MO are good successors to UO, so UO fans are just pointelessly whining.
This just simply isn't true. Darkfall and MO are a far cry from UO, and I think many of the points made in this thread illustrate why. If there was a really good successor to UO, I think all of us UO fans would be playing it, or already have burned ourselves out with it and be whining about something else
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Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree. His assessment seems to stem from the perception that UO was solely a PVP game and that the PVP penalties were what people wanted from it. The PvE and social aspects of UO are far more pined for than the PVP. Even when it comes to PVP, what is offered in MO and DF is a mere fraction of what UO has had for 6 or 7 years now.
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There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Let's all go watch the old UO 2 game play/design video and RAGE about how the game was never finished =(!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWumht6AuZo - In case someone missed out.
I was gonna make a Meer
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Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well, first off, the PKs waiting off murder counts as ghosts kept them out of comission for a while. So that wasnt such a bad thing. If they had kept stat loss in, it would have helped even more to keep them down for longer periods of time while they had to retrain their character back up.
As for the theives, I never had much problem with them, mostly because I knew not to stand too close to anyone and to bank while hidden. Anyone else worth their salt knew to do the same as well. Thanks to the whiners who couldnt handle the theives, one of the most ineresting aspects of the game got completely wiped out.
Youre idea to eliminate open PvP is a bad one. Games where there is no PvP opens the door wide for one of the biggest problems in MMORPGs today:
Gold farmers
Because there is no threat to their bot characters, or in the case of asia, their sweatshop workers, they are free to camp one area continuously and farm gold unopposed. When people see these bots, there is nothing they can do to stop them. Call a GM? HA, that never works. You usually end up sitting there for 2 hours until the system finally gives you an automated response saying there is no issue to be dealt with, or that there arent any GMs available to answer your call and your ticket gets closed. Thus, the gold farmer is free to continue to farm then turn around and sell it all. This causes inflation which causes prices to go up which kills the game's economy.
But, with open PvP, when a player sees Mr. Bot or Mr. Sweatshop worker, they are free to attack and kill them. the bot is stuck in a program loop trying to attack things while dead, and the sweatshop worker gets beaten for their incompetance. With open PvP, gold farming gets derailed.
For those who complain about gank squads, form your own and fight back. Play the Role of a peacekeeper and drive off the trouble makers.
Darkfall is an empty shell compared to UO, you just cannot compare them, they are both in an other scale.
Uo was a very rich environement for the players, you could be a theif or someone that caught theives, you could have a pack of wolfs or dragons, you could be a miner. And it was not just about claiming right, you really had some tool ingame to sustain your role. It wasn't those stupid fluff we have now; like in L2, man they made a treasure hunter class, what a joke. A treasure hunter in Uo, you had a full and rich environement for them, you could choose many builds to make one, many way to acheive that. What is a treasure hunter in Darkfall? As i said those game are simply at an other level. Darkfall is an emty shell compared to uo, and a feature list won't help to spot the difference. Its about game design, developer and players; but since you can't change much the players that the rest that is at fault.
Uo was made as a simulation of a living world, go read wikipedia about Uo and you will understand maybe. And even if in wikipedia the designer seam to think that was a lost cause to make it that way, it wasn't. Those concept is what is missing in our mmos today to make them anywhere close to interesting. So if you try to understand that with a list of feature your are going in a dead end, you must talk and see the concept(s) being it to understand it fully i think.
Some good UO songs. http://www.digiphobia.com/ultimasongs/html/songs.html
My theme song.
I actually thought the old SWG was a great attempt at a 3d version of UO. Sure it had a ton of bugs, but so do most games. Too bad they killed it.
Just to burst some bubbles - 2/3rd of Archeage's continents is PvP-free confirmed, and a tremendous amount of housing is available there.
I want a true sequel to UO2, not what garriott was working on, that was an abomination, and I am saying this as a garriott disciple. I want it brought into this century and I still want it to be isometric perspective, because quite frankly there is infinitely more they can do with the gameplay if it is not total 3d.